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Party Banter


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#1601
Silith

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Okay I couldn't help myself I did some testing on my own. I used my very first PC playthrough because during that playthrough I saved an individual save about every 2 hours. It's also a playthrough where I'm very sure that I had not a lot of banter and I wasn't doing any workarounds.

I used a save about 25 hours in. I've never checked off any journal or codex entries and I started out in the Exalted Plains (a region where I had experienced a distinct lack of banter). The save was created in November, so with version 1.1 I think. I've since updated to 1.3. Sorry, this is extremely long because I was writing this parallel to testing things:

 

When zoning in, the timer started at 50 seconds. At about 35 seconds, it suddenly sprang back to 600. Strange, but there is a second (very short) timer at work when loading into maps, so maybe that's what it was.

I ran around the Exalted Plains for a while, and this is what I found (I want to add that this is sooo tedious because the timer is so long. Is there a way to shorten it?):

 

Combat did not reset the timer, and neither did it pause it. It continued to tick down. If the timer counted down to 0 during combat, it paused. After the combat was over, banter triggered and the timer started new.

Scripted remarks (I went to the dalish camp for the first time, which completed the related quest - Dorian commented "Oh look we found the elves") did not reset the timer either, it continued to count down.

Being near enemies did not reset nor pause the timer.

Triggering dialogue (the one where you can opt in or walk away) did not reset the timer.

Starting dialogue did likewise not reset the timer.

Triggering the Requisiton Officer ("Inquisitor") did not reset the timer.

Changing the party (via the thingie in your camp) did not rest the timer. Neither did resting at camps or riding on a horse.

 

However, when I was in a dialogue when the timer ticked down to 0 instead of triggering banter or pausing the timer, a second, shorter timer started (100s in one case). When this ticked down and I was still in dialogue, the long banter timer restarted. I got no banter, even though the timer had ticked down in between.

The same happens when on a horse - the timer ticks down and is replaced with a shorter one (this time 300s). When getting off the horse during this timer, banter triggers immediately, while this second timer continued to tick down. After this ticks down to zero, the banter timer starts again.

 

After I tested the behaviour when travelling between regions I started to get really long banter timers of 800 seconds, so I used the Num1 trigger to reset the timer until I got shorter ones (~600s). I don't know if this changed the following behaviour, but I want to mention it just in case:

 

When near enemies (not engaged but a red dot on the minimap) the banter timer continued to tick down. When it reached 0 it paused, just as it would when in combat. Then the second short timer started (100s again). When going away from enemies (no red dot nor arrows on the minimap) in this time frame banter triggered. I bet that if you were still near enemies when the second timer runs out, the banter timer would start again and you wouldn't get any banter (as with the dialogue and horse situation). I think this explains the problems with banter on the Exalted Plains - there are a lot of roaming enemies (wolfs/demons especially) I usually avoid and leave alive because they are annoying to kill.

 

Basically, it seemed to works like this: the banter timer ticks down regardless of what's happening around you (unless your game is paused/you are fast travelling inside the zone - then it pauses). If the banter timer reaches zero while you are in a situation flagged as inappropriate for banter (being near enemies, in dialogue, on the horse), a second, shorter timer starts ticking down. If you resolve the situation within this time frame (get away from enemies, back out of the dialogue, dismount), banter triggers immediately. If you don't do this within this time frame, you miss your chance and the banter timer starts again. The only exception to this is combat - there is no second, shorter timer triggered. Instead, the banter timer is paused. If you go out of combat, banter triggers every time, regardless of how long the combat lasted.

 

ETA: I went back to this and when I used the Num1 to trigger banter when mounted, I actually DID get banter after dismounting even when I only dismounted after the shorter timer had run down. The timer was visibly paused and triggered banter on dismounting.

This is driving me crazy.

 

I can see how people who don't use the horse or don't remain in dialogues long, might have considerably more banter this way? Or if you clear the map and don't leave any enemies alive. Combat seems to be the only situation where you can safely miss the banter trigger - it will trigger afterwards. If this is correct, then you'd get the most banter if you a) are in combat often (because it's the only situation where the banter timer never gets skipped), b ) skip through dialogues quickly, c) stay in one region for long periods of time (because the timer resets everytime you reload) and d) kill everything on the map. Hm. This behaviour doesn't make much sense to me, honestly. Why isn't the timer paused everytime but only in combat?

 

It didn't work consistently (I couldn't get the dialogue to behave like this again and dismounting in time would sometimes not trigger the banter), so I suspect that there is something not working as it should or my results aren't quite right.

I also should try this in different regions, but testing stuff like this is so incredibly tiring...

 

It's strange that my findings are so different. I didn't do anything special, just had the CE running in the background (I used windowed mode to be able to have the game in the foreground while watching the timer).

Basically, nothing restarted the banter timer except when it counted down to 0 by itself, or when travelling to another region/loading. If fast travelling inside the same zone, the timer paused until I was back in the game, then continued to tick down. It did not restart.

 

Now, why does DarkAmaranth's timer break (restart) and mine doesn't? Did we misunderstand each other (I'm not a native speaker - apologies in advance)? Did I do something wrong?


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#1602
DarkAmaranth1966

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Different OS? Different Patch, having the English Voice over pack or not? Even a different table in CE could be the difference. Deluxe vs. standard? Different race or gender of inquisitor? Different party members? Different CPU - does having more cores let it reset more often than pause, does a faster or slower CPU and GPU matter? RAM, doe sit reset if there is excess RAM and pause if RAM in near full?

 

So many things tied together in this engine, until we figure it out, or Frostbite explains this thing to us, we have to guess and use trial and error to see what is going on and why the game behaves differently on different systems, in areas it shouldn't, in my mind, behave differently.

 

The game is doing the same on quests. Some players are having them bug out entirely, missing NPCs, not marking as complete even if they are, etc... while others are not having those issues. I know it isn't the case but, right now this game is looking like it has a mind of its own and, it changes its mind on different systems, with different play styles, different orders of doing things, etc....

 

And if this thing is THAT AI - maker help us all, we'll never figure it out, and neither will the devs.


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#1603
Silith

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I guess in this case we have effectively proven that there IS a bug, because my game seems to behave as it should, whereas yours doesn't.

Not that this helps any because we knew that before.

Did you try if any of the workarounds made a difference for you and got the timer to behave properly?

 

However I don't think that the system does make much of a difference because there are people with the "bug" on the consoles as well.



#1604
silksieve

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Also want to remind everyone that there is supposed to be an element of randomness (per the devs) on banter firing; that is, even when the timer counts down to 0, the system flips a coin to see if banter will actually trigger, so you may or may not get banter when the timer hits 0.  (Although patch 1.03 is supposed to increase the probability of banter happening when the timer hits 0.)



#1605
Silith

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Also want to remind everyone that there is supposed to be an element of randomness (per the devs) on banter firing; that is, even when the timer counts down to 0, the system flips a coin to see if banter will actually trigger, so you may or may not get banter when the timer hits 0.  (Although patch 1.03 is supposed to increase the probability of banter happening when the timer hits 0.)

Are you referring to this part?

"On average, you have an opportunity to hear banter every 10-15 minutes. But the frequency is largely left up to chance. It’s a lot like flips of a coin. Just because you flipped heads this time, or the previous five times, doesn’t mean you’ll flip tails next. Because of this, it’s perfectly normal to hear more or less banter at different points in the game."

I'm pretty sure that this only relates to the randomness of the banter timer - it is random in that the value of the timer is a random number between (what I have seen) 500 and 800, plus the second, shorter random timer (100-300s in my experience). I haven't had it happen that the banter didn't trigger when it counted down to zero - except for the circumstances I explained above. Of course I don't have a big test pool (?) since it takes so long to wait for banter, but everything else doesn't seem plausible to me. I highly doubt that it means that there is a chance for no banter when the timer hits zero - that would effectively mean no banter for 30 minutes and that would be really, really low.

Of course, only the devs know. *shrug*



#1606
silksieve

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That's how I read it, although I could be wrong.  I believe DarkAmaranth also observed that sometimes banter didn't fire when the timer hit zero? (when it was in eligible conditions.)



#1607
Olwaye

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Patch 5 announced, BW is looking for beta tester.

 

http://blog.bioware....black-emporium/

 

Nothing on Banter so far, wait and see I guess :(


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#1608
Efvie

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I guess in this case we have effectively proven that there IS a bug, because my game seems to behave as it should, whereas yours doesn't.

Not that this helps any because we knew that before.

Did you try if any of the workarounds made a difference for you and got the timer to behave properly?

 

However I don't think that the system does make much of a difference because there are people with the "bug" on the consoles as well.

 

Precisely. I saw your reply on the previous page and was going to respond to that, but essentially we do have ample empirical evidence that it is not working in the same manner for everybody. Now we might have concrete evidence, too, which is good… but as a developer myself, it’s been obvious that there’s something more at work than mere perception or bad luck.

 

…And beyond that, it’s still a pretty bad mechanism.

 

 

Someone else commented in a similar vein that the devs and testers can’t find anything wrong because they just stand around, but I don’t think that’s the case. Many, if not most, players seem to have banter consistent enough that it does not bother them. Consensus seems to be that when things are working correctly, somebody says something about something every 10–15 minutes.

 

Everyone is playing this game in roughly the same manner: going through areas, fighting things, etc.



#1609
DarkAmaranth1966

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The problem is some days it works that way, some days you can play for hours in silence, it's as if it randomly decides it's no banter day. Sometimes banter is fine for an hour, then stops, sometimes it doesn't start for two hours, then it's fine and, for some it simply never happens at all. Random is all well and good but, there is something making it behave differently on different systems and, from load to load on the same system.

 

Maybe race, I get better banter with a Qunari than with an elf inquisitor, and better with Cole than Varric in the party. With Solas and Iron Bull, it gets repetitive fast and, I know that isn't all they have, CE let me hear more than the two repeating convos with them.

 

Even with CE always on, it happens a lot but, some loads there is less banter, mostly repeating environmental remarks so, is there a random mechanism that decides what banter file or portion there of to load when the game loads, or you load into an area with your party? Is that what needs removes so that all possible banter for that party loads when you load in?



#1610
Nayana_Jaz

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I have the feeling, I always had more banter with a human instead of an elf or qunari (never played a dwarf in DA:I)



#1611
Ghostsaxon

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Wanted to add .just completed a 40 hr playthrough female elf . Using CE banter mod .with it checked to fire banter constantly.

I heard roughly 4.5 hrs of banter while questing.

This is more than i have heard in my 900hrs of previous playthroughs by far. AND I LOVED IT.

This is how the game should be soneone always talking.. it was great.

And honestly breathed some life into the game.

Some might be happy with 10 to 15 min.
But banter or enviromental comments every 30 seconds was awsome.

Hearing every companions reaction to my relationship was a first.

Dorian trist with bull a first in 900hrs.

I cant see how anyone can say the system is working as intended.

Just thought i would share
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#1612
DarkAmaranth1966

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I agre, it is amazing under CE with banter always on. So much to hear, and, even when it repeats, that beats silence. And there are a ton of laughs to be had. I love the whole questions thing with Dorian and Cole, the chess game with Solas and Iron Bull, the near lovers spat with blackwall and Cassandra, Viv complimenting Cass, Varrics remarks, all of it is great, just need to hear more but CE takes care of it.


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#1613
Tsunami Chef

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Just letting people know, for me at least the CE is in fact using Romance banter. I just got the "inquisibutt" banter with Cassandra/Bull using the trigger.

 

Can't thank the person who created this enough...This mod gave me more playtime enjoyment then probably most DLC's will. It's so important to not only know how your companions interact with you, but to get an image of how they interact with each other and the world. You learn so much about characters seeing how they interact through banter.


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#1614
AstroCat

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I wonder if patch 5 will address the banter issue?



#1615
Paragonslustre

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^^ I sincerely hope so.  The deadly silence is killing me.


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#1616
RVallant

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Still not fixed? Typical.



#1617
Sola Gon_

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The CheatEngine trick is not working for me. I see the counter running down and I wait till it reaches zero; then the counter just goes up to a random number but no banter. If I tap NUM1, the counter sets to zero, but again nothing happens. I checked this a few times in Crestwood, running around or standing. Setting the counter to zero has no effect on my side. There is something broken in the game code.

 

Blame you BW/EA, for completely ignoring this banter bug. It seems this bug has also affected customer management. My game fun counter reaches zero, but only thing I get from you is ... Silence. Your Customer Management Banter System is broken too.



#1618
DAOnut

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I love the CE banter key. Sometimes I am searching on a mini quest and don't mind the quiet. Sometime I want to break the silence and I spam the banter key. It's awesome!

#1619
DarkAmaranth1966

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The CheatEngine trick is not working for me. I see the counter running down and I wait till it reaches zero; then the counter just goes up to a random number but no banter. If I tap NUM1, the counter sets to zero, but again nothing happens. I checked this a few times in Crestwood, running around or standing. Setting the counter to zero has no effect on my side. There is something broken in the game code.

 

Blame you BW/EA, for completely ignoring this banter bug. It seems this bug has also affected customer management. My game fun counter reaches zero, but only thing I get from you is ... Silence. Your Customer Management Banter System is broken too.

and that's the crux of the problem, it works for most, but here's one that even CE can't make the banter fire. Turn on subtitles and see if it is firing but you can't hear it. Might be more going on here than banter working or not, it may be firing the banter but not the associated audio.



#1620
Sola Gon_

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and that's the crux of the problem, it works for most, but here's one that even CE can't make the banter fire. Turn on subtitles and see if it is firing but you can't hear it. Might be more going on here than banter working or not, it may be firing the banter but not the associated audio.

 

I checked with subtitles turned on, nothing. Only thing I can hear and see the subtitles is the game self triggered environmental banter, but that's it. I can't force any banter to trigger.



#1621
Ending

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Praying for Patch 5 to fix banter :]

Apart from that, it's looking crazy.


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#1622
Ghostsaxon

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I can say that even with the CE Banter Mod,  you get no Banter in western approach,, its a dead zone

 

I wonder if they intended that way??


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#1623
DarkAmaranth1966

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Yes, WA is a dead zone for banter, intentional or not, there is no banter there beyond a couple of environmental comments. Even with CE, you get one about the dragon form either Varric or Iron Bull and, one form Iron Bull about sand getting in everything near the keep, that's all I've manage to get out of anyone there.



#1624
BlueSmoke99

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I'm on PS4.  Has anyone tried deleting all game data and re-installing?  If so, does that help?  I feel like this problem overall has gotten worse with time, but maybe I've just become more aware of it.



#1625
RangedPuppet

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Yes, WA is a dead zone for banter, intentional or not, there is no banter there beyond a couple of environmental comments. Even with CE, you get one about the dragon form either Varric or Iron Bull and, one form Iron Bull about sand getting in everything near the keep, that's all I've manage to get out of anyone there.

 

Well this is just nuts-- I had banter in WA, actual banter and not the environmental comments. I had the CE on but couldn't get the banter to trigger that way but almost fell off my chair when Sera and Dorian started to chat about arrows and Dorian's ass. And it happened another 4 times more there. In all my paythroughs I never had banter in WA.

 

I have played round 7 playthroughs and I had just ONE where the banter was working normally, as in that who ever I had with were really chatty, talking every 6-10mins. Then patch 2 came along and only workarounds were helping, patch 4 silence.

 

The CE solution has been a life saver! I didn't notice but I was stressing about banter all the time before as I was playing, always chasing that one playthrough that was perfect (the 3rd play) and now I don't have to stress. Relaxed gaming, taking my time with the slower exp mod because even on nightmare you get over levelled and just really enjoying myself so thank you! :)