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Why are there no orientals in Mass Effect 1 and 2?


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#126
fortunesque

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Railstay wrote...

JudgeQwerty wrote...

verskk wrote...

JudgeQwerty wrote...

Kaidan Alenko, anyone?


I always though Kaidan was Latino. Or at least one of non-race (i.e. the races all being fused into one, similar to Anderson if i'm not mistaken)


Kaiden is Japanese, Alenko is Australian, a pretty common pairing in the Pacific. Another accent flub a la Anderson of London.


Uhh..  Kaiden is not Japanese.  Perhaps you were confused because it sounded Japanese to you and you didn't bother to verify.  It's actually an Arabic name and it means "companion".  I know this because my friend's nephew has the name.

Also, a lot of people chiming in on whether oriental is considered racist or not don't seem to be Asian.  I am Asian, so let me shed some light on the matter.  Oriental is not necessarily racist in the same way that calling someone ****** is not necessarily racist, but if you were a black dude and an older white man called you ******, you'd still feel weird.  It's just not the preferred term.


But it's spelled Kaidan in the game and on the site.

#127
merikano

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Firstly it's Kaidan, not Kaiden. If you plan on trying to argue the origin of a name you better learn how to spell it correctly first.

#128
JoKeR1147

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Not to ****** anyone off.................... ( Im asian myself so plz unless your asian dont talk ) But Salarians are very similar to asians. They have flat faces with longs stretched eyes. Also for some reason the way they talk instantly reminded me of many people i know and the way i hear people talk here in flushing NY.  (its basicly china town) Not to mention most salarians are nerds who are scientist, I mean you can even look at mordin and hes suposed to be a BAMF salarian.

#129
Railstay

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Sirwootalot67 wrote...

...You do know that Kaidan's malaysian, right?


And Captain Anderson is British, but he has no discernable British accent.

One thing Mass Effect did very well was reflect the future of human society.  Race, culture and nationality have nothing to do with one another.  In America it would be considered dumb if you saw a black guy walking down the street and assume he was born and raised in Africa and spoke in broken English.  Why is it so outlandish then to assume that race =\\\\= nationality?  Captain Anderson is black and he speaks with an American accent, but apparently he was born and raised in Britain.

Just because Kaidan was born in Malaysia or Singapore or wherever doesn't suggest anything about his race.  In fact I think the game designers intentionally kept it very vague.  The same goes for Ash.  She and Shepard both talked about going to the Macapa Boot Camp in Brazil, but they have no Brazilian accents to speak of, and Shepard can be any race.

Modifié par Railstay, 26 janvier 2010 - 04:27 .


#130
implodinggoat

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Railstay wrote...

Also, a lot of people chiming in on whether oriental is considered racist or not don't seem to be Asian.  I am Asian, so let me shed some light on the matter.  Oriental is not necessarily racist in the same way that calling someone ****** is not necessarily racist, but if you were a black dude and an older white man called you ******, you'd still feel weird.  It's just not the preferred term.


I concur.  What terms end up being considered offensive is more of a cultural phenomenon anyway.  For example the only word in the German language which refers to black people is "******".  Besides I tend to think all this PC garbage is bull**** anyway.  Why would you be insulted by a term which refers to your race unless it is intentionally offensive?  I can think of no reason to take such offense unless one is somehow ashamed of their ancestory.  No man should take shame in his ancestory......unless, he's French.;)

Modifié par implodinggoat, 26 janvier 2010 - 04:21 .


#131
fortunesque

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Railstay wrote...

Sirwootalot67 wrote...

...You do know that Kaidan's malaysian, right?


And Captain Anderson is British, but he has no discernable British accent.

One thing Mass Effect did very well was reflect the future of human society.  Race, culture and nationality have nothing to do with one another.  In America it would be considered dumb if you saw a black guy walking down the street and assume he was born and raised in African and spoke in broken English.  Why is it so outlandish then to assume that race =\\\\= nationality?  Captain Anderson is black and he speaks with an American accent, but apparently he was born and raised in Britain.

Just because Kaidan was born in Malaysia or Singapore or wherever doesn't suggest anything about his race.  In fact I think the game designers intentionally kept it very vague.  The same goes for Ash.  She and Shepard both talked about going to the Macapa Boot Camp in Brazil, but they have no Brazilian accents to speak of, and Shepard can be any race.


^This^

Kaidan is a genetic mystery. He looks like he's got a bit of everything, and his name is from all over the place. Thank God they didn't provide his middle name. It's probably distinctly Irish or something.

#132
Railstay

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fortunesque wrote...

Railstay wrote...

JudgeQwerty wrote...

verskk wrote...

JudgeQwerty wrote...

Kaidan Alenko, anyone?


I always though Kaidan was Latino. Or at least one of non-race (i.e. the races all being fused into one, similar to Anderson if i'm not mistaken)


Kaiden is Japanese, Alenko is Australian, a pretty common pairing in the Pacific. Another accent flub a la Anderson of London.


Uhh..  Kaiden is not Japanese.  Perhaps you were confused because it sounded Japanese to you and you didn't bother to verify.  It's actually an Arabic name and it means "companion".  I know this because my friend's nephew has the name.

Also, a lot of people chiming in on whether oriental is considered racist or not don't seem to be Asian.  I am Asian, so let me shed some light on the matter.  Oriental is not necessarily racist in the same way that calling someone ****** is not necessarily racist, but if you were a black dude and an older white man called you ******, you'd still feel weird.  It's just not the preferred term.


But it's spelled Kaidan in the game and on the site.



Bioware used both spellings prior to the release of the game.

But if you want to enter that technicality, lets call these things into evidence.  In-game his name is pronounced KAY-DEHN rather than KA-EE-DAHN, which would be the Japanese pronunciation.  "Kaidan" in Japanese very roughly means ghost story, whereas "Kaiden" in Arabic means companion.

So in my opinion, I think the designers acually meant Kaiden rather than Kaidan, but Kaidan might just look prettier.  In American English Saren should be spelled Seren, but Saren just seems to look nicer.

And if he actually was born and raised in Malaysia, a country noted for its enormous Muslim population, then his parents giving him an Arabic name rather than a Japanese name makes much more sense.

Modifié par Railstay, 26 janvier 2010 - 04:29 .


#133
fortunesque

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Railstay wrote...



Bioware used both spellings prior to the release of the game.

But if you want to enter that technicality, lets call these things into evidence.  In-game his name is pronounced KAY-DEHN rather than KA-EE-DAHN, which would be the Japanese pronunciation.  "Kaidan" in Japanese very roughly means ghost story, whereas "Kaiden" in Arabic means companion.

Now what meaning seems to suit Kaidan more?  Does he seem like a ghost story to you or an NPC companion?

And if he actually was born and raised in Malaysia, a country noted for its enormous Muslim population, then his parents giving him an Arabic name rather than a Japanese name makes much more sense.


Okay I'll play the technical game =]

They settled on Kaidan for the final spelling.

Ghost story fits for him as well. His whole situation with BAAT and Vyrnus fits for that translation of the name. He tells you the story about ghosts from his past.

Just because his mom was in Malaysia when the transport crash occurred doesn't mean that he's Malaysian. His dad was Alliance; it was likely that them being there was a temporary stationing.

#134
Vagivan

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lmao this is handsdown weirdest thread ever
half of it is defining the word oriental
for me as one of "oriental descent", i seriously could care less about that word being used lol, we really dont need people making a big deal out of it, must be asians in some country outside of north america who need to suck it up and stop playing the racist card, makes us all look bad

Modifié par Vagivan, 26 janvier 2010 - 04:36 .


#135
Railstay

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fortunesque wrote...

Railstay wrote...



Bioware used both spellings prior to the release of the game.

But if you want to enter that technicality, lets call these things into evidence.  In-game his name is pronounced KAY-DEHN rather than KA-EE-DAHN, which would be the Japanese pronunciation.  "Kaidan" in Japanese very roughly means ghost story, whereas "Kaiden" in Arabic means companion.

Now what meaning seems to suit Kaidan more?  Does he seem like a ghost story to you or an NPC companion?

And if he actually was born and raised in Malaysia, a country noted for its enormous Muslim population, then his parents giving him an Arabic name rather than a Japanese name makes much more sense.


Okay I'll play the technical game =]

They settled on Kaidan for the final spelling.

Ghost story fits for him as well. His whole situation with BAAT and Vyrnus fits for that translation of the name. He tells you the story about ghosts from his past.

Just because his mom was in Malaysia when the transport crash occurred doesn't mean that he's Malaysian. His dad was Alliance; it was likely that them being there was a temporary stationing.


That's a big stretch for me.  When you bring in names like Saren which should be spelled differently than how they're actually pronounced in game to Kaidan's role as a companion, then for me I'd prefer to think they actually meant the Arabic name.

Also, names don't have any connection to race either.  Many Chinese-Filipinos abandoned their ancestral surnames and adopted native or Spanish last names, especially after World War II during the communist scare.  Jose Rizal is the national hero of the Phillipines, but he was full blooded Chinese.  I'm an Asian American, but I have a Hebrew name, and I'm guessing the majority of the rest of you do as well.  Most people named John, Mary, Isaac, Daniel, Michael, Adam and Sarah are not Jewish.

So given the area he's in, a place with a lot of Muslims, it makes a lot of sense that his parents would give him an Arabic name.

#136
ratzerman

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fortunesque wrote...

Just because his mom was in Malaysia when the transport crash occurred doesn't mean that he's Malaysian. His dad was Alliance; it was likely that them being there was a temporary stationing.


I completely agree.  Kaidan's parents could've been born anywhere.  And don't they live in Vancouver?

#137
fortunesque

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Railstay wrote...

fortunesque wrote...

Railstay wrote...



Bioware used both spellings prior to the release of the game.

But if you want to enter that technicality, lets call these things into evidence.  In-game his name is pronounced KAY-DEHN rather than KA-EE-DAHN, which would be the Japanese pronunciation.  "Kaidan" in Japanese very roughly means ghost story, whereas "Kaiden" in Arabic means companion.

Now what meaning seems to suit Kaidan more?  Does he seem like a ghost story to you or an NPC companion?

And if he actually was born and raised in Malaysia, a country noted for its enormous Muslim population, then his parents giving him an Arabic name rather than a Japanese name makes much more sense.


Okay I'll play the technical game =]

They settled on Kaidan for the final spelling.

Ghost story fits for him as well. His whole situation with BAAT and Vyrnus fits for that translation of the name. He tells you the story about ghosts from his past.

Just because his mom was in Malaysia when the transport crash occurred doesn't mean that he's Malaysian. His dad was Alliance; it was likely that them being there was a temporary stationing.


That's a big stretch for me.  When you bring in names like Saren which should be spelled differently than how they're actually pronounced in game to Kaidan's role as a companion, then for me I'd prefer to think they actually meant the Arabic name.

Also, names don't have any connection to race either.  Many Chinese-Filipinos abandoned their ancestral surnames and adopted native or Spanish last names, especially after World War II during the communist scare.  Jose Rizal is the national hero of the Phillipines, but he was full blooded Chinese.  I'm an Asian American, but I have a Hebrew name, and I'm guessing the majority of the rest of you do as well.  Most people named John, Mary, Isaac, Daniel, Michael, Adam and Sarah are not Jewish.

So given the area he's in, a place with a lot of Muslims, it makes a lot of sense that his parents would give him an Arabic name.


But you're assuming that he's living in Malaysia or that he was even born there. His mother could have been visiting Malaysia for a weekend and got some bad luck, you know?

Besides that, the transport crash was in Singapore, which currently is comprised of 74% Chinese and only 3.2% Arabic and Eurasians. So to say that they picked an Arab name doesn't quite make sense.

#138
SmilingMirror

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Vagivan wrote...

lmao this is handsdown weirdest thread ever
half of it is defining the word oriental
for me as one of "oriental descent", i seriously could care less about that word being used lol, we really dont need people making a big deal out of it, must be asians in some country outside of north america who need to suck it up and stop playing the racist card, makes us all look bad

Well, it might not be that important to you, but just the same I'd like to be as respectful about each person's background as I can. Theres no point in antagonizing anyone.

#139
ITSSEXYTIME

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Simple, they're all in Jade Empire. 

#140
Vagivan

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SmilingMirror wrote...

Vagivan wrote...

lmao this is handsdown weirdest thread ever
half of it is defining the word oriental
for me as one of "oriental descent", i seriously could care less about that word being used lol, we really dont need people making a big deal out of it, must be asians in some country outside of north america who need to suck it up and stop playing the racist card, makes us all look bad

Well, it might not be that important to you, but just the same I'd like to be as respectful about each person's background as I can. Theres no point in antagonizing anyone.


you do know that if one were to deem the word oriental as racist, it would be because of the treatment of asians during the early days of north america so seeing as how north american asians do not seem to throw a hissy fit when its used, its pointless for other asians in other countries who have no historical relation to the word to cry over it

its like a person in africa getting angry over being called a ****** even though they have no affiliation with the word compared to black people in america when they were subjected to racism, just doesnt really make sense

#141
Willie_on_Wheels

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 Here's the "Oriental":Image IPB

#142
steve1945

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The Demonologist wrote...

steve1945 wrote...

The Demonologist wrote...

steve1945 wrote...

I find it odd that oriental is considered offensive. I mean im white. I dont care if people call me white. Or anglo saxon. If I was black I wouldnt mind being called black. Of african. If I was asian I wouldnt mind being called asian. or oriental. The Orient is all of the Asian nations. Why not say oriental? It holds no negatives I can see.


That being said I put absolutely no stock in political correctness and actually go out of my way to be non pc. I cant stand political correctness. I guess im just a close minded bigot


I don't like it when people call me African. I'm not African. I'm Black(or African American if it makes you nervous. ;O)

Oriental has been used in a negative context quite a bit. It's an 'archaic' term, and we might as well use asian.




Well Id call you black then. Though I dont see why you would say youre not African. Its your homeland. Thats one of the reasons I have no problem being called anglo saxon, or Germanic. I come from Prussia and I am proud of that. I look at its beauty and acomplishments and I am reminded that I am from a wonderful place.


It's a bit more complicated than that. Black culture in America is distinct from African culture. (with exceptions where people attempted to revive 'traditional' African practices amongst us) while you can certainly see the roots of culture, as two different things we like to maintain a separate identity. I don't want to be African, because African is not what I am, literally, or culturally. I'm African-American. Black. Culturally, and literally.


Think of it this way. If your family was brought over here, and told to start anew culturally, you'd come up with something different. It'll definitely be similar to what was had in Prussia, but it won't be prussian. Generations later, would you appreciate what you feel is unique being told its simply the same as something elsewhere? That the cultural identity you've worked hard to create should simply be absorbed into what it is that you come from?

I'm by no means a scholar, but its a deeper issue than it seems. And certainly would deserve its own discussion.




I see where you're comming from and id say your correct. Why dont we just call ourselves Americans. Thats the ticket.

#143
TileToad

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Lethys1 wrote...

Oriental is not the preferred nomenclature.

Asian Americans, please.

Lethys1, these aren't the guys who build railroads here.. These are the guys that peed on my rug! :P

#144
Railstay

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fortunesque wrote...

Railstay wrote...

fortunesque wrote...

Railstay wrote...



Bioware used both spellings prior to the release of the game.

But if you want to enter that technicality, lets call these things into evidence.  In-game his name is pronounced KAY-DEHN rather than KA-EE-DAHN, which would be the Japanese pronunciation.  "Kaidan" in Japanese very roughly means ghost story, whereas "Kaiden" in Arabic means companion.

Now what meaning seems to suit Kaidan more?  Does he seem like a ghost story to you or an NPC companion?

And if he actually was born and raised in Malaysia, a country noted for its enormous Muslim population, then his parents giving him an Arabic name rather than a Japanese name makes much more sense.


Okay I'll play the technical game =]

They settled on Kaidan for the final spelling.

Ghost story fits for him as well. His whole situation with BAAT and Vyrnus fits for that translation of the name. He tells you the story about ghosts from his past.

Just because his mom was in Malaysia when the transport crash occurred doesn't mean that he's Malaysian. His dad was Alliance; it was likely that them being there was a temporary stationing.


That's a big stretch for me.  When you bring in names like Saren which should be spelled differently than how they're actually pronounced in game to Kaidan's role as a companion, then for me I'd prefer to think they actually meant the Arabic name.

Also, names don't have any connection to race either.  Many Chinese-Filipinos abandoned their ancestral surnames and adopted native or Spanish last names, especially after World War II during the communist scare.  Jose Rizal is the national hero of the Phillipines, but he was full blooded Chinese.  I'm an Asian American, but I have a Hebrew name, and I'm guessing the majority of the rest of you do as well.  Most people named John, Mary, Isaac, Daniel, Michael, Adam and Sarah are not Jewish.

So given the area he's in, a place with a lot of Muslims, it makes a lot of sense that his parents would give him an Arabic name.


But you're assuming that he's living in Malaysia or that he was even born there. His mother could have been visiting Malaysia for a weekend and got some bad luck, you know?

Besides that, the transport crash was in Singapore, which currently is comprised of 74% Chinese and only 3.2% Arabic and Eurasians. So to say that they picked an Arab name doesn't quite make sense.



But your explanation is getting more and more complicated.  I'm not saying your interpretation is wrong, but I am saying that it gets shred to pieces by Occam's razor.

http://en.wikipedia....i/Occam's_razor

What are your reasons for assuming that Kaidan's name comes from the Japanese compound word for "ghost story"?  It lies solely upon the fact that it could act as a metaphor for the "ghosts" in his past.  What are my reasons?


1.  He was born in Malaysia, a country where the majority of people are Muslim.  So, his parents gave him the Arabic name Kaiden, which is simply an anglicized version of the Arabic word for "companion".  It can be spelled any number of ways, including Kaidan, just like how Jonathan can be spelled Jonathan or Johnathan.

2.  He is literally a companion in the game, fulfilling the role of his name.

3.  Before Mass Effect came out, Bioware used both spellings of his name in the pre-release material.  Also Saren, whose name is supposed to be pronounced ser-ehn, is actually "misspelled" as well.  His name should actually be spelled Seren, but Saren just looks nicer, and it's logical then to assume that Bioware thought Kaidan can look nicer than Kaiden.

4.  Everyone in the game pronounces his name kay-den, not kai-dan.


Now, lets take Ashley.  To me, she is very clearly a reference to Ashley Williams in the Evil Dead movies.  Someone else could claim that's not true and she's actually named after the Welsh soccer player, but if he/she wanted to make that argument, that person would have to make more and more convoluted theories in order to support it.  The basis of my theory is much simpler:  On Virmire, Ash directly references the Ash of Evil Dead with the line, "Nothing like a nice walk on the beach, blasting bad guys with my boomstick."

So my theory follows some simpler connections.  Kaidan is a companion, and Kaiden is Arabic for companion, therefore he's named after the Arabic name.  He was born in Malaysia, a country made up mostly of Muslims, so therefore his name is most likely Arabic.  Your links are more tenuous.  His parent could have been just stopping by, he has ghosts in his past and the biggest question:  Why give him a Japanese name?  Seems totally out of the blue.  But if his name is actually Arabic, a name that means companion, and he was born on Malaysia, it makes a lot more sense.

Anyway:  More Asian guys in the game, please.  As really interesting and cool party members.  Here's hoping for Mass Effect 3.



P.S

The Singapore connection is muddy.  It's never clarified whether eezo exposure happened only to people in Singapore or if wind could've carried it to other places, like Malaysia which is pretty close by.  Either way, the prevalence of human biotics from all ethnic backgrounds means Singapore is a melting pot in the future, a military base or the exposure covered more than just Singapore.

Also, you use racial population as an assumption that race = religion.  I think we covered before that race, culture, nationality and ethnicity are all completely exclusive from one another.  Half of Singapore is Buddhist, but the second largest religion in Singapore is Islam, at about 14-15%.  Race has nothing to do with religion.  In fact China has tons of Muslims, about 18 million, and has some of the richest and oldest Islamic history in the world.  Zheng He, the admiral who led the great Ming Expeditions of the 1400s, was an ethnic Hui and a Muslim.

Modifié par Railstay, 28 janvier 2010 - 02:39 .


#145
AliasGrace

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It's cause mass effect is in the same universe as firefly!