516 réponses à ce sujet

[Innsmouth Dweller]

@In Exile

interesting, for me the number of "mooks" seems to be random. on potd i had one bear in the cave (one location before gilded vale, don't remember the name), on easy there were three of them.

 

higher level combat doesn't require a specific strategy, that's the beauty of those games - you don't have to cast barrier over and over again for 30 minutes to kill a bunch of NPCs

you can use that AOE paralyse spell and cast Aloth's flame-whatever; you can mind-control them and walk away; you can use a summon as tank and burst dps everyone&everything; you can forget about tanks, make everyone engage one/two hostiles and bring a dedicated healer; you can also sneak past hostile NPCs and still continue the quest (EDIT: and i still consider it limited)

DAO didn't have many options either, but it allowed different approaches (crowd control/burst/tank&spank/healer/pure dps), it didn't force you to a specific strategy and you could always use an ability that you wouldn't use normally but it's perfect for that specific encounter (i miss glyphs).

 

here (DAI) PC classes and hostile NPCs are so painfully balanced and bland, one would wonder why the hell there are classes or different types of mobs anyway; crowd control almost doesn't exist or lasts so little it's almost not worth using (i played rift mage, maybe it looks differently for other classes, dunno).

 

then again, maybe i whine because there isn't any viable glass-cannon mage build 

[Hexoduen]

... maybe i whine because there isn't any viable glass-cannon mage build 

 

For one of my playthroughs I would have liked to make the opposite    A mage who only deals a little damage, but has a ton of mana instead (for healing companions / controlling the battlefield by crippling enemies). But a mage with a ton of mana is not possible in Inquisition since willpower doesn't increase it anymore.

Yet another option went down the drain.

 

"but you don't need more than 100 mana ". I know, that's the problem in a nutshell; Inquisition has been streamlined. I hope to see this design done differently in DA4, a little more options overall, a little more slots on my quickbar, and a fully customizable quickbar

[Rawgrim]

DA:O, all you need is a healer.

 

You need quite a bit more than a healer. The cooldown makes the healer an added bonus, but not a must. Potion spamming seems to be more effective. You still need to make builds for the rest, though. Since in DA:O the enemies have access to the same abilities you do. In DA:I they don't. Makes have a spell or two, warriors have nothing. Basically the game lets you be the "only one that gets to have a gun".

[Rawgrim]

I get that you feel obligated to put these old games on a pedestal, but they're not that great at requiring tactics. Especially POE. I'm currently face rolling it with a cipher using 3 spells up to Caed Nuda: The spark-whatever AOE, the AOE paralyse spell, and that 50+ dmg spell that you have to target on your own NPC to fire it off. If I'm really pushing it I'll have to rely on Aloth to cast his raw dmg base mage AOE. If it gets really hairy then I'll use consecrated ground and whatever that conic flame spell is that mages have. 

 

Higher level combat in POE doesn't require substantially more spells beyond the summons, and that's because POE on hard throws more mooks at you, pretty much like DA2 did in the base game. 

 

As to BG2, the OP sorcerer build is all you need and that's based on a limited selection of OP spells. I'd have to sit down and review BG2 to do an inventory if 8 spells is actually exhaustively all I need, but most encounters don't need much more than that to faceroll. 

 

 

DA:O's power build is the same as DA:I. Let's take a mage. In DA:I it's pump ATK%, pick KE, and then spam fire mine and fade cloak. In DA:O, it's pump MAG, pick BM, cast blood wound, and spam fireball. Then you just bat clean-up with whatever direct damage ability you have left. In both cases, on nightmare. 

 

I haven't beaten POE yet, so I can't comment on it. Just saying that it needs some actual thought during combat. DA:I just has the illusion of that.

 

The Sorcerer is overpowered, yes. But you still need to figure out which of the 200 spells or so he can have, that would serve best. Lets say you play a sorcerer then. How do you deal with dragons? The vital Resist Fear spell is a cleric spell. Without it you are toast.

And what are the 8 spells you keep using, anyway? I found I needed way more than that, really. Identify, Magic Missile, Resist Fear, Cure Light wounds, cure moderate wounds, cure critical wounds, cure serious wounds, Heal, Minor globe of invulnerability, Knock, Acid Arrow (to kill trolls), Lower Resistance, True Sight (very vital when fightng a certain dragon in ToB), Dispel Magic, Stoneskin, Improved Invisibility, Death Fog. Fireball is very useful in some fights. Insect plague. Cure poison.

 

Just using 8 spells in the game seems a low number. Unless you rely on reloading often.

[Iakus]

I get that you feel obligated to put these old games on a pedestal, but they're not that great at requiring tactics. Especially POE. I'm currently face rolling it with a cipher using 3 spells up to Caed Nuda: The spark-whatever AOE, the AOE paralyse spell, and that 50+ dmg spell that you have to target on your own NPC to fire it off. If I'm really pushing it I'll have to rely on Aloth to cast his raw dmg base mage AOE. If it gets really hairy then I'll use consecrated ground and whatever that conic flame spell is that mages have. 

 

Caed Nua is still very early in the game (unless you're referring to the Endless Paths) I mean, that's around the end of Act 1.  

 

 

 

Higher level combat in POE doesn't require substantially more spells beyond the summons, and that's because POE on hard throws more mooks at you, pretty much like DA2 did in the base game.

As to BG2, the OP sorcerer build is all you need and that's based on a limited selection of OP spells. I'd have to sit down and review BG2 to do an inventory if 8 spells is actually exhaustively all I need, but most encounters don't need much more than that to faceroll.

DA:O's power build is the same as DA:I. Let's take a mage. In DA:I it's pump ATK%, pick KE, and then spam fire mine and fade cloak. In DA:O, it's pump MAG, pick BM, cast blood wound, and spam fireball. Then you just bat clean-up with whatever direct damage ability you have left. In both cases, on nightmare.

BG2, especially at the higher levels, had a lot of enemies that were resistant or outright immune to magic.  OR at least certain kinds of magic.  And not even boss fights like the dragons.  Similarly, there were enemies with special attacks that required certain buffs or strategies to overcome.  You are not going to faceroll a pack of drow or mind flayers with eight spells.

[Morroian]

Caed Nua is still very early in the game (unless you're referring to the Endless Paths) I mean, that's around the end of Act 1.  

 

Yes at Caed Nua Aloth only has access to level 1 and 2 spells for me. My character, a cipher, only has access to about 7 abilities.

[VickVeel]

Inquisition was just one big bait and switch.

[AlanC9]

I found I needed way more than that, really. Identify, Magic Missile, Resist Fear, Cure Light wounds, cure moderate wounds, cure critical wounds, cure serious wounds, Heal, Minor globe of invulnerability, Knock, Acid Arrow (to kill trolls), Lower Resistance, True Sight (very vital when fightng a certain dragon in ToB), Dispel Magic, Stoneskin, Improved Invisibility, Death Fog. Fireball is very useful in some fights. Insect plague. Cure poison.

I'm not sure listing the various cure wounds spells separately is a great idea here. Aren't those just an artifact of the spell level system?

[Rawgrim]

I'm not sure listing the various cure wounds spells separately is a great idea here. Aren't those just an artifact of the spell level system?

 

No point in wasting a Heal spell on a Wizard who only has 50 hp is there? Plus you can also cast the cure spells on undead as an offensive spell. Works well against vampires - and you run into a lot of those. Some undead are immune to low level spells too, so...I feel they count.

[Innsmouth Dweller]

I'm not sure listing the various cure wounds spells separately is a great idea here. Aren't those just an artifact of the spell level system?

well, mechanics justifies it - cure light wounds is lower level spell than cure moderate wounds. you use 'moderate' in combat, but spam 'light' after combat. or you don't care and think of it as pointless complexity. there you have it (along with Rawgrim's post) - tactical variety

[Sara Jinstar]

In theory that works because there are strong resistances to certain damage types, but in practice it doesn't amount to very much since the difficulty doesn't really flow from damage types as much as different types of resistances, and even then moreso the issue is the volume of enemies that get thrown at you e.g. on hard. 

 

That said you're right in principle, and part of the reason why POE is a more tactical (as well as more strategic) is that you have a great deal more options to juggle in combat, each of which is actually valuable.

 

In fact I'd say the greatest feature of POE is not in the volume of abilities but rather in the fact that those abilities don't suck. There are classes that are weak and abilities that are OP by comparison, but I can't say that (unlike mages in DA:O) there is just such a narrow range of abilities you should cast that for all practical reasons an 8 ability limit would be good enough. 

 

Exactly that, there is a very huge difference between including lots of skills just to have lots of skills compared to having most, if not all skills and abilities being actually useful in one way or another. Pillars has the latter in spades and being an isometric camera mostly allows for far more tactical feeling combat when  you add it all together. Bioware has moved away from that because their current design leads much perfer action combat to classical CRPG combat.

[deeghetal]

I bought Inquisition a bit late... I was holding off because the initial fan reviews were overwhelmingly negative (naturally places like IGN and PC Gamer gave it high ranks because they're paid to do so) but I was a huge fan of the first two so I eventually went for it once it was on sale. SOOOO glad I didn't pay full price.

 

Up until now I thought I was just missing something and that there was some way to have more than 8 abilities. What's the point of even spending more than 10 levels of experience on a mage character when you're going to have to unlock a bunch of activated abilities that you can't even use to get to the passive ones? It'd be nice to be able to use dispel on fade rifts to cancel out one of the enemies that spawns but NOPE I can't do that because I need the spot for another spell. I mean I guess it's not that big of a deal since combat in this game is just a passing joke to waste time in between cut scenes.

 

As a side note I wonder if the reason EA is hesitant to put their titles on Steam is because it's a lot easier to read people's reviews of the games there...

[In Exile]

EA won't use steam because they won't give a Valve a cut of their revenue, especially DLC.

[X Equestris]

As a side note I wonder if the reason EA is hesitant to put their titles on Steam is because it's a lot easier to read people's reviews of the games there...

No, it's because they had a dispute with Valve a while ago over the cut Valve would get. So they made their own alternative to Steam.

[Domiel Angelus]

Eight slots is a step up from the last two games for consoles. DAO and DA 2 only had six if I remember correctly. At least you're not getting forced to slot your potions within those eight slots as well, which they could have done considering its why you only get four in multi-player. They could have added it to wheels like in DA:O and the ME powers for single player.

 

The main reasoning for the limitation isn't single player content. Its the multi-player content that required a limitation so it was inflicted upon the PC versions to make sure that all across the board there was no defined advantage over another system of play. It would be far easier for a PC player to hot bar everything in the game and free swap between every ability, granting the superiority yet again. Where as console players are bound by the number of buttons on a controller since they don't allow for keyboard support in DA games on them, even if you have the right gear to do it. 

[Deders]

Eight slots is a step up from the last two games for consoles. DAO and DA 2 only had six if I remember correctly. At least you're not getting forced to slot your potions within those eight slots as well, which they could have done considering its why you only get four in multi-player. They could have added it to wheels like in DA:O and the ME powers for single player.

 

The main reasoning for the limitation isn't single player content. Its the multi-player content that required a limitation so it was inflicted upon the PC versions to make sure that all across the board there was no defined advantage over another system of play. It would be far easier for a PC player to hot bar everything in the game and free swap between every ability, granting the superiority yet again. Where as console players are bound by the number of buttons on a controller since they don't allow for keyboard support in DA games on them, even if you have the right gear to do it. 

As much of it is that 6 slots is a travesty, We shouldn't be lowering ourselves to console standards now should we?

Also am I correct in thinking that the multiplayer only allows you 4 spells at a time?  It's easy enough to have different dynamics and abilities in single and multiplayer.

[Rawgrim]

Eight slots is a step up from the last two games for consoles. DAO and DA 2 only had six if I remember correctly. At least you're not getting forced to slot your potions within those eight slots as well, which they could have done considering its why you only get four in multi-player. They could have added it to wheels like in DA:O and the ME powers for single player.

 

The main reasoning for the limitation isn't single player content. Its the multi-player content that required a limitation so it was inflicted upon the PC versions to make sure that all across the board there was no defined advantage over another system of play. It would be far easier for a PC player to hot bar everything in the game and free swap between every ability, granting the superiority yet again. Where as console players are bound by the number of buttons on a controller since they don't allow for keyboard support in DA games on them, even if you have the right gear to do it. 

 

DA:O and DA2 had the radial menus. That is the difference. You character didn't just "forget" all the spells he knows during combat, like in DA:I.

 

The dumbed down combat, the complete lack of choices when making your character, and the fetch quests. That is what messed up this game. The locations. The companions etc were great.

[Domiel Angelus]

As much of it is that 6 slots is a travesty, We shouldn't be lowering ourselves to console standards now should we?

Also am I correct in thinking that the multiplayer only allows you 4 spells at a time?  It's easy enough to have different dynamics and abilities in single and multiplayer.

 

Technically you're not lowering anything since the series was designed with the console in mind, even though the PC version of the earlier games got better toys . Yes, you got that right, Multiplayer allows four slots because your second set of skills is replaced by a spot to carry potions and you don't have an option to replace them for skills. You lose the wheel entirely in multiplayer and your d-pad becomes the usual non-talking multiplayer commands that people love to spam: Come here, retreat, thank you and don't know the last one. 

 

DA:O and DA2 had the radial menus. That is the difference. You character didn't just "forget" all the spells he knows during combat, like in DA:I.

 

The dumbed down combat, the complete lack of choices when making your character, and the fetch quests. That is what messed up this game. The locations. The companions etc were great.

 

I did mention the radial menus of DAO and ME, DAO had individual radial menus and ME 2+3 actually had a radial menu that allowed you access to some of your powers as well as your teammates to easier control your combination effectiveness. ME games had fewer powers to deal with in later games so it was much easier to place your powers and your team's powers on the same radial menu. It also had a weapon swapping radial which would have been awesome for my 2h-Warrior and his golf bag full of weapons. 

 

I don't like the new direction either, for the amount of skills allowed or the inflicted tactical combat instead of my beloved macro/npc scripting that was far better in the first game than the second sadly. 

[Dieb]

In the multiplayer the limitation actually adds to the fun, since all the characters have their unique skill trees, which are themed mashups of the singleplayer trees (even cross class at times). If it weren't there, the characters would lose their purpose; because they all have that one game changer skill that other characters of a similar class don't get.

 

In the singleplayer, I understand why they have an 8-slot quickmap limitation -let's not kid ourselves, this game was designed for consoles, because whether we like it or not, it would be financially hilarious not to- but I don't understand why they removed the ability to directly choose from your pool of skills via the power wheel. It can't be the balancing, because there's more than enough skill spam failsafe combos for each possible party combination to breeze through any encounter as is.

 

In general the death of the power wheel, using it solely for "all attack my target... *sighs* you know the one drill we have", is kind of sad.

[Morroian]

In the singleplayer, I understand why they have an 8-slot quickmap limitation -let's not kid ourselves, this game was designed for consoles, because whether we like it or not, it would be financially hilarious not to- but I don't understand why they removed the ability to directly choose from your pool of skills via the power wheel. It can't be the balancing, because there's more than enough skill spam failsafe combos for each possible party combination to breeze through any encounter as is.

 

Cause of MP, cant have 1 player pausing to pick an ability in MP, all possible abilities need to be available immediately. And they didn't want to or didn't have the resources to build a second UI for SP.

[theycallmecheese]

So you're saying they ruined the SP with an absolutely absurd control limitation -- solely for sake of the multiplayer game which I will never play -- and they have no intention of fixing it?  Cause it needs FIXED.  It is not a feature or an idea or even a design compromise; it is a game-breaking bug.  "Sorry, your abilities will just stop working half way into the campaign.  Enjoy reloading a save before each fight when you see that a certain ability would have been useful but wasnt in your arbitrary limit."  That is just inexcusably bad design.  On what planet does Bioware not have the RESOURCES to make a second UI??

 

Over on reddit someone was trying to make the case that this was somehow a good idea because it 'forces you to think strategically' about what abilities to have slotted.  Which is like saying the bad jumping controls are actually smart design cause it forces you to be more careful.  Maybe if we narrowed the FOV to 12 degrees it would force players to think more strategically about what they were looking at.

 

I have never wanted my money back from a game I put so many hours into already but I kinda do now.  I feel like they wasted my time cause, if I had known about this beforehand, I would have just shook my head and not bought the game.

[Domiel Angelus]

So you're saying they ruined the SP with an absolutely absurd control limitation -- solely for sake of the multiplayer game which I will never play -- and they have no intention of fixing it?  Cause it needs FIXED.  It is not a feature or an idea or even a design compromise; it is a game-breaking bug.  "Sorry, your abilities will just stop working half way into the campaign.  Enjoy reloading a save before each fight when you see that a certain ability would have been useful but wasnt in your arbitrary limit."  That is just inexcusably bad design.  On what planet does Bioware not have the RESOURCES to make a second UI??

 

Over on reddit someone was trying to make the case that this was somehow a good idea because it 'forces you to think strategically' about what abilities to have slotted.  Which is like saying the bad jumping controls are actually smart design cause it forces you to be more careful.  Maybe if we narrowed the FOV to 12 degrees it would force players to think more strategically about what they were looking at.

 

I have never wanted my money back from a game I put so many hours into already but I kinda do now.  I feel like they wasted my time cause, if I had known about this beforehand, I would have just shook my head and not bought the game.

 

 

Considering they had to add a keybinding that allowed people to walk, it may be some time. There's so many issues with the PC version for controls that it makes me kind of happy that I'm on a console. The eight active powers doesn't seem so bad when its all you've gotten, or based on earlier games its more than I got before. 

 

They should have kept the power wheels and macro-controls for AI behaviors, it would have made the game far more user friendly. I'm tired of seeing ranged characters running up to hit people when they have no powers that require 'melee range'. Then again I also have a keyboard that works with my Xbox One and the game doesn't support it at all, so there is that too.

[Maker Be Damned]

I think you should be able to flip threw sets of 4 skills. One button goes foward one goes backword or even just 1 button that goes around in circles. Also you can choose to have as many as you want. You could have 5 sets of 4 skills if you want or just 1 set its your choice.

 

Maybe something like left trigger scrolls left but if you hold it and press right trigger it scrolls right.

[Domiel Angelus]

I think you should be able to flip threw sets of 4 skills. One button goes foward one goes backword or even just 1 button that goes around in circles. Also you can choose to have as many as you want. You could have 5 sets of 4 skills if you want or just 1 set its your choice.

 

Maybe something like left trigger scrolls left but if you hold it and press right trigger it scrolls right.

 

They could have simply used the pressure sensitivity like so many other games did, a soft tap of the bumper could be one and a hard jarring smack for the powers you need in your "wtf" moments. We didn't really need a regular attack button like so many other games, that sort of defeats the purpose of targeting a given person when you still have to spam the button to attack them. 

 

The best multiple use controller scheme I've seen in a game so far is in FFXIV. I can have 8 scroll sets of commands that depend on me holding the left or right trigger and then the corresponding button on the d-pad or the standard buttons. You don't need a dedicated interact/jump button because the second you release the trigger you gain a new set of the buttons for non-combat/specialist uses. 

[Sartoz]

Umm, Pillars of Eternity has multiple weapon slots so characters can swap them out on the fly, and it's way more tactical than DAI...

Yeah! That saved my ass a few times.