And Fiona wasn't suspicious enough of Alexius' motives to do a little digging?
I suppose that's fair, you'd have to be a former slave or something to distrust a glorious magister!
How? She doesn't have a Tevinter spy network, and the Venatori thing was being kept quiet.
How? She doesn't have a Tevinter spy network, and the Venatori thing was being kept quiet.
Did she even ask how he got there so quickly? Why he would bother traveling all the way from Tevinter to pick up a few hundred lackeys? Anything?
Because it's starting to seem like she's kind of an idiot.
I mean that whole "**** the Divine" bit kind of already makes her look like an idiot but you know... even more so.
I guess it is good to know that mages really CAN'T live up to the ideals they claim to hold so dearly when it matters. Makes putting her down at Haven even easier.
Did she even ask how he got there so quickly? Why he would bother traveling all the way from Tevinter to pick up a few hundred lackeys? Anything?
He was in the area already for whatever reason? Nevarra and Tevinter were certainly having dealings, albeit harsh ones, so there'd be reason enough for a bunch of Tevinter envoys to have come into the south.
I guess it is good to know that mages really CAN'T live up to the ideals they claim to hold so dearly when it matters. Makes putting her down at Haven even easier.
Nah. No abomination outbreaks in camp anywhere ever. They've kept it together very nicely; I don't, in fact, think I've ever fought an abomination this whole game. The mage rebels are far better about handling themselves than Circle mages, in fact.
it was because of Dorian, wasn't it?
The only reason why I would side with the mages for once is because of extra time with Dorian. Mission-wise I vastly prefer Champions of the Just.
Having finally done both sides as of today, I have to say I enjoyed Redcliffe much better than the Templar route. The mission was much better imo, and the way the music tied in was superb.
Nah. No abomination outbreaks in camp anywhere ever. They've kept it together very nicely; I don't, in fact, think I've ever fought an abomination this whole game. The mage rebels are far better about handling themselves than Circle mages, in fact.
"We're fighting for Freedom!" "Better sign on with Tevinter though cause we're losing the stupid war we wanted!"
>Fighting for Freedom
>Joins TEVINTER
You don't get to do the second and claim the first.
I'm just like to make the point that none of the three mage companions are even slightly bothered by siding with the templars. and cullen and cass are both templars so....
Nah. No abomination outbreaks in camp anywhere ever. They've kept it together very nicely; I don't, in fact, think I've ever fought an abomination this whole game. The mage rebels are far better about handling themselves than Circle mages, in fact.
Um.... no. The reason there are no abominations is because demons have no need to possess mages in order to enter the mortal world. Now they may do a better job than the Circles would, but the events in-game are not a good example to judge.
I'm just like to make the point that none of the three mage companions are even slightly bothered by siding with the templars. and cullen and cass are both templars so....
Nobody is bothered by siding with the mages either. There is only disagreement over the question of how to deal with the templars/mages after their respective missions (conscription or full alliance).
Mages CHOSE to ally with Tevinter (and the Venatori), and deserves no mercy. The corruption of the Templars were forced upon them. Always the Templars.
The mages were manipulated by their desperation to fight for their freedom into the alliance, which Fiona didn't know anything about and couldn't afford to turn down at the time since she had no allies to call upon.
The Templars are oppressive assholes, even if they weren't blindly obedient to an envy demon and none of them even realized it. Some 'experts' they are.
yeah for mage/demon hunters they seem ill equiped to discern a demonThe mages were manipulated by their desperation to fight for their freedom into the alliance, which Fiona didn't know anything about and couldn't afford to turn down at the time since she had no allies to call upon. The Templars are oppressive assholes, even if they weren't blindly obedient to an envy demon and none of them even realized it. Some 'experts' they are.
That is completely false. We meet several mages (both in the Hinterlands/Redcliffe and during wartable missions) who don't support Fiona's rebellion but are still hunted.
Not by the Chantry or any organized power.
That is what we were referring to, was it not? That the mages would be hunted and lynched by powers that would sanction such things?
If your concern is that unorganized individuals hate and fear mages enough to try and kill them outside of the tower... well, how was that not an accepted risk at the vote for independence?
Vivienne leads all of the loyal mages, and not a single one is being targeted by the Templars at large, and actually fought for the other side.
Hardly. They didn't make any deals with demons, which was the main argument up until now. Also, it seems fairly clear that Alexius lied about his actual terms, and went much farther once he was in Redcliffe than he said he would go
Le gasp! Being of unknown ambition and intention serving unknown masters might lie to the magi for reasons they aren't perfectly forthcoming about? No one could be expected to be on guard against such things!
Except, you know, mages. Because of the demon thing.
Face it, the only reason they weren't making deals with demons was because someone worse got to them first.
--not to mention that there was never any hint of his enslaving people, so I don't know where anyone got that idea.
Possibly because both he and Fiona agreed it? Explicitly? Indentured servitude is still servitude, and a form of slavery.
In any case, the templars started out evil. The mages screwed up, but there's no way in any hell or earth that I'd side with the templars.
So what? You've argued Anders as a sane and moral man. Your moral condemnations impress me less than most.
Because Tevinter couldn't possibly hold onto an outpost that far south with no supply lines, and because the option to get a huge load of indentured southern allies would be a major boon to Alexius' power base. The deal when played straight would seem quite beneficial to him. Actually holding Redcliffe would make no sense at all--unless he had a completely different plan in mind that Fiona would have had no way of knowing about, which he did.
The fact that Tevinter couldn't possibly hold onto Redcliffe is a pretty damning indicator that his actual objective was the mages themselves, for ulterior motives. If Fiona had no way of knowing about that, then she wasn't thinking.
Mages who can't spot obvious deceptions and identify known unknowns are dangerous to everyone.
slacery is permant generally indentured serventude is only temporary (say this loosely) and if you conscript them it happens anyway so why dangle freedom when half the fanbase will side with templarsLe gasp! Being of unknown ambition and intention serving unknown masters might lie to the magi for reasons they aren't perfectly forthcoming about? No one could be expected to be on guard against such things! Except, you know, mages. Because of the demon thing. Face it, the only reason they weren't making deals with demons was because someone worse got to them first. Possibly because both he and Fiona agreed it? Explicitly? Indentured servitude is still servitude, and a form of slavery. So what? You've argued Anders as a sane and moral man. Your moral condemnations impress me less than most.
slacery is permant generally indentured serventude is only temporary (say this loosely)
You say it loosely because neither of those are inherently true. Slavery can be temporary. Indentured servitude can be indefinite and even cross generations.
and if you conscript them it happens anyway so why dangle freedom when half the fanbase will side with templars
For the same reason Dalish enthusiasts occassionally get their own carrots to jangle and proclaim the Dalish worldviews- for roleplaying opportunity, not because it's necessarily true.
Both the mage independence movement and the renegade Templars get more than a few knocks in DAI. If DA2 celebrated the revolutionary outcasts, DAI is the vindication of order and security that people desire in times of upheaval. Even the mages.
thats one way to look at it im just bummed its over i wanted chaos not a subplot that ends in 20 minutes and tbh i saw more crazy magi than crazy templars/seekers. Thought it was downplayed again imoYou say it loosely because neither of those are inherently true. Slavery can be temporary. Indentured servitude can be indefinite and even cross generations. For the same reason Dalish enthusiasts occassionally get their own carrots to jangle and proclaim the Dalish worldviews- for roleplaying opportunity, not because it's necessarily true. Both the mage independence movement and the renegade Templars get more than a few knocks in DAI. If DA2 celebrated the revolutionary outcasts, DAI is the vindication of order and security that people desire in times of upheaval. Even the mages.
The war has been going on for almost two years and both sides are depleted. Second, what is your point? Does the fact that mages running amuck being wrong scare you? Turns out trying to assassinate the Divine, twice, is bad and makes people distrust you.
running amuck doesnt scare me it actually entertains me and i wanted more negatives to be shown on both sides. I wanted a destopian ending for both groups. Somewhat still sore i didnt get it XDThe war has been going on for almost two years and both sides are depleted. Second, what is your point? Does the fact that mages running amuck being wrong scare you? Turns out trying to assassinate the Divine, twice, is bad and makes people distrust you.
That kind of defeats the purpose, honestly. There's no reason either groups should "fall into chaos" that spans the content when they have no resources.
They actually needed an option where the Inquisitor could convince both groups (with enough power) that Corypheus was wrong, the the Venatori were wrong and that more was at stake than the Templars personal worldviews on Mages (particularly those of Lucius and Lambert that the only way to solve the problem was to commit genocide gainst mages, and the similar view shared by more radical elements amongst the rebel mages e.g. Anders that the same should be done to the Templars) Since Corypheus goal much like that of the Architect (wonder how much he was influenced by Corypheus?) was to either enslave and control the world or to destroy it .. I think that the more rational minds amongst the Templars and Mages would recognize that the end of the world wouldn't be good for either of them since Corypheus hates the Chantry, hates the Maker, and hates the Mages becaused even his fellow magisters other than the one's known to have gone with them didn't support him. Ultimately it would result in both groups being wiped out if the Inquisitor fails.. Unfortunately the way the story plays out most of those more rational minds were killed at the Conclave and you as the Inquisitor are left with the table scraps
Um.... no. The reason there are no abominations is because demons have no need to possess mages in order to enter the mortal world. Now they may do a better job than the Circles would, but the events in-game are not a good example to judge.
So Vivienne, Cullen and everyone else who claimed these events would raise the risk to mages are completely wrong? Shame we never had a chance to say that.
Both the mage independence movement and the renegade Templars get more than a few knocks in DAI. If DA2 celebrated the revolutionary outcasts, DAI is the vindication of order and security that people desire in times of upheaval. Even the mages.
Happily, I can lead the revolution to victory anyway.
but think of the fun to punish both groups. I mean we can "pacify" dalish clans why cant we "pacify" them all. All i saying we have missed oppurtunity. Think about my friend reseting thing to 0That kind of defeats the purpose, honestly. There's no reason either groups should "fall into chaos" that spans the content when they have no resources.
So Vivienne, Cullen and everyone else who claimed these events would raise the risk to mages are completely wrong? Shame we never had a chance to say that.
The only people who claim this are those who have an unreasonable fear of the rebels or have a bias toward the templars, and they are therefore an unreliable source of information. From what we observe in-game, we do not see abominations and it logically makes no sense for more abominations to appear.
With this understanding, it is unreasonable to make the argument that the rebel mages are in any way better at avoiding possession. Claiming it to be the case is purely conjecture on your part as the circumstances introduce separate variables which make a balanced assessment impossible.
The mage quest was very emotional and really shows you what the stakes are. I enjoyed it immensely.
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