78 réponses à ce sujet

[catabuca]

I was getting a strong golem vibe when she was talking about that.

 

Here's a theory then.

 

We've got the golem thing the wrong way around. 

 

Dwarves were literally born from the stone.

 

They were golems before they were dwarves. Something made them alive, flesh, dwarven. 

 

Creating golems in DAO involved pouring molten lyrium into/onto dwarves, right? Perhaps they were made dwarven by removing the lyrium. That removed the magic. That's why they can't be mages. Caridin discovered how to reverse the process (he didn't invent it).

 

And it might explain the Profane. Dwarves returning to their true nature. They eat lyrium to survive. That lets them reunite with the stone.

 

It puts the Anvil of the Void choice into a new light. Perhaps it should still be destroyed, but following this theory perhaps it was simply returning dwarves to their original form.

[catabuca]

We can take it further.

 

I posit the dwarves were the very first people, when they were golems.

 

We know life on earth developed from small organic organisms, and slowly evolved. Same for life in the Dragon Age universe. Only, we know lyrium - ostensibly a mineral - is also organic in some way or another. So where life here emerged from carbon etc., there it emerged from lyrium and other compounds (including the ones we are more familiar with, but in different quantities). And so, eventually the first (or some of the first) sentient and civilised beings evolved, and they were the golems - people made of stone, a living stone that comprised lyrium in such a quantity as to make it at least partially organic.

 

Eventually, they discovered a way to move on their evolution by their own hand, and developed a way of making themselves flesh. Part of this involved removing the lyrium. And so we get the dwarves we see today -- locked off from lyrium and magic, and yet still with an affinity for lyrium that is different to the affinity the tranquil have for enchanting. We know it's possible to create flesh golems, and perhaps that's an offshoot of the same process.

 

Over time that history was lost, as so many histories are, but certain things remained and were passed down in dwarven culture: having a shaperate (since Dagna talked about one in her dream); the concept of being children of the stone; etc.

 

That the dwarves were the first people is something my lore buddy and I have been knocking around for some time, along with the crack theory that they created the elves as flesh golems, but that's a whole other level of wtf.

 

How does the blight factor into all of this? Is it a separate event that took advantage of lyrium's organic nature, or was it a byproduct of the process of separating lyrium from the golems? Indeed, was red lyrium the byproduct, and eventually the blight seeped out of it and began to infect the world, rather than the other way around (the assumption that the blight came first and went on to infect lyrium).

[SetecAstronomy]

Here's a theory then.

 

We've got the golem thing the wrong way around. 

 

Dwarves were literally born from the stone.

 

They were golems before they were dwarves. Something made them alive, flesh, dwarven. 

 

Creating golems in DAO involved pouring molten lyrium into/onto dwarves, right? Perhaps they were made dwarven by removing the lyrium. That removed the magic. That's why they can't be mages. Caridin discovered how to reverse the process (he didn't invent it).

 

And it might explain the Profane. Dwarves returning to their true nature. They eat lyrium to survive. That lets them reunite with the stone.

 

It puts the Anvil of the Void choice into a new light. Perhaps it should still be destroyed, but following this theory perhaps it was simply returning dwarves to their original form.

I like this (I just told this theory to my roommate. He looks at me and goes, "so dwarves are essentially 'meat golems?'") But yes a lot here makes sense. Makes me think what if the Anvil were a means of summoning a spirit of the fade, but 'mechanically' so to apeak. Just as a Tranquil touched by a spirit regains its connection to the Fade, a meat golem touched by the Anvil (and a healthy dose of lyrium) regains its titan status/form/what have you.

 

Thats interesting about the Profane. Maybe they are the perverted versions of the original Stone Dwarf race corrupted by the Blight tainted red lyrium idol. They do share some physical similarities with the Red Templar Shadow.

 

Cool stuff. I will have to think on this more.

[Neleothesze]

Just adding a bit of extra info to the thread. This is what Solas can say at one point to the Dwarven Inquisitor: "Dwarves are the severed arm of a once mighty hero, lying in a pool of blood, undirected. Whatever skill at arm it had, gone forever. Although it might twitch to give the appearance of life, it will never dream."

 

Now... if we move past the metaphor - and remove the riddles this guy usually speaks in - and couple this with Kieran's words about being taller and Cole's words about reaching for something older than magic, I think it ties in nicely to the idea that Dwarves are the remnants of more powerful beings (Titans, perhaps)

 

And I think that Dagna may have, for a moment, breached that boundary and got a taste of what Dwarves could be or had been.

[Hair Serious Business]

Do any questions ever get answered, or is there just always more?

Problem with such amazing questions is that you get worst and most disappointing answer!

Just remember what amazing theories poped out about Flemeth then in end you get most disappointing answer of what she really is.

[MACharlie1]

Problem with such amazing questions is that you get worst and most disappointing answer!
Just remember what amazing theories poped out about Flemeth then in end you get most disappointing answer of what she really is.

I think a lot of the Flemeth theories are still valid in fact.

[MrMrPendragon]

Here's a theory, it's somewhat long, but somewhat short.

 

Dwarves used to have magic and just as the elves had their immortality, the best of the dwarves had their own talent - they could morph into golems, not just regular golems, but titan-like beings. They were the first to inhabit the known world and had a civilization that flourished. But as soon as the dragons came, they were pushed back to the underground.

 

They waged an unending war with the dragons a long time ago - in one of the Tombs quest, I think it mentions dwarves going through all the trouble of creating a weapon to combat dragons.

 

They could not kill the strongest of the dragons, because the dragons had magic of their own. One by one the greatest of the dwarves fell in battle, and they were running out of titans. In the midst of desperation, the dwarven mages use all of their power to create a whole new world outside of Thedas, just as the elves made the world where the Eluvians rest, and imprisoned the Old Gods. They failed and only imprisoned their power. The dwarves sacrificed themselves  to seal the dragons in physical cages located at the heart of their grandest cities. They erased all trace of their existence so no one could free these beings. What they were, and what magic they wielded, are what sustains the Fade, making it what it is. It "leaks" into the physical world and manifests itself into lyrium.

 

Then of course, as time passed, events got forgotten and a new civilization rose to conquer Thedas - the elves.

 

Now here's the fun part, the dwarven civilization rose to its peak and ended, just like the elven civilization, and guess what, the humans(Tevinter) were also destroyed by the Old Gods(darkspawn).

 

It's as if there's pattern here lmao. Insert 'time is cyclical' concept, and boom Dragon Age 4

[Rocknife]

Maybe the mountain, the stone they worship, was once a dragon and lyrium his blood. The "stone" they worship might be fossil of a dead dragon or dead dragons. That would explain how there can be blighted lyrium, even though minerals could not be blighted. One of the dragons might have been infected before it died and his blighted blood became red lyrium, while the other ones' bloods became lyrium. They may even be dead old gods, since the lyrium sings.

 

One of the most famous dwarven artifact is the Anvil of the Void. The Void is the place The Forgotton Ones existed so maybe dwarves could use the Void as a source for their magic just like humans and elves use the fade for the same reason and the Void may be later sealed with the Forgotten Ones in there. That might be why they have no access to magic any more. Forgotten Ones may even be old dwarven deities.

[In Exile]

"Llke, mountain-tall. Or I was the mountain"

Perhaps a reference to the Stone?

I think it's a reference to lyrium being something akin to the veins of the world. It's bound up with it.

[Lord Raijin]

So i'm post-campaign and trying to clear my war table. After the resolution of "The Archanist and the Fade", I paid a visit to hyperactive dwarfette, and...

 

Dagna : (...) I've learned something. I think. I don't know.

Dagna : I got a scraping that was cleaned off you. And it's weird. And the other rift bits, they're weird. It's just... weird.

Dagna : Lyrium and the fade, linked. But dwarves and tranquil, not linked. But they work lyrium, so they are. Somehow? (looks like me when I begin to write an essay)

Dagna : There's something there. I was face-deep in a rune, and for a moment... I was tall. Really tall.

Dagna : And I thought -- I thought all the thoughts. (nervous laugh)

 

Inquisitor : You felt taller ? How much taller ?

Dagna : Like, mountain-tall. Or I was the mountain. But I was moving. I felt dizzy.

Dagna : You know what I remembered ? Watching a shaperate carve the wall of memory. Except... big. Isn't that weird ? Maybe there were fumes.

 

Inquisitor : What do you mean when you say "thought all the thoughts"?

Dagna : I don't know ? As if, for a moment, I was around all my people. And my thought was all of theirs ? No, no, my thought was all of our thoughts. Like parts. Ugh, words are mush.

Dagna : Maybe that's what the Stone feels like. Or we think it feels like. If we think it feels ? Creepy.

 

(a more and more wtf) Inquisitor : So tranquil and dwarves are linked to lyrium, but also not linked ?

Dagna : Like the lyrium needs to flow, but if you're part of it, it takes you with it. so you can't be part of it. That makes me sad. I'm not sure why. It seems like whe should be part of it. Whatever "it" is.

Dagna : Or maybe we're the ones who make it happen ? Whatever "it" is ?

Dagna : You know what's frustrating ? Answers that aren't answers. Bleah. (I see you Bioware.)

Dagna : I tried to make it happen again, but it wouldn't. Then I had a headache. And cocoa. And a lie-down.

 

So, it feels huge. I think. Girl confused me. Any ideas ?

 

Also, Dagna's manner of speech makes me think of the dwarf merchant in DAO Orzammar, who in turn makes me think tabout Cole. You know, the spirit who don't understand a thing about the world, and hear the lyrium as a song ?

 

This is all too confusing for me to comprehend. Time to get Bill Nye the science guy to explain the truth behind lyrium.. blue and red.

 

 

[Navasha]

When I heard that Lyrium was alive in the game, my very first thought was way back to Starflight, an old game from the '80s that I used to love.    In that game, Endurium was a metal that the galaxy used to fuel its space ships.    At the end of the game, you discover that Endurium is a sentient life form and to protect itself from the 'organics' that were "burning it alive", it had started to make stars go supernova in self-defense. 

 

So IF Lyrium is somehow alive, what if its sentient?   How would it feel about being mined and consumed?   What actions could it take?

[theflyingzamboni]

Ogre statues in Mass Effect. Krogan heads in DA:I. Lyrium/Fade crystals come in red, green, and blue.  Same universe confirmed?

[Iakus]

I think it's a reference to lyrium being something akin to the veins of the world. It's bound up with it.

 

That may be.  But it still shows a connection between dwarves and lyrium.  And thus dwarves and the world, which may be what they call "the Stone"

[Paxwell]

In the Elven creation myth, the planet is real, living being, right?  Well, maybe that's not a myth either.  Maybe lyrium is just the blood of the living world, and so anyone who uses it is actually using blood magic!

[Neleothesze]

In the Elven creation myth, the planet is real, living being, right?  Well, maybe that's not a myth either.  Maybe lyrium is just the blood of the living world, and so anyone who uses it is actually using blood magic!

Lifestream? *sigh*

[myahele]

I wonder if someway the dwarves (or their forgotten god's) somehow supports the world from underground? Kinda like how the Titan Atlast supports the world, it'll certainly kinda explain why there's so many statues of dwarves lifting thier hands up and are litterally used a support pillars in dwarven settlement

[BloodyTalon]

I wonder if someway the dwarves (or their forgotten god's) somehow supports the world from underground? Kinda like how the Titan Atlast supports the world, it'll certainly kinda explain why there's so many statues of dwarves lifting thier hands up and are litterally used a support pillars in dwarven settlement

That theory would fit with what the old god child says about the dwarves missing their titians if I recall right. Well being less without them

Modifié par BloodyTalon, 09 février 2015 - 08:57 .

[Morroian]

Problem with such amazing questions is that you get worst and most disappointing answer!

Just remember what amazing theories poped out about Flemeth then in end you get most disappointing answer of what she really is.

 

I wasnt disappointed.

[In Exile]

That may be.  But it still shows a connection between dwarves and lyrium.  And thus dwarves and the world, which may be what they call "the Stone"

I think "the Stone" is lyrium itself. 

[Medhia_Nox]

If what Dagna experienced is "Stone Sense" - that would make the dwarves a potential hive mind. 

 

What she describes is a "Godhead" - the communion of all thoughts into a central vortex shared and contributed to by any and all who are a part of it. 

 

If THAT was what Sandal meant when he said: "Everyone would be like they were."  And the dwarves gained a social consciousness... I say do it Bioware, do it now. 

 

DA will stand for Dwarven Age. 

[Shahadem]

So i'm post-campaign and trying to clear my war table. After the resolution of "The Archanist and the Fade", I paid a visit to hyperactive dwarfette, and...

 

Dagna : (...) I've learned something. I think. I don't know.

Dagna : I got a scraping that was cleaned off you. And it's weird. And the other rift bits, they're weird. It's just... weird.

Dagna : Lyrium and the fade, linked. But dwarves and tranquil, not linked. But they work lyrium, so they are. Somehow? (looks like me when I begin to write an essay)

Dagna : There's something there. I was face-deep in a rune, and for a moment... I was tall. Really tall.

Dagna : And I thought -- I thought all the thoughts. (nervous laugh)

 

Inquisitor : You felt taller ? How much taller ?

Dagna : Like, mountain-tall. Or I was the mountain. But I was moving. I felt dizzy.

Dagna : You know what I remembered ? Watching a shaperate carve the wall of memory. Except... big. Isn't that weird ? Maybe there were fumes.

 

Inquisitor : What do you mean when you say "thought all the thoughts"?

Dagna : I don't know ? As if, for a moment, I was around all my people. And my thought was all of theirs ? No, no, my thought was all of our thoughts. Like parts. Ugh, words are mush.

Dagna : Maybe that's what the Stone feels like. Or we think it feels like. If we think it feels ? Creepy.

 

(a more and more wtf) Inquisitor : So tranquil and dwarves are linked to lyrium, but also not linked ?

Dagna : Like the lyrium needs to flow, but if you're part of it, it takes you with it. so you can't be part of it. That makes me sad. I'm not sure why. It seems like whe should be part of it. Whatever "it" is.

Dagna : Or maybe we're the ones who make it happen ? Whatever "it" is ?

Dagna : You know what's frustrating ? Answers that aren't answers. Bleah. (I see you Bioware.)

Dagna : I tried to make it happen again, but it wouldn't. Then I had a headache. And cocoa. And a lie-down.

 

So, it feels huge. I think. Girl confused me. Any ideas ?

 

Also, Dagna's manner of speech makes me think of the dwarf merchant in DAO Orzammar, who in turn makes me think tabout Cole. You know, the spirit who don't understand a thing about the world, and hear the lyrium as a song ?

 

Those bits of Fade made Dagna high. It's pretty obvious.

 

That or all the dwarves minds are connected by the lyrium dust in their bodies. That actually makes sense seeing as other people's conciousness can enter the Fade when they dream. Dwarven minds thus wouldn't be able to enter the Fade because all dwarven minds would be linked together and thus no dwarf would have an individual self.

[Kaoske23]

I wonder if someway the dwarves (or their forgotten god's) somehow supports the world from underground? Kinda like how the Titan Atlast supports the world, it'll certainly kinda explain why there's so many statues of dwarves lifting thier hands up and are litterally used a support pillars in dwarven settlement

 

 

That theory would fit with what the old god child says about the dwarves missing their titians if I recall right. Well being less without them

 

 

=small voice= speaking of titans being underground support pillars, dwarves being a small part of a whole.... i'm just going the leave this here..the ability to understand appears after drinking the well... under Old Elven Writing...​ .

 

[Lee T]

I noticed that dialogue.
 
However, at this moment I want to question two things:
 
 
1) DOES Bioware even HAVE a "meta-plot" (meaning all about: Fade, Black City, Gods, Magic, Demons, Lyrium) Or do they just make it up as they go?
2) IF the amount of revelations about the meta-plot continues in that speed, we will know it all when Dragon Age 78 is released, and I have to be 514 years old to experience that.

As evidenced by the Mass Effect series, Bioware do use meta-plot, but they change it between each games.

[Rocknife]

This occured to me while reading about Kieran's comment to a dwarf inquisitor. He mentions titans. He says "you can't be as tall as titans" to a dwarf Inquisitor. Dagna, while working with lyrium, says that she felt as tall as a mountain, she felt like a part of it, the stone, but also moving so unlike a mountain, thinking all the thoughts of her people at the same time. Solas also says something about dwarves to Varric. Like how dwarves are the only race who cannot dream, that is because they are severed arm of a once mighty hero. And we know it is in dwarven culture that The Stone is holy like a god to them.

 

This reminds me of Golems and the Anvil of the Void. Souls of dwarves were used on the Anvil of the Void to create a golem made of stone. Titans could be a huge golem-like things and the original gods of the dwarves. The titans were as large as a mountain so many souls were used to create it and that is why Dagna "thought all the thoughts of her people". And she felt like that while working with lyrium because lyrium is the blood of titans.

 

Another interesting detail is in the name Anvil of the "Void." "The forgotten ones" live there and elven gods don't consider them as one of them and/or don't like them. Perhaps Caridin didn't invent the Anvil of Void, instead scavenged the remainings of an older atrifact and tried to rebuild it and somewhat succeeded. If I remember correctly, in DA2 Hawke goes into a thaig that was built long before Caridin and there were golems in there.

 

In elven lore it is said that Andruil once tried to hunt the forgotten ones and went to the Void but the longer he stayed there the more insane he became every time he came back. This reminds me of two things; red lyrium and the calling that signals the end of a warden's life. Red lyrium is basically lyrium with blight. Grey wardens drink darkspawn blood + lyrium + archdemon blood during their joining ritual. Remnants of the titans might be the source of the calling. HoF goes to west to find a way to end the calling says Morrigan in Inquisition if the warden romanced her. Kal-Sharok is in the west, only remaining dwarven kingdom other than Orzammar. Even if HoF died slaying the Archdemon, The Warden Commander from the Awakening still goes west. The calling and the titans might be related somehow.

[Poledo]

You heard it here first... soylent blue is not people. Soylent blue is dwarf.

Soylent red is people is though. Templars mostly and whoemever they use to mine it from their bodies, yuck!