516 réponses à ce sujet

[doog37]

Dedicated console player here.

 First off DA:O was/is my favorite game of the modern gaming era (Golden eye 007 for N64 is prob #1 all time). I played DA:O, Awakenings, DA 2 and I am certainly past the midpoint of DA:I.

 

I am frustrated by the 8 slots as much as any PC player, I used and liked the radial menu, I felt they went too action oriented for DA:2 and this reeks of trying to appeal to action game players. Also, anyone who say 8 is enough is playing a warrior for their Inquisitor or maybe is using the KE spam build which is as lame as Vivienne is bitchy.

 

I don't get it, but I can say it is 100% not a console vs. PC thing. There are 3 buttons on the d-pad that are not used they could have easily raised the limit to 14 slots for consoles or just kept the g-darn radial menus.

 

I like a lot of the changes for this edition. The potion limits (and no healing spells), using barriers and guard, the war table, I even dig the specialization quests. But I want to use a combination of up to 12 spells. I would be fine with only 4 hot buttons if I could still use all activated skills. I am considering running without Barrier or Mark of the Rift  once I get me last 2 activated spells and the idea of it all INFURIATES ME.

[doog37]

For one of my playthroughs I would have liked to make the opposite    A mage who only deals a little damage, but has a ton of mana instead (for healing companions / controlling the battlefield by crippling enemies). But a mage with a ton of mana is not possible in Inquisition since willpower doesn't increase it anymore.

Yet another option went down the drain.

 

"but you don't need more than 100 mana ". I know, that's the problem in a nutshell; Inquisition has been streamlined. I hope to see this design done differently in DA4, a little more options overall, a little more slots on my quickbar, and a fully customizable quickbar

Well if you do it right Rift mage + Ice + Spirit does that pretty well. You can have lots of mana (since it regens fast with all of the weakened mobs and winter stillness) not do a lot of damage and use barrier again and again, to prevent instead of heal.

Problem is you wind up wanting at least 1 more skill slot. Pull of the Abyss(+1) + Ice Mine (+1) and Veilstrike(+1) you have some pretty weakened mobs (weakened and no armor) is pretty good crowd control and it doesn't even do much damage.

Or have you tried that and you are upset that mobs die too fast?

[Ariella]

Now, I admit, I may be a throwback or something, but the last time I checked the number of skill/ability slots has absolutely nothing to do with the lore (aka backstory/meta arc) of the game.

 

Now if you were to discuss the removal of healing spells from DA because lore says that healing takes more effort than can be spared during combat (I think it's bogus considering we have a revival spell, which should be MORE difficult during combat and the KE focus ability) then I'd grant, you might have a point about genuflecting a little to much in the direction of lore.

 

Eight slots, however, has nothing to do with the lore of the game.

 

Do some people think it sucks? Yes, but if eight slots is what drops a RPG which is as much or more about story (which you do not need those 8 slots for) than combat, I have to ask why are you playing these kind of games?

[The Baconer]

Do some people think it sucks? Yes, but if eight slots is what drops a RPG which is as much or more about story (which you do not need those 8 slots for) than combat, I have to ask why are you playing these kind of games?

 

Effectively, it really isn't.

[Ariella]

Effectively, it really isn't.

 

Really not about story in general or really not about story for the OP?

[Rawgrim]

Really not about story in general or really not about story for the OP?

 

When nothing surrounding the story makes sense, the story also suffers. Look at it as a painting. If the frame crumbles, the painting falls off the wall\gets damaged or whatever.

[Petiertje]

Uhm, Perhaps it doesn't destroy DA, but it certainly destroys the feeling you have to be tactical in battles. I know it's all about story for some people here, but if I only want a story I read a book, if I want that story to be more visual I watch a movie. And if I want a story to be interactive I play a game. And if there is combat in a game, it's put there for entertaining and challenging purposes. 8 slots in the game (PC here) is NOT making a game challenging, it's making half the ability's in the game useless because I can't use them. I can't bring myself to play the game as much as i want to. ( *takes a look at the loading times between areas* ) The lack of options in battle, especially in the late parts of the game just takes the fun out of it. What's the point of leveling up when I can't have any use out of that? sure, some passives are useful, but to be effective it's just to few options. It feels lazy and in contrast of what was said before launch, makes the game less tactical. I'm still playing DAO, and even occasionally DA2 while DAI is sitting right next to those games on my pc. After a while I know the story, and even I liked it (albeit a bit short in my opinion), after a while i try different angles of the game to keep it fun, and it's on that area that it fails.

(lack of new content is also not helping.)

I know, there are some off topic opinions in here, it's just that it's the total package that amplifies certain (lesser) parts of the game. (like eight slot limit).

 

Sorry for any grammatical errors, English isn't my native language.

[Rawgrim]

Uhm, Perhaps it doesn't destroy DA, but it certainly destroys the feeling you have to be tactical in battles. I know it's all about story for some people here, but if I only want a story I read a book, if I want that story to be more visual I watch a movie. And if I want a story to be interactive I play a game. And if there is combat in a game, it's put there for entertaining and challenging purposes. 8 slots in the game (PC here) is NOT making a game challenging, it's making half the ability's in the game useless because I can't use them. I can't bring myself to play the game as much as i want to. ( *takes a look at the loading times between areas* ) The lack of options in battle, especially in the late parts of the game just takes the fun out of it. What's the point of leveling up when I can't have any use out of that? sure, some passives are useful, but to be effective it's just to few options. It feels lazy and in contrast of what was said before launch, makes the game less tactical. I'm still playing DAO, and even occasionally DA2 while DAI is sitting right next to those games on my pc. After a while I know the story, and even I liked it (albeit a bit short in my opinion), after a while i try different angles of the game to keep it fun, and it's on that area that it fails.

(lack of new content is also not helping.)

I know, there are some off topic opinions in here, it's just that it's the total package that amplifies certain (lesser) parts of the game. (like eight slot limit).

 

Sorry for any grammatical errors, English isn't my native language.

 

It is kind of like removing buttons from your controller, and claiming it is to make the game more difficult.

 

 

And your english is great, by the way.

[The Baconer]

Really not about story in general or really not about story for the OP?

 

As far as gameplay goes, the story is definitely not more prominent than the combat. I wouldn't even say it manages to be as prominent as the combat.

 

This isn't inherently a good or bad thing -- it is an action RPG, after all.

[Ariella]

When nothing surrounding the story makes sense, the story also suffers. Look at it as a painting. If the frame crumbles, the painting falls off the wall\gets damaged or whatever.

 

If we were talking major failures such as quest glitches, egregious spelling errors in text, non functional abilities/skills, save game corruption... then maybe, MAYBE, I'd give you this, but we're not talking about anything that makes the game unplayable. We're talking about a MINOR limitation. So, you have eight slots. Prioritize, just like one had to way back when when you have to memorize spells.

 

You want something much worse than this that was actually LORE related: Return to Krondor. Required you to eat, and your rations could rot or be poisoned, and there were very few vendors and money was scarce, especially at the beginning of the game. This little mechanic killed the entire story. Having only eight buttons does not. 

[Ariella]

As far as gameplay goes, the story is definitely not more prominent than the combat. I wouldn't even say it manages to be as prominent as the combat.

 

This isn't inherently a good or bad thing -- it is an action RPG, after all.

 

Witcher is an Action RPG. Shadows of Mordor is an Action RPG, Dragon Age is not. It's supposed to be the spiritual successor to Baldur's Gate, which by no means is action. It was tactical combat and a damn good story. Bioware makes its name on storytelling. That's their wheelhouse. 

[Rawgrim]

If we were talking major failures such as quest glitches, egregious spelling errors in text, non functional abilities/skills, save game corruption... then maybe, MAYBE, I'd give you this, but we're not talking about anything that makes the game unplayable. We're talking about a MINOR limitation. So, you have eight slots. Prioritize, just like one had to way back when when you have to memorize spells.

 

You want something much worse than this that was actually LORE related: Return to Krondor. Required you to eat, and your rations could rot or be poisoned, and there were very few vendors and money was scarce, especially at the beginning of the game. This little mechanic killed the entire story. Having only eight buttons does not. 

 

Your character not being able to use everything he has learned in combat is not a minor limitation. The spell memorizations in BG1 and 2, for example, was solidly planted in the lore of the game. This isn't.

 

Betrayal at Krondor had that mechanic. Not Return to Krondor. Anyway. the game did win Best Rpg of 93, so it didn't kill the story at all. In fact the game is hailed, to this day, as one of the best stories in an rpg. And the mechanic in the game, that forces you to have food, is not Lore related at all. It is a simple gameplay mechanic, nothing more. People eat in DA as well, you are just not required to actually eat in-game.

[Rawgrim]

Witcher is an Action RPG. Shadows of Mordor is an Action RPG, Dragon Age is not. It's supposed to be the spiritual successor to Baldur's Gate, which by no means is action. It was tactical combat and a damn good story. Bioware makes its name on storytelling. That's their wheelhouse. 

 

Dragon Age Origins was the spiritual successor to BG. DA:I isn't. DA:I is marketed as an action-rpg. Plain and simple. It even says Action-Rpg on the official website for the game. "The new action-rpg from Bioware".

 

So since they themselves call it an action-rpg....your argument is rather mute.

[Heimdall]

"Spiritual Successor to Baldur's Gate" may be the tagline Bioware used to advertise DAO, but the actual similarities between the franchises beyond the fantasy setting and having a party are tenuous at best.

 

DA, especially after Origins, has been edging closer to Action RPG than BG.

 

And I don't have a problem with what they've done so far at all, but I'd definitely call DAI an Action RPG.

[The Baconer]

Witcher is an Action RPG. Shadows of Mordor is an Action RPG, Dragon Age is not. It's supposed to be the spiritual successor to Baldur's Gate, which by no means is action. It was tactical combat and a damn good story. Bioware makes its name on storytelling. That's their wheelhouse. 

 

Nah, it's been ARPG since DAII (again, not that this is inherently a good or bad thing). It's got an even greater focus in DA:I with the transition to sandbox maps and respawning enemies, even if it's not the super-speedy-cocaine-addled button masher that II was.

[Ariella]

Your character not being able to use everything he has learned in combat is not a minor limitation. The spell memorizations in BG1 and 2, for example, was solidly planted in the lore of the game. This isn't.

 

Betrayal at Krondor had that mechanic. Not Return to Krondor. Anyway. the game did win Best Rpg of 93, so it didn't kill the story at all. In fact the game is hailed, to this day, as one of the best stories in an rpg. And the mechanic in the game, that forces you to have food, is not Lore related at all. It is a simple gameplay mechanic, nothing more. People eat in DA as well, you are just not required to actually eat in-game.

 

Bull. You're still limited because you had to memorize. Everything has limits. You don't like them, fine, but claiming they are game breaking is ridiculous.  

 

Betrayal then, I'm tired so I missed the name. And it did kill the game, along with the lousy chess like combat system, and the general dead feeling of the world. The fact that they couldn't even get the looks of the characters or a lot of the actual lore right also plays into it. There was a hell of a lot of tedium in that game. Something they broke from in the next.

 

Yes, it's a mechanic, just like eight slots is a mechanic, though of a different sort. And it was more of a pain in the butt because you were functioning at a detriment during the whole damn game if you did not, or if you ate the wrong kind.

 

Eight slots has nothing to do with Lore. It has nothing to do with the story, it's a rules mechanic nothing more, and not a huge one. There is no story rationale behind this, unlike the removal of healing spells. Again, it is just a mechanic

 

Lore is story related. This is rules mechanic.

[Ariella]

Nah, it's been ARPG since DAII (again, not that this is inherently a good or bad thing). It's got an even greater focus in DA:I with the transition to sandbox maps and respawning enemies, even if it's not the super-speedy-cocaine-addled button masher that II was.

 

For which I am thankful. It may be closer, but still not Witcher or Shadows, which are the defining examples of the subgenre. 

 

 

[Rawgrim]

Bull. You're still limited because you had to memorize. Everything has limits. You don't like them, fine, but claiming they are game breaking is ridiculous.  

 

Betrayal then, I'm tired so I missed the name. And it did kill the game, along with the lousy chess like combat system, and the general dead feeling of the world. The fact that they couldn't even get the looks of the characters or a lot of the actual lore right also plays into it. There was a hell of a lot of tedium in that game. Something they broke from in the next.

 

Yes, it's a mechanic, just like eight slots is a mechanic, though of a different sort. And it was more of a pain in the butt because you were functioning at a detriment during the whole damn game if you did not, or if you ate the wrong kind.

 

Eight slots has nothing to do with Lore. It has nothing to do with the story, it's a rules mechanic nothing more, and not a huge one. There is no story rationale behind this, unlike the removal of healing spells. Again, it is just a mechanic

 

Lore is story related. This is rules mechanic.

 

The difference is that the limitations were in tune with the lore and the setting. The DA:I limitations are not. And they do not add any tactical choices at all, since all you really need is Barrier and button mashing to beat the game. And given that none of the previous DA games had this limitation, it stands out like a sore thumb.

 

If you had trouble through the whole game while playing Krondor, I will gve you a small tip. Right click on the food. If the food is poisoned it says (poisoned) right there in the description. Hint: throw the poisoned food away. Do not eat poisoned food.

 

Yes it has plenty to do with the lore. Because nowhere in the lore does it say that mages are dumb enough to forget spells they have learned, and that they only have the brain capacity to cast 8 spells. Especially since the earlier games told us this was not the case.

[Rawgrim]

For which I am thankful. It may be closer, but still not Witcher or Shadows, which are the defining examples of the subgenre. 

 

Diablo is the shining example of an action rpg. The witcher is far from it. You get plenty non-combat skills in it. And you have thousands of dialogue choices, and dialogues in general. Action-rpgs usually focus everything on combat when you level up (like DA:I does). Your character only improves for combat. Nothing else. Basically it is hardly a character at all. Just a collection of combat moves and his role in said combat.

[Ariella]

Final note

 

If you're able to play through the game with this mechanic, and it does not freeze, block or otherwise make the game unplayable, it's not broken.

 

This is preference and it doesn't destroy the point of the game.

[Rawgrim]

Final note

 

If you're able to play through the game with this mechanic, and it does not freeze, block or otherwise make the game unplayable, it's not broken.

 

This is preference and it doesn't destroy the point of the game.

 

Played through all of it with this mechanic. Button mashed through every fight and it worked like a charm.

 

Broken, the game is not. It plays really well, all things considered.

 

The point of the game is rather unclear when the devs said they were going back to "their roots" with his game, and things like that. The point seem to be, like a Michael Bay movie, to sell as many copies as possible. Stretch the target audience to cover most people.

[TheOgre]

I don't like 8 ability slots at all

 

But I wouldn't say that destroys the entire point of Dragon Age

[Domiel Angelus]

Now, I admit, I may be a throwback or something, but the last time I checked the number of skill/ability slots has absolutely nothing to do with the lore (aka backstory/meta arc) of the game.

 

Now if you were to discuss the removal of healing spells from DA because lore says that healing takes more effort than can be spared during combat (I think it's bogus considering we have a revival spell, which should be MORE difficult during combat and the KE focus ability) then I'd grant, you might have a point about genuflecting a little to much in the direction of lore.

 

Eight slots, however, has nothing to do with the lore of the game.

 

Do some people think it sucks? Yes, but if eight slots is what drops a RPG which is as much or more about story (which you do not need those 8 slots for) than combat, I have to ask why are you playing these kind of games?

 

I blame two characters specifically for the removal of healing magic in DA.

 

Leliana - The 'Maker' expended all of the holy healing possible resurrecting her.

Morrigan - If you're one of those people that stabbed her, she's obviously alive even if you did so she somehow tapped all of the mage's ability to heal and ruined it for everyone. 

 

We don't really have 'true' resurrection, because your characters get back up at the end of a battle if you succeed in completing it. Its more like slapping someone with magic smelling salts or Dorian slapping your soul back into your mouth with a wiffle ball bat.. If we still had real resurrection the 'tragedy' of Haven wouldn't have been very tragic because I would have just wandered around resurrecting people.

 

I do find it odd that every game has a version of the "Wake Up!" spell that only works on the PC and his/her party. I mean in ME the only reason you couldn't medi-gel the Virmire survivor is because there wasn't a body left to patch, where as a game with magic 'resurrection' they can leave certain characters fully intact (Such as Cailan) and still say 'Nope, plot dictates that magic fails here'. 

[mmoblitz]

Now, I admit, I may be a throwback or something, but the last time I checked the number of skill/ability slots has absolutely nothing to do with the lore (aka backstory/meta arc) of the game.

 

Now if you were to discuss the removal of healing spells from DA because lore says that healing takes more effort than can be spared during combat (I think it's bogus considering we have a revival spell, which should be MORE difficult during combat and the KE focus ability) then I'd grant, you might have a point about genuflecting a little to much in the direction of lore.

 

Eight slots, however, has nothing to do with the lore of the game.

 

Do some people think it sucks? Yes, but if eight slots is what drops a RPG which is as much or more about story (which you do not need those 8 slots for) than combat, I have to ask why are you playing these kind of games?

For those using the argument that this game is all about story and the number of slots has nothing to do with it, your correct in that the story aspect has nothing to do with the number of slots.  If you were to completely remove combat from all the DA series games and just leave it as a story where your decisions is what drives the story then how many copies do you think they would have sold?  It would have been a very small niche group who enjoyed it and that is all.  You can think otherwise, but your just fooling yourself.

 

Combat is just as important in this game as story or it wouldn't have been in any of them.  Bioware knows the market is just too small for games that are story driven only.  I think the number of people who play this game for combat and story exceeds those that play it just for story.  I think the main reason they simplified the game was a statement that an EA executive made where he said in an interview that "EA games are to hard".  There were lots of complaints from people in the first DA game that said the tactics where to hard and complicated.  DA2 released with a simplified behavior with the tactical camera removed and that caused an uproar so they patched the tactic/behaviors back in.  That leaves us with this version.  Simplified and clearly designed around consoles.  When a game plays much better using a controller than it does a mouse and Keyboard, then the game was not made with a PC in mind.  I think the game was originally going to be only platform gaming, but they were directed by EA to make it for PC as well (sorry, starting to get off topic).

 

For me, combat is just as important as the story and with this edition of the game they failed at both.  No decision you make matters in the end.  It's a far cry from what they showed us in the Alpha trailers.  Had it been like that I might have given them a pass on the poor PC controls and the 8 slot, loss of healing limitations.

[Rawgrim]

Combat is vital in Dragon Age, since every ability\spell you can pick during level-up is one that can only be used in combat. Non-combat skills = gone. That means the focus is indeed combat.