Since a mage has neither the health nor the options for building guard that a warrior might have, are there perks in the KE tree that help compensate for this? I haven't unlocked the specialty for my own mage yet, but I put one point into Vivienne's (the one for Spectral Blade). I noticed she still took a pounding on Nightmare.
Is the best thing to do once you unlock KE for your Inquisitor to simply respec and take advantage of the more defensive skills further along?
Thanks!
It is actually boring playing KE, i just stand near dragons legs and spam Spirit Blade, he hits me my barrier is down, i hit him and my barrier is up. And after 10 minutes he dies and i get to loot his skull.
Mages can build guard through gear, and KE just build barrier on hit...throw in some fire tree skills and you can spam fade cloak as well
It is actually boring playing KE, i just stand near dragons legs and spam Spirit Blade, he hits me my barrier is down, i hit him and my barrier is up. And after 10 minutes he dies and i get to loot his skull.
Only if you play it as a "spirit blade spam". The KE is surely the most versatile build for a mage as you can practically do whatever you want (you are not forced in a role). Nobody forces you to spam a single spell continuously as nobody forces you to stand always in melee; if you do then it is your fault for making the spec boring and not the spec itself being such. KE is boring only if you powerplay. If you roleplay instead it is one of the most fun specializations to get as you can practically do everything you like (you can nuke as you can go in melee: Fade Shield in fact works also with normal attacks and spells, not only with Spirit Blade).
As for the OP: KE is insanely endurable as it has a skill (the aforementioned Fade Shield) that permits to rebuild barrier every time you damage the target.
And I can roleplay a pure fire mage and wonder why 50% of all dragon battles would have been won without my partcipation in the first place.
Holding yourself back should never be an option. And is at stands, Spirit Blade spamming, perhaps couples with Fade Cloak upgrade, is the optimal thing to do in 99% of all situations.
And is at stands, Spirit Blade spamming, perhaps couples with Fade Cloak upgrade, is the optimal thing to do in 99% of all situations.
And why is that so? "Optimal" for what? Do you have a timer so that you must destroy everything in a set amount of seconds elsewhere you lose? You can win easily a fight with KE without always staying in melee and/or spamming SB; I do it all the time in fact. DA:I is a single player experience: you don't have to fight against others in PvP so that you need the best build possible to be competitive. It is the same as it was for Arcane Warrior in DA:O. People called the spec "boring" just because they couldn't do nothing else but attacking with a sword all the time (practically turning the mage class into a warrior one without abilities - and then they wondered why it was boring, bah), as if you are forced to.
It seems to me the same thing it happens with people that always have to pick the "best" choices with conversations, to have the most influence with party members possible elsewhere in their mind they think as they "lost" something. This is not roleplaying and it is naturally boring to do something like this (you never enter in the character, you just simply pick already prescribed - by others - lines as a robot; you practically remove the very primary reason to play a game like this to begin with). It seems like certain people cannot do otherwise if they think something produces "better" results, no matter if that "better" doesn't really exist given the context.
Every class or spec is boring if you powerplay it. Also Rift or Necromancer become boring specs if you spam always the two same spells over and over to do "optimal" damage. Range is hardly a factor so as the type of spell(s) you spam.
It is actually boring playing KE, i just stand near dragons legs and spam Spirit Blade, he hits me my barrier is down, i hit him and my barrier is up. And after 10 minutes he dies and i get to loot his skull.
this is only if you are soloing him, if you are using a party with at least 1 sword and board tank you can safely stand with ranged characters and nuke it with a fire build (if its not a fire dragon) and do much higher dmg than you would if forced to be in melee spamming spiritblade (which you will still do when you need to break barriers or guard)
but I do agree rift mage (and prly necro, havnt tested it much) offers more in combat options due to high variety of synergy with other trees, while knight enchanter mostly does one thing: make you tanky/defensible and bring you into melee.
Because not going to do the optimal thing in any given situation is holding yourself back. And if a player is doing so to have "fun", then there´s some serious design flaw.
In a near perfect solutation of character design and conception, the most fun ways to play your character are identical with those that offer the best for your character, build whise. And no, you can not really argue that. It is pure logic.
but I do agree rift mage (and prly necro, havnt tested it much) offers more in combat options due to high variety of synergy with other trees, while knight enchanter mostly does one thing: make you tanky/defensible and bring you into melee.
At least against trash mobs. Many harder enemies are immune to the CC both the Rift Mage and the Necromance offer, and the Rift Mages faces serious DPS problems when the enemy is reistant to his main form of attack, since the Rift School comes with only one damage spell. The Necromancer can build up serious DPS just by his necro spells and staff attacking.
Spirit reistance is hardly exsitant in this game.
Because not going to do the optimal thing in any given situation is holding yourself back. And if a player is doing so to have "fun", then there´s some serious design flaw.
In a near perfect solutation of character design and conception, the most fun ways to play your character are identical with those that offer the best for your character, build whise. And no, you can not really argue that. It is pure logic.
1) Again, "optimal" doesn't exist in a single player experience based on roleplay. You roleplay a character, you don't powerplay a build as in PvP. It is this that you seem to not understand. In rpgs one of the most fun things to do is, in fact, to create a subpar build made around an absurd roleplay concept (for example a lunatic Monk - with poor wisdom - in D&D rules). There's no design flaw at all in doing this, the flaw is in your approach to the genre. You are obviously playing the game as an action one, only considering what is "optimal" from a purely damage prospective when you are not forced (given the context) to do the most damage possible to win (differently from a PvP context for example).
2) I'm sorry but no This is not a PvP game where the most powerful build is the only one everyone can have to be competitive and hence designers must take this point in consideration and make in powerplay the fun part. In an RPG the most important thing is not powerbuilding but, instead, roleplaying, e.g. the various synergies between spells and skills so that you can do the most diverse builds possible depending the vision of your character, no matter if those combinations are the most powerful or not (because there's no need to have the most powerful build). The most amusing thing of this is, in fact, when an absurd concept in theory then works in an astounding way and a great build is found without either understanding why and something that on paper should not work then works flawlessly.
You can play an RPG also with powerbuild in mind, certainly, but some of the best powerbuilds are always boring given the context because you are forced in a direction and this is completely in antithesis with the primary concept of the genre. Sometimes it can happen that a powerbuild is also fun to play but it is usually an exception instead than a rule. You are actually doing the inverse: you create your character around an already established combination of skills and spells when you should build your skills and spells around a character. In doing so you completely remove the roleplay aspect of the game since there's no role to adhere to (if not the basic one of the class itself).
I roleplay a firemage my self, and gues what, I am fucked everytime a questline guides me towards a dragon (50% of them are fire reistant).
So please, don´t try to lecture me about me being an optimisation - oriented action player.
I am just pissed off by bad game design, and that the strongest mage spec happens to have the most boring play style is one of this design flaws.
Arguing with me won´t change that, I am afraid.
At least against trash mobs. Many harder enemies are immune to the CC both the Rift Mage and the Necromance offer, and the Rift Mages faces serious DPS problems when the enemy is reistant to his main form of attack, since the Rift School comes with only one damage spell. The Necromancer can build up serious DPS just by his necro spells and staff attacking.
Spirit reistance is hardly exsitant in this game.
I really should test out necro, it is indeed a strong weakness the elemental resistances and the one that suffers most from that is fire (frost doesnt really suffer because resistant enemies,like undead, usually resist only the dmg and not the CC effect and thats what we really need from frost, the CC)
but using lightning just because of that?... meh... knight enchanter has spirit blade and rift mage stonefist.
I really wanna use lightning, but I just cant get it to work with minimal synergy with any other tree at least not with the play-style mentality I currently have, need someone to show me a electric based build, his strategies to using them and the hows and whys they work for them (in nightmare difficulty context)
I'm guessing that if I test necromancer and storm I will get better results?
I roleplay a firemage my self, and gues what, I am fucked everytime a questline guides me towards a dragon (50% of them are fire reistant).
So please, don´t try to lecture me about me being an optimisation - oriented action player.
I am just pissed off by bad game design, and that the strongest mage spec happens to have the most boring play style is one of this design flaws.
Arguing with me won´t change that, I am afraid.
The only thing it won't change is the fact that KE is not boring to play in itself. You can win a Dragon with KE without continuosly spamming Spirit Blade. I don't get where do you take this thing that you need SB spamming to be powerful with KE, seriously, because it is not true (actually in many cases spamming SB produces worse results than mixing in AOE spells, especially with KE/Fire).
KE is insanely good no matter if you spam SB or not and if you insist it is not so then you are obviously saying a lie because that's not true at all (hell, you can even play a KE never using SB if you want to and be powerful anyway; naturally it would be as idiotic as spamming always SB but it is just to prove you a point).
I don't know how I can make you understand the simple fact that you don't need to do the maximum damage possible in every circumstance to win in the game or either be extremely powerful. I sincerely don't understand from where you take this concept that "maximum damage = only way to be powerful and/or viable". This is not a PvP, you don't need to to do the maximum damage possible in every situation or elsewhere you are out of the play. Between being powerful and doing maximum damage there's a full world of possibilities in between (to not talk about between maximum damage and being viable to win).
As for you being a firemage and not being able to win a Dragon (and it is not true that most Dragons are fire resistant; there are quite a few that are either weak to it); I highly doubt you only have fire spells but even if it was so you are not alone and you have other 3 party members to fight with. You can win against a Dragon either with you just spamming auto attack if you micromanage a little the other party members. If you roleplay a pure fire mage (wanting only to use fire spells) then a primary trait of a character would be exactly the point that no matter if enemies are resistant to the element s/he doesn't care minimally.
you put one point in in thought what exactly was going to happen the sword does not make you tanky its for attacking.
Only thing that makes KE boring is Fade Shield, it's so strong it breaks the game making you almost immortal unless your spell choice and equipment is poor. I'm playing mine without it and it's pretty fun.
Only thing that makes KE boring is Fade Shield, it's so strong it breaks the game making you almost immortal unless your spell choice and equipment is poor. I'm playing mine without it and it's pretty fun.
True. Fade Shield is really too powerful. Also if this is a single player game I guess Bioware will nerf the skill a little in the future because it is really too powerful for the investment required (I mean: it's very early in the tree and it works with spells and attacks and it doesn't either consume mana - as other similar skills of other classes do - too broken).
If for example the skill required mana consumption (as Shield Wall does to build guard) then it would be already another thing altogether. Actually Bioware could turn FS exactly as SW (not either requiring an existent Barrier but building it) and it would work wonderfully. It would be powerful but not broken since it would have to be used intelligently and not simply make you undamageable with no effort whatsoever (I would actually also change Barrier to not decay automatically but making it a little less durable maybe; this would also help other classes as DW rogues for example). Another similar way would be for example to make FS work only with SB and consuming mana while it does (so that it somewhat forces you to mix the gameplay with spells and staves attacks). Many possibilities and I'm sure Bioware will think of something.
However FS doesn't make KE boring by itself. It just makes you invincible. Two different things (also if I can understand that a lack of challenge for someone can go hand in hand with boring, however the two are not really related in themselves).
Thanks for all the feedback, everyone. Interesting discussion. I don't imagine I would play KE doing nothing but spamming SB...if I had wanted that, I would have played as a warrior. I like playing a caster, and would probably continue, but I like the idea of KE as something that you can turn to when enemies start to close the distance and melee is necessary.
Out of curiosity, I noticed that ALL the specializations require me to find tomes and other materials. Is this something I should actively see, or will it simply present itself in the game naturally as I explore the quests?
Only if you play it as a "spirit blade spam". The KE is surely the most versatile build for a mage as you can practically do whatever you want (you are not forced in a role). Nobody forces you to spam a single spell continuously as nobody forces you to stand always in melee; if you do then it is your fault for making the spec boring and not the spec itself being such. KE is boring only if you powerplay. If you roleplay instead it is one of the most fun specializations to get as you can practically do everything you like (you can nuke as you can go in melee: Fade Shield in fact works also with normal attacks and spells, not only with Spirit Blade).
As for the OP: KE is insanely endurable as it has a skill (the aforementioned Fade Shield) that permits to rebuild barrier every time you damage the target.
This. This. DIS.
When a class is so tough to not need to play optimally to handle any situation then that allows the player to experiment and to have fun, which is the ultimate goal of any single-player game. Technically the Rift Mage and Necro can sort-of do this but they can't make a hash of something and so smoothly turn the tables as a KE can. It's exactly the same situation that the AW had back in DA:O.
I've honestly never understood why someone will grab a class, refuse to play it any other way than absolute min-max and then blame the class for their refusal.
Besides.... A KE can stab stuff in the face if it gets sick of casting spells and vice versa. The Force is strong with this one.
That's basically why I want to go this route. I like versatility. All ranged is no less boring than all melee. At least the KE has options.
That's basically why I want to go this route. I like versatility. All ranged is no less boring than all melee. At least the KE has options.
I like to play my KE like the old shaman in vanilla wow. I have my shock attacks(winters grasp, and immolation if I need it), and I hit with that as Im closing. Get in close and start pounding away. Shock as its becomes available. I leave the AoE to the proper mages though. But I love the class. Going KE/Spirit/Frost creates a killer character. Melee Damage, spell damage, and CC. I may take blizzard eventually, but its doubtful. Now sure if I'll even have enough points, and I would have to remove something else to use it.
I roleplay a firemage my self, and gues what, I am fucked everytime a questline guides me towards a dragon (50% of them are fire reistant).
So please, don´t try to lecture me about me being an optimisation - oriented action player.
I am just pissed off by bad game design, and that the strongest mage spec happens to have the most boring play style is one of this design flaws.
Arguing with me won´t change that, I am afraid.
If you put all your eggs into one basket then that was your problem. Especially fire - so many monsters have fire resistance. You adapt to what the game offers, there's no bad game design in that regard, just bad character choices. There's also a respec so you don't have to be the weakest mage in the game.
You should be getting a little fire, lightning and ice, and if possible some spirit damage too. As well as having different staffs for different elemental resistance enemies. Also barrage will work with whatever element you have on your staff.
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