79 réponses à ce sujet

[SwobyJ]

I feel like I'm on crazy pills because I actually love most of this stuff.

[Sartoz]

The reverse is also true. I can't tell you how many times I've found items 4 level higher than me. Now this wouldn't be so bad if we had storage. But does BW expect me to keep that item in my inventory for 4 levels? I guess they do.

Yep, that is what I did. I kept it knowing I could use it at level 8. Sadly, at level 7 I crafted a similar item at a higher level.

[Icy Magebane]

This is especially gamebreaking/punishing when considering you don't earn exp for defeating enemies more than three levels below yours. Cheating the player out of rewards is not cool...

This right here removes any desire for me to fight enemies, regardless of the game... and because I did a lot of quests that I assumed I should have been doing, it happened much earlier than I expected.  I thought it was a good idea to stabilize each region before moving on to a new one... that makes sense, right?  Unfortunately, if you do this in every region, you will wind up far more powerful than the enemies, even if you skip the quests that don't seem relevant to securing the area and restoring order.  Either the exp given for enemies, codex entries, quest, etc, should have been a bit lower or the game should have been shorter... as it stands, there is too much pointless content here...  If I play this game a second time I will be sure to skip most of the side quests in order to avoid this.  The folks in the Hinterlands are just going to have to do without food and blankets...

[nightscrawl]

I far out leveled the final operation of the game. Recommended level was 17-19, I was 24. I completed every zone and did everything possible and that is how I got my levels. However, I know this was my own fault. I purposely attempted to complete everything, but I did it in such a manner as to not complete the zones linearly, which had the unfortunate result of chopping up my story experience.
 
I think if the player focuses on getting to the camps in each zone, closing the rifts that you are able, taking operations as they open up which you start with the Power you gained from closing rifts, that you should be able to progress in a more or less linear fashion and not out level anything too badly. Also, don't do every side quest. I found that it makes some zones way more tedious than they should be.
 
That said, it's obvious that some things are designed for the post-game experience. As mentioned, the recommended level for the final operation is 17-19, but there are some high level dragons that are 21+; three in Emprise du Lion alone.
 

Spoiler

BUT, if you have Solas specced as your main support mage, you will want to complete some of the more difficult tasks before the end of the game because he is unavailable for the party after that. No Solas in the post-game exploration.

 

I feel like I'm on crazy pills because I actually love most of this stuff.

Oh, I thought it was great. Most of the reason I attempted to complete everything was because I didn't know what would and would not be available for my use in the post-game. Now that I know, I can play in a "better" fashion the next time.

[Gel214th]

*sigh* It's bad design, very poor design for the game to allow a player to ruin their experience so easily. 

 

You cannot draw comparisons to DA:O, because that story was paced properly, in a linear fashion and could never have these problems. 

DA2 similarly, linear series of missions in the Acts where the player could never really get five levels ahead of the enemies in those missions.

 

Skyrim allowed open world, and made sure that opponents were at the player's general level. The developers knew if it advertised open world, completely non-linear exploration that this would happen. So they addressed it. 

 

Even MMOs move you forward zone by zone, and makes it clear the level ranges for the zones. Yes you can go back if you want to, but it's obvious that you would be over leveled. 

 

This seems to have slipped past the DA:I development team. I see it as poor game design for an open world game. 

 

When your players can easily outlevel the *main story* there were definitely some poor game design decisons made, or at least not fully thought through. 

 

The war table should be revamped to make all these things a lot more obvious. 

 

Gods I wish we could mod this thing. >_<

[Commander Michael]

I'm very conflicted about this issue.

 

On one hand, I'm glad it rewards people who do EVERYTHING in a zone by making other zones easier. I was 30 hours into the game when I got out of the Hinterlands, I'm not joking. I did EVERYTHING; killed the dragon and everything. I was level 12 by then. The level 12 rifts were quite the challange, as I play on Nightmare + FF, but the Dragon was a joke; I could just stand behind a rock and shoot arrows at it (it just stood there). I proceeded to complete the Storm Coast and Fallow mire after that; again, completing EVERYTHING before moving on.

 

I did the "Haven gets attacked" mission when I was level 14, and it was pretty much a joke how easy it was, even on Nightmare. I think the intended level was like 7-9 or something.

 

At the moment I'm level 17 and just got out of Crestwood. It has been extremely easy so far, and the level 11 wraiths seem quite pathetic indeed. I've noticed some enemies do scale to the same level as you; I went back to the Hinterlands at one point to get a poetry book for Cassandra, and it was guarded by level 17 thugs. So there's definately some scaling on SOME enemies. 

[SwobyJ]

*sigh* It's bad design, very poor design for the game to allow a player to ruin their experience so easily. 

 

You cannot draw comparisons to DA:O, because that story was paced properly, in a linear fashion and could never have these problems. 

DA2 similarly, linear series of missions in the Acts where the player could never really get five levels ahead of the enemies in those missions.

 

Skyrim allowed open world, and made sure that opponents were at the player's general level. The developers knew if it advertised open world, completely non-linear exploration that this would happen. So they addressed it. 

 

Even MMOs move you forward zone by zone, and makes it clear the level ranges for the zones. Yes you can go back if you want to, but it's obvious that you would be over leveled. 

 

This seems to have slipped past the DA:I development team. I see it as poor game design for an open world game. 

 

When your players can easily outlevel the *main story* there were definitely some poor game design decisons made, or at least not fully thought through. 

 

The war table should be revamped to make all these things a lot more obvious. 

 

Gods I wish we could mod this thing. >_<

 

Paced properly? My first time through, I powered through Orzammar-Deep Roads on my first stop and greatly outleveled/outgeared most of the rest of the game. It was gloarious but lol no, it wasn't paced. Nothing in the story told me I had to avoid the area - I just thought there was a difficulty bump. For Brecilian, Circle Tower, Redcliffe, Ashes, and DLC, I just rampaged over the content. lol lol

 

'Linear'

 

In DA2 I did everything in each Act and definitely did feel significantly overlevel for content. As I intended.

 

EDIT: You can call it bad game design but my several friends (online and in person) who have the game and are talking about it, don't have any issue with the leveling. Though I'll see for myself soon enough. I know my boyfriend who loves JRPGs (he's just been doing optional quests in Xenoblade the past couple weeks) just takes it as a given that whole zones get outleveled and that players just have to opt for completionism. I don't think Bioware intends on us to do every bit of content (especially if they don't involve story choices for the Keep) on repeat playthroughs. I don't think any 'more open-world oriented' game intends on that. Do the stuff you want to, then move on. Or come back. Whatever.

[TripGodblossom]

I've not finished the game yet but the idea of out leveling enemies by putting in the time fills me with joy. That sense of accomplishment is what makes rpgs good. If anyone remembers Oblivion and its "bandits with ebony gear" leveling they'll know how immersion breaking it is to have a world level around you. Skyrim hid it better but still felt awkward at times - taking down dragons at level 1 for example.

 

That said I do agree that leveling in Inquisition doesn't scale particularly well to the size of the game. As someone who's nether a completionist or a casual it suits me fairly well though. 

[Z.Z]

Enemy level scaling is good and bad at the same time. While it allows more challenge, it takes away the sense of progression. This is why both Oblivion and Skyrim have popular mods that remove/partially remove the level scaling, so certain areas will not be accessible till late game, and common enemies like bandits stand no chance once you level up a little.

[SwobyJ]

Enemy level scaling is good and bad at the same time. While it allows more challenge, it takes away the sense of progression. This is why both Oblivion and Skyrim have popular mods that remove/partially remove the level scaling, so certain areas will not be accessible till late game, and common enemies like bandits stand no chance once you level up a little.

 

Yep its definitely not perfect game design (level scaling vs no level scaling vs some level scaling). In fact, there is no perfect in this case. Different people like different things.

[Kantr]

I enjoy being able to go back and smash everyone. I can visit the hinterland bears and burn them all. While if I want a challenge I'll find a giant and the evil bears

[HozzMidnight]

If the content is static and does not scale with you at all (I don't know if that is the case), then they should put level ranges in the quest descriptions for everything, not just main quests.

[Harlot]

I'm ok with enemy levels not scaling. It does bring back the sense of progression. We could do however with a short note about recommended levels for each area. Or make enemy levels in each area more varied depending on the region.

[Z.Z]

If the content is static and does not scale with you at all (I don't know if that is the case), then they should put level ranges in the quest descriptions for everything, not just main quests.

Then they may risk making it look more like an MMO. Basically they just want you to try everything first, and if it's too difficult, go back and level up a little. That's why there are so many fast travel points on most maps,

[Zhijn]

Yeah the challenge was definitely in the early hours, im just steam rolling through zones now. Level 18 and still got a couple of level 11-16 areas to finish.

 

I never understood why zones have fixed levels, it makes the questing and exploration of new areas quite dull (for me personally). There isnt that same level of awareness you have when you go into an area where the mobs could rip you a new one. It dosnt really help much either when most quests are just some codex on the ground xd.

 

Would have loved if you enter a new zone the regular mobs upscale to you, and the mini and high boss's get maybe 1 to 3 levels higher. Trash mobs like wolfs and such could stay fixed. Oh well, back to tickling the creatures of Thedas.

[Zamoysky]

Yeah the challenge was definitely in the early hours, im just steam rolling through zones now. Level 18 and still got a couple of level 11-16 areas to finish.

 

I never understood why zones have fixed levels, it makes the questing and exploration of new areas quite dull (for me personally). There isnt that same level of awareness you have when you go into an area where the mobs could rip you a new one. It dosnt really help much either when most quests are just some codex on the ground xd.

 

Would have loved if you enter a new zone the regular mobs upscale to you, and the mini and high boss's get maybe 1 to 3 levels higher. Trash mobs like wolfs and such could stay fixed. Oh well, back to tickling the creatures of Thedas.

Out levelling the game content is definitely an issue for me. Too easy content makes the game boring, I can't even test my new builds as there is no way of saying how they will handle with enemies on your level.

 

If someone likes being over powered Bioware should gives us a "hardcore" mode which would toggle up scalling all enemies to your level, whatever zone you enter. People with ridicioules idea of "I like being over powered" wille be happy then and just don't put that mode on. The rest of us will be able to enjoy the game paid for. This really bizaree design decission considering their budget.

Playing on nightmare isn't a solution, I want balanced difficulty not work arounds and damage sponge enemies.

[Monster20862]

I have well over 70 hours on 2 separate playthroughs and have not encountered this issue often enough for it to be worth mentioning. Maybe 3 or 4 times have I found myself in situations like you describe. In fact I have come across areas where I am simply no match with the enemies that are present.

It must be something that you are doing in terms of your style of play.

You're doing it wrong.

[DomeWing333]

I think this should be tied to the difficulty toggle. Casual and Normal should have set enemy levels to let players just breeze through the game by over leveling if they want, but Hard and Nightmare should have enemies that always scale to at least your level or higher.

[Monster20862]

I enjoy being able to go back and smash everyone. I can visit the hinterland bears and burn them all. While if I want a challenge I'll find a giant and the evil bears

Not being able to level up anymore is boring and makes me want to kick babies.

[Sylvius the Mad]

I think this should be tied to the difficulty toggle. Casual and Normal should have set enemy levels to let players just breeze through the game by over leveling if they want, but Hard and Nightmare should have enemies that always scale to at least your level or higher.

I wouldn't like that. In BioWare games, the story tends not to make sense at difficulty settings below Hard, but scaling never makes sense. Forcing Hard to have scaled content would basically ruin the game for me.

I don't like scaled content. I don't want scaled content. What I would like is slower levelling overall and a shallower power curve.

[DomeWing333]

I wouldn't like that. In BioWare games, the story tends not to make sense at difficulty settings below Hard, but scaling never makes sense. Forcing Hard to have scaled content would basically ruin the game for me.

I don't like scaled content. I don't want scaled content. What I would like is slower levelling overall and a shallower power curve.

How does it not make sense exactly?

 

While I would personally appreciate slower leveling overall because I have a tendency to do a lot of sidequests, other people don't. For them, slower leveling would force them to grind for levels instead of just speeding along the critical path. But if you tie leveling to the difficulty setting, people who just want to go the critical path can do so and people who want a decent challenge at every level can do so.

[line_genrou]

Yes that's one of the reasons I had to play the game on nightmare difficulty (aside from being too easy on normal)

I read here that I would have more challenge if I played on nightmare because I was bored since I overleveled everyone

[line_genrou]

I feel like I'm on crazy pills because I actually love most of this stuff.

You're indoctrinated

[KaiserShep]

Not being able to level up anymore is boring and makes me want to kick babies.

 

You can reach level 25 by the end of the main campaign. I've never managed this with the Warden pre-Awakening or Hawke.

[TaHol]

I managed to outlevel whole Exalted Plains before setting my foot there. See, there are these zones. I, strange as it is, have this picture in mind that I can do them in any order. BioWare supports my belief by not telling what is level of each zone. When someone asked for that, he was almost butchered by BSN because clearly he was a noob wanting hand holding. Clearly BSN is not bothered by the fact that in the main quest recommended levels are told, so there is a difference when this kind of "hand holding" is appropriate and not insulting for gamers intelligence. Me, as a stupid person, do not get the finesse of this.

 

So there I am first time in Exalten Plains and get zero xp. Very rewarding. I'm not a fan of level scaling, btw, but there MUST have been a way to avoid this kind of mess without it.