516 réponses à ce sujet

[Sidney]

How do you feel that the game got better in any way by taking away options during combat and out of it?  Artificial choices due solely to developer decisions are not satisfying.  Am I supposed to role play that my character doesn't remember how to do more than 8 moves?  Is it supposed to be fun to "lose" a skill for every new one I learn?  How does it make any sense that I'd forget how to shield bash just because I learn how to lunge?

 

 

How you you EVER manage to role play that your character has the most important mission in all of history and only takes 3 other people with him when he has 6 other capable competent people to do that job also? Can you handle that as part of this most important mission you have to buy, at top dollar, everything you need to function in the world because we all know in the army we had to buy our own bullets? The fact that you can carry 60 items and those 60 can be 60 suits of full plate mail or 60 sets of earrings, doesn't matter. Artificial choices due to developer decisions all of them. Vancian casting was a big ole' mess of arbitrary game designer decisions. In fact, everything in every game is a arbitrary game designer decision.

 

You shouldn't be losing many skills anyways unless you overlevel - I hit level 23 with an archer/assassin and i think i lost 2 skills and both were after level 20. The system sets boundaries, if you are good at developing your character, and understand the rule set, you understand that speccing into passives if how to build properly and not just getting a crap ton of actives. You always have to understand how the rules allow you to build and level your character - unless you have forgotten that Byzantine system of leveling TES had back in the Morrowind days for example.  Be honest you didn't really use much more than 8 skills and spells anyways. You had a lot more in DAO because you had to buy a bunch of crap you didn't want to get to, say,  mana clash.

[GavrielKay]

How you you EVER manage to role play that your character has the most important mission in all of history and only takes 3 other people with him when he has 6 other capable competent people to do that job also? Can you handle that as part of this most important mission you have to buy, at top dollar, everything you need to function in the world because we all know in the army we had to buy our own bullets? The fact that you can carry 60 items and those 60 can be 60 suits of full plate mail or 60 sets of earrings, doesn't matter.

It's a game.  It's supposed to be fun. 

 

I don't personally find selecting a subset of my skills to have actually available to be fun.  I'm not super keen on the inventory system either, but that hasn't changed much so it's not high on people's minds.  I really don't find the early levels in the game fun where you're constantly going back to a camp to restock on potions and then trying to find where you left off.  I don't find button mashing to be much fun.

 

I have no doubt that other people find these things interesting and fun.  And I'm happy for them.  But, BioWare was crazy enough to run a forum where people could criticize and praise them, and where I think they've made a step backwards in fun value, I am going to say so.

 

I'm fairly sure that EA/BioWare will make enough money off this game to think they made the right choices.  And as a paid customer, I contributed to that.  But I still think it's sad that this game came from the same studio as DA:O which was better in many important ways. 

[Lohdahn]

Been trying really hard to adjust to this shortcoming for a while now and I just hate the concept of un-learning skills purely for something that has to do with interface design and lack of planning. I just hope they find a way to either patch this issue or allow mods of some kind so that we can stop throwing away abilities we worked hard to earn. What is even worse is that the game does not give you any incentive or prepare you in any way by information, on the fact that this will happen.

 

It is not as if it tells you that you should plan on losing abilities and set your tree up in a way that anticipates this so when you finally get that 9th ability, its like "Wait what?, no room?, no toggle option?".

[gay_wardens]

yeah and the people with PS4 are stuck with an unmoddable game

 

but if these PSN connection issues keep happening I'll be trading mine in for a gaming PC rig pretty soon

[Razir-Samus]

I prefer more different play styles, options, abilites, spells, strategy and in-depth tactics.

 

DA:Origins had 4*40 = 160, so with the few 32 in Inquisition (including the removal of many spells etc.) I'm now one disgruntled Dragon Age fan

there's enough people around that really get why we're complaining, so why is it being ignored? this is sad

[Gambit458]

I've just never got why they took the wheel away. If you didn't have them assigned to your hotkeys, you could bring up the menu and select from your abilities there. You could do that in Dragon Age. You could do that in Mass Effect. Now all of a sudden, we can't do that in Inquisition. 

[SamHayter]

The problem with the argument that the limitation was some kind of intentional device the devs planned into the game is the fact the the AIs don't have that limitation. The only characters limited to 8 skills is whichever one you are controlling!

 

I'd like to play as a tank, but at high levels I know I have to map my hotbar with at least 6 defensive skills, thus severely limiting my DPS (due to the lack of offensive abilities in the hotbar), so I don't. Instead, I set all Blackwall's hotbar to all defensive skills and trust the AI to taunt and use his offensive skills appropriately (which he would do a much better job at if I could set his tactics DA:O style). Effectively, that means the AI can be a more versatile tank then I can, which is a huge design flaw imo. 

 

Another place the 8 skill flaw becomes apparent is the use of focus abilities. The devs made a big point of the party not sharing a single focus bar (when it comes to using it), but I find myself mapping only 1 focus ability (2 max) in a party anyways so I don't lose more valuable skill slots. I've never mapped any focus abilities to my Inquisitor since gaining my spec tree, because I'd me a much less effective, most of the time, without that 8th slot when playing in real time. One could say that the advantage given to me by the focus ability (reaver, for example) would make up for any DPS loss by the 8th slot, but I'd rather be great reaver 100% of the time, then be a mediocre reaver that becomes an excellent reaver for 20 second bursts once every 20 minutes.  

 

Lastly, the 8 skill flaw also makes it infeasible for me to play as (in real time) any of my other 3 party members at high levels on the fly, since I leave out all my basic abilities on my AI guys (short cooldown DPS, dodges, taunts, etc.) so that I can map and use all the long cooldown abilities when the situation calls for them.

 

I know there are some cases where I'd find myself ignoring one ability or another (who needs fade cloak AND fade step at the same time?), but I'd like to actively make that decision myself, not be forced to by the ridiculous lack of a battle wheel.

[Rawgrim]

It destroys the whole point of letting the player leveling up his character as well. Why let him pick spells or skills, only to take them away after he has 8 of them?

 

From a roleplaying standpoint it messes up the integrity of the story more than a little. My mage would rather die in a fight than use spell number 9 in his spellbook?

[Razir-Samus]

in this case, less is most definitely not more... you are forced to more aptly choose your 8 abilities, and thus you restrict your character's diversity and adaptability mid-combat

 

is it the fault of consoles? i'm not sure...

[Addai]

8 is not nearly enough for a mage. No reason for this restriction. It makes spells that can only be used in certain situations a drawback to get, which means you've got dead zones in your level ups- I thought that was something they were trying to avoid, making you take useless skills to get to better ones?

[Rawgrim]

What it made me do was play the game on Casual, simply because I wanted combat to be over with as soon as possible.

[Frozendream]

That seems not to be the case, consoles are also limited to 8 skills, but in the previous games you had access to 6 skills + radial menu.

Yeap, exactly!

[Frozendream]

8 is not nearly enough for a mage. No reason for this restriction. It makes spells that can only be used in certain situations a drawback to get, which means you've got dead zones in your level ups- I thought that was something they were trying to avoid, making you take useless skills to get to better ones?

 

The Inventory being locked during battle makes it more imperative that this restriction is removed. If a baddie is resisting your spelsl you're *** out of luck! And running out of potions? The fight is practivally over and you're trampled over by the enemies.

[Iakus]

in this case, less is most definitely not more... you are forced to more aptly choose your 8 abilities, and thus you restrict your character's diversity and adaptability mid-combat

 

 

And if there's one thing RPGs shouldn't be, it's diverse and adaptable

[Jeremiah12LGeek]

If the entire point of Dragon Age was how many power slots we have, I doubt I'd have ever played the game.

[Bioware-Critic]

Probably a design limitation for consoles.  This game is clearly not designed with PC play in mind.  Must have been a last minute decision like what was done with The Sims 4 when they decided on changing it from an online multiplayer game to an offline single player game.  If there is another Dragon Age game I'm betting there wont be a pc version at all.  Not after the heat they are taking for this.

 

Stop deluding yourselves my dear PC-enthusiasts ...

We console players are in mourning because of ALL the many, many, many LIMITATIONS as well.

Nothing from DA Origins, nothing of its complexity, player agency and so on - which was present on consoles - was carried over to Inquisition!

All of this "new" and completely absurd oversimplification in Inquisition is a conscious design choice from Bioware to dumb down the franchise as f*ucking hard as humanly possibly!

Console players are demanding gamers as well. And many of us are gaming on PC since the beginning of time!

 

So, you know ... no need for your ill-educated nonsense here

 

And as WE ALL ARE ONLY TOO PAINSTAKINGLY AWARE OF: Not only the access to skills is lacking!

 

ABSOLUTELY ANYTHING COMBAT RELATED IS LACKING IN EVERY POSSIBLE WAY!

(No matter which platform you use!)

THE NEW INSTALLMENT SEEMS TO BE A DELIBERATE ATTEMPT FROM EA TO MAKE FUN OF THE GAMING COMMUNITY AS A WHOLE!

IT IS A GRAPHICS TEASER OF WHAT COULD HAVE BEEN A GREAT GAME!

[Marah Fayne]

This game is a fanservice to people who are way too obsessed with the lore. People cried way too much about DA2 which was FINE for people like me who enjoy the combat more than anything else. Unfortunately EA has listened a little too much to the fans and completely sacrificed the combat for the sake of expanding on the lore and side quests.

 

My fondest memories of DA will always be the moments I had when you could use as many goddamn abilities as you wanted. 

 

There are plenty of Call of Duty and Gears of War games out there if you like combat..."Too much lore, not enough combat" seems like a pretty misguided complaint for a ROLE PLAYING GAME.

[Lee T]

There are plenty of Call of Duty and Gears of War games out there if you like combat..."Too much lore, not enough combat" seems like a pretty misguided complaint for a ROLE PLAYING GAME.

Remember that the root of RPGs is in skirmish wargames. Many people still play pen & paper RPGs today like a tactical game with story interludes. That's not my cup of tea but I can see their point. RPG characterS skill sets and abilities makes for very interesting tactical play compared to your average squad based shooter, and no RTS capture the skirmish feel like they do.

RPGs have always been games uniting many different kind of gamers favoring different playstyle (character creation enthusiasts, explorers, combat fans, lore addicts, etc...) That's a strenght of the genre.

[actionhero112]

While I don't think you need more than 8, I think it's stupid you're actually limited to 8 abilities. Especially when your companions can use whatever the hell they feel like. 

 

Great, you let the stupid ai have more flexibility in what they can use than the actual player. Bravo those at bioware in control of combat. Bravo.

[Sartoz]

Been trying really hard to adjust to this shortcoming for a while now and I just hate the concept of un-learning skills purely for something that has to do with interface design and lack of planning. I just hope they find a way to either patch this issue or allow mods of some kind so that we can stop throwing away abilities we worked hard to earn. What is even worse is that the game does not give you any incentive or prepare you in any way by information, on the fact that this will happen.

 

It is not as if it tells you that you should plan on losing abilities and set your tree up in a way that anticipates this so when you finally get that 9th ability, its like "Wait what?, no room?, no toggle option?".

About improvements to KB+M controls:

If what the dev seemed to imply in the PC Community Concerns / Patch 2, It's not going to happen or very expensive to do. The JUMP feature is at the root of many-a-problems... or perhaps,  "limitations ",  is a positive way of saying it.

 

In any case, the game was designed first for the console, a sand-box environment. This gives the architect/designer a fixed game platform of known quantities such as CPU power, memory, GPU capabilities and input device. The game then is designed around these limits and the developer must maximize their use. There is little choice, here, because the developer must also get approval from the gaming manufacturer (ie: certification) before getting the go ahead to publish the game on their platform ( read Sony and Microsoft).

 

The PC platform becomes a port of the console design including its input device. The port may be a PC design "by PC gamers for PC gamers"  but is not the same as a re-design to take advantage of the PC input devices. This is unfortunate because KB+M input controls may not work properly (as is the case today) and may require a significant amout of work for proper controls = cost = EA may not go for it. The last bit is based on Quarterly Financial statements by senior EA execs saying they cut costs.

 

I'm hoping that Bioware can provide the necessary MOD tools which will gives us the file structures.... a necessary piece of information that allows us to design our own armours/custumes and perhaps even improve the inventory system.

 

About Healing and Potions and Abilities:

In 2013-2014 Bioware consistently mentioned NO HEALING MAGES and only POTIONS for healing and limited skill sets with only 8 avaialble for the Inquisitor... The game, then, is designed around these limitations and the game code built around it, giving us the skills trees, the dumb down tactics, the anemic AI and everything else PC players complain about.

 

Somehow, I doubt there can be major changes without significant time, effort and resources. So, I ask. What is the value to EA for doing this?

 

EDIT: I forgot to mention another quote from a senior EA exec. paraphrasing .." It's not unsusual for EA to spend 2-3 times more on marketing than on the actual game". This alone tells you their priorities / policies.

[vetlet]

The Inventory being locked during battle makes it more imperative that this restriction is removed. If a baddie is resisting your spelsl you're *** out of luck! And running out of potions? The fight is practivally over and you're trampled over by the enemies.

 

This. Not so much the potions, but in a fight where there are enemies with differing resisitances incoming, you cannot adapt eg. Rift which spew rage demons (ah, I'm prepared, cold is good) along with despair demons (oh **** cold isn't touching them). Of course, you could go in with electric (for example), then be stuffed when a pride demon shows up.

 

Even if no more hotbar slots, being allowed to chage weapons/cast abilities from the menu would be a great help, and make sense.

 

Unless they are assuming you will always go in with two mages of complementary abilities, a tank and a rogue.

 

Also proper tactics: 'Dear Archer, stay at range!' and 'Dear party, stop standing in a pool of fire, and freaking move instead of calling for help when you are dying'

[Exalus]

This game would be almost flawless in my books if we had 12+ ability slots per character, the ability to set advanced tactics and one semi large quest segment added into the inquisitor path questline. 

[Zobert]

Yeah.....32 skills is plenty. 

 

What's plenty in a fantasy?  You could say having one skill is aplenty.  I don't know, this game seems like it traded some of the really cool stuff of Dragon Age for a version of open world.

 

I play Skyrim for a different reason than Dragon Age.  In Skyrim I'm a lone adventurer who crafts and hacks her way through the wilderness never making friends, just getting the job done.  I've always played the Dragon Age games because it's having a laugh in the wilderness with my friends.