No way. I'm almost level 23 on my KE, and not being able to use my entire arsenal ****ing sucks.
You can use your entire arsenal - Just not in the same battle. It only takes a little foresight to decide if you need a special mix of 8 spells for a battle.
Not at all, my focuses are in the Knight Enchanter tree (every active except for the focus ability), and Inferno (every ability except flashfire). Beyond that are one-to-two level dips for Barrier, Fade Step, and Energy Barrage. The only spells here that aren't pure DPS are Disruption Field, Fade Step, and Barrier.
You can use your entire arsenal - Just not in the same battle. It only takes a little foresight to decide if you need a special mix of 8 spells for a battle.
It's still incredibly annoying to have to rebuild your hotkeys if you want a different loadout, though.
Even on consoles (which in the previous games only had 6 hotkeys), you were still able to access all of your abilities on the circle menu. That they don't grant us the option of doing that in DAI defies all sense.
Lets not forget that almost all boss mobs and dragons are immune to CC and with dragons, one of the elements. With the exception of KE, that makes most other caster schools worthless in those battles. This is where the 8-slot limit cripples many builds. With trash mods, it's fine, but between the broken spells and immunity to CC, restricting us to 8 slots is hamstringing some classes since your restricted.
My first play through I went K.E. and it was no challenge what so ever. It was boring in fact. The next one (which I never finished) I went without choosing a specialty and just went with an overall type build and it was actually decent to play. It was harder than K. E. and you actually need the rest of your party with you since you won't solo on Nightmare with it, but I found it to work well. Only got it up to level 17 before I stopped. Haven't played DAI since.
You can use your entire arsenal - Just not in the same battle..
Don't.
I'm gonna be devil's advocate here. Barrier on a KE is a bit redundant.
My KE build is Winter's Grasp, Fire Mine, (magic combo there--punny) Immolate, Fade Step, Energy Barrage, Spirit Blade, and Disruption Field. Slot Eight is w/e I want, and sometimes I'll ditch En.Barrage or Disruption Field. Depends what mood I'm in.
I say Barrier is redundant because Spirit Blade builds barrier, so if you're focusing on your KE powers, you're going to have barrier pretty much all the time anyway.
I guess, Eight Slots is going to be more of a hassle for other playstyles (styles that differ a lot from my own). But my DPS, survivability, and just general fun factor have always been optimal, and I'm yet to make a build that is stressing the eight slot limit.
The Barrier isn't for my KE, it's a backup for everyone else on the party.
First off, bump this, 8 slots is not close to beeing enough.
With all things considered, they got really cool looking and acting spells that also work together, this alone is really good but when you got around 20-30 skillpoints you end up with way to many abilities left unused.
The second problem we run in to is the "Must have", i notice someone naming KE as a good example were you can cancel barrier. but to mention a few; atleast 1 heroic ability, all the quick move abilities to get out of fire like fadestep, archer leapingshot, rogue stealth, etc. this ends up beeing less then 8slots due to the almost mandatory ability requirements. (Im not saying you HAVE to take them or use them, all im saying it makes things alot more challengering then it have to be if unless your in to that type of thing, but then you intentionally limit YOURSELF, instead of the game limiting you forcefully)
Then there is the lack of attribute distribution. the place of leveling up where YOU the player get to decide what you want, and what is useful. the game might point you to magic as a mage, or strenght as a warrior but you can chose to ignore it if you want. What I mean is that alot of the passives we get gives you the attributes for simplicity, but instead it should give the options to have a quick level up that sort it out for you or something in those lines - aka simple level system or advanced.
What the game has done well, i think atleast is the combo and synergy abilities have. they add wow factor through looks and through big numbers, efficiency and so on.
So what can DAI learn from this, go back to your roots, this game is very good at the end of the day (after some patching etc.) but still has work to do, like adding more skillslots (atleast twice as many)
offtopic: better AI, better tactical cam (aim to not limit PC because of consol, but rather max out both of them so consols get the best they can get, and PC get the best they can - if they can) and probably more but im sure others will fill you in on that 
You can use your entire arsenal - Just not in the same battle. It only takes a little foresight to decide if you need a special mix of 8 spells for a battle.
then again I'm not personally a fan of how they handled the talent systems in this game. I had to respec 8 times to find out a lot of the passive are either incorrectly worded or simply not working as intended.
Respeccing is another thing than simply shuffling your slots.
I'm hearing rumors that this is never going to be changed in Inquisition, which deeply concerns me.
This absolutely obliterates the gameplay. I'm mortified about this. What made this game great was the variety of spells and abilities that gave you flexibility in battle, but didn't allow you to spam them without a cost because of your Willpower stat.
I want this game to be a 10/10 so badly but this just dropped my rating down by 1.
I totally agree. It doesn't make any sense. Only eight buttons makes it impossible to use all your abilities in a fight. Pretty hard for mages when they have elemental damage, and they fight an enemy with a certain elemental resistance. For example Rage resistant to fire, despair resistant to ice, and Pride resistant to electricity. As far as I can tell, the mage has to rely on knowing beforehand which enemy it will face because they can't change things once the battle starts.
It's still incredibly annoying to have to rebuild your hotkeys if you want a different loadout, though.
Even on consoles (which in the previous games only had 6 hotkeys), you were still able to access all of your abilities on the circle menu. That they don't grant us the option of doing that in DAI defies all sense.
Totally agree with this. I had these games on console and used the wheel over the buttons because everything was there and I was not limited.
You can use your entire arsenal - Just not in the same battle. It only takes a little foresight to decide if you need a special mix of 8 spells for a battle.
It takes knowing who your next enemy will be and what their resistances are. You wouldn't use electricity on a pride demon, immolate on a rage demon or ice on a despair demon. It wouldn't make sense.
So now the player has to know in advance what they are going to randomly encounter.
I'm gonna be devil's advocate here. Barrier on a KE is a bit redundant.
My KE build is Winter's Grasp, Fire Mine, (magic combo there--punny) Immolate, Fade Step, Energy Barrage, Spirit Blade, and Disruption Field. Slot Eight is w/e I want, and sometimes I'll ditch En.Barrage or Disruption Field. Depends what mood I'm in.
I say Barrier is redundant because Spirit Blade builds barrier, so if you're focusing on your KE powers, you're going to have barrier pretty much all the time anyway.
I guess, Eight Slots is going to be more of a hassle for other playstyles (styles that differ a lot from my own). But my DPS, survivability, and just general fun factor have always been optimal, and I'm yet to make a build that is stressing the eight slot limit.
I haven't played KE yet, but I read a post where they said it was recently changed. Spirit blade doesn't provide a bonus against guard anymore.
You need Barrier for your team members. The warrior does the best damage against guard. I also don't think Fire mine is going to help against fire resistant enemies. Highlander Ravager is a armored berserk Fire Dragon. Barrier is need to protect the other members who are better suited to take down that guard.
I haven't played KE yet, but I read a post where they said it was recently changed. Spirit blade doesn't provide a bonus against guard anymore.
You need Barrier for your team members. The warrior does the best damage against guard. I also don't think Fire mine is going to help against fire resistant enemies. Highlander Ravager is a armored berserk Fire Dragon. Barrier is need to protect the other members who are better suited to take down that guard.
Interesting; I’ve not played KE in quite a while, perhaps it has been changed. Nevertheless, I still propose that not having Barrier on your Inquisitor is optimal unless you’re specifically focusing on the Spirit tree. A la Solas.
Fire resistant enemies are why I have Winter’s Grasp.
Also, a point I didn’t touch on earlier is if there were more than eight slots—say, twelve slots—the game’s mana system would need to be rebalanced, else the wait between primary abilities would be very long, making your Inquisitor effectively less effective.
However, if you go ahead and rebalance your party, then you have to go ahead and rebalance the enemy. Their health, numbers, perhaps even damage (viable for you to have multiple barrier casters in a party, who can also specialize in multiple other sorcery). And then Tanks would have all the offensive perks, DPS based rogues would be overly survivable, and so on.
With enough time and enough balancing, sure, anything is possible. I guess I’m just predisposed to embracing the design we get, instead of fruitlessly chasing “what if”—why I quickly become fond of DAII despite the dramatic shift from Origin’s style. This question about active ability count is a question worth asking, I agree. The game could achieve more. But demanding more active abilities because that’s what Origin’s did is the height of ignorance and a particularly unpleasant habit among gamers.
You mean we could have fights like origins where we take on 30 dudes at once and have actual crowd control and tactical options?
Sounds a lot better then embracing the watered down design we got.
You mean we could have fights like origins where we take on 30 dudes at once and have actual crowd control and tactical options?
Sounds a lot better then embracing the watered down design we got.
Interesting; I’ve not played KE in quite a while, perhaps it has been changed. Nevertheless, I still propose that not having Barrier on your Inquisitor is optimal unless you’re specifically focusing on the Spirit tree. A la Solas.
Fire resistant enemies are why I have Winter’s Grasp.
Also, a point I didn’t touch on earlier is if there were more than eight slots—say, twelve slots—the game’s mana system would need to be rebalanced, else the wait between primary abilities would be very long, making your Inquisitor effectively less effective.
However, if you go ahead and rebalance your party, then you have to go ahead and rebalance the enemy. Their health, numbers, perhaps even damage (viable for you to have multiple barrier casters in a party, who can also specialize in multiple other sorcery). And then Tanks would have all the offensive perks, DPS based rogues would be overly survivable, and so on.
With enough time and enough balancing, sure, anything is possible. I guess I’m just predisposed to embracing the design we get, instead of fruitlessly chasing “what if”—why I quickly become fond of DAII despite the dramatic shift from Origin’s style. This question about active ability count is a question worth asking, I agree. The game could achieve more. But demanding more active abilities because that’s what Origin’s did is the height of ignorance and a particularly unpleasant habit among gamers.
The abilities are already given to the player and you already have more than eight. What you don't have is the ability to access them during battle. It doesn't require re-balancing. Now you need to know in advance what enemy you will face. I haven't played KE, and don't plan on it. It seems boring.
A well planned rogue doesn't ever run out of stamina. Looks like it hurt regenerate stamina. I use Full draw, Longshot, and Hidden Blades. All of them are the highest stamina cost. If I leave my character and use another team member, my rogue will also use explosive shot and leaping shot on their own. There is no need to re-balance what my character can do on it's own. So I'm not sure what you are talking about. Bioware already gave the players more than eight abilities to select and ways to keep their stamina up.
As for enemies, there is an enemy located in the Storm Coast who has virtually zero cool down on Barrier and Fire Mines. The enemies are not setup with the same cool downs as the player.
I use my mages to provide barrier to their teammates. That was the intent of barrier unless you are playing solo KE mage. The point of the post is simple:
The player already has abilities they can't access on the fly. This means they need to know what enemies they may encounter before combat starts or they won't be able to make the changes accordingly. Re-balancing is not required for options you already have.
You mean we could have fights like origins where we take on 30 dudes at once and have actual crowd control and tactical options?
Sounds a lot better then embracing the watered down design we got.
True. It took planning and was interesting not just pushing buttons or not having access to all your talents on the fly. Like who wouldn't like to setup a cross class combo as a function of the enemies they encounter. You can't freeze/shatter a despair demon. You can stun it and then rupture it.
Also, a point I didn’t touch on earlier is if there were more than eight slots—say, twelve slots—the game’s mana system would need to be rebalanced, else the wait between primary abilities would be very long, making your Inquisitor effectively less effective.
I don't think so, since stamina/mana as it is doesn't support using all 8 abilities rapid-fire. 12 or 14 slots wouldn't change that. If you cast Barrier, you can't follow up with a Static Cage or a Pull of the Abyss, for example, because our allotted mana can't support even that.
In XCOM: EU, you always have several soldiers of each class, however the game only works because you can only bring a finite amount of each—typically 1 or 2. What I'm talking about here is much the same principle.
That you have every possible ability at your disposal outside of a combat instance doesn’t reflect on what would happen if you were able to use every one of those abilities within the combat instance.
If you had a Knight Enchanter with every mage ability throughout every fight, after a level threshold you’d be able to solo the game with little difficulty. Many encounters can already be soloed.
We’re looking at the team healer scenario again. Healers were removed because it made the game better and more functional in ways not immediately apparent to players only concerned with how they used to play. Now I’ve said it already, I’m not saying eight slots is the most optimal, but you can’t shove thirty ability slots into Inquisition as it is and expect it to not need fundamental rebalancing. That is entirely ignorant of how a game is put together.
You would never use everyone of those abilities. That wouldn't make sense at all. What I'm saying is one size never fits all. I'm not going to shock a pride demon or a spider. That would be pointless. I wouldn't freeze a despair demon. We use options we already have, and plan the fight accordingly.
We’re looking at the team healer scenario again. Healers were removed because it made the game better and more functional in ways not immediately apparent to players only concerned with how they used to play. Now I’ve said it already, I’m not saying eight slots is the most optimal, but you can’t shove thirty ability slots into Inquisition as it is and expect it to not need fundamental rebalancing. That is entirely ignorant of how a game is put together.
Removing healing didn't make the game better, they had a goal to make it better but they didn't succeed. As for rebalancing, sure I think it would require it, its a minor point though.
You mean we could have fights like origins where we take on 30 dudes at once and have actual crowd control and tactical options?
Sounds a lot better then embracing the watered down design we got.
One of my favorite fights Ser Cauthrien in the Rescue of the Queen. Setting up the Glyph of Paralysis/Glyph of Repulsion explosion so much better than button smashing.
One of my favorite fights Ser Cauthrien in the Rescue of the Queen. Setting up the Glyph of Paralysis/Glyph of Repulsion explosion so much better than button smashing.
Don't know if the combos have names or not (play with Floating Text disabled), but an upgraded Static Cage seems to get a lot of special attention from the remaining team. It is only button mashing if the Player chooses to play that way.
Shock and paralyze doesn't work on all enemies. Static Cage can be fun. The point I'm am making is a mage with eight buttons is not a good idea if the player doesn't know exactly what enemy they will meet. Access to all talents should be allowed during combat so the player picks the correct setup for their combo.
Edit: Or target their weakness. For example Behemoth resistant to fire but vulnerable to cold.
Shock and paralyze doesn't work on all enemies. Static Cage can be fun. The point I'm am making is a mage with eight buttons is not a good idea if the player doesn't know exactly what enemy they will meet. Access to all talents should be allowed during combat so the player picks the correct setup for their combo.
Edit: Or target their weakness. For example Behemoth resistant to fire but vulnerable to cold.
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