19 réponses à ce sujet

[OG Swift]

Hello everyone,

 

I would like to ask about your opinion regarding Rogue companions in DA:I? I finally collected whole inner circle of companions and the pallete is regular 3 mages + 3 warriors + 3 rogues.

 

I find mage companions very interesting (Vivianne is arrogant but classy, Dorian again charming but selfcentered and Solas .. okay, Solas' weird) and warrior companions are even better - Bull is much better qunari companion than Stan as he even got some emotions, Cassandra is strict with sense for order and chantry (just my type) and Blackwall is good ol' warden with golden heart.

 

But what the hell is wrong with rogue characters?

 

Fine, there's Varric - veteran I never found interesting with his Bianca. He's got a certain sense for good but I simply don't find him interesting enough to spend my time with him in party. Plus his struggle with Cassandra may be considered fun but I don't see it that way (I see it pretty much in Viviannes perspective - what the hell is his role in this party besides going on Cass' nerves? lol). Also Bianca is unique and upgrading equipment ain't interesting to me so far.

 

Sera had a potential but turned out that she's kinda crazy (not the way I like) and also keep talking crap. Adding vulgarisms to her speaches should probably describe that she's really roguish type from slums but no, not working again. She's also lesbian and her face is weird, nothing funny at all.

 

And now that I obtained Cole I was really disappointed. He's is ... well looks like guy but turned out that he is some kind of spirit or what, partially invisible, moving things around Skyhold etc. He is definately NOT interesting, probably the worst along with Solas. His face and hair combined are looking like a vomiting demon of sloth.

 

Now I am struggling how to manage my party because I am myself mage with spirit tree so I need secondary mage for damage and CC (Dorian - fire or Vivi - Ice), tanking champ (primary Blackwall) and the last spot was always rogue with two daggers. But Varric got his Bianca, Red Jenny is apparently also meant to be archer and so the only option for secondary melee and rogue is Cole - but he is simply terrible. Picking mage was a tradition for me but I don't think playing on nightmare difficulty with 3 ranged champs and with implemented AI in such state as it is is possible. Mages die too quickly when touched and managing three out of four party members is quite tiresome. Also there is need for rogue because of locks are usually hiding sweets.

 

I like sweets (evilgrin).

 

 

What is your opinion about rogues and so?

[steamcamel]

Not sure what you're asking, but from a gameplay point of view, the rogues are only good for ranged combat (when they don't decide to run into aoe to fire their bows at point blank range, that is).

 

The AI is just too dysfunctional to have melee specced, squishy companions, and Dragon Age: Inquisition lacks a proper tactics system like in DAO and DA2.

 

As for their personality, I think they're all well-written, perfectly voiced and interesting characters. If you don't like them, leave them at home or don't recruit them.

[OG Swift]

Not sure what you're asking, but from a gameplay point of view, the rogues are only good for ranged combat. The AI is just too dysfunctional to have melee specced, squishy companions, and we lack a proper tactics system like in DAO and DA2.

 

It's up to everyone how he sees the topic. You can say what you think regarding rogue (for example you enjoy Sera and like her attitude or agree with me that she's not enjoyable character) or you can say your opinion regarding usefulness of rogues in parties and DA:I in overall (which you probably just did) or you can throw anything else what comes up your mind.

 

I agree with you that AI is not working well (as already written before) but I have not experienced melee rogue ai behaviour yet. Too sad if it sucks as well because that would leave me with Bull as last melee saviour.

[Fiachra4d]

Not sure about the melee rouge AI but have you thought about respecing Sera or Varric into Melee? I don't see a reason why you couldn't.

 

Again it is just a suggestion.

[Duelist]

Gameplay wise:

By virtue of Bianca being customizable to have high critical chance, Varric offers the most consistent DPS and with poison he can sunder armour, making life easier for your melee fighters.
I've found that he truly shines in confined spaces where his traps are inescapable and turning the space between your ranged and melee fighters into a minefield.

Sera is all about the dishing up big hits, preferably from on high, and her Tempest spec makes her a real damage dealer.
Flask of Fire in particular allows her to really put the hurt on enemies and makes Thousand Cuts available every 32 seconds.

Cole needs to be babysat but brings Mark of Death to the table and can set up cross class combos with Knockout Bomb.
I actually use him alongside my own assassin and I've found that if you're willing to babysit him then he can help make quick work of bosses.

[Ibn_Shisha]

Well, if it's any comment on rogues, then I have to say I enjoy bringing Varric along because he looks absolutely ****** ridiculous in Warden Scout Armor and the Mask of the Grand Duchess (with metal mustache) that I just crack up any time he comes into view.  I'll have to try and get a good screen cap...

[earymir]

I found I had to babysit Isabela and my double-dagger rogue Hawke in DA2 when above normal difficulty.  It seems similar in DA:I (though perhaps a bit squishier). 

 

Actually I find that I just could not make a usable Iron Bull or Blackwall build without making them identical to Cassandra, for who all intents and purposes was invincible...  When I tried playing with Iron Bull and Cole, LOL.  Potionssssss.  

[Blackstork]

Well, my character (lore wise) preference seems to be quite opposite than yours (My all time pair is Solas and Cole, and i love and like those characters big time, but i like all of them.

Viv: she is right, in many topics, she is just bit too extreme about it and adds to it too much ego and bossy attitude. If you see through it her vision for mages future is most beneficial and will bring least conflict/death to Thedas. 

Sera: she is tough-talker, but she is robin-hood leftist freak girl. Again, if you keep her at bay while value her "little simple things" stuff and "me and simple people first" she is good to have along. She reminds me of Neeshka from NVN2. 

Dorian : he is classy and his attitude and attempt to correct his nation mistakes is admirable.

Cassandra : She is amazing and very loyal.

Blackwall : Also great dude, makes wood carvings and good bro , real man.

Iron Bull: I thought i will like him less, but he is so nice leader , who teaches you to be better one. 

Varric: He is nice chap. Some people really like him.

Cole: I think he is amazing and very complex character, and i did not had such interesting character in rpg game  (only, may be Talking Skull in Planescape : Torment could compete some, but since that was older game, Cole surpass it because of technology used to portray his story/character). He is very positive character. Cassandra grows very fond of him eventually btw.

Solas : he is great wise dude. He likes if you just interested to be the person with whom he can share his experiences. 

 

Mechanics wise any rogue is good. If you have problems with DW rogue you do not play it right. DW rogue need certain micromanagement/controlled play, late bloomer (it is harder class to play at start, but rogues become golden with their specs) , and usually build for party combos.

I always have rogue in my party. NExt playthrough will be Nightmare FF on run with only 3 characters (instead of 4) self limitation and no tactical cam control rule (only direct control, quiz character if alive, other character till quiz revived), and i plan to make it rogue heavy.

Actually on later levels team of Cole + Sera + Varric Melt dragons at nightmare ff on without glimpse of problem, and without need of Quizzie intervention. 

Cole and Sera , Sera and Varric, Cole and Solas (full spirit + abyss pull) mix well wonderfully (tactics wise, Sera have problems with Cole in story/personality). Cole is best party combo man. Noone can provide to your party so much  chained detonators and aoe sleep effects which are easlilly detonated as AOE as well. Nightmaring whole horde of enemies never gets old for me. If you want to play nightmare/panic party i suggest you to try Solas+Cole+Sera or Solas + Cole + Varric. 

My first Ngithmare FF quiz was DW Tempest Rogue, and i enjoyed it very much .

[Jaeger65]

I found I had to babysit Isabela and my double-dagger rogue Hawke in DA2 when above normal difficulty.  It seems similar in DA:I (though perhaps a bit squishier). 
 
Actually I find that I just could not make a usable Iron Bull or Blackwall build without making them identical to Cassandra, for who all intents and purposes was invincible...  When I tried playing with Iron Bull and Cole, LOL.  Potionssssss.

Don't reavers need to be hurting to dish out the pain?

[Yaslana]

In my first PT with a dagger Rouge I had the feeling that Rouges are the best DDs... They need some babysitting but it gets significantly easier when you give them + Guard per Hit weapons. Especially helpful for dagger Rouges.

Actually Cole is the best char to have in your party cause when you listen to his banter you learn much about the other companions.

Sera is a little bit short sighted but other than that she is great amd funny. And what has her liking women to do with her ability as Rouge?

Sadly Varric doesn't talk much for me cuz of banter bug. But damn it he's Varric. He is amazing!

Solas... He is the best ^^ believe me when I say: Listen to him!

All in all I would say, one Rouge per party is good for heavy damage plus one mage for barrier and support and one tank. At least thats how I play.

Who you take as 4th is up to you and the enemy's you'll face.

Dragons f.e... Let Rouges at home and take tanks and a mage with the right element with you.

[BlacJAC74]

I suppose it comes down to reality.  People that annoy me, you may find endearing or funny and vice versa.  I have no issue with Varric and disagree wholeheartedly with your write up concerning him.  Sera, I agree, she gives me a sore head and Cole, I haven't really spent a lot of time talking to him, so I'm not able to pass comment on him as things stand.

[heretica]

Why do you dislike Cole, exactly? He is probably the best character in DA:I... I mean, have you talked to him or you dislike him because of first impressions?

 

Also, he is probably one of the strongest party members when it comes to killing stuff.

[zeypher]

I like cole but he is kind of useless for my dw assassin, so i take varric along with me.

[Chenoah]

Cole tanks in my party. I also love him and Varric in my party. The voice acting is great. I could be biased because I read Asunder but I don't find him bland at all. Sera pisses me off as a rogue because she is always dying running up on enemies like she is a tank. But as far as the rogues go not too bad. Gotta keep them geared is all. 

[Xhaiden]

Sadly, handing the AI melee rogue is like handing a lighter to a monkey.

On Hard its a blowtorch.

On Nightmare its a hand grenade.

 

Melee rogue takes a lot of micromanagement for not a lot of reward to be honest. It relies almost exclusively on avoidance for defence but that means it has trouble being in position to recieve barriers along side a warrior. Its a bit dissappointing given how much control Warrior and Mage have over the battlefield. Both classes are party cornerstones. Rogue you wouldn't really miss that much if you didn't have one but you have to bring one along as an unlock monkey.

[Kuvira]

I always find it frustrating that enemy rouges seem to have much more maneuverability and better battle management than my AI-controlled rogue. Why can't I do that? Those guys dance around like pros, deliver killer backstabs, and stealth off from battle like a boss.

 

My AI rogue is like "You may take my life, but you'll never take my freeeeeeedom"

 

*runs in, daggers flailing*

 

*splat* 

[Feranel]

What I think is funny about Sera is that the Red Jennies are basically the fantasy equivalent of internet hacktivist collectives like Anonymous, and Sera acts pretty much accordingly

[Wolfgrey666]

Hello everyone,

 

I would like to ask about your opinion regarding Rogue companions in DA:I? I finally collected whole inner circle of companions and the pallete is regular 3 mages + 3 warriors + 3 rogues.

 

I find mage companions very interesting (Vivianne is arrogant but classy, Dorian again charming but selfcentered and Solas .. okay, Solas' weird) and warrior companions are even better - Bull is much better qunari companion than Stan as he even got some emotions, Cassandra is strict with sense for order and chantry (just my type) and Blackwall is good ol' warden with golden heart.

 

But what the hell is wrong with rogue characters?

 

Fine, there's Varric - veteran I never found interesting with his Bianca. He's got a certain sense for good but I simply don't find him interesting enough to spend my time with him in party. Plus his struggle with Cassandra may be considered fun but I don't see it that way (I see it pretty much in Viviannes perspective - what the hell is his role in this party besides going on Cass' nerves? lol). Also Bianca is unique and upgrading equipment ain't interesting to me so far.

 

Sera had a potential but turned out that she's kinda crazy (not the way I like) and also keep talking crap. Adding vulgarisms to her speaches should probably describe that she's really roguish type from slums but no, not working again. She's also lesbian and her face is weird, nothing funny at all.

 

And now that I obtained Cole I was really disappointed. He's is ... well looks like guy but turned out that he is some kind of spirit or what, partially invisible, moving things around Skyhold etc. He is definately NOT interesting, probably the worst along with Solas. His face and hair combined are looking like a vomiting demon of sloth.

 

Now I am struggling how to manage my party because I am myself mage with spirit tree so I need secondary mage for damage and CC (Dorian - fire or Vivi - Ice), tanking champ (primary Blackwall) and the last spot was always rogue with two daggers. But Varric got his Bianca, Red Jenny is apparently also meant to be archer and so the only option for secondary melee and rogue is Cole - but he is simply terrible. Picking mage was a tradition for me but I don't think playing on nightmare difficulty with 3 ranged champs and with implemented AI in such state as it is is possible. Mages die too quickly when touched and managing three out of four party members is quite tiresome. Also there is need for rogue because of locks are usually hiding sweets.

 

I like sweets (evilgrin).

 

 

What is your opinion about rogues and so?

 

I find Cole to be amazing character. I just feel for the guy. It helps i have also read Asunder as well so i know his entire back story thanks to the game and the book. So for me he is an amazingly deep character.

 

Also give him a bow, set him on follow himself, and give him only ranged attacks. He becomes brutal as hell.

[ReiKokoFuuu]

i really don't see what sera's sexual preference has to do with her class or personality nor why it should present a problem. 

 

answering your question about our opinions on rogues, here's mine:

 

varric: i love him to pieces, ever since DA2.  i do prefer his relationship with hawke over the inquisitor by a margin, but only because it felt like he deeply cared about hawke and their wellbeing (as well as hawke's other companions) and it felt like a true friendship early on, whereas i didn't get that with the inquisitor.  he still has that protective streak though, as evidenced by his relationship with cole.  as far as his usefulness in parties go, he's ranged and that's good enough for me (i tend to prefer 1 tank and 3 ranged characters) but he's definitely one of the most squishiest companions, so i keep an eye on him. 

 

cole: i've read asunder and was pleased when i heard he was to be in DAI.  i feel for him.  he doesn't truly understand the full complexity of human emotions, he has no concept of personal space, but he's always trying to help and he always does so to the best of his ability, which is more than a lot of people can say. he went from a scared boy trying to figure out who he is and surviving to someone who realises his unique ability to help people in a way that few can and does so selflessly.  he also provides more insight into all the other companions if you have him in your party.  yes, he's very squishy and is in more danger because he specialises in melee range, but he does a lot of damage, too.

 

sera: i have very, very mixed feelings about her.  her party banters are funny, i love her laughs and i find her useful in parties, but the one thing that so far has prevented me from loving her as much as i do the the other companions is her childishness and unwillingness to accept any other viewpoints or opinions but her own.  i feel that she has very little respect for others, especially in regards to people's feelings. 

[sch1986]

Not going to quote blackstork because his post is long- but my suggestion is also that you just haven't figured out how to build a DW rogue. They are very high damage dealers.

Also- you're not into customizing so that's probably 90% of the problem right there.

Don't ignore passive abilities!

Action abilities are great but you can only slot so many. Passive ones will help you make Cole so he does high damage and isn't too squishy. Also Varric and Bianca are great. If I'm in a tough fight he is usually one of the last ones standing and he has the potential to do major damage.

Customization and crafting is how you get the best gear with the best stats for your companion/yourself. You're doing yourself a disservice by not utilizing that feature.

IMO I have always struggled with wanting to bring mostly rogues and not much of anyone else.

Also- Iron bull with points stacked in mAximum health is just as sustainable if not more so than Cassandra (yes even as a 2H warrior). You have to figure out what your companions weaknesses are and build them up. That's true for any party member if you want the most out of them.