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what do you think the black city is


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#26
ryno113

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If you listen to Cole and Solas 'banter' and you romanced Solas. Cole says 'They sleep, masked in a mirror, hiding, hurting and to wake them *gasps* where did it go?'

 

Gaider said some of Coles banter is actually spoilers on twitter. I'd wager the elven gods prison/place where they are sleeping has everything to do with the eluvian mirrors. It's why I'm not so convinced of the black city being the prison for the elven gods or forgotten ones. Solas also apologises to Cole and tells him it is a pain he can never heal.



#27
Tielis

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If you listen to Cole and Solas 'banter' and you romanced Solas. Cole says 'They sleep, masked in a mirror, hiding, hurting and to wake them *gasps* where did it go?'

 

Gaider said some of Coles banter is actually spoilers on twitter. I'd wager the elven gods prison/place where they are sleeping has everything to do with the eluvian mirrors. It's why I'm not so convinced of the black city being the prison for the elven gods or forgotten ones. Solas also apologises to Solas and tells him it is a pain he can never heal.

 

Yes, my theory is that there is an eluvian that connects to the Black City prison.  Tamlen saw it in the first eluvian.



#28
AtreiyaN7

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I am jealous of anyone who has not experienced the Solas romance.  Seriously.  My heart.

 

You might change your mind after the Blackwall romance - I know about the Solas situation since I semi-lurk in the Solas thread (I like him!), but Blackwall...well, let's just say that even if you chose him, you'd be in for a fair amount of emotional ups and downs, heh.
 

 

 
 
I'll use this as my starting off point, since the lore is sort of up in the air now, but there are some details which seem to stand out more than others. 
 
 
So let's list what we do know. 
 
1st Names of the Elven Gods.

  • Elgar'nan: God of Vengeance
  • Mythal: the Great Protector ( Flemeth )
  • Falon'Din: Friend of the Dead, the Guide
  • Dirthamen: Keeper of Secrets
  • Andruil: Goddess of the Hunt
  • Sylaise: the Hearthkeeper
  • June: God of the Craft 
  • Ghilan'nain: Mother of the Halla
  • Fen'Harel: The Dread Wolf - (Solas)
  • Geldauran, Daern'thal, and Anaris: the Forgotten Ones
Twelve Elven gods, who are said to also be Really powerful Immortal Mages Who cross the line between Elf and Spirit. 
 
Now lets look at the Old gods of Ancient  Tevinter.
  • Dumat, the Dragon of Silence and the archdemon of the First Blight
  • Zazikel, the Dragon of Chaos and the archdemon of the Second Blight
  • Toth, the Dragon of Fire and the archdemon of the Third Blight
  • Andoral, the Dragon of Slaves and the archdemon of the Fourth Blight
  • Urthemiel, the Dragon of Beauty and the archdemon of the Fifth Blight
  • Razikale, the Dragon of Mystery
  • Lusacan, the Dragon of Night
Each Tevinter God is said to be male and a Dragon. 
 
What we have now is the 'Golden City' of the Maker, the home of the Gods was believed to have been corrupted by the Tevinter Magisters when they crossed into the fade to reach the city, which caused the first blight. We now know this is not necessarily true, and it is possible the corruption happened long before that event. 
 
 
 
What I propose as an idea, based on what was said by Solas while asking about the nature of spirits, the fade, and the veil. 
Spoiler

 

 

I am curious about the whole deal is with untainted lyrium, red lyrium, and the Old Golds/magisters/whoever else is still kicking around after a thousand years (or more). Hmm, I will elaborate below because I started thinking about what it might mean if the Black City really is a prison (with prisoners still inside).

 

Spoiler

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#29
Kantr

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I think its actually a fortress\castle that was transported into the fade a long time ago.

I came up with this when Corypheus make skyhold float and tore open the veil. Its something that's not supposed to be there and maybe whatever magic that protected it from the fade's rejection waned.

If you go to the fade you see burnt corpses near eluvians

That wasnt skyhold. It was haven. (I think?)



#30
Kantr

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If you listen to Cole and Solas 'banter' and you romanced Solas. Cole says 'They sleep, masked in a mirror, hiding, hurting and to wake them *gasps* where did it go?'

 

Gaider said some of Coles banter is actually spoilers on twitter. I'd wager the elven gods prison/place where they are sleeping has everything to do with the eluvian mirrors. It's why I'm not so convinced of the black city being the prison for the elven gods or forgotten ones. Solas also apologises to Solas and tells him it is a pain he can never heal.

Although some of his greeting banter is taken from popular culture :)



#31
Tielis

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You might change your mind after the Blackwall romance - I know about the Solas situation since I semi-lurk in the Solas thread (I like him!), but Blackwall...well, let's just say that even if you chose him, you'd be in for a fair amount of emotional ups and downs, heh.
 

 

 

I am curious about the whole deal is with untainted lyrium, red lyrium, and the Old Golds/magisters/whoever else is still kicking around after a thousand years (or more). Hmm, I will elaborate below because I started thinking about what it might mean if the Black City really is a prison (with prisoners still inside).

 

Spoiler

 

At least Blackwall romancers get a chance at a happy ending.  Knowing that being with Solas was doomed from the start and there's nothing we can do about it is just...  ugh.  But I won't get into that again here.

 

I've been thinking more about Solas' conversations with the romanced Inquisitor and with Cole, and now I've come to the conclusion that Fen'harel created the Veil.  He speaks about the world without the Veil and says, "That is what was lost."

 

So he trapped the Creators in the Fade with the Veil, and somehow trapped the Forgotton Ones/Old Gods underground.  The problem is, that solution wasn't perfect by a long shot.  The ones in the Fade still reach out for help by forcing possession, and the ones underground use the taint to try to get the darkspawn to dig them out.  Lyrium is a means to that end, a cry for help, tainted or not depending on which group it comes from.

 

I think this is why he can't deal with being with Lavellan.  He gave up everything and everyone he'd ever known, and forced his will on the world, albeit for the greater good.  I'm sure he had to completely shut down all of his emotions to do that.  Cole says, "If she is real, then everything must be real."  Lavellan reminds him of his regrets, and makes him think that possibly there could have been another way, that maybe there could still be another way.

 

But he chooses to shut down again and stay to his original course.  I said before that I thought he is going off to try to free the Creators, but I've changed my mind.  I think he's going off to try to find a way to shore up his prison walls.


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#32
Meraxes

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At the moment I'm pretty into the 'dark city is a prison for the elven gods (or whatever they are)' theory. It just seems set up that way.

 

It would make sense. Solas (Fen'Harel) locks away the warring elven gods and old tevinter gods in the black city and underground respectively to seperate them. And then also locks the taint up with the elven gods so no mortals are going to be infected.

 

The magisters enters the black city and gets themselves infected. They probably don't get far enough to stumble into any of the elven gods. Later, they come back tainted and starts (unknowingly?) spreading the taint which leads to the start of the blights.

 

I'm clearly not as good at DA lore as I thought I was, because I probably got everything wrong.



#33
Former_Fiend

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I'd personally like to put off any exploration into the Black City until DA5 at the earliest and have it never happen at all at the latest. 

 

I think some things are too big. Things escalate to a point that you can no longer truly appreciate the stakes. And some mysteries are better left unanswered, because whatever the truth is, it will never live up to what the fans imagined in their heads. 

 

That being said, the writing does seem to be on the wall for this one.



#34
Girtuoklis

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Prison to contain taint, like filth in Secret world.



#35
Pierce Miller

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I'd love to go to the black city! Not for any particular reason just curious *maniacal laughter* :devil:



#36
warden6788

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I wonder what kind of magic created the black city

#37
Hellion Rex

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A prison, one meant to trap something. And the Taint is perhaps the by product or something originating from that trapped thing.

#38
LightningPoodle

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I think the Black City (not called this) was a place in Thedas, possibly Elvhen, that was transported into the Fade by evil people. Elvhen magic, I guess, was the most superior form of magic in the history of Thedas so perhaps it was possible. These Elves, from mistranslated texts, could have been those Evil Elvhen Gods.

 

Now these evil people corrupted the Fade, allowed the spirits to see the worst of mortal kind. These spirits that turned into the demons could have entered the world through the way the elves got in. The ones that dealt with them - The good "Gods", had to go through the door that led into the Fade in order to battle the demons whilst another Elf - Fen'Harel, sealed it in order to stop more from coming through.

 

The good Elves, eventually succeeding in defeating the demons, with no way back ventured further to the Elvhen city, which at this point is "Golden". Not literally, metaphorically, it still holds the beauty of Elvhen craftsmanship and culture. The subsequent battle that ensues attracts more spirits, some aiding the good and some aiding the bad. These spirits try to destroy the mortal city but ultimately fail due to the demons deciding to corrupt it, turning it black.

 

The good Elves have fallen by this point, and have been consumed by the demons. The spirits, noticing that mortals are weak retreat back to where they cannot be found. The bad Elves, surviving the encounter, choose to bargain with the demons in order to return to Thedas and subsequently, bring about it's destruction. The demons agree, and after many centuries manage to send them back. The process of returning them turns them into monsters, which look like Dragons. These dragons are the Old Gods which work together to corrupt the minds of those who now reside in Thedas.

 

Successfully doing this, the magisters that break into the fade, finding it black and sent back via the demons power. The process, being more refined turns them into the first Darkspawn. Then the world continues as we know it.

 

 

 

Sorry about that. I got lost in my own story.

 



#39
celebrei

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I think she found a way to escape, or perhaps his guilt led him to release her to find out if she'd changed?  In any case, I think he's going off to free them now.


I think that, like Fen, she avoided the taint infecting her so she didn't need to be locked-up.

#40
Esteed789

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Just a quick thought about the Flemeth/Sandal thing.  In the Primeval Thaig, there's evidence that dwarves once had a pantheon and magic of their own, and something happened that changed all that.  It stands to reason that if some old dwarven god-thing awoke in a time when something is preventing dwarves from connecting to the Fade/magic, it might cause some severe issues with that god-thing's mind...



#41
Guest_StreetMagic_*

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I think the Black City (not called this) was a place in Thedas, possibly Elvhen, that was transported into the Fade by evil people. Elvhen magic, I guess, was the most superior form of magic in the history of Thedas so perhaps it was possible. These Elves, from mistranslated texts, could have been those Evil Elvhen Gods.

 

Now these evil people corrupted the Fade, allowed the spirits to see the worst of mortal kind. These spirits that turned into the demons could have entered the world through the way the elves got in. The ones that dealt with them - The good "Gods", had to go through the door that led into the Fade in order to battle the demons whilst another Elf - Fen'Harel, sealed it in order to stop more from coming through.

 

The good Elves, eventually succeeding in defeating the demons, with no way back ventured further to the Elvhen city, which at this point is "Golden". Not literally, metaphorically, it still holds the beauty of Elvhen craftsmanship and culture. The subsequent battle that ensues attracts more spirits, some aiding the good and some aiding the bad. These spirits try to destroy the mortal city but ultimately fail due to the demons deciding to corrupt it, turning it black.

 

The good Elves have fallen by this point, and have been consumed by the demons. The spirits, noticing that mortals are weak retreat back to where they cannot be found. The bad Elves, surviving the encounter, choose to bargain with the demons in order to return to Thedas and subsequently, bring about it's destruction. The demons agree, and after many centuries manage to send them back. The process of returning them turns them into monsters, which look like Dragons. These dragons are the Old Gods which work together to corrupt the minds of those who now reside in Thedas.

 

Successfully doing this, the magisters that break into the fade, finding it black and sent back via the demons power. The process, being more refined turns them into the first Darkspawn. Then the world continues as we know it.

 

 

 

Sorry about that. I got lost in my own story.

 

I can't buy all of it, but I do love that you thought it through :D



#42
Sylentmana

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These are all some really amazing and well thought out theories.  I can agree with the Black City being a prison theory.  It does make me wonder where the Maker fits into all of this. Does he actually exist? If not then where did the idea come from? Did Andraste invent it to further her goals or was she deceived by one of the elven gods? I want to know, but as soon as I do it will loose its mysteriousness.



#43
LightningPoodle

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I can't buy all of it, but I do love that you thought it through :D

 

Thank you, like I said, I got lost in my own story, so some things might not add up, though it did in my head.



#44
SomeoneStoleMyName

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Note: Pure speculation

 

The elves had immortality. But after the fade and the real world got separated, what creatures left are immortal? Dark spawn. They regenerate lost limbs and live eternally (age does not affect them). So I think it is safe to say that the dark spawn are now the corrupted version of the old elven immortality.

 

When the world was "whole", the elves had natural immortality. When the real world and the fade were severed, the elves lost their immortality. The source of elven immortality is the power in the black city now corrupted and causing the blight. It emanates the song. 

Black city may be a prison. What is imprisoned there also retains the immortality in its twisted form, the blight. How does it spread? The dark dreamer lies in the fade, her song reaching out. Touching the world. 

One day she will be free, and again shall the two worlds become one. 
Those who hold the throne can shape the world at will like dreamers can shape the fade. 



 



#45
Baaleos

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Dread Wolf's legend says he tricked the Gods and the 'other' ones (it doesnt call them gods outright, but the legend could be referring to old gods)
He tricked both sides into retreating while he negotiate a peace between them.
But for whatever reason he then locked them away.

The old gods were said to be 'locked' by the maker underground - in a slumber.
The Elvish gods may have went into their own spirit world - which then got locked up.

Dumat however - while asleep, may have set in motion a series of events that he planned in order to awaken himself and his kin - or at the very least awaken himself so he could take over the world, and claim that which dread wolf had denied him before.
He just didnt count on the blight, or maybe he did?
Perhaps the Blight was the only way he could control / lead the darkspawn to his exact location.


Lets not forget that the Golden City - sounds very enticing.
It would be the perfect trap - lure someone/something into it, then slam shut the doors at which point it becomes very dark and black.


All just theory at this point

#46
ryno113

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Note: Pure speculation

 

The elves had immortality. But after the fade and the real world got separated, what creatures left are immortal? Dark spawn. They regenerate lost limbs and live eternally (age does not affect them). So I think it is safe to say that the dark spawn are now the corrupted version of the old elven immortality.

 

When the world was "whole", the elves had natural immortality. When the real world and the fade were severed, the elves lost their immortality. The source of elven immortality is the power in the black city now corrupted and causing the blight. It emanates the song. 

Black city may be a prison. What is imprisoned there also retains the immortality in its twisted form, the blight. How does it spread? The dark dreamer lies in the fade, her song reaching out. Touching the world. 

One day she will be free, and again shall the two worlds become one. 
Those who hold the throne can shape the world at will like dreamers can shape the fade. 

 

 

I read the elves (In DA: world of Thedas) lost their immortality the more they stayed around the first humans so they retreated into their territory to extend their lives this gave the Tevinster Imperium more land to conquer and drove the elves to infighting which led to their demise and the Tevinter Imperium to clean up the leftovers. Also I'm not sure the fade and the 'real world' were ever not seperated by the veil.

 

I would say the darkspawn theory is a good one if Corypheus who was a human magister and now a darkspawn were not also able to regenerate and it seems awfully close to the Tolkien Elven-Orc origin. 

 

Your black city theory seems to be the prevalent one though I don't think any of the Elven gods/Old Gods were actually gods as Solas says. He believes them to be beings of immense power but not gods unless you were to expand the definition of gods to include something else.


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#47
SandiKay0

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I don't think Sandal was talking about Flemeth. I think he was talking about Meredith, I think he heard the red lyrium.

#48
The Hierophant

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The BC is the physical manifestation of the Maker's consciousness. The Magisters were infected by his dirty thoughts.

#49
LOLandStuff

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Maybe the ancient elves tried entering the Golden City just like the Magisters but succeeded and made themselves gods, demigods or whatever they want to be, but left it corrupted.

I think there was an entry about Cory actually being a nice guy if not a bit rigid, but started hearing whispers. What if those were the so called gods manipulating him to open enter the City again because they ran out of power.

Besides, weren't they waring against each other? I'm sure it was all "I'm better than you. My slaving followers have better markings than yours."

Pretty sure it was all stupid pride to brand their elves like cattle. Each group  representing the crazy of each "god".

 

I'm thinking Morrowind Tribunal.



#50
Yermogi

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Now, I haven't finished the game all the way through. Does Solas actually say he sealed the other gods away? Or, since he doesn't think of them in terms of gods, that he sealed the others like him away?