74 réponses à ce sujet

[mission555]

LOL.. Really?  That is all you've got to add?  Never say never.

 

My Constitution is already at 16.  It will be 17 as of tonight.  It is only a matter of time before my Constitution is 30 as a baseline on all of my characters.  Warriors need proper gear more than anything else to be effective on Perilous.   Adding health on kill weapons and mods is very important for the warrior classes that can not straight tank or heal themselves.   Same goes for guard on kill/hit weapons.  Gear matters more than anything else if you want to carry on Perilous.

 

I take it that you can carry on Perilous with your Katari?

Carrying on Perilous as far as dealing highest DPS? No ofcourse not. Carrying in as far as not dying too much and providing mega utility through To The Death and Warhorn, yes.

 

BTW look at cunning as well, the stat you want most is ranged damage mitigation.

[xROLLxTIDEx]

Carrying on Perilous as far as dealing highest DPS? No ofcourse not. Carrying in as far as not dying too much and providing mega utility through To The Death and Warhorn, yes.

 

BTW look at cunning as well, the stat you want most is ranged damage mitigation.

 

If I wanted to carry through Perilous by not dying I would take my Dwarf out for a spin.  

 

My short term goals are to have Constitution - 20 for HP/melee damage resistance, Cunning - 15 for Crit%/Ranged Defense and Willpower - 15 for attack/magic defense.  After that I will aim for 30/20/20 and so forth and so on.  I'm currently at 17/12/11.   Increasing my HP will amplify the range/magic defense that cunning/willpower will provide.  But Yes, I do want Cunning for ranged damage resistance.

 

I played just this one game on my lunch break this past hour, just to get my Katari up to 20 and promote him again, which I just did.  I joined as my Pug of randoms were in the health room between zones 1/2.  This was on threatening.  No, we did not clear but I do not think that is my fault... at all.  We wiped on zone 5.  If I can do this on threatening it is only a matter of time before I can do this on Perilous.

 

Not sure how to insert images.  

 

Link - http://s1094.photobu...html?sort=3&o=0

[Vlayde]

If I wanted to carry through Perilous by not dying I would take my Dwarf out for a spin.  

 

My short term goals are to have Constitution - 20 for HP/melee damage resistance, Cunning - 15 for Crit%/Ranged Defense and Willpower - 15 for attack/magic defense.  After that I will aim for 30/20/20 and so forth and so on.  I'm currently at 17/12/11.   Increasing my HP will amplify the range/magic defense that cunning/willpower will provide.  But Yes, I do want Cunning for ranged damage resistance.

 

I played just this one game on my lunch break this past hour, just to get my Katari up to 20 and promote him again, which I just did.  I joined as my Pug of randoms were in the health room between zones 1/2.  This was on threatening.  No, we did not clear but I do not think that is my fault... at all.  We wiped on zone 5.  If I can do this on threatening it is only a matter of time before I can do this on Perilous.

 

Not sure how to insert images.  

 

Link - http://s1094.photobu...html?sort=3&o=0

 

Any class can carry on threatening, especially at lvl 20. 

 

Katari does some of the lowest amount of damage while having terrible survivability. His damage output is not worth bringing into Perilous over any other class. Trying to use To The Death to build up guard will also result in a quick death unless you run and hide, which means you're not doing any damage. And even if you do manage to get a full guard meter before every pull, 1-2 attacks will erase it completely.

 

He needs a major buff.

[Geth Supremacy]

The fact that we have to BEG  each other to play warrior when we do perilous tells me everything I need to know.  We've actually stopped bringing them for the most part at this point.  They're so bad we will miss warrior doors.  We have won perilous with warriors on the team, but other classes are far more useful and better. 

 

The way the gameplay was made for this game and how the warrior class is as a whole...someone dropped the ball.  You can't tell me any different.  CAN you bring a warrior into perilous and win? yes.  Is that spot wasted and another class in that spot would be 5 times better? yes.

 

The legionaire is very good for a "warrior".  The reaver can do some damage.  The templar has a few good skills.  The katari is a Qunari!!!!

 

they all fail at the higher tiers of the game, especially compared to what other classes have to offer.

 

FYI I am the type of gamer that I almost ALWAYS played warrior in RPGs....sometimes rogue.

[xROLLxTIDEx]

You all do realize that this game is very gear dependent, right?

 

Do you also realize that just within the game that the warrior class is more gear dependent than rogues and mages?  Rogues and Mages have the luxury of ranged attacks and can kite enemies and wear them down.  Warriors do not get the luxury.  They have to get into the fray, battle and they will get hit.  If the warrior doesn't have good enough gear, he can't kite and run away and be effective.  The game has been out 2 weeks.  How good is your gear, really?  I've played the hell out of this game for the past 2 weeks (174 rating) and I only have 5 pieces that I would consider "end game" pieces.. currently prior to any DLC.

 

I have:

level 23 unique shield of the emperor (best item I have)

level 20 unique superb amulet of stamina (+50 stamina warriors/rogues only)

level 20 unique superb amuulet of cooldown (+15% cooldown reduction)

level 20 unique belt of bleeding (10% bleeding on being hit)

level 10 rare ring of counterstrike (30% duration boost to Counterstrike)

 

^^ That isn't much of anything at all.  I don't have any heal on kill items, not even a ring.

 

I want (really badly):

level 23 unique greatsword (~330 DPS; +42 strength; chance to cast pull of the abyss)

level 23 unique 1-hand sword Caliban (heal on kill)

unique ring of heal on kill (if greater than 2% then it completely negates a dragon rage attack if the DR is a one shot kill - without rampage active; 4%-2hits, etc)

level 10 ring of Dragon Rage (+30% damage boost to Dragon Rage)

level 10 ring of Rampage (+30% duration boost to Rampage)

unique HP boost item

 

^^ Those are just a few items that would make a HUGE difference for warriors going from threatening to Perilous.  I don't know anyone who has the lvl 10 rings of Dragon Rage and Rampage, but since I have quite a few of level 10 skill boost rings (all 30%) I assume that Dragon Rage an Rampage have their own ring as well. 

 

At what point when good gear is acquired and stats are boosted through promotions do you think the warrior class will catch up to and surpass the rogues/mages? Or do you think it will never happen unless the warriors are across the board buffed?

 

I believe once the warrior can get some promotions under him (build up HP and resistances to melee/range/magic) and with proper gear that the warrior will no longer be squishy in Perilous and that will be the point at which the warriors will outshine rogues/mages.  It is going to take a bit longer than 2 weeks.  It is ok if we don't agree.

[TheThirdRace]

The fact that we have to BEG  each other to play warrior when we do perilous tells me everything I need to know.  We've actually stopped bringing them for the most part at this point.  They're so bad we will miss warrior doors.  We have won perilous with warriors on the team, but other classes are far more useful and better. 

 

The way the gameplay was made for this game and how the warrior class is as a whole...someone dropped the ball.  You can't tell me any different.  CAN you bring a warrior into perilous and win? yes.  Is that spot wasted and another class in that spot would be 5 times better? yes.

 

The legionaire is very good for a "warrior".  The reaver can do some damage.  The templar has a few good skills.  The katari is a Qunari!!!!

 

they all fail at the higher tiers of the game, especially compared to what other classes have to offer.

 

FYI I am the type of gamer that I ALWAYS played warrior in RPGs....sometimes rogue.

 

You're absolutely right. Playing a warrior is the most boring class in this game. Their job is to stand there with their shield up and do nothing else... As for Reaver and Katari, their job is to hide to avoid dying on Perilous. They're that bad.

 

On Perilous, it's faster to clear a map with anything but warriors. Their score is usually dead last by a 50% margin. Sure they block a lot of damage but they also cost your team a lot of DPS. 4 mages will rofl stomp the areas faster than anything else except maybe 4 archers. Warriors have absolutely nothing to offer except taking aggro but even then most of the time they're being ignored by the enemies.

 

Don't get me wrong, an excellent Legionnaire or Templar will be very useful, but we'd still get better results with something else.

[TheThirdRace]

I believe once the warrior can get some promotions under him (build up HP and resistances to melee/range/magic) and with proper gear that the warrior will no longer be squishy in Perilous and that will be the point at which the warriors will outshine rogues/mages.  It is going to take a bit longer than 2 weeks.  It is ok if we don't agree.

 

The problem isn't that Warriors aren't useful, it's that by the time they're getting in range the enemies are already dead. They have no reach, they don't get all the aggro and they don't do much damage compared to other classes. They're useful to soak up damage, but then again you don't need that if you kill your enemies fast enough.

 

It was the same on Platinum in ME3. It was perfectly possible to play with cover and use big tactics and strategy to wear down your enemies. Or you could just use whatever deals the most damage, run in a tight group of 4 and completely anihilate everything in less than 18 minutes without dying. The problem isn't that we couldn't play the defense aspect, it was just faster and safer to go all out offense.

 

The same can be applied to DA MP. It's faster and safer to go all out offense than to use a tank. So even if you get all the gear and promotions you want, warrior will still be behind the curve because they're not fast enough.

[veramis]

At what point when good gear is acquired and stats are boosted through promotions do you think the warrior class will catch up to and surpass the rogues/mages? Or do you think it will never happen unless the warriors are across the board buffed?

 

This game, like many games, makes AoE DPS and control more useful as difficulty increases because difficulty consists of increasing the number of enemies. Buffing warriors could work, but I think it would be much better just to create dungeons with enemies that are better dealt with by warriors/rogues than by mages, such as CC immune and high magic resistance enemies.

[xROLLxTIDEx]

So you are saying the problem with Warriors is that they do not do enough damage?  <- is directly related to gear.

 

Legionnaire is a tank and isn't meant to do damage.  He is meant to take damage.  Even still - Payback strike is AoE, Shield Bash is AoE

 

Templer - Wrath of Heavens > Dispel = AoE attack

 

Katari - Mighty Blow is AoE, Earthshaking Strike is AoE, Whirlwind is AoE. basic attack is AoE

 

Reaver - DPS machine and will become a mainstay of speed runs.  Dragon Rage is AoE, basic attack is AoE.

 

The current problem with warriors on Perilous (minus Legionnaire) is that HP and melee/range/magic damage resistances are not high enough to allow warriors to get in range, safely and consistently.  

[Myala]

Sure, the best combo in the game and a ability that gives everyone 35% damage is useless.

[golyoscsapagy]

The current problem with warriors on Perilous (minus Legionnaire) is that HP and melee/range/magic damage resistances are not high enough to allow warriors to get in range, safely and consistently.  

I think this will change a lot with time - just as silver got the new bronze in ME3 after a time. What would greatly help though is fixing aggro ranges, so just because the rng wasn't with you pulling the first blob of mobs doesn't pull the whole level.

I also run a lot with my friend who really loves playing lego (and I usually play reaver). We can work together now (using voicechat certanly helps), so I usually arrive about 1s later than he. I'm pretty sure I'm not especially (or at all) talented at this game - give it some time, people will get better.

 

Sure, the best combo in the game and a ability that gives everyone 35% damage is useless.

Shhhh, let them think that throwing around 500 damage ablities every 8s is the best dps possible in the game. Just like the guy who posted that he was able to solo threatening level 5 with a lvl20 elementalist - in 10 minutes lol...

[Mindtraveller]

Katari reminds me a lot about arms warrior pvp in WoW. They require good gear and great knowledge/skill, but can be extremely powerful. 

 

The amount of facepalm in this thread saddens me.. "warriors have no aoe dmg", "legionnaire is more useful".

 

After playing for 80 hours and mastering perilous, I can safely say that legionnaire is the most useless class. All of the other classes are balanced in their own ways(except AW). A true tank is just not needed because of the way this multiplayer currently works. Raw AoE dmg and CC (which the katari for example is great at) are just too powerful. Hopefully tanks will become useful once they add new difficulties/maps.

 

I'll also withdraw my statement about kataris needing barriers now that I've focused on playing him for a couple days.

 

Conclusion. No, two-handed warriors dont suck, it's a l2p or get good gear issue.

[veramis]

So you are saying the problem with Warriors is that they do not do enough damage?  <- is directly related to gear.

 

 

I'm saying that mages are more useful because they are more useful. I am saying that warriors are less useful because they are less useful. If warriors could cast heal on teammates or could fly, they would be more useful. I am not saying that "more damage" is the only solution to warriors. In fact I would prefer that there be no damage buffs, only nerfs, because it is already too easy to do perilous for people who know the best strategies. Most of those strategies of course involve no warriors.

 

Legionnaire is a tank and isn't meant to do damage.  He is meant to take damage.  Even still - Payback strike is AoE, Shield Bash is AoE

 

 

Sadly the best way to make enemies do less damage is to kill them. This has been a big issue that many games don't really solve. REAL AoE, like the mages have in this game, is usually king at end game in most games with warrior/rogue/wizard, and it is little different here. Legionnaire is decent in routine, not so good in threatening, and... he's a funny rollypolly in perilous.

 

Templer - Wrath of Heavens > Dispel = AoE attack

 

 

It's decent, but very long cooldown and not so large radius

 

Katari - Mighty Blow is AoE, Earthshaking Strike is AoE, Whirlwind is AoE. basic attack is AoE

 

 

Small AoE. Whirlwind sucks. Basic attack in threatening and perilous? Hahahaha...

 

Reaver - DPS machine and will become a mainstay of speed runs.  Dragon Rage is AoE, basic attack is AoE.

 

 

Reaver is good, but it is much riskier than ranged classes.

 

The current problem with warriors on Perilous (minus Legionnaire) is that HP and melee/range/magic damage resistances are not high enough to allow warriors to get in range, safely and consistently.  

 

 

Even if a warrior had as much survivability as a ranged character casting spells or plinking away at melee enemies 20 feet away, would they be able to do as much dps as a no target cap barrier-buffed immolation? I still think the main issue is that AoE is king in this game. There are many ways to go about fixing the issue,

 

Sure, the best combo in the game and a ability that gives everyone 35% damage is useless.

 

Templar combo is pretty good, but it's not perfect, long cooldown, small aoe, and doesn't work on CC immune enemies. The 15% damage reduction and 35% damage horn is not that great because it has short duration, long cooldown, long animation time, and makes you have to remove either blessed blades or shield wall. I don't want to remove BB because it is good for spamming more combo, and I don't want to remove shield wall because I like not dying.

 

 

 

Shhhh, let them think that throwing around 500 damage ablities every 8s is the best dps possible in the game. Just like the guy who posted that he was able to solo threatening level 5 with a lvl20 elementalist - in 10 minutes lol...

 

Immolate with barrier buff can be well over 2k AoE damage per cast. Have fun lying to yourself and everyone on the forum.

 

 

 

 

Conclusion. No, two-handed warriors dont suck, it's a l2p or get good gear issue.

 

2Hander is harder to play than just staying back with the team, sharing barriers, and nuking everything while enemies try to run to you. It might be possible to play 2hander decently in perilous, but the question is, why would you want to do it? You might do it for chests or for fun, but I doubt you'd do it because you thought that it was better than mages.

[xROLLxTIDEx]

I'm saying that mages are more useful because they are more useful. I am saying that warriors are less useful because they are less useful. If warriors could cast heal on teammates or could fly, they would be more useful. I am not saying that "more damage" is the only solution to warriors. In fact I would prefer that there be no damage buffs, only nerfs, because it is already too easy to do perilous for people who know the best strategies. Most of those strategies of course involve no warriors.

 

I would be willing to bet that as time goes on and within the next few months (barring any unforseen buffs/nerfs) that Reavers will clear Perilous much, much faster than elementalists. 

 

The best current strategies may be to nuke and kite but this will eventually be replaced by running straight through the enemies as promotions stack up and gear is accumulated.  2 weeks into ME mp it was far far easier to clear the maps with teams of adepts and not weapon based classes.  As people gained access to better gear, the weapon classes began to shine. 

[Myala]

I find templar best hanging back with mages and spamming Horn of Valor and the hitting Woh/Dispell combo, or usually just the woh to stun, if any make it to them. This has gotten me through many perilous pugs. I don't get the XP I used to by charging but it is much better than wiping and not clearing.

Templar tip. Don't feel the need to always use the combo. Many times if you just stun them they can easily be killed with standard attacks or by teamates with the long stun time from the upgrade. Save the stamina for other abilities.

[xROLLxTIDEx]

For the people who say warriors, 2-handed warriors are useless...

 

In 6 weeks, when I have hit 40 promotions (already have 10, 5/week rate) and my baseline stats are:

 

Constitution = 10(starting) + 20(promotions,+100 Hp, +10% melee damage reduction)

Willpower = 10(starting) + 10(promotions; +5% attack, +5% magic damage reduction)

Cunning = 10(starting) + 10(promotions; +5% critical chance. +5% ranged damage reduction)

 

And I equip my reaver with

 

Level 23 unique Sulevin Blade (281 AoE damage. +11% armor penetration, +42 strength, chance to cast pull of abyss on hit)

Level 20 unique superb cooldown amulet (+15% cooldown reduction)

Level 20 unique superb belt of health (+200 Hp)

Level 20 unique superb ring (+10% health on kill)

level 10 rare ring of Dragon Rage (Dragon Rage damage +30%)

 

And I am then able to sprint through perilous consistently getting 10+ kill streaks, do not get on here and cry to Bioware to nerf the Reaver.

 

I'm out of this thread. Peace.

[golyoscsapagy]

Immolate with barrier buff can be well over 2k AoE damage per cast. Have fun lying to yourself and everyone on the forum.

1) Maybe on a crit. Otherwise you have extremely hard time even breaking 1,5k with a really good staff. If you start posting pics to me with 100+ base damage staffs I will stand corrected. Elseway nope, 1k with average staffs, 1,5k with great ones, maybe 2k with the best staffs, and on crits.

2) I didn't say immolate btw, but as per above. You will be able to cast one of those high-damaging immolates about every 15s or so.

3) And in the video I'm talking about the guy actually hits for ~500.

[Robbiesan]

After reading up on Reaver builds I finally unlocked dragon rage and rampage. Wow!! Powerful. It totally helps that rng gifted me with a 347dps great sword.

That said, it certainly helps to be teamed up barrier casting mages at least for for threatening and perilous.

[veramis]

1) Maybe on a crit. Otherwise you have extremely hard time even breaking 1,5k with a really good staff. If you start posting pics to me with 100+ base damage staffs I will stand corrected. Elseway nope, 1k with average staffs, 1,5k with great ones, maybe 2k with the best staffs, and on crits.

2) I didn't say immolate btw, but as per above. You will be able to cast one of those high-damaging immolates about every 15s or so.

3) And in the video I'm talking about the guy actually hits for ~500.

 

rare level 22 Mindchill staff, 67+25 superb dmg, or 92 total weapon damage.

368 initial damage

552 DoT over 8 seconds

800ish damage from barrier buff

5% more damage for every 10% missing mana passive

attack%

 

Easily 2000, and with crit and crit damage would be much higher. And your "every 15 seconds to cast immolate" is what someone who doesn't know how to play elementalist would say. A properly played elementalist would be spamming the crap out of either immolate or firestorm significantly faster than the cooldown number you see in the ability tree because he has so many cooldown passives to do so. For every templar combo you would very likely see 3-4 immolates.

[golyoscsapagy]

rare level 22 Mindchill staff, 67+25 superb dmg, or 92 total weapon damage.

368 initial damage

552 DoT over 8 seconds

800ish damage from barrier buff

5% more damage for every 10% missing mana passive

attack%

 

Easily 2000, and with crit and crit damage would be much higher. And your "every 15 seconds to cast immolate" is what someone who doesn't know how to play elementalist would say. A properly played elementalist would be spamming the crap out of either immolate or firestorm significantly faster than the cooldown number you see in the ability tree because he has so many cooldown passives to do so. For every templar combo you would very likely see 3-4 immolates.

Unlikely. Front number gets crit only, DoT has a separate roll for every tick (also I think rune won't help your immolate too much, but I haven't tested that yet, but would be quite illogical). Anyhow your front number is barely 1,5k even on a crit - which is about an attack of a reaver. That's not really good. Attack% only helps your autoattack btw, if you have it on a staff upgrade I suggest you change it to +stat or +flanking damage.

 

If you would learn to read whole sentences, that would be awesome. I said you will cast a high-damage immolate in every 15s. Rest of the time we are looking at 400-ish front numbers on immolate. For every high-damage immolate you also have to sit out the whole CD as you can't set up flashfire for it. Likewise since you will want to use flashfire to reset meteor normally during a run that will never get barrier bonus.

 

And that's why I said reavers clear faster. They do 1,5k+ hits with dragon rage and if you care to cast a warhorn you will autocrit as well.

 

Elementalist is good dps - for a support class. But when talking about dps the real dps classes are a whole different league.

[veramis]

Unlikely. Front number gets crit only, DoT has a separate roll for every tick (also I think rune won't help your immolate too much, but I haven't tested that yet, but would be quite illogical). Anyhow your front number is barely 1,5k even on a crit - which is about an attack of a reaver. That's not really good. Attack% only helps your autoattack btw, if you have it on a staff upgrade I suggest you change it to +stat or +flanking damage.

 

If you would learn to read whole sentences, that would be awesome. I said you will cast a high-damage immolate in every 15s. Rest of the time we are looking at 400-ish front numbers on immolate. For every high-damage immolate you also have to sit out the whole CD as you can't set up flashfire for it. Likewise since you will want to use flashfire to reset meteor normally during a run that will never get barrier bonus.

 

And that's why I said reavers clear faster. They do 1,5k+ hits with dragon rage and if you care to cast a warhorn you will autocrit as well.

 

Elementalist is good dps - for a support class. But when talking about dps the real dps classes are a whole different league.

 

Rune and attack% do affect abilities, not just basic attack, dum dum. Very often an immolate will hit for well over 2k much faster than once every 15 seconds, especially if you are playing right by constantly spamming abilities for 1s cooldown, spamming basic attack for 0.5s cooldown, standing still for mana regen and cooldown reduction, and using up most of your mana to get damage % increase for low mana. And it's not flashfire. Instead of telling me to learn to read, you should learn how to stop pulling sh*t out of your ass.

 

Reavers do not clear faster in perilous than good mages and archers. If you didn't know, there's a lot of mobs in perilous, and when there's a lot of mobs, AoE>single-target DPS. A perilous group that knows what it is doing would kill most of the mobs before a reaver could even reach the enemies to screw up enemy blobbing, and if they don't want to open warrior doors they would pick an archer over a reaver for single-target DPS.

[TristynTrine]

Idk I like my Katari, pretty fun and the 2h wep parry is pretty fun to help get up guard lol

[RaveHard513]

ohk... so after grinding with the katari and promoting him once... i can honestly say he is heap of fun haha!

 

But i guess finding a lvl 22 Rare kinda helps too...

 

took me a while to figure out a combo that i liked but now i'm a transformer! one minuet im a Train (CHOO CHOO) then im a Helicopter! AND THENNNNN not much is left alive  

[golyoscsapagy]

Rune and attack% do affect abilities, not just basic attack, dum dum. Very often an immolate will hit for well over 2k much faster than once every 15 seconds, especially if you are playing right by constantly spamming abilities for 1s cooldown, spamming basic attack for 0.5s cooldown, standing still for mana regen and cooldown reduction, and using up most of your mana to get damage % increase for low mana. And it's not flashfire. Instead of telling me to learn to read, you should learn how to stop pulling sh*t out of your ass.

 

Reavers do not clear faster in perilous than good mages and archers. If you didn't know, there's a lot of mobs in perilous, and when there's a lot of mobs, AoE>single-target DPS. A perilous group that knows what it is doing would kill most of the mobs before a reaver could even reach the enemies to screw up enemy blobbing, and if they don't want to open warrior doors they would pick an archer over a reaver for single-target DPS.

I'll doublecheck it. I didn't see any higher damage rolls when I used a +10% attack weapon compared to a normal one.

 

No matter how much you want it, standing still won't help your CDs, sorry. About the rest - if you 'spam skills' for 1s CD, you won't 'spam attacks' for 0,5s CD. Common sense really - what you lack.

 

I also suggest you at least try reaver once - you know not to sound like a total idiot. What do you think dragon rage does dunce? Reaver single target DPS, grats, joke of the year.

[I MajorAssman I]

 

It is really quite simple

 

War Horn > Rampage > Dragon Rage > Devour

It is that simple, in the past my reaver would collect 40 to 50 kills on threatning. Last night once my reaver hit 18 maxed out dragon rage and used it as my auto attack along with my war horn ring 149 kills in my first game. What a monster.