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Fix the font! Regular content should always be lower-case.


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#1
atum

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TITLE AND LABELS

...Should be the only items that are upper-case fonts.  Regular content should always be lower-case. 

 

Why on earth did you let some graphic designer (who clearly doesn't read codex entrties) reverse this? 

 

It's a chore to read every note, every quest and every codex entry in the game for no good reason

 

Whoever designed that should be fired educated about typography.  It's the #1 rule! 

 

It is not 'cool' or stylistic to break this rule -- it just makes a bunch of text hard to read.

 

Thank you

/rant


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#2
atum

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Sorry to bump my own post, but in case anyone is wondering why text is harder to read in all caps here's a site that explains it:

 

http://uxmovement.co...-users-to-read/


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#3
Gill Kaiser

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Agreed.
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#4
DragonKill83

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The reason the text in this game is in perceived all caps is because the font this game uses is Copperplate Gothic.  In both real uppercase, and its lowercase fontset, they all use uppercase characters.  The "uppercase" letters are just "taller" than the "lowercase" ones.



#5
atum

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The reason the text in this game is in perceived all caps is because the font this game uses is Copperplate Gothic.  In both real uppercase, and its lowercase fontset, they all use uppercase characters.  The "uppercase" letters are just "taller" than the "lowercase" ones.

 

It's called a small caps font and it has the same readability issue that ALL CAPS do.   It's not a "reason" exactly.  They chose a typeface meant for sinage.  It was Bioware's choice that caused the text to be displayed so illegibly.  

 

This typeface it is the method by which the text appears to be all caps and is blocky and hard to read, though.  You are correct.  But it doesnt make it any easier to read.  Rather it makes it easier to fix.

 

The side effect of what you note is that the text in written in normal sentence casing.  Meaning all they would have to do is use a normal style font and it would all appear fine.  It's an easy fix for them.


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#6
Corto81

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I didn't see it as a huge issue, but they font did seem off somehow, unnatural.

 

Lower case would be better, I'm not sure how much time, effort or money would have to be invested to fix it.

Pretty sure a modder could do it in 2 days though.  :D



#7
atum

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I get where you're coming from.  People with good eyesight possibly wont be as bothered by this, but I think it's a huge mistake and an easily fixable one.  Reading the Codex and especially the QUESTS and CLUES have always been really key aspects of DA.



#8
ownadvocate

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It comes down a subjective opinion, since it hasn't been proven that it's harder to read. In fact, the author of this article (PhD pyschology and author Susan Weinschenk) makes a comment on the article you posted and rebutes with her own research:

 

http://www.blog.thet...harder-to-read/

 

I've actually read her book: 100 Things designers should know about people. I would definitely suggest it because it sounds like I'm talking to another designer.

 

Anyways, I personally like all caps, especially for a medieval time period. But, I can see how it's offputting because it's not done very often.


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#9
brzoz

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It comes down a subjective opinion, since it hasn't been proven that it's harder to read. In fact, the author of this article (PhD pyschology and author Susan Weinschenk) makes a comment on the article you posted and rebutes with her own research:

 

http://www.blog.thet...harder-to-read/

 

I've actually read her book: 100 Things designers should know about people. I would definitely suggest it because it sounds like I'm talking to another designer.

 

Anyways, I personally like all caps, especially for a medieval time period. But, I can see how it's offputting because it's not done very often.

harder to read or not, nobody likes being yelled at by a game. or anything else for that matter.


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#10
mesmerizedish

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100% agree.



#11
Sartoz

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It's called a small caps font and it has the same readability issue that ALL CAPS do.   It's not a "reason" exactly.  They chose a typeface meant for sinage.  It was Bioware's choice that caused the text to be displayed so illegibly.  

 

This typeface it is the method by which the text appears to be all caps and is blocky and hard to read, though.  You are correct.  But it doesnt make it any easier to read.  Rather it makes it easier to fix.

 

The side effect of what you note is that the text in written in normal sentence casing.  Meaning all they would have to do is use a normal style font and it would all appear fine.  It's an easy fix for them.

A normal font style will probably overflow the display window or require a 2nd line of text. Either way, the window display code will require adjustments. In turn, an assessment is required to see what other menus are affected.

 

So, it may not be an easy fix. Doable yes.... easy..hmm...not so sure



#12
mesmerizedish

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A normal font style will probably overflow the display window or require a 2nd line of text. Either way, the window display code will require adjustments. In turn, an assessment is required to see what other menus are affected.

 

So, it may not be an easy fix. Doable yes.... easy..hmm...not so sure

 

Small caps aren't inherently narrower than real minuscule letters. It all depends on the typeface. I'd rather read frickin' Arial than this all-caps bull.


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#13
torq_za

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I agree with the OP. 

 

In copperplate, and all in lowercase, a L is wider than an l. a J is wider than a j. An I is wider than an i. So there should be some space savings, although that shouldn't be a concern as there is already a scrollbar. What is of concern is wanting to read long codexes. 

 

A WALL OF PARAGRAPH TEXT DESCRIBING THE MERITS OF A PARTICULAR ANCIENT ELVEN CULTURE, THAT EXPOUNDS UPON THE MANY VIRTUES OF THIS LOST CIVILISATION - ALL THE WHILE PROVIDING A TREMENDOUS AMOUNT OF DEPTH AND LORE OF A FICTIONAL LAND, AND BY WHICH THIS SMALL EXAMPLE IS BY NO MEANS AS LONG AS SOME OF THE LONGER CODEXES - IS A CHORE TO READ.


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#14
atum

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A normal font style will probably overflow the display window or require a 2nd line of text. Either way, the window display code will require adjustments. In turn, an assessment is required to see what other menus are affected.

 

So, it may not be an easy fix. Doable yes.... easy..hmm...not so sure

 

 

Having worked in graphic design I can say for sure this font is not a narrow one. Almost all small caps fonts are wider than typical font because of kerning pairs and the fact that they are usually (as is the case here) close to monospaced.

 

I agree they would have to check / asses how a different font looks, but the places I am talking about already have line wraping.  I'm talking codex entries and quest dialogs.  They were literally made for lots of flowing text.  It's the place in the UI where you put the really long bits text.  And for some crazy reason they decided to use a hard to read font in those places.

 

There are a few other places like "LOOT"  and "YOUR AGENT IS READY TO REPORT IN" but these would be fine as well, I suspect.

 

I can say with confidence this would be relatively easy. Wrapping text has been a long solved problem.



#15
atum

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I agree with the OP. 

 

In copperplate, and all in lowercase, a L is wider than an l. a J is wider than a j. An I is wider than an i. So there should be some space savings, although that shouldn't be a concern as there is already a scrollbar. What is of concern is wanting to read long codexes. 

 

A WALL OF PARAGRAPH TEXT DESCRIBING THE MERITS OF A PARTICULAR ANCIENT ELVEN CULTURE, THAT EXPOUNDS UPON THE MANY VIRTUES OF THIS LOST CIVILISATION - ALL THE WHILE PROVIDING A TREMENDOUS AMOUNT OF DEPTH AND LORE OF A FICTIONAL LAND, AND BY WHICH THIS SMALL EXAMPLE IS BY NO MEANS AS LONG AS SOME OF THE LONGER CODEXES - IS A CHORE TO READ.

 

This is exactly what I'm talking about.


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#16
SpiritMuse

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harder to read or not, nobody likes being yelled at by a game. or anything else for that matter.

 

I'm not reading it as yelling at all. Normally when someone posts in allcaps I do, but in this case it reads as just normal text. It's the norm, not emphasized compared to something else. Even what torq posted changed from yelling to normal pretty soon.



#17
thanotos omega

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I find it far more readable then Origins or DA:2 so i would prefer it stays.



#18
atum

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I find it far more readable then Origins or DA:2 so i would prefer it stays.

 

No one is suggesting they remove it, nor is that in any way a reasonable basis for comparision.

 

 

You didnt type your post in ALL CAPS, WHY DO YOU THINK THAT IS?

 

Print books aren't in ALL CAPS, WHY DO YOU THINK THAT IS?

 

 

Try to not miss the point here.


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#19
Kantr

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Why do people find it so hard to read?


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#20
atum

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Why do people find it so hard to read?

 

See this link:

http://uxmovement.co...-users-to-read/

 

It explains it. 

 

This is a LONG known rule of typography. 

 

People read by seeing the shapes of words.  If text is in all caps, that shape is almost always more like a rectangle.  This makes it harder to see at a glance what the word is.


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#21
Kantr

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Can't say I've had a problem, although it is a bit disconcerting



#22
Dubya75

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I agree.

 

Initially, I could not figure out why I tire so much from reading things, then I realized THAT EVERYTHING IS BLOODY UPPERCASE!!!



#23
torq_za

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Wikipedia

 

 

Miles Tinker, renowned for his landmark work, Legibility of Print, performed scientific studies on the legibility and readability of all-capital print. His findings were as follows:

All-capital print greatly retards speed of reading in comparison with lower-case type. Also, most readers judge all capitals to be less legible. Faster reading of the lower-case print is due to the characteristic word forms furnished by this type. This permits reading by word units, while all capitals tend to be read letter by letter. Furthermore, since all-capital printing takes at least one-third more space than lower case, more fixation pauses are required for reading the same amount of material. The use of all capitals should be dispensed with in every printing situation.[9]

According to Tinker, “As early as 1914, Starch reported that material set in Roman lower case was read somewhat faster than similar material printed in all capitals.”[10] Another study in 1928 showed that “all-capital text was read 11.8 percent slower than lower case, or approximately 38 words per minute slower,”[11] and that “nine tenths of adult readers consider lower case more legible than all capitals.”[12]

A 1955 study by Miles Tinker showed that “all-capital text retarded speed of reading from 9.5 to 19.0 percent for the 5 and 10-minute time limits, and 13.9 percent for the whole 20-minute period.”[13] Tinker concluded that, “Obviously, all-capital printing slows reading to a marked degree in comparison with Roman lower case.” [12]

Tinker provides the following explanations for why all capital printing is more difficult to read:

Text in all capitals covers about 35 percent more printing surface than the same material set in lower case. This would tend to increase the reading time. When this is combined with the difficulty in reading words in all-capital letters as units, the hindrance to rapid reading becomes marked. In the eye-movement study by Tinker and Patterson, the principal difference in oculomotor patterns between lower case and all capitals was the very large increase in number of fixation pauses for reading the all-capital print.[14]

All caps text should be eliminated from most forms of composition, according to Tinker: “Considering the evidence that all-capital printing retards speed of reading to a striking degree in comparison with lower case and is not liked by readers, it would seem wise to eliminate such printing whenever rapid reading and consumer (reader) views are of importance. Examples of this would include any continuous reading material, posters, bus cards, billboards, magazine advertising copy, headings in books, business forms and records, titles of articles, books and book chapters, and newspaper headlines.”[15]

Colin Wheildon stated that there is an "apparent consensus" that lower-case text is more legible, but that some editors continue to use all caps in text regardless. In his studies of all caps in headlines, he states that, "Editors who favor capitals claim that they give greater emphasis. Those who prefer lower case claim their preferences gives greater legibility." Wheildon, who informs us that "When a person reads a line of type, the eye recognizes letters by the shapes of their upper halves," asserts that recognizing words in all caps "becomes a task instead of a natural process."[16] His conclusions, based on scientific testing in 1982–1990, are: "Headlines set in capital letters are significantly less legible than those set in lower case."[17]

John Ryder, in the Case for Legibility, stated that "Printing with capital letters can be done sufficiently well to arouse interest and, with short lines, reading at a slowed speed is possible – but in principle too many factors of low legibility are involved."[18]

Other critics are of the opinion that all caps letters in text are often "too tightly packed against each other".[19]


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#24
atum

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Thanks for the quote & link torq.  So yeah, it's something that has been known for at least 100 years. 

 

 

BioWare!  Teach your draphic designers :)


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#25
Remmirath

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Yeah, I agree. This is, of course, less urgent than some things -- it's an annoyance, rather than anything impeding anyone's progress through the game -- but it is unnecessarily tiring to read subtitles and large codex entries in all upper-case.
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