40 réponses à ce sujet

[DefaultNord]

Before I get into why I seriously dislike the current tactics system, i would like to add that Inquisition, as a whole, is an incredibly satisfying RPG! The story, currently, is as good as ever and the interaction between hero and AI/Companions is amazing, however;

 

The combat, ah! The combat itself is fine, I love the animations and the ability effects, however, I cant for the life of me understand why Bioware would completely dumb down what was a perfect AI tactics system from previous games! I mean, do they really expect the AI to be competent in intense battles with just 4 preset commands, and even those are just staggeringly limiting!

 

• Take Origins as an example of a perfect system! I could set my companions to only use specific abilities at specific time under specific circumstances. I could have companions attack enemies based on rank so that my tank could handle the elites while my damage mage/rogue etc, could pick of the ranged targets. Also, If enemies got to close to Morrigan (or any ranged companion for that matter) he/she was able to CC then retreat under their own power. If Alistair was getting flanked he could act accordingly! On the fly micro management is one thing, but bloody hell! I swear if Solas runs into the f*cking mix again and gets twatted by a claymore i'm just going to leave his sorry ass unconscious! Its like babysitting a bunch of static morons!

 

• Secondly, why can we only queue one ability at a time, in Origins we could store as much as our stamina/mana etc would allow, that's because the abilities had reasonable resource consumption, why the hell does each ability use up so much resource?! Instead of each ability draining so much, just nerf their effects ie, lower damage, shorter dots/hots, slightly longer CD's!

TL;DR - Give us back the tactics system from Origins please!

[Frozenkex]

tactics in da 2 were pretty good too, and you didnt need to invest attributes to unlock slots there which i preferred.

[Sunlight Heart]

Inquisition's active combat wouldn't really work well with a tactics AI setup.

[Nerevar-as]

Inquisition's active combat wouldn't really work well with a tactics AI setup.

WTF that does mean?

 

 

Besides triggering CCC the party will behave like idiots (ranged shooting at melee range with no option to tell them to run away is my favorite so far), friendly fire on means you wipe out your whole part without scratching the enemy (I really want to know why they keep that rubbish of asimetry), and so on. Have to micromanage 99.9% of the combat or get TPks.

[MattStriker]

Inquisition's active combat wouldn't really work well with a tactics AI setup.

 

If that is the case then the correct approach would have been to ditch the active combat.

[Sunlight Heart]

WTF that does mean?


Besides triggering CCC the party will behave like idiots (ranged shooting at melee range with no option to tell them to run away is my favorite so far), friendly fire on means you wipe out your whole part without scratching the enemy (I really want to know why they keep that rubbish of asimetry), and so on. Have to micromanage 99.9% of the combat or get TPks.

In layman's terms, it means that Inquisition has several skills that need human intelligence to really use properly and there is no way to fix that in the game.

Because of how action like combat is, situations can change quicker than even in DA2. They didn't really think the combat in this game through.

[Sunlight Heart]

If that is the case then the correct approach would have been to ditch the active combat.

Its too far gone for that. At this point I'd rather them embrace action oriented combat and model themselves after Dragon's Dogma in terms of gameplay.

[Razir-Samus]

In layman's terms, it means that Inquisition has several skills that need human intelligence to really use properly and there is no way to fix that in the game.

Because of how action like combat is, situations can change quicker than even in DA2. They didn't really think the combat in this game through.

such as barrier? the ai tends to use that if you bunch up 2 or more characters... there's no reason you couldn't simply disable the tactic and use it yourself because human judgement is often better than the shoddy ai in games

 

other than being new to the frostbite engine, i don't see why they couldn't give us a functioning combat tactics system like in the previous titles... they did after all put a handful of set tactics in with very basic variables... so why not give us a full list to handle ourselves?

[DefaultNord]

such as barrier? the ai tends to use that if you bunch up 2 or more characters... there's no reason you couldn't simply disable the tactic and use it yourself because human judgement is often better than the shoddy ai in games

 

other than being new to the frostbite engine, i don't see why they couldn't give us a functioning combat tactics system like in the previous titles... they did after all put a handful of set tactics in with very basic variables... so why not give us a full list to handle ourselves?

 

Exactly! So, if you want to use Barrier as an example, simply put; if (insert companion/s name here) is < ? (lets say 25%) health then use Barrier. If you have 2 companions at below 25% then choose the higher ranked companion tank > heals > dps melee/ranged! This was the type of tactics you got in DA:O, not super advanced but allowed for much greater freedom! Of course they would need to be tweaked, but not by much! 

 

In my opinion the tactics/behaviors they have in place at the moment are useless with the exception of the heal and potion reserves, the follow/defend tactic is limited and the resource reserve is pointless due to the fact that a single ability basically uses up ALL of your resources anyway!

[Chaseroy]

In layman's terms, it means that Inquisition has several skills that need human intelligence to really use properly and there is no way to fix that in the game.

Because of how action like combat is, situations can change quicker than even in DA2. They didn't really think the combat in this game through.

Wow! That must have been really hard for you to distill such complex and sophisticated thought down to 'layman's terms'. 

[Sunlight Heart]

such as barrier? the ai tends to use that if you bunch up 2 or more characters... there's no reason you couldn't simply disable the tactic and use it yourself because human judgement is often better than the shoddy ai in games

other than being new to the frostbite engine, i don't see why they couldn't give us a functioning combat tactics system like in the previous titles... they did after all put a handful of set tactics in with very basic variables... so why not give us a full list to handle ourselves?

No. More like parry, dodge, leap shot, block and counter, and stealth. It's mainly an issue with rouges. Dodge skills have no I frames, and rogues don't use stealth to well unless you play them( you have to control them, or manually move them away from fights when stealthing).

No dodge stat and expecting AI to properly use thier abilities defensive abilities makes AI rogues a liability. They'd need to change a bit to get it work right. Most classes work with the current system, but rogues are underpowered if left to the computer.

Really the biggest issue here is that stats don't really do anything. That's why tactical combat is wonky. That and the lack of true support skill tree for mages.

I guess what I'm saying is that the inclusion of skills lime that pretty much gave way to them cutting out the ability to assign specific commands through tactics. Their are plenty of tactics they could still use, but for whatever reason, they didn't.

[Razir-Samus]

No. More like parry, dodge, leap shot, block and counter, and stealth. It's mainly an issue with rouges. Dodge skills have no I frames, and rogues don't use stealth to well unless you play them( you have to control them, or manually move them away from fights when stealthing).

No dodge stat and expecting AI to properly use thier abilities defensive abilities makes AI rogues a liability. They'd need to change a bit to get it work right. Most classes work with the current system, but rogues are underpowered if left to the computer.

Really the biggest issue here is that stats don't really do anything. That's why tactical combat is wonky. That and the lack of true support skill tree for mages.

all of those could have been programmed quite easily in the tactics system of olde... a few of them using "less than x stamina", others using "if being attacked by x", maybe there's some more that could be used but those are what my mind went to

 

varric uses stealth often in every fight, usually moving back to my location before attacking again (i have him set to follow me)

 

perhaps they went this route because of the engine, but since we already have an extremely basic tactics menu, the potential is clearly there... it just doesn't make sense to me, why would they go so far away from what made dragon age great, and come up with a completely new style in almost every regard?

[metatheurgist]

Dog:

Target->[mage]->Overwhelm

GOOD BOY!

Best thing I ever typed in a video game. AI in this game is dumber than a Dog.

[Morroian]

I guess what I'm saying is that the inclusion of skills lime that pretty much gave way to them cutting out the ability to assign specific commands through tactics. Their are plenty of tactics they could still use, but for whatever reason, they didn't.

 

I think things like the active dodge could be easily programmed through tactics. But if this it the issue then don't include them. More action oriented players seemed to be pretty happy with DA2 combat. Melee rogues were fine in DA2.

[Kendar Fleetfoot]

I just don't understand why you'd change something that worked so well in DAO and DA2 in regards to combat, tactics and MOVEMENT.

[Jaizek]

I'm having the issue where they won't even us Abilities now. It's worse then the tactical combat cause they just auto attack everything. 

[otis0310]

They probably thought that things like tactics and distributing your own attrbitues might rquire thinking.  The average game can't think, all they want is non stop combat, therefore why bother putting it in.  Instead just make it nonstop combat like people want and don't ask them to think.  This is what they call appealing to a broader audience.

[Chiramu]

I can't even set my Inquisition party members to run away if they are being attacked >.>. The mage and ranged rogue getting attacked by a warrior, they stand there and take the sword to the face.

[DefaultNord]

I can't even set my Inquisition party members to run away if they are being attacked >.>. The mage and ranged rogue getting attacked by a warrior, they stand there and take the sword to the face.

Couple that with they're inability to react appropriately due to the way that resource consumption is handled means that you are constantly having to babysit your ranged companions!

This also isn't helped by the fact that you can only queue one ability at a time meaning that you have to move, wait, THEN counter for each character! It's just such an inconvenient system! It's highly frustrating!

[Commander Michael]

I turned off my tactics as soon as I saw the terrible tactics menu.

 

I occasionally turn it on to see how intelligently the AI uses abilities, and it was hilarious. My archer rogue with sleeping powder will RUN UP TO ENEMIES to use it, instead of using it while getting attacked in melee. They will also use leaping shot while being 50 meters away from the enemy. It truly is hilariously terrible.

 

Another hilarious thing is if you tell them to use the war horn ability from the Warrior's battlemaster tree (the horn that stuns enemies); the AI will use it IMMIDIATELY when combat has started, when NO enemies are around. It's so bad it's funny...

 

Thankfully they gave us the option of atleast turning everything off...

[Silent Fear]

WTF that does mean?

 

 

Besides triggering CCC the party will behave like idiots (ranged shooting at melee range with no option to tell them to run away is my favorite so far), friendly fire on means you wipe out your whole part without scratching the enemy (I really want to know why they keep that rubbish of asimetry), and so on. Have to micromanage 99.9% of the combat or get TPks.

 

It means they cant be arsed. Also means the game was aimed at consoles.

 

I started playing on Nightmare even tho i knew i wont be able to enjoy the game whit the lack of tactics and healing.

 

So what happens ( after fiddling whit the current tactics and behaivior options).

My inqusitor who is build as a 2h tank, Casandra who is pure tank ( whit really good gear ), Cole as an archer and Viviene as a barrier spamer.

I go forward whit my inqusitor and get the aggro followed by casandra who acts as an oftank. I tell my bloody ranged characters to stay max distance ( Cole do far better dmg at long range as well ) - who do they do ? RUSH IN FUKCING MELE RANGE ?!

But thats not the worst. There is no freaking option to tell them to attack the closes target or the furtherest or whatever - they either follow or deffend a characters - thats all.

 

Oh and even better - you got to fight a dragon .... a freaking fire dragon. So the first thing you are gona expect is AoE fire bassed skills right. So you want your characters to sread out rigth ? Wellllllll sorry brah this game dont work like that. I spread my characters over large area just to see them one second later all bunched in one spot waiting for the fire ball to land on their heads. And there is no bloody way araund that. You can disable the the tactics all toghether and they will still do that crap.

 

You want individual character to go and sit on a position and dont move from it ? Well cool but not in this game. You can give a "hold" order - but that affects all characters ....

 

 

So after 20 hours of no way to deal whti the butchered "tactics" i started a new on hard and atleast i dont suffer frindly fire. That AI is still dumb as **** but at least i dont get one shoted by a single enemy spells couse my companions didnt master the very hard skill "Dont all go sit undear the freaking falling rock from the sky"...

 

 

But hey this is new and streamlined Dragon Age. Made for PC by PC gamers .....

[Vanth]

I must admit though, I did laugh when fighting a giant. Every attack it makes is an AoE knockdown. So what does Varric decide to do? He runs up from range, stands between its legs(!) and fires Long Shot(!) at it. Obviously, it does no damage and reduces his stamina but best is that now he is unable to stand up - by the time he stands, it knocks him down again. Eventually, when I had stopped laughing, I had to take manual control and move him back myself. Of course, he just ran in again...

 

And it is not as if I could use the tac cam for that fight because it was a wooded area and when I pulled back to tac cam, I couldn't see anyone for the trees.

 

Really Bioware, what were you thinking?

[Spenzor Again]

I agree with the opening post. The current system is so streamlined it's unmaneuverable.

[Unkn0wnfear]

Agree 100%. It was still brilliant and highly strategic, considering how much they nerfed the Mage by making their skills less linear, but I really did miss that ai tactics option. Granted we could turn skills on and off and make some preferred, but even if they just added preset options so you could save builds for fighting different type of enemies