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Feeling angry, disappointed and screwed over because of poor console porting


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#51
Bugsie

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I'm glad you got used to them, but whether that's true or not, they are still objectively worse than the previous games. Why on earth would anyone prefer DAI's looting over DA2, or the lack of auto-attacks, or a crappy tactical camera over the previous installments. They are just better.

i agree previous games controls were better, but it didn't take me long to get used to them, pretty much like every other game where you have to learn their control and combat system.

I used the tactical cam a bit in previous games, but it doesn't feel as intuitive this time around

#52
egervari

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What I did rather early on was swapping the mouse buttons. The auto attack is now in the right mouse button and all interactions with the world like collecting herbs, looting, or opening doors is on the left mouse button. Works very well for me. Perhaps give it a try?

That doesn't address of my issues, although left-click to attack was also an annoying design decision. That is the least of the game's problems, however.



#53
egervari

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i agree previous games controls were better, but it didn't take me long to get used to them, pretty much like every other game where you have to learn their control and combat system.

I used the tactical cam a bit in previous games, but it doesn't feel as intuitive this time around

Even after you learn the new controls, it is still worse than what came before. The controls and ui have regressed. They didn't just change to be different. They actually got worse. It is more tedious and requires more button presses to accomplish what you could in the previous games with much less. Even looting is just more of a pain than it used to be as well. The issue I have with the controls isn't simply a learning curve or even that the buttons have been shifted around. It is a far deeper problem. If the key bindings could be tweaked to solve my problems, I would not have complained. But that's not really the issue.


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#54
Julia Luna

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About people saying there is no objectivity when talking about controls, well you are very wrong...

Surely people have different opinions and may prefer a worse control system but there are objective ways of analyzing how good is a control system.

So I guess the first is response, how fast and how precise a system respond to your commands.

The second is the difficulty of dealing with controls, the easier the control makes to achieve a goal, the better it is.

In fact, screw it (not in the mood to explain it all), think about a car. There are people that hate modern cars, they think them too soft to control, some people dislike better controls that's it. If the car responds better and easier to what you do it is better, even if you don't like it.

Unless you are a masochist if a control have better response and achieve your gool easier and with more precision, it is better.

 

Now, let's anayze it without the bullshit that has been said here about controls being "subjective".

Ok, you could tell me that you would rather walk very close to an item and having to press a button to pick it, ok, your choice, I would rather just click it from miles away and wait for my character to pick it up while I watch.

It is the same with a car, maybe you love driving and don't mind driving 8 hours nonstop but it is better, objectively, to have a car that allows you, when you want to, to just sleep as he drives you with the same speed, and less risks of accidents and making mistakes than if you were driving yourself.

 

Masochism does not mean something is subjective. If you would rather have a control system that makes things more difficult and inacurrate it doesn't make controls subective. If 10%, 50%, 99% or even 100% of people adapt to a control system it does not make it good, or bad, the characteristics I cited above do, and others too. Everything must be rated according to its original purpose. A bad control is only good when it is supposed to be bad, like as in to make it harder for the player to perform some action.

 

Now you have learned to quit on this subjective crap. You like a music, ok. But is this music good? Depends on the original purpose. Did the singer make it for money? Yeah? Well if he got the money, then the music is perfect! Did he make it to tell a story? Well he sold 10 million copies but in an online survey most people said they liked the rythm and didn't even know the lyrics so it is a failure.

 

Then unless Bioware wanted every single action to demand more time, attention, precision and commands than the previous version the controls are objectively worse. Unless the game is supposed to be more demanding to play it is worse. There is no subjectivity here, if you need to click twice to perform and action the used to need just one click it is worse, even if you like it better. If you need to hold a button while previously you just had to click once, it is worse. If you have to walk youself and find yourself the routes and keep on pinging to find items, it is worse. But I don't exclude the possibility of this working as intended and thus making me all wrong, Bioware got so stupid that I can picture them making controls worse for people having more "immersion" in the game, I do actually believe they can be THAT stupid. In fact despite my point in this post I do actually believe this is the case. When I read Bioware's retarded minds (in other words, all of them) I see them making in more actiongamelike thinking that players would feel themselves more in the game since the character movements would respond more dierctly to the player, then, at least in their minds, it would become more personal. I see in their (stupid) minds something like: "WOW THIS WORLD IS SO BEAUTIFUL AND BIG AND ALIVE THAT PLAYERS NEED TO FEEL THEY ARE IN. SIMPLES CLICKS ARE TOO DISTANT, A PLAYER NEED TO FEEL THEY ARE JUMPING AND REALLY CONTROLLING THE CHARATCER YEAH THAT'S IT ACTION RPG TIME, OH  THEY WILL LOVE IT" and sadly they were right, most people loved it.


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#55
Joseph Warrick

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What I did rather early on was swapping the mouse buttons. The auto attack is now in the right mouse button and all interactions with the world like collecting herbs, looting, or opening doors is on the left mouse button. Works very well for me. Perhaps give it a try?

 

You have to keep a mouse button down? My metacarpus won't be happy about that.



#56
They call me a SpaceCowboy

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The PC UI is different from the Console UI. You're not making any sense, you realize that right? I won't even bother continuing since you all are so set on hating the game for the most ridiculous reasons imaginable.  

 

Sure, it looks different, we have a hotbar instead of a radial menu. Big whoop. I described exactly how the UI operates like a console. You are in denial, and projecting.

 

But no, I don't hate the game. I even said I got used to the controls and they are not that bad. Selective reading on your part? That doesn't change that its a keyboard interface overlaid on a console control scheme.



#57
They call me a SpaceCowboy

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What I did rather early on was swapping the mouse buttons. The auto attack is now in the right mouse button and all interactions with the world like collecting herbs, looting, or opening doors is on the left mouse button. Works very well for me. Perhaps give it a try?

 

I thought remapping mouse buttons was not possible? How did you do this?



#58
Joe-Poe

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I ranted just like you OP.  But then after playing a week I've grown accustomed to its nuances.   

 

Hint: rebind the default keys for tactical camera.

 

On a side note I do have a Razer Tartarus on my left, a 10 year old G15 (still going strong, great quality Logitech!) at my center, and a 13+ button gaming mouse to my right all of which are customizable so am sure that has something to do with it.

 

In this day and age, if you still on your basic 10 dollar Keyboard and 2 button mouse, you deserve to suffer  :D

Except your 13 button mouse doesnt matter because you Can't remap any key to a mouse button you can't even change the left or right mouse buttons for leftys or rightys... so what was your point again.... :ph34r:



#59
Arijharn

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I'm glad you got used to them, but whether that's true or not, they are still objectively worse than the previous games. Why on earth would anyone prefer DAI's looting over DA2, or the lack of auto-attacks, or a crappy tactical camera over the previous installments. They are just better.

 

You really don't know what objectively means do you? You may have an opinion. It may even be shared by other people, but at the end of the day it's your opinion. You have a subjective opinion which by it's very definition, isn't objective.

 

Having said that though; I own it on xbone and honestly I think it's their buggiest game. Some of the issues I can think of off the top of my head:

 

• Instability. The game crashes back to desktop occasionally.

• Loading: The game takes ages to load at some times. Some cut-scenes caused issues as well, including the dragon introduction cutscene during the final battle with Coreyphius or however you spell it. The one where Cole wants to decide whether he wants to be a spirit or attempt to be a human also took a couple of times to actually load it for whatever reason.

• Cache problems: Possibly related to above, but typically encountered during the Skyhold area's, but sometimes Iron Bull didn't want to load inside the Tavern at various points within the game. Exiting the tavern, running around and coming back typically solved the issue as well. Post epilogue I was running around Skyhold when I noticed that Cullen hadn't loaded, then I noticed that most of the people around Blackwall including himself didn't load (including those merchants). I then ran back into Skyhold and noticed that not only was my throne no longer there, but neither were the tables, the various nobles, Josephine and Varric either. Undercroft was inexplicably barren too. Saving and reloading the save fixed the issue though.

• Hanged speech. Pretty prevalent in practically every conversation with Hawke, although when you're all in the fade together it was rather flowing. Had to sometimes spam x and miss bits of the convo.

 

Despite these problems, I still think it's an enjoyable game and I even think it's a step in the right direction for Bioware. Frostbite looks gorgeous and I hope they continue to use it to pretty their worlds up. For it's flaws I think DAI visual design is gorgeous and I'd give the director a mickey mouse badge if I could.


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#60
Augustei

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My main problem is the DRM or Poor Rendering or w/e the **** it is causing my game to only get 10-20 fps, I cannot even play this game. I know its not my hardware since I 16gb RAM, I7 4790, Radeon R9 290.
I dont even care about any of the games other issues atm because as It stands I cant even bloody play it



#61
Navasha

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For me the PC control problems boil down to lack of mouse button mapping and no cursor edge camera scrolling.    The tac camera needs to be MUCH more dynamic and fluid.    Having to "walk" it around things is just sort of nonsensical to me.   Surely, its a small thing to turn on 'no clipping' for the camera model. 

 

I don't experience any bugs or performance issues, so I can't speak to those at all.  



#62
landis_kan

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I remapped A and D to side step rather than turn.

E to Search,

Space to Jump,

C to pause,

 

I always forget to use the group commands like Hold Position, Cancel Commands etc, mostly because when I did use them I couldn't tell if they actually did anything. Probably not a PC control issue though.

 

I don't use R to attack, just use the LMB.

 

Key Mapping doesn't recognise any mouse buttons other than LMB and RMB.

 

Took a little while but I got used to it.

 

Edit: annoying niggle is when i try to scroll further out for a wider view and it automatically goes into Tactical Mode. I'd like to be able to scroll further out and only go into Tactical if I press the Tactical key.



#63
Kantr

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I dont understand any of the problems people are having.



#64
Klory

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I dont understand any of the problems people are having.

You don't understand that people might get technical issues that you might not get that are not limited to old hardware and bad software?

You don't understand that people might experience quest bugs that make it impossible to complete a quest?

You don't understand that people don't experience any music in battle or hubs?

You don't understand that there are individuals who miss having competent AI?

You don't understand that bugs make the tac cam less useful?

You don't understand that my friend who had the tips of three fingers cut off in an accident doesn't like the controls and can't easily use a controller?

You don't understand that games designed for consoles that are ported to PC's were configured to use VRAM in a way that isn't optimal on a PC which then requires people to buy GPU's more expensive than a next gen console because developers don't have the time/money/experience to develop it for the pc as well as the console?

 

What don't you understand? No seriously the point isn't to be condescending, but please say you don't understand because of specific reasons IYHO rather than just saying that you don't understand. On a side note most of these points are not limited to pc and I'd like to point out that there are bugs in previous Bioware games that were never fixed by Bioware like for instance losing all your main characters equipped gear after being captured by the Architect in DA:O. A patch may come that fixes these issues. Or it may not, perhaps even due to the fact that the developers may not be able to consistently duplicate the issue or due to problems with an engine that Bioware probably isn't as familiar with as they'd like to be and that they do not control



#65
Charcoal15

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You don't understand that people might get technical issues that you might not get that are not limited to old hardware and bad software?

You don't understand that people might experience quest bugs that make it impossible to complete a quest?

You don't understand that people don't experience any music in battle or hubs?

You don't understand that there are individuals who miss having competent AI?

You don't understand that bugs make the tac cam less useful?

You don't understand that my friend who had the tips of three fingers cut off in an accident doesn't like the controls and can't easily use a controller?

You don't understand that games designed for consoles that are ported to PC's were configured to use VRAM in a way that isn't optimal on a PC which then requires people to buy GPU's more expensive than a next gen console because developers don't have the time/money/experience to develop it for the pc as well as the console?

 

What don't you understand? No seriously the point isn't to be condescending, but please say you don't understand because of specific reasons IYHO rather than just saying that you don't understand. On a side note most of these points are not limited to pc and I'd like to point out that there are bugs in previous Bioware games that were never fixed by Bioware like for instance losing all your main characters equipped gear after being captured by the Architect in DA:O. A patch may come that fixes these issues. Or it may not, perhaps even due to the fact that the developers may not be able to consistently duplicate the issue or due to problems with an engine that Bioware probably isn't as familiar with as they'd like to be and that they do not control

Not to go off on another topic, but isn't that supposed to happen? I remember seeing a lot of complaints about that until people realized you fight something with your gear equipped a little while later to get it back.



#66
Klory

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Not to go off on another topic, but isn't that supposed to happen? I remember seeing a lot of complaints about that until people realized you fight something with your gear equipped a little while later to get it back.

Taken from Dragon Age Wiki: "There is a bug where equipment, armor and/or weapons the Warden-Commander was wearing are unrecoverable after waking up in the Holding Cells. You will know the bug has occurred if the main character is naked instead of clothed like the others and only three Experimental Subjects spawn. It is advisable to save before entering the mines in case this does happen, as the only way to fix it is to reload the save and try again, or take off all equipment before entering. If you do that, you can then retrieve your gear from the chest beside Armaas. In some cases you will retain all items in your inventory, and only lose equipped items. Taking all items off each character has caused all inventory items to be lost in some cases. This bug has not been fixed on the PC version and still persists with the latest update 1.05. PC There is an unofficial fix for this issue."

 

I think that wearing certain items also increased the chance of this happening. The only thing I remember offhand is if you wore the key to the city you got in Orzammar



#67
Tommy6860

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I've been reading a few threads on the banter/music issues (among others) and I feel good that I haven't bought the game yet. I think I'll hold off for a while until these issues get worked out. I saw on the Angry Joe review that the tactical camera view doesn't work properly/or it is not tactical; is that true? I also saw in the review that choices really don't make much of an effect on the story as it did in DA:O and the controls are a bit wonky as well.



#68
Klory

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The tac cam has an infuriatingly low ceiling (not a bug), seems to lock on to some invisible character/object on start (bug) and resets to said invisibile object on selecting another character (bug). You can't select multiple characters in a box like previous games and there are completely different default keys to the ones you normally use to move,select and attack. On the plus side its the only way to use auto attack for basic attacks and since the AI is incredibly stupid and can't be changed to the extent you could in previous games, you'll need to use tac cam often on harder difficulties

 

As for choices, give me the name of any game and I'll disprove how much your personal choice matters in that game. I'll admit that you can't actually be evil and selfish in this game and that certain choices matter more from a lore perspective rather than an actual ingame advantage.



#69
egervari

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Except your 13 button mouse doesnt matter because you Can't remap any key to a mouse button you can't even change the left or right mouse buttons for leftys or rightys... so what was your point again.... :ph34r:

Yeah, and we can't create a loot toggle or enable auto-attacks, which are two much-needed features that mere key-bindings would never resolve in the first place. I don't know why key bindings keeps coming up as a solution when it doesn't address these problems.



#70
egervari

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You really don't know what objectively means do you? You may have an opinion. It may even be shared by other people, but at the end of the day it's your opinion. You have a subjective opinion which by it's very definition, isn't objective.

I already addressed this here:

 

http://forum.bioware...ing/?p=17904070

 

and here:

 

http://forum.bioware...ing/?p=17904600



#71
egervari

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I've been reading a few threads on the banter/music issues (among others) and I feel good that I haven't bought the game yet. I think I'll hold off for a while until these issues get worked out. I saw on the Angry Joe review that the tactical camera view doesn't work properly/or it is not tactical; is that true? I also saw in the review that choices really don't make much of an effect on the story as it did in DA:O and the controls are a bit wonky as well.

The tactical camera is garbage. Some issues with it can be fixed via key-bindings, but it's even laughable that the defaults are setup so miserably. Everything from the way you move the camera around, the level of zoom, the non-locked camera angles, etc. is just super awkward. And if you played DA:O or DA2 recently, good luck getting used to pressing ctrl instead of space to pause and un-pause combat because they added jumping functionality to the game. I don't know why they even allow jumping during combat for.



#72
Kantr

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You don't understand that people might get technical issues that you might not get that are not limited to old hardware and bad software?

You don't understand that people might experience quest bugs that make it impossible to complete a quest?

You don't understand that people don't experience any music in battle or hubs?

You don't understand that there are individuals who miss having competent AI?

You don't understand that bugs make the tac cam less useful?

You don't understand that my friend who had the tips of three fingers cut off in an accident doesn't like the controls and can't easily use a controller?

You don't understand that games designed for consoles that are ported to PC's were configured to use VRAM in a way that isn't optimal on a PC which then requires people to buy GPU's more expensive than a next gen console because developers don't have the time/money/experience to develop it for the pc as well as the console?

 

What don't you understand? No seriously the point isn't to be condescending, but please say you don't understand because of specific reasons IYHO rather than just saying that you don't understand. On a side note most of these points are not limited to pc and I'd like to point out that there are bugs in previous Bioware games that were never fixed by Bioware like for instance losing all your main characters equipped gear after being captured by the Architect in DA:O. A patch may come that fixes these issues. Or it may not, perhaps even due to the fact that the developers may not be able to consistently duplicate the issue or due to problems with an engine that Bioware probably isn't as familiar with as they'd like to be and that they do not control

Just the problems with the controls :)

 

Or how people with better system than I have get problems with it.

 

The rest of it, because I'm heartless I dont care about :)



#73
Kantr

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The tac cam has an infuriatingly low ceiling (not a bug), seems to lock on to some invisible character/object on start (bug) and resets to said invisibile object on selecting another character (bug). You can't select multiple characters in a box like previous games and there are completely different default keys to the ones you normally use to move,select and attack. On the plus side its the only way to use auto attack for basic attacks and since the AI is incredibly stupid and can't be changed to the extent you could in previous games, you'll need to use tac cam often on harder difficulties

 

As for choices, give me the name of any game and I'll disprove how much your personal choice matters in that game. I'll admit that you can't actually be evil and selfish in this game and that certain choices matter more from a lore perspective rather than an actual ingame advantage.

There's a cheatengine fix for the tac cam not zooming out enough.

 

You could never be evil in the dragon age series (aside from the darkspawn dlc) want to be properly evil. There are other games for that



#74
Charcoal15

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Just the problems with the controls :)

 

Or how people with better system than I have get problems with it.

 

The rest of it, because I'm heartless I dont care about :)

A tiny little part of me wants to say "some people have game breaking bugs, how dare you dismiss their problems!" but then the sane and more intelligent part of me thinks "If I had no bugs at all, I also would not care at all." So honestly, good for you, if your enjoying the game then why care about the problems of others.



#75
Charcoal15

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Taken from Dragon Age Wiki: "There is a bug where equipment, armor and/or weapons the Warden-Commander was wearing are unrecoverable after waking up in the Holding Cells. You will know the bug has occurred if the main character is naked instead of clothed like the others and only three Experimental Subjects spawn. It is advisable to save before entering the mines in case this does happen, as the only way to fix it is to reload the save and try again, or take off all equipment before entering. If you do that, you can then retrieve your gear from the chest beside Armaas. In some cases you will retain all items in your inventory, and only lose equipped items. Taking all items off each character has caused all inventory items to be lost in some cases. This bug has not been fixed on the PC version and still persists with the latest update 1.05. PC There is an unofficial fix for this issue."

 

I think that wearing certain items also increased the chance of this happening. The only thing I remember offhand is if you wore the key to the city you got in Orzammar

I see, thanks for clearing that up. As I said, I remember a lot of people claiming to have that bug but not understanding that you get the gear back later, so I was not sure if it was actually a bug.