1898 réponses à ce sujet

[devSin]

There is no way to cheat RNG. You just have to accept what you're given.

Having a pretty lady blow on the dice before you throw them may make you feel lucky, but it's not truly affecting the roll.

[Volskygge]

There is no way to cheat RNG. You just have to accept what you're given.

Having a pretty lady blow on the dice before you throw them may make you feel lucky, but it's not truly affecting the roll.

Now, see, I am alright with RNG when it comes to loot drops or crit chance or dodges, like in an MMO. Having a core mechanic of the entire franchise depend on something, that has a botched algorithm just ruins immersion in a role playing game. You honestly can't argue with that. I understand what they tried to do, In both previous DA games and ME games, banter was kind of tied to moving through "gates" that triggered it(as in passing over a bridge or turning over a corner). Now ok that doesn't work as much in a semi-open world game as Inquisition, but the point stands - the diceroll system ON BANTER does not work.

[Metalunatic]

There is no way to cheat RNG. You just have to accept what you're given.

Having a pretty lady blow on the dice before you throw them may make you feel lucky, but it's not truly affecting the roll.

 

It's not just RNG. This has already been talked to death and proven false on the other thread.

 

There are people who have reported triggering less than 10 banters on a 100+ hour playthrough while others triggered 80+ on a run of similar length or less. Some have their parties talking every 5-20 minutes and some have theirs quiet for hours.

 

If this was all simply RNG as you claim, then the amount of banter would even out for everyone in the end.

[Fredward]

Wasn't Bioware's claim, back in the early days of this bug, that you should hear banter every 15-30 minutes? That just doesn't happen. It happened in ONE of my playthroughs seemingly at random and then the patch happened. ._.

[devSin]

It's not just RNG. This has already been talked to death and proven false on the other thread.
 
There are people who have reported triggering less than 10 banters on a 100+ hour playthrough while others triggered 80+ on a run of similar length or less. Some have their parties talking every 5-20 minutes and some have theirs quiet for hours.
 
If this was all simply RNG as you claim, then the amount of banter would even out for everyone in the end.

There's a bunch of anecdotes, but no actual evidence.

I have not seen anything indicating any bug, and my own personal experience confirms that banter can vary wildly (perhaps too much, but that would be a design flaw, not some bug that's preventing banter from firing). This also matches what BioWare has said repeatedly after investigating all the reports.

Hopefully this patch will make banter more consistent at the upper end (and I'm sure they'd be amenable to more adjustments in the future if it's still not enough), but I'm not sure people who are convinced of some bug are ever going to get the "fix" they're looking for.

Wasn't Bioware's claim, back in the early days of this bug, that you should hear banter every 15-30 minutes? That just doesn't happen. It happened in ONE of my playthroughs seemingly at random and then the patch happened. ._.

That was a rough "all things being equal" estimate, not an absolute rule.

All things are not equal, however, and they went on to clarify the ways in which you could be ineligible to hear banter at any given moment (being in combat, being close to enemies, being in dialogue, etc.).

If you stand around doing nothing, you should get banter every 15-20 minutes if you averaged it out (they never said how long; possibly the length of an entire playthrough); with the new patch, they're saying it shouldn't be possible to go more than 30 minutes without hearing a banter provided you maintain eligibility (by standing somewhere safe and doing nothing).

[Tsunami Chef]

I think the obvious solutiion if it's a que problem is to have the system retain the banter that it skips over and play it after the event blocking it happens...some people say that would suck because you would constantly get banter after combat or something...i personally think it would make sense and be a lot more enjoyable.

[Pevesh]

I'm disappointed to hear that the new patch apparently hasn't fixed the banter issues. My first playthrough suffered from very low banter rates and I was hoping this would be fixed before I started my second. I feel like the reason I felt like I didn't really know several of my companions was because I hardly heard them talk in banter, despite bring them along, and the cutscene content at Skyhold isn't enough on its own to flesh them out.

 

It's not just RNG. This has already been talked to death and proven false on the other thread.

 

There are people who have reported triggering less than 10 banters on a 100+ hour playthrough while others triggered 80+ on a run of similar length or less. Some have their parties talking every 5-20 minutes and some have theirs quiet for hours.

 

If this was all simply RNG as you claim, then the amount of banter would even out for everyone in the end.

Unless I've greatly misunderstood my statistics classes, no the banter would not be the same for everyone in the end. The average amount of banter across all players' saves (thus an average of the average of every single playthrough) would be approximately equal to whatever Bioware determined in their code (and this isn't even factoring in that banter-firing isn't 100% random since combat or riding a mount will interrupt it). Some people will suffer from a rate of very low banter triggers because of the very nature of their banter system being more-or-less random. The cases of extremely high rates of banter-firing averages out with the cases of extremely low rates of banter-firing. You'd get a curve similar to this picture, though whether or not it is an actual bell curve would depend on how they programmed it exactly. You can compare it to the human species having a certain average height, but some individuals being very tall or very short. Not all individuals are the same height. Unless you live in Thedas, apparently.

 

In short, it isn't a bug in the sense most people are using it, just a poorly designed system. Bioware didn't take into account that if they use a random system, some people through sheer randomness will get very, very little banter.

 

What I'm confused about is the patch notes said they were going to make the banter system "less random." I was hoping they would add a system that would track how long it has last been since a banter fired, and that would trigger a banter if at least X minutes had passed. If the banter is still not firing regularly for some people, it means they haven't done this. What did they do then? Just raise the average rate of firing like they originally planned? Because that will make the problem less common, but not eliminate it. I'm curious as to why they have not yet implemented a system like the one I mentioned, where there is a sort of minimum rate of firing (at least once every 15 minutes, for example). I'm not a programmer and I have no clue what their code looks like, so maybe there is a reason it couldn't be implemented, but it seems like it would be relatively simple script.

[Hunt-MaaH]

So, if I want to hear some banter I'll have to stand in some place safe for 10\20 mins doing nothing?

[Metalunatic]

Unless I've greatly misunderstood my statistics classes, no the banter would not be the same for everyone in the end. The average amount of banter across all players' saves (thus an average of the average of every single playthrough) would be approximately equal to whatever Bioware determined in their code (and this isn't even factoring in that banter-firing isn't 100% random since combat or riding a mount will interrupt it). Some people will suffer from a rate of very low banter triggers because of the very nature of their banter system being more-or-less random. The cases of extremely high rates of banter-firing averages out with the cases of extremely low rates of banter-firing. You'd get a curve similar to this picture, though whether or not it is an actual bell curve would depend on how they programmed it exactly. You can compare it to the human species having a certain average height, but some individuals being very tall or very short. Not all individuals are the same height. Unless you live in Thedas, apparently.

 

I didn't mean to imply that everyone would get the exact same amount of banter, but merely that the difference wouldn't be as extreme as in the two cases I mentioned in my previous post.

[devSin]

I think the obvious solutiion if it's a que problem is to have the system retain the banter that it skips over and play it after the event blocking it happens...some people say that would suck because you would constantly get banter after combat or something...i personally think it would make sense and be a lot more enjoyable.

We don't know how the system works. I don't think it's a simple matter of being blocked from any single banter requiring you to start the process over (otherwise, getting no banter at all would end up being far more common).

However, there must be some penalty for being in a situation where you're not eligible (though it's actually quite common to get banter just after combat ends, so maybe the game already does what you suggest in some instances). But there's no real way to determine the specifics.

All we can say is that banter is random, and you should at least get some. And now, if you stand still in a safe spot in an area where banter is allowed, it shouldn't take longer than 30 minutes to have one fire.

[Metalunatic]

And now, if you stand still, it shouldn't take longer than 30 minutes to have one fire.

 

This is the only problem with this new ''fix''. I tried this out and it's true, party banter triggers normally after 10-15 minutes, at least in the beginning of the Hinterlands. But if you try to actually move around and play the game you're screwed again.

[Pevesh]

I didn't mean to imply that everyone would get the exact same amount of banter, but merely that the difference wouldn't be as extreme as in the two cases I mentioned in my previous post.

That's what I was trying to explain is technically possible. The more extreme the lack of banter, the less likely for such a low rate to occur, but that doesn't mean it will become impossible at a certain point, just that fewer people will suffer from it. When you are dealing with a game with a couple million players, if only 0.01% of players get 10 banters or less in a 100 hour playthrough, a large number of players will still be affected and those players are also more likely to make a post complaining about it.

 

I don't know the exact numbers involved, and couldn't calculate them if I did, so I'm not exactly sure if the amount of people suffering from extreme forms of low banter are realistic or not, assuming there isn't a bug. Perhaps, I'm wrong and it is a bug, but considering we know so little about both the code, how often people should be getting banter, and how many people are getting far less than this, my assumption is a reasonable one, I think.

 

This is the only problem with this new ''fix''. I tried this out and it's true, party banter triggers normally after 10-15 minutes, at least in the beginning of the Hinterlands. But if you try to actually move around and play the game you're screwed again.

Edit: Ugh, this is disappointing. They should have designed the work around so that combat didn't interrupt it.

Modifié par Pevesh, 21 janvier 2015 - 08:20 .

[devSin]

This is the only problem with this new ''fix''. I tried this out and it's true, party banter triggers normally after 10-15 minutes, at least in the beginning of the Hinterlands. But if you try to actually move around and play the game you're screwed again.

But there should be a natural cadence to it. Banter isn't intended to play at consistent intervals (standing still is just a way to game it).

I played through some of the Forbidden Oasis after the patch yesterday and had four banters fire at random intervals, and all that time was spent playing the game normally (exploring some parts of the area I skipped, fighting enemies, gathering materials, etc.).
 

I don't know the exact numbers involved, and couldn't calculate them if I did, so I'm not exactly sure if the amount of people suffering from extreme forms of low banter are realistic or not, assuming there isn't a bug. Perhaps, I'm wrong and it is a bug, but considering we know so little about both the code, how often people should be getting banter, and how many people are getting far less than this, my assumption is a reasonable one, I think.

I think BioWare's response heavily suggests it. They've looked at everything that was reported and all the things people were suggesting as solutions, and they said there was no actual bug in the system that they could find and the suggested "fixes" weren't things that should have any actual effect on banter frequency.

All they said was that there were some edge cases that could cause people to hear less banter than was intended, and the patch apparently reduces or removes some of the randomness somewhere in the system to hopefully minimize those instances.

[Pevesh]

But there should be a natural cadence to it. Banter isn't intended to play at consistent intervals (standing still is just a way to game it).

I played through some of the Forbidden Oasis after the patch yesterday and had four banters fire at random intervals, and all that time was spent playing the game normally (exploring some parts of the area I skipped, fighting enemies, gathering materials, etc.).

I think BioWare's response more or less confirms it. They've looked at everything that was reported and all the things people were suggesting as solutions, and they said there was no actual bug in the system that they could find and the suggested "fixes" weren't things that could have any actual effect on banter frequency.

All they said was that there were some edge cases that could cause people to hear less banter than was intended, and the patch apparently reduces or removes some of the randomness somewhere in the system to hopefully minimize those instances.

A natural cadence is nice, but ultimately I prefer a system where everyone gets a minimum amount of banter. I would assume it is perfectly possible to design a system that includes both a natural cadence and dialogue that is relatively frequent for everyone, but honestly, I'd prefer at this point that I had the option to click on a pole that triggered the available banter for me. Immersion isn't really my priority anymore.

[devSin]

A natural cadence is nice, but ultimately I prefer a system where everyone gets a minimum amount of banter. I would assume it is perfectly possible to design a system that includes both a natural cadence and dialogue that is relatively frequent for everyone, but honestly, I'd prefer at this point that I had the option to click on a pole that triggered the available banter for me. Immersion isn't really my priority anymore.

I think standing still at camp may be your best bet for now, unfortunately.

You may be able to do stuff in the menu (so you can manage your inventory or read your codex, etc.) as a way to the pass the time, but I don't actually know if the system adjusts for that (it may exclude that time).

I'm sure it's something that they'll continue to adjust if whatever they've done in Patch 3 ends up being insufficient.

[Metalunatic]

How much banter did they record for DAI again? Something like 4 and a half hours if I recall correctly. Even if the banter triggered every 15 minutes like clockwork you'd still have more than enough for over a hundred hours of gameplay, considering all the no-banter zones, environmental banter (which seem to set the cooldown for regular banter as well) etc.

 

I'd rather have the banter exhausted at the, let's say, 120h mark, than miss out on a huge chunk of it because of this RNG crap. This is assuming people switch up their party.

 

If there is no bug as Bioware claims, then this system is simply not working well enough to justify it's existance.

[Danoniasty]

They only Claimend they can not reproduce the bug, but they noticed too much randomization in some cases. Banter is stopped while you in combat, and its unlikely to be out of combat for 30 min if you exploring so maybe that is the point? I mean when you engage in combat banter system resets the timer and goes from the start, that is why banter is working when u just standing for this 15-30min.

Also people are complaining that they have absolutely no banter at all after patch3

http://answers.ea.co...256862#U4256862

[Metalunatic]

They only Claimend they can not reproduce the bug, but they noticed too much randomization in some cases. Banter is stopped while you in combat, and its unlikely to be out of combat for 30 min if you exploring so maybe that is the point? I mean when you engage in combat banter system resets the timer and goes from the start, that is why banter is working when u just standing for this 15-30min.

Also people are complaining that they have absolutely no banter at all after patch3

http://answers.ea.co...256862#U4256862

 

It's ironic how post-patch 3 people with no banter issues started having them and on the other hand people with issues pre-patch 3 are seeing at least some improvement -- even if it's only by standing still for more than ten minutes.

[Nayana_Jaz]

Second this. I always had josephine's messenger working, but didn't realize the other two had one!

 

We're supposed to hear whole conversations between the advisors/companions through their messengers.

 

Like this:

Spoiler

[Ahalvern]

How much banter did they record for DAI again? Something like 4 and a half hours if I recall correctly. Even if the banter triggered every 15 minutes like clockwork you'd still have more than enough for over a hundred hours of gameplay, considering all the no-banter zones, environmental banter (which seem to set the cooldown for regular banter as well) etc.

 

I'd rather have the banter exhausted at the, let's say, 120h mark, than miss out on a huge chunk of it because of this RNG crap. This is assuming people switch up their party.

 

If there is no bug as Bioware claims, then this system is simply not working well enough to justify it's existance.

 

Indeed. If someone wants to play the game for 150+ hours, they will do it for the content, not for banter since you can look those up on youtube. The problem is, people want to hear it in game, not somewhere else. Not hearing anything for a long time while out questing makes the game very bland, and people could get some enjoyment from hearing their companions chat it up a bit.

 

Their claim that the banter system is working as intended so people will have reason to come back to the game is ridiculous. I can distinguish if my companions have exhausted all their banters or hardly talked to each other at all, thanks. They should just put the banter occuring chance every 10-15 mins to 100% and be done with it.

[Iakus]

Second this. I always had josephine's messenger working, but didn't realize the other two had one!

Huh, I never realized they had such dialogues.

 

But then, Leliana and Cullen are in much more remote locations, while Josephine is on the way to the War Table.  So I don't visit them nearly as often.

[CrabbyCrackers]

We're supposed to hear whole conversations between the advisors/companions through their messengers.

 

<spoiler>/https://www.youtube....V7tkE</spoiler>

what?? i never heard anything like this at all!!!  i get little to no banter, and never got anything like this, didn't even know it was a thing,

[Roelka_]

We're supposed to hear whole conversations between the advisors/companions through their messengers.

 

Like this:

Spoiler

 

Wow o.o Never heard that either! How much are we missing from the game because of the banter being buggy

[Efvie]

That's what I was trying to explain is technically possible. The more extreme the lack of banter, the less likely for such a low rate to occur, but that doesn't mean it will become impossible at a certain point, just that fewer people will suffer from it. When you are dealing with a game with a couple million players, if only 0.01% of players get 10 banters or less in a 100 hour playthrough, a large number of players will still be affected and those players are also more likely to make a post complaining about it.

 

Correct. All the talk about a purely random evening out is completely theoretical. It’s perfectly possible for a million people to never ever get banter, ever. Theoretically it would even out, and as pointed out, it only evens out over a population, not individuals.

 

I refuse to believe that it’s implemented in anything close to purely random. Because that would be the stupidest f— decision in games programming this decade. There have to be constraints and minimum and maximum intervals involved.

[devSin]

Wow o.o Never heard that either! How much are we missing from the game because of the banter being buggy

That would be an issue with the level (the scripting that controls when and where the messenger NPCs spawn). It wouldn't have anything to do with banter.
 

Correct. All the talk about a purely random evening out is completely theoretical. It’s perfectly possible for a million people to never ever get banter, ever. Theoretically it would even out, and as pointed out, it only evens out over a population, not individuals.
 
I refuse to believe that it’s implemented in anything close to purely random. Because that would be the stupidest f— decision in games programming this decade. There have to be constraints and minimum and maximum intervals involved.

It's not boundlessly random, obviously.

That doesn't say anything about how the bounds are achieved (there doesn't appear to be a safety net, so who knows what is controlling the upper limit). Nor about how all the additional factors can influence it.