75 réponses à ce sujet

[warden6788]

I'd like to see the black city in game and find out if there's any trace of the maker. or if it's where the elven God's lived.

[TheJediSaint]

Bad news.

[Tielis]

I think the consensus is that it is the prison that Fen'harel locked up the elven creators in.

[Kantr]

He didnt though. So it's more likely the reflection of Arlathan

[AresKeith]

Yea, I still think it was some form of a prison

[KCMeredith]

Whatever it is, I want to stay away from it as far as I can. You'd probably cause something worse than the Blight by touching something

[Tielis]

He didnt though. So it's more likely the reflection of Arlathan

 

Perhaps it is both that and the prison.

[AtreiyaN7]

After finishing DA:I the other day, I am entirely uncertain as what to believe - other than that the elven "gods" seem to be real and that the Golden/Black City really does exist, that Cory was one of the original magisters, and that the Dalish apparently seem to have gotten everything they thought they knew about ancient elves wrong. Honestly, I'm willing to roll with the prison idea at this point. I hope to find out more in the next game if there is one, that's for sure - heh.

[Kantr]

If he stuck them in a prisoner how did Mythal escape? Why would she then wake him?
 

After finishing DA:I the other day, I am entirely uncertain as what to believe - other than that the elven "gods" seem to be real and that the Golden/Black City really does exist, that Cory was one of the original magisters, and that the Dalish apparently seem to have gotten everything they thought they knew about ancient elves wrong. Honestly, I'm willing to roll with the prison idea at this point. I hope to find out more in the next game if there is one, that's for sure - heh.

Well we've always known that the black city exists. It's the only consistent part of the fade

[Tielis]

If he stuck them in a prisoner how did Mythal escape? Why would she then wake him?

 

I think she found a way to escape, or perhaps his guilt led him to release her to find out if she'd changed?  In any case, I think he's going off to free them now.

[Mims]

There's always the possibility that Mythal helped Solas seal the other gods away. She was the protector god, and it according to legend it wouldn't be the first time she had intervened to protect mortals. 

 

Flemeth also claims Mythal was 'murdered'. So, that could have happened before the gods were sealed up. 

 

If the black city is where the elven gods/forgotten ones are locked up, then we deeeeefinitely do not want that prison break to happen. 

[AtreiyaN7]

If he stuck them in a prisoner how did Mythal escape? Why would she then wake him?
 

Well we've always known that the black city exists. It's the only consistent part of the fade

 

Well, I should have specified "exists and really was visited by the Tevinter magisters - for reals." What can I say, I was still skeptical that anyone really went there until the Legacy DLC, which had me start believing just a bit in the whole Maker/Golden City/darkspawn story thanks to Corypheus.

 

And after DA:I, it's like...okay, I totally accept this now - it's not just some weird Fade creation/landmark, it's really real and people actually went there in person (bad idea though it obviously was). Anyhow, I'm definitely interested in finding out what's in there, what its purpose is, and whether or not it's the seat of the Maker.

 

It would, however, be ironic if the Maker turned out to be one of these elven "gods."

[Tielis]

It would, however, be ironic if the Maker turned out to be one of these elven "gods."

 

Well, even the Dalish elves believe in a "maker" since they don't believe that their gods created themselves and the world.  Their gods were always seen as a sort of guide.  At least that's what I've gotten from a very old post made by Mr. Gaider.

 

Then in this game Solas tells us that those gods were really basically just elven magisters.  That's where Tevinter got the idea of how to structure a society, apparently.

 

But, then again, Solas is a proven liar.

[myahele]

I think its actually a fortress\castle that was transported into the fade a long time ago.

I came up with this when Corypheus make skyhold float and tore open the veil. Its something that's not supposed to be there and maybe whatever magic that protected it from the fade's rejection waned.

If you go to the fade you see burnt corpses near eluvians

[ryno113]

Morrigan says if Corypheus were to enter the fade in physical form and sit on the black throne he would become a new god or something to that effect.

 

I don't really know what to take from that.

[Mr.House]

If he stuck them in a prisoner how did Mythal escape? Why would she then wake him?
 

Well we've always known that the black city exists. It's the only consistent part of the fade

Mythal was "killed".

[AtreiyaN7]

Well, even the Dalish elves believe in a "maker" since they don't believe that their gods created themselves and the world.  Their gods were always seen as a sort of guide.  At least that's what I've gotten from a very old post made by Mr. Gaider.

 

Then in this game Solas tells us that those gods were really basically just elven magisters.  That's where Tevinter got the idea of how to structure a society, apparently.

 

But, then again, Solas is a proven liar.

 

I wonder if I'm so tired that I completely missed that explanation by Solas somewhere along the way. Does he say that in cutscene dialogue or in a specific place? I did keep thinking I should've taken him with me to the Well, but I couldn't swap anyone out at that point. I'll probably try that next time. Dorian had a few interesting things to say, though. As for Solas maybe lying, the weird thing is, I still felt he was trustworthy/believable even after the post-credits cutscene - maybe that's just because we got on so well at the beginning of the game and I liked him.

 

EDIT: Also, the way he acted with Cole...I can't really see him as being a bad person, etc.

[warden6788]

I really am liking the black city as a prison I wonder why its still tainted and what tainted it and if it contains a tainted licked away God to protect thedas

[Tielis]

I wonder if I'm so tired that I completely missed that explanation by Solas somewhere along the way. Does he say that in cutscene dialogue or in a specific place? I did keep thinking I should've taken him with me to the Well, but I couldn't swap anyone out at that point. I'll probably try that next time. Dorian had a few interesting things to say, though. As for Solas maybe lying, the weird thing is, I still felt he was trustworthy/believable even after the post-credits cutscene - maybe that's just because we got on so well at the beginning of the game and I liked him.

 

EDIT: Also, the way he acted with Cole...I can't really see him as being a bad person, etc.

 

I'm pretty sure that's what he meant when he spoke about the Vallaslin in the last romance scene, but I could just be misinterpreting it.

[gothicshark]

Well, even the Dalish elves believe in a "maker" since they don't believe that their gods created themselves and the world.  Their gods were always seen as a sort of guide.  At least that's what I've gotten from a very old post made by Mr. Gaider.
 
Then in this game Solas tells us that those gods were really basically just elven magisters.  That's where Tevinter got the idea of how to structure a society, apparently.
 
But, then again, Solas is a proven liar.

 
 
I'll use this as my starting off point, since the lore is sort of up in the air now, but there are some details which seem to stand out more than others. 
 
 
So let's list what we do know. 
 
1st Names of the Elven Gods.

• Elgar'nan: God of Vengeance
• Mythal: the Great Protector ( Flemeth )
• Falon'Din: Friend of the Dead, the Guide
• Dirthamen: Keeper of Secrets
• Andruil: Goddess of the Hunt
• Sylaise: the Hearthkeeper
• June: God of the Craft 
• Ghilan'nain: Mother of the Halla
• Fen'Harel: The Dread Wolf - (Solas)
• Geldauran, Daern'thal, and Anaris: the Forgotten Ones

Twelve Elven gods, who are said to also be Really powerful Immortal Mages Who cross the line between Elf and Spirit. 
 
Now lets look at the Old gods of Ancient  Tevinter.

• Dumat, the Dragon of Silence and the archdemon of the First Blight
• Zazikel, the Dragon of Chaos and the archdemon of the Second Blight
• Toth, the Dragon of Fire and the archdemon of the Third Blight
• Andoral, the Dragon of Slaves and the archdemon of the Fourth Blight
• Urthemiel, the Dragon of Beauty and the archdemon of the Fifth Blight
• Razikale, the Dragon of Mystery
• Lusacan, the Dragon of Night

Each Tevinter God is said to be male and a Dragon. 
 
What we have now is the 'Golden City' of the Maker, the home of the Gods was believed to have been corrupted by the Tevinter Magisters when they crossed into the fade to reach the city, which caused the first blight. We now know this is not necessarily true, and it is possible the corruption happened long before that event. 
 
 
 
What I propose as an idea, based on what was said by Solas while asking about the nature of spirits, the fade, and the veil. 

Spoiler

 
During the time of the Elves there was no veil, the Elves ruled the lands and the fade was apart of the physical world, the Elves were ruled by mighty God like Mages, at some point an Civil war happened, Some gods were killed during this war. To stop the war Fen'Harel tricked the gods to meet in a central important city, he then banished that City by cutting the fade off from the rest of creation thus making the veil. This took most of Fen'Harel's power and he fell a sleep for several ages. 
 
Mythal, one of the gods who died, tricked fate and stayed alive by merging with a willing Human Woman. 
 
The remaining Elven gods found that they could escape the fade by entering in to dreams of the living, in this matter they seemed to enter into Dragon Bodies and became the Gods of the newly emerging Human Civilization. However they were merely Souls controlling Dragons unaware what was happening in the City where their bodies slept. For something in their prison had become corrupted and tainted. Their bodies and the Golden City were now Toxic to life. 
 
Dumat finally figured out how to free his body, by breaching the Veil and entering the Fade Physically, He used his most powerful Magisters to do so, unaware of the trap which became the first blight. When this happened the other 'Old Gods' went into hiding hoping to escape the fate that was sealed for them now. 
 
Fen'Harel, was awakened during the events of Dragon Age Origins, possibly during the Awakening DLC. He was shocked at how far the Elves had dropped, He felt a huge level of regret and set out to destroy the Veil, only he was too weak to do so, he decided to trick  Corypheus in to using the device that made the veil to remove it. Only the plan backfired for all.  Corypheus caused the magics he had built up to go into the Player Character, Fen'Harel lost control of the device, and Mythal in hiding realized the danger posed.

[Medhia_Nox]

The Black City is the place where Sin originates.

 

Not because the Maker says so - but because of the nature of the Fade.

 

Bioware has basically stated that the core nature of sapient entities is corrupt - the elves were corrupt, the humans are corrupt and it's very likely the dwarves were corrupt before everyone (I mean this in very impactful negative ways like the annihilation of civilizations).

 

The city was very likely black when Corypheus arrived... because sapient creatures cannot create a perfect ideal.  It will always be corrupt so long as there are sapient beings to corrupt it.

 

NOTE:  In the same way sapient creatures corrupt spirits.
 

IF the Maker is real - and the story is true - it may have been Golden before he created his second children.  Spirits have no imagination - therefore are unchanging and uncorruptable (by themselves).

 

When the Magisters entered - at the height of hubris... they became the embodiment of sapient corruption.

 

The Darkspawn are: "the destructive nature of sapient beings made manifest".  They are anathema to the Fade because they are an immutable reality - a "Third Child" in a way.   An idea made into reality. 

 

Anyway - everything I wrote is all bullshit... but I think it's totally relevant bullshit.

[AtreiyaN7]

I'm pretty sure that's what he meant when he spoke about the Vallaslin in the last romance scene, but I could just be misinterpreting it.

 

Ah, I see - no wonder. I meant to put Solas on the list for a future romance after hanging out with him, but at this point, I think I'm permanently attached to Blackwall. *facepalm*'

[Tielis]

 
 
I'll use this as my starting off point, since the lore is sort of up in the air now, but there are some details which seem to stand out more than others. 
 
 
So let's list what we do know. 
 
1st Names of the Elven Gods.

• Elgar'nan: God of Vengeance
• Mythal: the Great Protector ( Flemeth )
• Falon'Din: Friend of the Dead, the Guide
• Dirthamen: Keeper of Secrets
• Andruil: Goddess of the Hunt
• Sylaise: the Hearthkeeper
• June: God of the Craft 
• Ghilan'nain: Mother of the Halla
• Fen'Harel: The Dread Wolf - (Solas)
• Geldauran, Daern'thal, and Anaris: the Forgotten Ones

Twelve Elven gods, who are said to also be Really powerful Immortal Mages Who cross the line between Elf and Spirit. 
 
Now lets look at the Old gods of Ancient  Tevinter.

• Dumat, the Dragon of Silence and the archdemon of the First Blight
• Zazikel, the Dragon of Chaos and the archdemon of the Second Blight
• Toth, the Dragon of Fire and the archdemon of the Third Blight
• Andoral, the Dragon of Slaves and the archdemon of the Fourth Blight
• Urthemiel, the Dragon of Beauty and the archdemon of the Fifth Blight
• Razikale, the Dragon of Mystery
• Lusacan, the Dragon of Night

Each Tevinter God is said to be male and a Dragon. 
 
What we have now is the 'Golden City' of the Maker, the home of the Gods was believed to have been corrupted by the Tevinter Magisters when they crossed into the fade to reach the city, which caused the first blight. We now know this is not necessarily true, and it is possible the corruption happened long before that event. 
 
 
 
What I propose as an idea, based on what was said by Solas while asking about the nature of spirits, the fade, and the veil. 

Spoiler

 
During the time of the Elves there was no veil, the Elves ruled the lands and the fade was apart of the physical world, the Elves were ruled by mighty God like Mages, at some point an Civil war happened, Some gods were killed during this war. To stop the war Fen'Harel tricked the gods to meet in a central important city, he then banished that City by cutting the fade off from the rest of creation thus making the veil. This took most of Fen'Harel's power and he fell a sleep for several ages. 
 
Mythal, one of the gods who died, tricked fate and stayed alive by merging with a willing Human Woman. 
 
The remaining Elven gods found that they could escape the fade by entering in to dreams of the living, in this matter they seemed to enter into Dragon Bodies and became the Gods of the newly emerging Human Civilization. However they were merely Souls controlling Dragons unaware what was happening in the City where their bodies slept. For something in their prison had become corrupted and tainted. Their bodies and the Golden City were now Toxic to life. 
 
Dumat finally figured out how to free his body, by breaching the Veil and entering the Fade Physically, He used his most powerful Magisters to do so, unaware of the trap which became the first blight. When this happened the other 'Old Gods' went into hiding hoping to escape the fate that was sealed for them now. 
 
Fen'Harel, was awakened during the events of Dragon Age Origins, possibly during the Awakening DLC. He was shocked at how far the Elves had dropped, He felt a huge level of regret and set out to destroy the Veil, only he was too weak to do so, he decided to trick  Corypheus in to using the device that made the veil to remove it. Only the plan backfired for all.  Corypheus caused the magics he had built up to go into the Player Character, Fen'Harel lost control of the device, and Mythal in hiding realized the danger posed.

 

 

Very interesting theory!  Here's what I think what happened.

 

Cole talks to Solas about a war in the Fade based on mortal issues.  I think the elven magister-gods were warring with the Forgotten Ones, otherwise known as the Old Gods, both in the Fade and out, and causing a lot of suffering.

 

Fen'harel got fed up with it and decided he had to do something, so he trapped the magister-gods in the black city, which is basically another place the eluvians lead to, a place between this world and the Fade, but visible in the Fade.

 

The Old Gods were supposed to be cast out and trapped underground, right?  Well, maybe Fen'harel created the darkspawn taint to control them into being trapped underground.

 

So a few millennia pass and both sides have worked around their plight, drawing up both humans and elves into their machinations from their prisons.

[Tielis]

Ah, I see - no wonder. I meant to put Solas on the list for a future romance after hanging out with him, but at this point, I think I'm permanently attached to Blackwall. *facepalm*'

 

I am jealous of anyone who has not experienced the Solas romance.  Seriously.  My heart.

[Andreas Amell]

The Phantom Zone theory is pretty popular. But if souls do pass through it before moving beyond then maybe it's a type of purgatory. The Black City might just be where all the corrupt living souls gathered until it grew too big. I don't know how Bioware intends to explain dragons and the Old Gods, but perhaprs Dumat wanted to purge the Fade of the corruption and believed sending the magisters in there was a solution.