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[Tevinter Soldier]

That was the Seekers' leader, not the Templars' technically. The Templars were lead by what they believed to be the Seekers, yet they were manipulated and mind-controlled. The mages, no matter how you twist and turn it, CHOSE their allegiance to the Tevinter and Venatori.

 

notice how you use the excuse their leader. when it was the mages leader who signed the deed there's many mages in redcliff pissed about it.

 

and signing a deal with tevinter was atleast understandable, they needed protection and here was tevinter on their doorstep promising it. they are a nation run by mages who have stood for over 2000 years and survive even the qunari.

 

stupid yes a stupid act made in desperation. but what were the mages who objected going to do? they leave redcliff get called apostates and are back to being hunted down like dog's. attempt to fight and they have to kill the venatori and their fellow mages? they were simply trapped by fiona's decision.

 

just as the templars were trapped by the lord seekers plans.

the difference being fiona acted out of desperation to survive.

the lord seeker? he really, really, really wanted to kill people.

 

sure fiona was stupid to accept the deal with alexius............. but their was no malice in her actions, she was trying to protect people, You cannot say the same for the lord seeker.

[ComedicSociopathy]

I disagree. Yes I do believe Ferelden would sit back and let the templars kill the mages. Despite whatever Alistair's good intentions are, we've seen how his efforts to reform the circle even for his circle grey warden friend was overruled by the chantry and the templars. You think Ferelden who just went through a blight are willing to fight another war on behalf of refugees? Not all nobles are that noble sadly.

 

Indentured servitude was a better alternative then being slaughtered, that is the templars' justice for any apostate. That is the truth.

 

*Shrug*

 

You see things one way and I see them another. That's fine by me. Anyways were taking about hypotheticals here and after doing that time travel mission in Redcliffe I'm thoroughly done with trying to predicate the myraid of possibilities that the future may hold.   

[Adanu]

But he wasn't offering safe passage to Tevinter, he was offering indentured servitude for several years in exchange for his help. The whole mage rebellion is founded on mages being allowed personal freedoms, and yet Fiona would turn them into slaves just for chance of survival. Furthermore, do you really think that Ferelden would just sit back and allow a bunch of templars to attack one their greatest villages. No. Alistair or Anora would have gone to war with the templars and defended their wards. To leave them for dead or sell them out would have made them weak in the eyes of every nation in Thedas and would have allowed the rogue templars and foothold in their very lands. So while I may be empathic with their situation logic would dictate that they side with their Felelden allies then the Venatori. 

 

Death or servitude with a possibility of becoming a citizen in a nation that doesn't want to kill you long term... I know what I'd pick.

 

It's not ideal, but ideals don't deflect swords. She compromised short term freedom for a chance of survival. She's not stupid, just trying to find a way to keep her fellow mages alive. There was no Hawke to help this time.

[Wolfbrotther]

Well I didn't make my decision yet, but I was spoiled and I heard that

Spoiler

Leliana dies

Does that depend on this decision in particular or is that part of the story and can't be changed? Because I don't want her to die...

[The Baconer]

That's like comparing the avalanche at Haven to blood magic. Just because both are really stupid to do, doesn't make them related. Especially considering they don't actually know what it is. 

 

They are related because they represent two magical sources of great power that are prone to corrupting the minds and bodies of those who use it. Users of these sources of power will rationalize their choices by calling them "tools" that can be used for good or evil. When things go to **** because of their poor decisions, users will then proceed to blame everyone else in the immediate vicinity while claiming that they never had a choice.

[Tevinter Soldier]

Well I didn't make my decision yet, but I was spoiled and I heard that

Spoiler

Leliana dies

Does that depend on this decision in particular or is that part of the story and can't be changed?

 

Spoiler

its an alternate timeline. its actually a really god mission far better then the templar plot

[Br3admax]

They are related because they represent two magical sources of great power that are prone to corrupting the minds and bodies of those who use it. Users of these sources of power will rationalize their choices by calling them "tools" that can be used for good or evil. When things go to **** because of their poor decisions, users will then proceed to blame everyone else in the immediate vicinity while claiming that they never had a choice.

That describes literally everything that can kill something. Even normal lyrium can be described in that way. Reasons can be applied to anything, honestly. 

This discussion is kind of pointless, though. The mages used red lyrium as well in Redcliffe. Mostly because all the cool kids were.

Well I didn't make my decision yet, but I was spoiled and I heard that

Spoiler

Leliana dies

Does that depend on this decision in particular or is that part of the story and can't be changed? Because I don't want her to die...

Spoiler

You go back in time and stop it from happening.

[Br3admax]

Spoiler

its an alternate timeline. its actually a really god mission far better then the templar plot

lol, no it's not. It's terrible. With shitty writing and awful people.Add in time travel and it's reached dumbasfuck status. I wish one mage there, one would actually fight with us against Alexius. But nope. They just bowed down and sold themselves into servitude. Good job. 

[Wolfbrotther]

Spoiler

its an alternate timeline. its actually a really god mission far better then the templar plot

 

 

Spoiler

You go back in time and stop it from happening.

 

Thank you guys, that's relieving!!!

[The Baconer]

That describes literally everything that can kill something. Even normal lyrium can be described in that way. Reasons can be applied to anything, honestly. 

This discussion is kind of pointless, though. The mages used red lyrium as well in Redcliffe. Mostly because all the cool kids were.

 

That's just like the "A guy can pick up a sword and kill people, why don't we lock up dudes with swords like we do mages!?!?" argument. Blood magic received its particular stigma because of the acute danger that comes with the level of power it offers, how it affects the minds of its users, and the level of harm it can bring to others. Red Lyrium is the same in this regard, and even worse in others.

[Tevinter Soldier]

lol, no it's not. It's terrible. With shitty writing and awful people.Add in time travel and it's reached dumbasfuck status. I wish one mage there, one would actually fight with us against Alexius. But nope. They just bowed down and sold themselves into servitude. Good job. 

 

yes because templars trained to fight and detect and protect people from demons not realising half their base has turned into mindless monsters being lead by a demon just screams great writing. 

 

At least the mage plot makes sense, scared people acting out of desperation. hell when you walk into the church to investigate you aren't even "fighting" alexius at that point, or were you expecting that in future a few loyal survivors of the venatori decide to switch allegiances from the demon army that took over the world and crushed all opposition because you managed to break out of a jail cell?

 

not mention it gel's so much better with the following mission, magic channelled through you cole knocking on the door, finding out about the point of rifts, you see what your really fighting against.

 

and defeating them means you see stuff all venatori throughout the game while the red templars are all over place anyway because hey............. it was the cool thing to do.

[dragonflight288]

I played through the templars the first time because I didn't trust Tevinter, reloaded my save after and tried the mages questline instead because I didn't want to see Tevinter as a growing power in Ferelden.

 

Leliana wasn't happy that I chose to conscript the mages rather than have them as allies, but Cullen had no problems with it. 

 

Sure, long before the game came out, I advocated that the mages could take the opportunity to prove they were ready to handle the responsibilities freedom brought. Fiona at the very least proved they were not. 

 

Went with that playthrough mainly because I didn't want to play through one of them again. 

[Lulupab]

lol, no it's not. It's terrible. With shitty writing and awful people.Add in time travel and it's reached dumbasfuck status. I wish one mage there, one would actually fight with us against Alexius. But nope. They just bowed down and sold themselves into servitude. Good job.

 

That's entirely subjective. For example its the only way to know the origin of the mark and Alexius has tevinter elite body guards, when the Inquisition armies arrives and kills the Tevinter units the mages pretty much surrender, which is wise.

 

Also I'd suspect you'd want to do this:

 

Spoiler

Make Akexius a tranquil

 

This can only be done if you are a mage and side with mages. if you side with Templars:

 

Spoiler

Dorian blandly tells you Alexius has been killed

[Dark Helmet]

That's entirely subjective. For example its the only way to know the origin of the mark and Alexius has tevinter elite body guards, when the Inquisition armies arrives and kills the Tevinter units the mages pretty much surrender, which is wise.

 

Also I'd suspect you'd want to do this:

 

Spoiler

Make Akexius a tranquil

 

This can only be done if you are a mage and side with mages. if you side with Templars:

 

Spoiler

Dorian blandly tells you Alexius has been killed

 

Nope, Killing Fiona is worth more than getting rid of Alexius.

 

So much more.

[TK514]

The guy I wanted to make Tranquil was

 

Spoiler

the one who duped the Wardens.  At his Judgement he goes on and on about how if you execute him then he will be in the Fade with his living god etc etc.  I really wanted to say "Oh?  Well, just so happens we have a way to prevent that..."

[EmperorSahlertz]

notice how you use the excuse their leader. when it was the mages leader who signed the deed there's many mages in redcliff pissed about it.

 

and signing a deal with tevinter was atleast understandable, they needed protection and here was tevinter on their doorstep promising it. they are a nation run by mages who have stood for over 2000 years and survive even the qunari.

 

stupid yes a stupid act made in desperation. but what were the mages who objected going to do? they leave redcliff get called apostates and are back to being hunted down like dog's. attempt to fight and they have to kill the venatori and their fellow mages? they were simply trapped by fiona's decision.

 

just as the templars were trapped by the lord seekers plans.

the difference being fiona acted out of desperation to survive.

the lord seeker? he really, really, really wanted to kill people.

 

sure fiona was stupid to accept the deal with alexius............. but their was no malice in her actions, she was trying to protect people, You cannot say the same for the lord seeker.

The difference being, that the mages unhappy with the deal, could leave. The Templars never got the chance.

[The Baconer]

The difference being, that the mages unhappy with the deal, could leave.

 

With the Venatori controlling who comes and goes from the village and the rift right outside the gate? I wish them luck.

[Br3admax]

That's just like the "A guy can pick up a sword and kill people, why don't we lock up dudes with swords like we do mages!?!?" argument. Blood magic received its particular stigma because of the acute danger that comes with the level of power it offers, how it affects the minds of its users, and the level of harm it can bring to others. Red Lyrium is the same in this regard, and even worse in others.

That was kind of my point, it's something dangerous that has a dumb excuse to be used. That's not really a blood magic equivalent. Well it is just as dangerous, but it not exactly comparable. More akin to the Architect's plan than anything, especially considering both are using the Blight. 

 

The difference being, that the mages unhappy with the deal, could leave. The Templars never got the chance.

Exactly. 

[Lulupab]

With the Venatori controlling who comes and goes from the village and the Rift right outside the gate? I wish them luck.

 

This.

 

There are quite many Templars in Inquisition army already before choosing to help either mages and templars. Templars who stayed are cowards who gave into their addiction and satisfying their addiction became a priority. As I said many times the biggest flaw of templar order is blind obedience. I'd like to remind you no crime is excused in any country if its done in name of addiction, getting high or drunk etc... because getting in that state was your choice so you bear all the consequences for it. Templars who stayed, stayed because they craved their junk and later were imprisoned. Big deal, they had the chance to leave previously but they didn't.

[dragonflight288]

With the Venatori controlling who comes and goes from the village and the rift right outside the gate? I wish them luck.

 

Also, Fiona says that the mages were indentured.

 

They were essentially slaves of Tevinter, willingly entering it out of desperation. 

 

Both sides have goods and bads, and both sides leaders made really bad decisions. 

[The Baconer]

That was kind of my point, it's something dangerous that has a dumb excuse to be used. That's not really a blood magic equivalent. Well it is just as dangerous, but it not exactly comparable. More akin to the Architect's plan than anything, especially considering both are using the Blight.

 

Its power and the reasons why one would turn to it are exactly what makes it an analogue to blood magic. Bioware themselves deliberately brought attention to the connection rather bluntly through Barris' dialogue.

[Dean_the_Young]

The guy I wanted to make Tranquil was

 

Spoiler

the one who duped the Wardens.  At his Judgement he goes on and on about how if you execute him then he will be in the Fade with his living god etc etc.  I really wanted to say "Oh?  Well, just so happens we have a way to prevent that..."

 

You can... if you're a mage.

 

It even spawns a near-mutiny of mage conscripts in response.

[EmperorSahlertz]

With the Venatori controlling who comes and goes from the village and the rift right outside the gate? I wish them luck.

The Venatori didn't seem to prevent the Inquisitor from comming and going (before "In Hushed Whispers" is started), so I'm gonna chalk the lack of mage initiative to leave, up to them not wanting to.

[dragonflight288]

The Venatori didn't seem to prevent the Inquisitor from comming and going (before "In Hushed Whispers" is started), so I'm gonna chalk the lack of mage initiative to leave, up to them not wanting to.

 

Or them being indentured and the Venatori was less concerned about a fledgling Inquisition than they were about their new servants. 

 

Just saying its possible. 

[EmperorSahlertz]

Or them being indentured and the Venatori was less concerned about a fledgling Inquisition than they were about their new servants. 

 

Just saying its possible. 

It is indeed. But you don't hear about any. You DO actually hear about Templars who spoke up, and what happened to them.