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[MadMaximoff]

Theres plenty of reason for turning "evil" in DAI.

You have the status of a holy savior (herald of Andraste), you have an army stronger than anyone else and there is chaos everywhere. You can easily see yourself as the only one capable of bringing order to the world. So, one of the most probable ending should be you becoming (or trying to) dictator/emperor of the world. This was what I was aiming for since I realized what the game was about, and I was severely disappointed that I couldnt choose this path.

I return to the "Technically you can be evil" stance.

Order and Law are your Chief weapons, you command the largest Military Force in Thedas outside the Tevinter Imperium.

You can hand pick the next divine to be your puppet, loyal to you and the Inquisition.

You can make examples of those whom oppose you, show forcefulness by marching troups into Capital Cities, Silencing critics with your Assassins and imposing your will across the land by capturing and claiming entire regions complete with their own strong holds.

At the Ball you can sit back and let the Empress get Assassinated to install a false Pretender on the Throne of Orlais whom will be in your back pocket.

Re-Enslave the Mages and build your own circle guarded by your own Loyal Templars anyone whom opposes is swiftly delt with.

The Inquisitors "Evil" path is based on the rise of the Holy Roman Emperor, Frederick Barbarossa. Barbarossa in the middle ages sacked the Papal states and had two different popes killed, he was even excommunicated and branded a Heretic, yet his people adored him and his enemies feared him.

Barbarossa is seen by historians as power lusting and controlling, hence why he was determined to control the Papalcy, but he is also seen as a Heroic Figure that routed out corruption and paved the way for Europe to break away from the control of the Church.

Sounding like your Inquisitor yet?

That's because not all Villains are Black & White. Bioware did a phenomenal job of the ruthless path imho you just need to stop expecting a villain path to be Jaffar or Maleficent like and realise they tried to make it as "Realistically Villainous" as possible.

Edit: The War Room Operations should always be read along with what each of your Advisors has to offer for the solution, also read the letters that you receive after.

One operation I had Lelianna send out her Assassins to deal with a few upset mages to quell the possibility of a 2nd mage rebellion, I could have gone with Cullens option of sending a Mage and Templar to smooth things over or Josephines approach of having them imprisoned and sent to Denerim to stand trial. I chose the extremely Ruthless option.

I also have the Antivian Crows in my back pocket while quietly supporting Zevran and purposely misleading the crows.

And I kept a secret path for my troop movements.

All good stuff for an incredibly Ambitious Inquisitor that wishes to control through the Inquistion.

[Fabiano79]

@MadMaximoff I dont agree with you. I really doubt that the same BioWare that made Cory so plain and shallow would act so subtle regarding the Inquisitor. IMO, you are giving to much credit to the writers and trying to see something that just isnt in the game. 

 

But anyway, even if you are right, the game failed to give me the impresion that I was what I wanted to be...and I think that, in the end, is this what matters. I always felt, like the OP said, without the options I wanted to have.

 

Regardless all this, I agree with the OP, its a very good game. When they fix the PC problems, its a 8,5/10 for me too. 

[MadMaximoff]

@MadMaximoff I dont agree with you. I really doubt that the same BioWare that made Cory so plain and shallow would act so subtle regarding the Inquisitor. IMO, you are giving to much credit to the writers and trying to see something that just isnt in the game.

But anyway, even if you are right, the game failed to give me the impresion that I was what I wanted to be...and I think that, in the end, is this what matters. I always felt, like the OP said, without the options I wanted to have.

Regardless all this, I agree with the OP, its a very good game. When they fix the PC problems, its a 8,5/10 for me too.

Did you read any of the Operation briefings/Reports and comments or blindly click them? There's a lot going on in those that really tell the tale of what path your Inquisitor is walking.

[Fabiano79]

Did you read any of the Operation briefings/Reports and comments or blindly click them? There's a lot going on in those that really tell the tale of what path your Inquisitor is walking.

 I read, but its not enough though. I dont feel this trought the game, no new quests or fights with those that hated me, no options to usurp thrones...Im sorry, but a pop up screen in the war table and a small slide in the end is not what I would call engaging or exciting. 

 

My guess is that BioWare is now victim of the great system they created to make possible import your experience to the next edition of the game. There could be not an evil inquisitor because that would make Dragon Age IV impossible.

[Abaddon_86]

Theres plenty of reason for turning "evil" in DAI. 

 

You have the status of a holy savior (herald of Andraste), you have an army stronger than anyone else and there is chaos everywhere. You can easily see yourself as the only one capable of bringing order to the world. So, one of the most probable ending should be you becoming (or trying to) dictator/emperor of the world. This was what I was aiming for since I realized what the game was about, and I was severely disappointed that I couldnt choose this path.

 

 

Yeah, spot on. I was actually always going for the "Of-****ing-course I'm the Herald of Andraste! Believe in me and offer me your sacrifice!"-option and in my head went on to "and now let's see how I can capitalize on all those fools". Or when asked for what would happen to the Inq once all was over, i would always say "Oh, we're here to stay, you better believe that." And in my head I went "you mad fools, in this time of crisis, i will grap all the power and influence I can and accumulate a demi-god status with ten-thousands of troops to heed my every word. And once all of this Corypheus-stuff is done, nations will obey my command, or they shall perish!"

 

Yeah, wouldn't matter in the end, none of it. As, sadly, Bioware abandoned the option to do anything evil or selfish in their games long ago, except for SWTOR. But even as a super-powerful frikkin Sith-Inquisitor, there are still limits to what I can do (convert stupid Jedi apprentices to my belief for instance, I can merely trick them into not being as Jedi as they used to be *facepalm) as I learned the hard way.

[Arijharn]

Well, it's not like any RPG ever has ever given you complete control of your actions. It's not like Gerault can just say 'F*ck it', and just mope on out of there. It's an impossible dream to have complete customization, expecting one is a fools crusade imo. At the end of the day; there's a specific story that Bioware wants to tell, you as an actor have some freedom in how you want it to pan out, but it's not your responsibility or freedom to make it completely yours.... because it's a story that Bioware wants to tell.

[sylvanaerie]

 

Note: This is not my theory, but it's something I picked up from my SPOILERFILLED thread regarding the ending and what the Dread Wolf is planning to do.

 

''I think new revelations in Dragon Age: Inquisition clear up a lot of the lore. And I think Solas is going after the Maker.

 

It seems that originally there were the creator gods (the Elven Pantheon), and the Old Gods (the Forgotten Ones). The Creator gods had dominion over the Fade, while the Old Gods had the physical realm. If this is true, it means that the Elven All-Father, Elgar'nan, is the figure now associated with the Maker, while Mythal, aka Flemeth, was his bride. We know that the Creators and the Old Gods were at war with one another, and we know that Elgar'nan was a wrathful god, per his name "the god of vengeance" and the story of him throwing the sun down from the sky (which I believe is a possible allusion to the creation of the Darkspawn Taint).

 

Here's what I think happened, long ago. At some point, for some reason, Elgar'Nan (The Maker) created the Darkspawn Taint as a weapon against the Old Gods. The fact that it targets them proves that it's designed against them. We know that the Taint is ancient, far moreso than the Darkspawn, because Red Lyrium is Lyrium corrupted by the Darkspawn Taint, and its presence in the Primordial Thaig shows that it predated the First Blight by a long, long time. However, in creating the Darkspawn Taint, Elgar'Nan was himself corrupted by it. Knowing the dangers of what would happen if the Darkspawn Taint reached Thedas and turned the Old Gods into Archdemons, I believe Fen'Harel took action, duping the Old Gods into imprisonment for their own safety, and sealing Elgar'Nan and most of the rest of the creators in the Golden City (turning it into the Black City, and making it a prison for the gods).

 

This explains several things:

1. Why the city was already blackened when the Magisters set foot in it

2. Why the Elven Pantheon seemingly abandoned the Elves, leading them to flee Arlathan

3. Why the Maker is absent

4. Why the Tevinter statue in the Mage Origin from the first game drops the hint that the Black City is a prison

 

In effect, Fen'Harel saved the world by this act. Mythal was not imprisoned and remained afoot in Thedas, seeing the wisdom in it. Fast forward a ways, and the imprisoned Old God Dumat makes contact with the Tevinter Imperium from his prison. He teaches them Blood Magic, and believing Elgar'Nan still responsible for his imprisonment, advises the Magisters to assault the Gold City (Black City) to exact his revenge against Elgar'Nan. However, as Corypheus says, they arrived to find the city blackened and corrupted, and became the first Darkspawn. They brought the Darkspawn Taint back to Thedas, thereby unleashing the weapon that is the Taint and corrupting Dumat into an Archdemon. And so began the first Blight.

 

What Fen'Harel had hoped to prevent by imprisoning everyone had happened anyway, thanks to the Tevinter Imperium. So after the first Blight had ended, it would make sense that Fen'Harel and Mythal would seek to remove the threat that Tevinter posed. Enter Andraste. I believe Flemeth/Mythal was Andraste. It fits perfectly. Perhaps Andraste was a real person and Mythal possessed her at some point in her campaign, but regardless, Andraste's claim to be being the "Bride of the Maker" is now ironically correct, when you realize that Mythal is the bride of Elgar'Nan. Andraste's campaign against Tevinter significantly weakened Tevinter, as well as eradicated their worship of the Old Gods. Problem solved, for the time being.

 

Ever since them, the Blight has come and gone and Archdemons have risen and fallen, slain by the Grey Wardens. Mythal/Flemeth appears to have spent her time consolidating power (arranging to take Urthemial's soul, for instance). I believe Mythal and Fen'Harel's end-game is to consolidate enough power to enter into the Black City, confront the corrupt Elgar'Nan (The Maker), and purify or destroy him for good, thereby forevermore ending the threat of the Blight. ''

 

I think this may help those that think the plot was bad.

 

 

This was a well thought out and interesting post.  Even if Bioware doesn't go with this version, I really like your take on the matter.

 

As for OP: More character customization to be a complete and utter ass might have been the ticket to fixing this issue, but seriously??? Join Corypheus?  Did you also want to join the Archdemon, become a ghoul and kill everyone in Ferelden?  Did you really expect there to be an option for this?  There isn't one to join the darkspawn and pillage Denerim in Origins either, not for your protagonist anyway.  Even if you say to Duncan (and later Alistair) F* this sh*t, I'm running for the hills, you get reined in pretty fast.  There are some constraints that have to apply to the narrative, no matter how much of an villain you perceive your protagonist to be.  And make no mistake, what you describe isn't an anti-hero it's a villain.  There is nothing even remotely heroic about joining the bad guys in earnest.  To bring them down from within, maybe, but to join them to further your own power---that's a villain outlook.  Or did you also wish for the opportunity to play Rendon Howe in Origins?  

 

If the goal is "Kill X villain and save the world" then joining X villain seems pretty damn counterproductive to that.  I guess they could have included the option where you capitulate to the dude twice your size and then seeing one final cutscene where you agree to help him, then *huge red splatter* followed by "Game Over" screen.

[Oberdada]

 

 

But anyway, even if you are right, the game failed to give me the impresion that I was what I wanted to be...and I think that, in the end, is this what matters

 

I think this is the real issue here.

 

If a game features fully voiced, meaningful and restricted dialogue options, what matters is not how they actually influence the course of the game (which will be railroaded and won't significantly differ anyway) as much as how they make your character look like.

 

From what I've seen, most players tend to act as if in-game situations were for real, try to do their best and satisfy every npc (at least if the writers managed to make them likeable). These players rarely get frustrated as they can recognize themselves in the casually good and mild-mannered default character of most action-rpgs.

Other players (a strong minority, I think) put more distance between them and their characters, as they're more playful/genre savvy and don't want to act exactly as they are expected to. The "non-default" dialogue options (the middle and bottom ones in the bioware dialogue wheel) are meant for them. So as much as the default option must indulge do-gooder tendencies, the latter options should depict unconventional and surprising (anti)heroes.

 

Of course it's impossible to cover all possible options for the player character, so the writers should pick a few distinct archetypes and flesh them out. That was the idea of DA 2, and apparently of DAI when they presented the three different personality types (noble, clever and direct as I recall). The problem is, in my opinion, that the archetypes were poorly chosen in DA 2 and don't differ clearly enough from each other in DAI.

 

I would rather see a classic Han Solo puckish rogue instead of the randomly snarky/clever middle option and above all, replace the direct/brutal option no one ever uses because nobody wants to be a douche, even an aspiring villain. A affable manipulative bastard would be more interesting for example.

[TimXP]

I think I play these types of games very differently from people who get upset about a lack of evil choices. I get that it's a "role-playing game," but since you're not literally sitting with a DM making up an imaginary scenario on the spot, there are always going to be limited choices. That's why I don't see a point in crafting an elaborate story about who my character is in my head ahead of time. I just look at the choices the game presents me and then pick them in the moment (and I never choose the evil/a-hole options when they come up anyway, because they're usually pitched at a brooding 14-year-old's sense of edginess).

 

That way I get to see the story as the game's creators intended it and I never have to worry that my super-badass black trenchcoat-wearing anti-Andrastian uber-mage who hates everyone and everything will be prevented from achieving his life's ambition of riding on the back of an Archdemon as he sets the entire world on fire.

[Kel Eligor]

I liked Corypheus as a villain, or at the very least the idea of him. His backstory is rife with myth - he's a magister of old with access to ancient Tevinter magic. Just thinking about the knowledge he holds is mind boggling. It's just sad that we never end up talking to him or interacting with him beyond a limited number of confrontations. It's what I enjoyed about the Mass Effect villains; they didn't shy from making you see their point of view and confronting the hero in dialog to make them see how they were on the right, true path. Saren and the Illusive Man were both antagonistic, but had their reasons believing the power of the Reapers could be harnessed and controlled, or even that they could infiltrate their ranks and destroy them from within. Even Harbinger had a constant presence through Mass Effect 2 that - while pulling the strings - was always fighting you on the battlefield. It made Harbinger a tangible, evil force that you could affront. Corypheus is a rather absentee figure compared to all of them, which makes it seem as though he never had his time to shine. 

 

I really, really hope Bioware does something akin to Leviathan where we get to explore a lot more of the villain's origins and interact with him. Imagine a quest where the Inquisitor learns how to control the Anchor even further, goes into the fade to find traces of the other magisters of Old. So many opportunities for interesting story telling! 

[MadMaximoff]

So yep, just thought I'd throw this here, it seems a lot of folk unhappy have a Headcanon like this for the Inquisitor and the Warden:

 

Maleficient = The Inquisitor

 

Prince Phillip = The Warden

 

Fairies = Wardens Companions.

 

[Draining Dragon]

Just to point out, the idea of just "dissolving" a religion like the Chantry is absurd. If the Pope just said "I'm dissolving the Christian Church", people would laugh at him and then keep doing what they're doing.

In Thedas, the people would probably burn you at the stake and then keep doing what they're doing.

[Sailliak]

I've never felt before like I was walking on eggshells with every dialogue choice I made in previous bioware games.

 

"Yes, I do like chicken"

 

*Cassandra disapproves*

*Vivienne greatly disapproves*

*Blackwall disapproves*

 

 

[chomesoon74]

I get what the OP is saying. He is wanting something like the end of Neverwinter nights 2 where you can join the King of Shadows and kill your party. I actually did just that. I also became Dark Revan as well.

 

I still liked this game but I do understand the OP point and agree with it.

[SomeoneStoleMyName]

Since so many people only think black and white.

What if the reason my character wants to claim the power of the black city, is because he/she thinks she can do good with it?
Why does everyone automatically assume that players that wants the power of the black city has malevolent intent?

[pengwin21]

I get what the OP is saying. He is wanting something like the end of Neverwinter nights 2 where you can join the King of Shadows and kill your party. I actually did just that. I also became Dark Revan as well.

 

I still liked this game but I do understand the OP point and agree with it.

 

Both the join the King of Shadows ending and the Dark Revan ending were retconned in future games. I don't think Bioware wants to allow choices just to retcon them later (Leliana aside).

[Potatoespotate]

Both the join the King of Shadows ending and the Dark Revan ending were retconned in future games. I don't think Bioware wants to allow choices just to retcon them later (Leliana aside).

 

Dark Revan ending wasn't really retconned, they didn't even have import in the games (If I remember correctly). And Leliana wasn't retconned, she references her death in DA:I, and I'm pretty sure there is an explanation. Bioware isn't saying it didn't happen. And the kill-death animations don't count.

[pengwin21]

Dark Revan ending wasn't really retconned, they didn't even have import in the games (If I remember correctly). And Leliana wasn't retconned, she references her death in DA:I, and I'm pretty sure there is an explanation. Bioware isn't saying it didn't happen. And the kill-death animations don't count.

 

In TOR, Revan is a Light Side male who romanced Bastila. Leliana doesn't have a really clear explanation of what happened, she just says that the Maker didn't think it was her time.

[KaiserShep]

I've never felt before like I was walking on eggshells with every dialogue choice I made in previous bioware games.

 

"Yes, I do like chicken"

 

*Cassandra disapproves*

*Vivienne greatly disapproves*

*Blackwall disapproves*

 

I think that's part of the fun. Overall I'm finding this game to be much more gratifying in how approval or disapproval is gained, especially since I can only judge based on how the NPC's respond to me rather than checking a meter on their character profile.

[The Dwarven Smithy]

Even though I have played multiple times I still didn't feel the immediacy of the threat that was Corypheus. He's a mage who wants to go into the Fade physically to check out a city? Technically the Inquisitor could do that at any point and no one seems to care. He did it once before with tonnes of lyrium and blood magic at his disposal - why did he need the orb?
When did Corypheus bind himself to a dragon? It must have been before he was caught by the Wardens because otherwise Hawke would have killed him and that means a red lyrium riddled dragon's been flying around for over a thousand years.

 

You do have to admit the writing of Flemeth and Solas was great though. I like the idea that you're called the Herald of Andraste and if you drink from the Well of Sorrows you're bound to Flemythal (there are hints that she was Andraste once upon a time).

 

Dragon Age stories have never really been complex as a precedent so I wasn't too let down.
DA:O Kill a dragon
DA2: Kill a crazy lady/some mages or templars
DAI: Kill a mage

[DarkSpiral]

While I can see the OPs point, I feel that it is important that such a thing has never been an option in any of the Dragon Age games.

 

Well, okay, you can side with Meredith.  But I just can't count that, because Meredith isn't supposed to be a world-ending villain.

[sphiggin]

 

Note: This is not my theory, but it's something I picked up from my SPOILERFILLED thread regarding the ending and what the Dread Wolf is planning to do.

 

''I think new revelations in Dragon Age: Inquisition clear up a lot of the lore. And I think Solas is going after the Maker.

 

It seems that originally there were the creator gods (the Elven Pantheon), and the Old Gods (the Forgotten Ones). The Creator gods had dominion over the Fade, while the Old Gods had the physical realm. If this is true, it means that the Elven All-Father, Elgar'nan, is the figure now associated with the Maker, while Mythal, aka Flemeth, was his bride. We know that the Creators and the Old Gods were at war with one another, and we know that Elgar'nan was a wrathful god, per his name "the god of vengeance" and the story of him throwing the sun down from the sky (which I believe is a possible allusion to the creation of the Darkspawn Taint).

 

Here's what I think happened, long ago. At some point, for some reason, Elgar'Nan (The Maker) created the Darkspawn Taint as a weapon against the Old Gods. The fact that it targets them proves that it's designed against them. We know that the Taint is ancient, far moreso than the Darkspawn, because Red Lyrium is Lyrium corrupted by the Darkspawn Taint, and its presence in the Primordial Thaig shows that it predated the First Blight by a long, long time. However, in creating the Darkspawn Taint, Elgar'Nan was himself corrupted by it. Knowing the dangers of what would happen if the Darkspawn Taint reached Thedas and turned the Old Gods into Archdemons, I believe Fen'Harel took action, duping the Old Gods into imprisonment for their own safety, and sealing Elgar'Nan and most of the rest of the creators in the Golden City (turning it into the Black City, and making it a prison for the gods).

 

This explains several things:

1. Why the city was already blackened when the Magisters set foot in it

2. Why the Elven Pantheon seemingly abandoned the Elves, leading them to flee Arlathan

3. Why the Maker is absent

4. Why the Tevinter statue in the Mage Origin from the first game drops the hint that the Black City is a prison

 

In effect, Fen'Harel saved the world by this act. Mythal was not imprisoned and remained afoot in Thedas, seeing the wisdom in it. Fast forward a ways, and the imprisoned Old God Dumat makes contact with the Tevinter Imperium from his prison. He teaches them Blood Magic, and believing Elgar'Nan still responsible for his imprisonment, advises the Magisters to assault the Gold City (Black City) to exact his revenge against Elgar'Nan. However, as Corypheus says, they arrived to find the city blackened and corrupted, and became the first Darkspawn. They brought the Darkspawn Taint back to Thedas, thereby unleashing the weapon that is the Taint and corrupting Dumat into an Archdemon. And so began the first Blight.

 

What Fen'Harel had hoped to prevent by imprisoning everyone had happened anyway, thanks to the Tevinter Imperium. So after the first Blight had ended, it would make sense that Fen'Harel and Mythal would seek to remove the threat that Tevinter posed. Enter Andraste. I believe Flemeth/Mythal was Andraste. It fits perfectly. Perhaps Andraste was a real person and Mythal possessed her at some point in her campaign, but regardless, Andraste's claim to be being the "Bride of the Maker" is now ironically correct, when you realize that Mythal is the bride of Elgar'Nan. Andraste's campaign against Tevinter significantly weakened Tevinter, as well as eradicated their worship of the Old Gods. Problem solved, for the time being.

 

Ever since them, the Blight has come and gone and Archdemons have risen and fallen, slain by the Grey Wardens. Mythal/Flemeth appears to have spent her time consolidating power (arranging to take Urthemial's soul, for instance). I believe Mythal and Fen'Harel's end-game is to consolidate enough power to enter into the Black City, confront the corrupt Elgar'Nan (The Maker), and purify or destroy him for good, thereby forevermore ending the threat of the Blight. ''

 

I think this may help those that think the plot was bad.

 

Awesome. Just perfect awesome!

[Nemis-Roidsavelt]

Whenever I said I was the Herald of andraste I felt like my character totally meant it 110% it didn't feel like I was lieing about it like I wanted to....... I really think their should be an option to remove the sound of my protagonists voice all together. If there is one please let me know.

[MadMaximoff]

Since so many people only think black and white.

What if the reason my character wants to claim the power of the black city, is because he/she thinks she can do good with it?
Why does everyone automatically assume that players that wants the power of the black city has malevolent intent?

 

Then we have "The One Ring" Plot.

 

Claiming an evil power in the hopes to do good with it but only managing to achieve evil/selfishness with it.

 

Blood Magic, Drinking Dragons Blood (after tainting the urn), Diabolism (Avernuses potion) and Drinking from the well are Dragon Ages ways of seizing power that is seen as Unholy and corrupt. In DA: I it's more about the political game, being morally corrupt and power mongering.

 

Personally I'm glad we got the Political/Miltaristic angle with the Inquisitor, it makes a refreshing change.

 

Edit: If you're big on the RP aspect, you should be able to see your Inquisitor as full of good intentions, "For the Greater Good" or pretty much no better than most of the Orlesian court, a liar.

[nightwolf667]

So basically, you want this OP:

 

 

Or this one, which is considered by fans to be the best ending for NWN2. It's also not canon.

 

 

Really though, if you're looking for that kind of storytelling, it's probably best to look to older RPGs or the new crop of Kickstarter titles that have been popping up like Wasteland 2 and others. Fallout New Vegas is also good, I hear, but I haven't completed any playthrough much less an evil one.

 

I do hope Grobnar died. Insufferable character.

 

If you finished it and didn't lose it to Bishop, he got crushed trying to save his golem. Leaped to shield it from falling rocks.