84 réponses à ce sujet

[-PenguinFetish-]

Is there a reason to this thread besides to try and show off your epeen? There are plenty, in my experience its the majority, of people that find the Venatori to be very difficult to extract with, even routine. Maybe you don't pug, I only pug due to the fact I just acquire an Xbox one and have not gotten my friends list built yet. There is no reason for us to make the game harder for them when we can easily make it harder for ourselfs by promoting, using characters we are not good at, pugging like I do, or trying different builds. This is a difficult game for newcomers, I see no reason to make it more difficult. I don't even think the red templars are any more difficult than the venatori, I actually have a harder time with the venatori due to my preference of playing as the Templar. Those brutes are way worse than the knights against a templar.

 

The point is to start a discussion about Venatori being a cakewalk. We were 2 people in a party with 1 pug. We shouldn't be able to complete this in less than a minute. 

[-PenguinFetish-]

When high quality weapons can achieve over 5x the damage as the starting weapons and nearly every skill is based on the weapon's DPS you can easily understand that weapon scaling can make or break the game.  Again, I understand that you don't want to play Perilous but the item you are using is obviously balanced for that content.  Using end-game weapons in a non end-game environment will always yield results that point to it being OP or the content being too easy.  In this case you have decided the content is too easy instead of realizing that the problem is how the weapons scale.  I think you know more about this game than most players so I'm not sure why this concept is so difficult for you to understand.  Do you really think that this weapons is balanced for Routine?  Of course not, so why would it be balanced for Threatening?

 

Venatori was always the easiest, right from the point where I started playing. Regardless of difficulty and gear, the Venatori are significantly weaker than the other two factions. One ranged class and a mage compared to the Templars 3 ranged units. No unit like the Behemoth or the Pride Demon, only the Brute, who is slow, weak and only has very close range melee attacks that are easily avoided by walking backwards. The only unit that is remotely tricky is the Stalker. 

[gay_wardens]

There is no reason to play Perilous other than epeen.

 

And this is why Dragon Age: Origins has become New Super Elder Dragon Scrolls Age: Skyrim Bros.

[Azrus]

Oh holy crap, really?  Penguin's right.  The Venatori boss is an absolute pushover.  The hardest part of the fight is doing your best not get pincushioned by the archers, which you have to do against the Templars anyway.  Can any of you honestly say that the Venatori boss isn't significantly easier than the Templar or Demon commanders?  It's a perfectly legitimate discussion to have, and his post isn't about bragging, most of us have done the exact same thing.  He's pointing out that the Venatori Commander is a cake walk, and you know what?  He's completely right.

 

Can the weapon envy while you're at it.  That's not what this is about.  You can walk right over the Venatori with a level 20 common weapon.  Do you guys really want bosses to be balanced around entry level gear?  Honestly?  It's not like you need lvl 23 uniques to clear the bosses as it is.  I'm more than happy to admit that weapons have more to do with progression than levels do, but that doesn't mean that we should be pushing for the game to be balanced around level 10 commons.  Ultimately we're going to see more and more of the community equipped with high level weapons as time goes on.  The way the game's currently designed, there is absolutely no reason to use lower level weapons if you've got something more powerful.  So trying to balance around ensuring that bosses aren't too difficult to kill with low level commons is going to completely trivialize gameplay in the months to come.  Is that really what you want?

[pejot82]

No bow can negate 3 horrors pinging you from across the map.   

 

And no skill can negate the need to hit mobs 6-7 times to kill them. Simple.

 

Don't compare this to ME3 - you had to aim to hit enemies, but you could also aim for head, dodge, use cover, use right hand 'glitch' etc. You had 4 lvls of ammo, gear giving passive bonuses, weapon and armor enhancements...

 

This game is 70% about your gear, 20% about skill choice and 10% player skill. If you can 1 shot enemies on routine with basic attack there is no need to use the skill tree is there? 

 

Let's face it, there is a big flaw in the game design. What would you tell someone who played 300h of MP, opened hundreds of chests and still stuck with under 100dps weapons? Bad luck? It's RNG after all.

[Azrus]

And no skill can negate the need to hit mobs 6-7 times to kill them. Simple.

 

Don't compare this to ME3 - you had to aim to hit enemies, but you could also aim for head, dodge, use cover, use right hand 'glitch' etc. You had 4 lvls of ammo, gear giving passive bonuses, weapon and armor enhancements...

 

This game is 70% about your gear, 20% about skill choice and 10% player skill. If you can 1 shot enemies on routine with basic attack there is no need to use the skill tree is there? 

 

Let's face it, there is a big flaw in the game design. What would you tell someone who played 300h of MP, opened hundreds of chests and still stuck with under 100dps weapons? Bad luck? It's RNG after all.

I would tell them they have remarkable luck and they should consider a road trip to Vegas.

 

I had a match the other day where I kited the Templar Commander around the map while my team mates killed all the adds.  Once they finished, they came on over and gave me a hand with the Templar Commander.  None of my team mates were well geared.  This was on a level 1 Hunter.  But no, you're right.  It was definitely the 98DPS bow that I was equipped with, I mean clearly I wouldn't have been able to ensure my team was able to succeed without it.  It sure is a good thing I've got such awesome luck with drops!

 

If you honestly think it's 10% player skill, then I hope I never end up in a PUG with you.  Learn the bosses, learn the fight mechanics, stop making excuses.

[Myala]

I already did say the Templars are easier for me and you just proved how they can be easier with your tactic you just mentioned.

[Azrus]

All of the commanders are relatively easy if you understand how to handle them.  The difference here is that you don't need a tactic to beat the Venatori Commander as she doesn't pose any real threat.  She doesn't have any abilities that'll kill you in 1-2 hits, she doesn't have any CC, she doesn't have any tricks you need to watch out for.  That, right there, is what this discussion is about.

[Myala]

And if you buff her people would be saying the templar was too easy because he can't teleport and only has one ranged attack that is very slow. Someone has to the be easy one. I don't find the 5th venatori wave easier than the templar 5th so its not like it is insanely easier. It really depends on your character and build and gear. We can all talk about which is easier for each of us and that is a fun conversation. But I don't think making a difficult game even more difficult for people that are already having a hard time is a very nice thing to suggest. It limits the amount of community that we have by making it less accessible. There are better ways to increase the challenge of the game without hurting players that are not as talented as us.

[KalGerion_Beast]

Before we get around to buffing, can we all agree the demon commander radius of his 1-hit kO uppercut needs a slight nerf?  Roll wont get warriors out of the way, and if there is any lag sprinting wont guarantee a safe escape, even if you have been sprinting since he went underground.   

[TheThirdRace]

I'm sorry, but he's got a point. Since day 1 the Venatori are the easiest by a big margin.

Equipment isn't a factor here, the Venatori commander doesn't have a high damage ability, doesn't have CC, doesn't have a lot of HP, etc. It's simply a normal enemy with more HP than normal, a far cry from the 2 other commanders. Furthermore, both the Templar and Demon commanders force you to move around with their moves, the Venatori commander is the only one not forcing you to do so. This makes holding a choke point much easier.

There is also another problem not mentioned. The maps are made so you're out in the open and get shot from all angles. This is a poor design because it "forces" you to hold the entrance even if you have a big area outside. No person with half a brain would prefer to be helpless with shots coming from all angles instead of using a choke point. Also Orlais is the easiest map because you actually have room to move while being protected with the choke point. It's a design disaster, either you use Orlais and have room + protection or you use another map and don't have either.

Combine the Venatori with Orlais and you're in for the easiest combination no matter the difficulty level, your equipment, your character or your skills.

[Myala]

I agree with most of that. But that doesn't mean that buffing her is the solution and making the game harder for those that are already having a hard time. Better solutions would be another difficulty, allowing us to choose enemies, a new map with no choke point room, than to universally affect all players.

[DarthLinebacker]

Support. Half the time I don't even notice her wave 5 because the PUGs swarm her and I'm just running around killing adds. The adds the Venatori get also seem to be in general less threatening than Templar or Demon adds as well. Kiting the Venatori as a faction seems more of a chore than a way to avoid danger.

[-PenguinFetish-]

Before we get around to buffing, can we all agree the demon commander radius of his 1-hit kO uppercut needs a slight nerf?  Roll wont get warriors out of the way, and if there is any lag sprinting wont guarantee a safe escape, even if you have been sprinting since he went underground.   

 

No it does not need a nerf at all. I soloed him today twice with an Archer, he is easy as hell once you figure out his patterns. Sprinting works if you are off host, because I do it all the time. Try timing a jump.

[Catastrophy]

Venatori Commander needs to be looked at - she's mostly down before the horde is depleted.

[Cirvante]

Kiting the Venatori as a faction seems more of a chore than a way to avoid danger.

 

It's not even necessary. When we get Red Templars or Demons then on stage 5 we always communicate who's going to get aggro and speed tank or kite the bosses. Maybe even how we're gonna move to avoid crossfire by ranged enemy units. When it's against Venatori we just say "whatever, let's wreck them out in the open, they can't do anything".

 

And some of you seem to be completely missing the point. It's not about high level weapons trivializing a difficulty, it's about one faction being significantly weaker than the other two. The Red Templars and the Demons are fine as they are, but the Venatori need a buff to present an adequate level of challenge to the players.

[KalGerion_Beast]

No it does not need a nerf at all. I soloed him today twice with an Archer, he is easy as hell once you figure out his patterns. Sprinting works if you are off host, because I do it all the time. Try timing a jump.

I have soloed him many times with the hunter on host, you are right that it is very easy.  Off-host though, it becomes a nightmare.

Evade?  We'll put you right back where you jumped from, cant have you moving too quickly now, can we?  

Sprint?  You can get away from the circle.  But he will still 1-hit kO you, even though you are 3m away from the edge of his radius.  

The only thing that has worked off-host consistently is standing on an object, which is likely a glitch and to be patched.

 

Im not asking for a severe reduction in radius or any damage reduction, just a tad to reduce the issues presented with online gaming.  Hardly fun when I observe all the cues and act accordingly, only to die  -.-

[Cirvante]

I have soloed him many times with the hunter on host, you are right that it is very easy.  Off-host though, it becomes a nightmare.

Evade?  We'll put you right back where you jumped from, cant have you moving too quickly now, can we?  

Sprint?  You can get away from the circle.  But he will still 1-hit kO you, even though you are 3m away from the edge of his radius.  

The only thing that has worked off-host consistently is standing on an object, which is likely a glitch and to be patched.

 

Im not asking for a severe reduction in radius or any damage reduction, just a tad to reduce the issues presented with online gaming.  Hardly fun when I observe all the cues and act accordingly, only to die  -.-

 

I have evaded him several times off host. You just need to jump at the right moment.

[Procrast68]

I have evaded him several times off host. You just need to jump at the right moment.

Jumping evades the ground attack? My god that makes everything so much better if so.  On topic, She is really underpowered compared to the other 2.  Routine should be kept the same but maybe but the higher difficulties give her more health and have her buff the mooks around her like mages do in single player.  Other than the commander the demons are really easy.  If you remove his surprise attack the demon commander is really bad.  Red templars feel really balanced on the whole.

[Cirvante]

Jumping evades the ground attack? My god that makes everything so much better if so.

 

Well, many people seem to complain that they can't outrun his attack, but if they were to combine the running with a jump at the right moment or just bunny hop instead, their chances of evading the instakill would improve dramatically.

[III Poison III]

This. Can't tell you the amount of times I seem to be in a good group and when I get to the end they all go to the flag whilst I'm signalling them to stay at the entrance with me, only for them to all be dead and crawling towards me within 30 seconds... I cry a bit.
For us, she maybe be stupid easy. But have you puged lately? This boss is needed for A LOT of players. I don't think its right to cut away many peoples chances of ever beating a boss because she is not enjoyable to us. We can always find ways to make it more difficult for ourselfs without making it worse for those that are less fortunate than us.

[KalGerion_Beast]

Well, many people seem to complain that they can't outrun his attack, but if they were to combine the running with a jump at the right moment or just bunny hop instead, their chances of evading the instakill would improve dramatically.

lollogic.  clearly I dont have any of it.  

[MadMaximoff]

Someone clearly hasn't ran into a bugged Venatori Stalker yet.

Nothing says wipe like a mob that one shots and restealths instantly then one shots again and restealths instantly again.

They make the Demon Commanders scream/teleport spam look fair

[Azrus]

I have never had that misfortune.  I believe in that case I'd set my pride aside and start spinning in circles striking out at random while shouting like a madman.  Unless I'm playing my Reaver, at which point it's just another day at the office.

 

I think the Venatori Commander needs a new trick or two.  Yeah, it's nice seeing Venatori and thinking "Oh, well, here's an easy win", but easy wins don't make good players either.  I learned a lot by getting stomped into the ground by the Demon/Templar Commanders.  You don't learn strategy if brute force will get the job done with less effort.

 

Lets also take a moment and consider what's going to happen if the option to select our opposing faction is implemented.  Once you get past the warm fuzzy feeling of conquering each faction, it really turns into a grind for gold and XP.  How many people do you really think are going to pick Demon/Templars over Venatori if the factions are left as they are?

[TheThirdRace]

No it does not need a nerf at all. I soloed him today twice with an Archer, he is easy as hell once you figure out his patterns. Sprinting works if you are off host, because I do it all the time. Try timing a jump.

 

Well, many people seem to complain that they can't outrun his attack, but if they were to combine the running with a jump at the right moment or just bunny hop instead, their chances of evading the instakill would improve dramatically.

You realize you're probably 2 of the best players to play this game right? You're a minority among a minority.

Jumping at the "right moment" isn't as easy as it sounds. I've tried standing on objects (works 50% of the time), running (doesn't work), jumping (didn't work either) and Fade Stepping (worked 50% of the time because of off-host). We can easily stay out of the Templar commander eternal swing by simply kiting him, the Demon commander isn't that easy to evade. Either reduce slightly the radius so if you run you can evade it or increase the cooldown between the underground jumps so he doesn't do that 50% of the time. I'm not asking to remove the insta-kill, just to give us a chance to evade it in a normal way. I'm pretty sure the jumping at the right time is more of a glitch than a solution...

I'm might not be as good as you 2 are, but I'm far better than the average. Still, I can't dodge the Demon commander. We don't all possess great skills, trying to balance things for elite players would be a bad design. I'm all for challenge, I've completed Perilous numerous times now, I'm just asking for removing the BS. Insta-kill + no possible evade unless you're in the top 1000 players isn't a good solution.

Also, it's not helping 2 out of the 3 maps are giving you unfavorable odds, meaning small controllable spaces limiting your movement combined with big open areas where you get shot from all angles. It's the perfect recipe for disaster. The Demon commander makes all but Orlais a nightmare to fight without great teammates and a lot of coordination.