308 réponses à ce sujet

[AceHalberd]

See, you had me agreeing with you up until you started using terms like 'agenda' and that. I wouldn't say it's written with any agenda beyond 'trying to cash in on the pink dollar' and 'misguided attempt to properly represent gay people'. But gay people don't meet up in secret society meetings like the Illuminati to discuss how to manipulate the world through their intricate network of hair salons and roller derbies. Good representation and portrayl is a good thing, and it's incredibly easy to overlook just how little of it there is for gay/lesbian folk compared to straight folk. Imagine you lived in a world where everything was gay, with just a few straight things here and there. It would be...a bit annoying, because it'd not only not cater to your interests whilst shoving those of other's in your face, it'd also make you feel left out.

That being said however, Dragon Age does seem to go a bit hard with it: I do think that there's far too many gay/lesbian characters in the series, which is a tad unrealistic. There are more gay people than non-white people, for goodness sakes. It feels like pretty much every female NPC of importance turns out to be a lesbian or bisexual. It motivated by good intentions though, as it allows representation, inclusivity and options; it might just be interesting to come across a straight female NPC that isn't Anora, Aveline or Cassandra once in a while though, for diversity's sake. It's a fine line to walk I guess.

[mikeymoonshine]

That was aimed at me, right? No, that wasn't really a joke response.  Social justice, egalitarianism, privilege and human rights, these are neither trivial nor simple issues. This is especially true when you come to the point of addressing specific indivual actions vs overall patterns of behavior. It's deeply complicated stuff. Passions run high, there are bound to be occasional excesses from all "sides" of the issue. However, waving a flag for attention and then arbitrarily declaring that both sides are wrong (whatever that even means) and dismissing the whole issue as though it is beneath you, well, let's just say it looks like posturing and I am unimpressed.

 

It feels like you ignored what I actually wrote in the comments you are responding to. 

 

Yes they are all serious issues and I never claimed they weren't. I claimed the current discussion on social justice and representation in video games was idiotic specifically because of the way some people go about discussing it. 

 

I find it interesting that you characterize my comment as attention seeking and then claim that this makes me look attention seeking. Also I really don't get this whole thing about me thinking I am so much better than everyone else. I mean it's not like I have responded to dozens of comments in this thread with cute little gifs and memes simply mock and antagonize others for the views they expressed. 

 

Not that I am saying there is anything wrong with that, most of those people were idiots but you are being a bit of a hypocrite, i'm sorry. 

[Nathair Nimheil]

It feels like pretty much every female NPC of importance turns out to be a lesbian or bisexual.

Leliana (DAO), now Josephine and Sera.

 

Did I miss someone? 'cause that looks like a bit less than "every female NPC of importance."

[Tyloric]

Leliana (DAO), now Josephine and Sera.
 
Did I miss someone? 'cause that looks like a bit less than "every female NPC of importance."

Are we not counting Isabella and Merill? :0

Then again, everyone in DA2 was bi so that's not a great example.

[SebastianP]

Leliana (DAO), now Josephine and Sera.

 

Did I miss someone? 'cause that looks like a bit less than "every female NPC of importance."

Hyperbole is the best thing ever 

[Nathair Nimheil]

Then again, everyone in DA2 was bi so that's not a great example.

Exactly.

[AceHalberd]

Are we not counting Isabella and Merill? :0

Then again, everyone in DA2 was bi so that's not a great example.

And Divine Justinia V, Celene, Briala, Marjolaine, Branka, Hespeth off the top of my head (excluding very minor characters like that elf serving chick you can sleep with as a female Human noble). I guess thinking about it more there's a lot of (mostly assumed to be) straight companions via Dragon Age Origins and Awakening, it just feels there's a lot of lesbians and bisexual females within the Dragon Age universe, especially compared to representation of straight females and gay males. It just feels oddly skewed, but that's merely my interpretation I suppose.

[Nathair Nimheil]

Also I really don't get this whole thing about me thinking I am so much better than everyone else.

Sorry, I was trying to be clear. It was the way you jumped in to the discussion to announce that the "discussion is soo stupid" and that "Both sides are wrong and full of unreasonable idiots" without taking any kind of position of your own, explaining yourself in any way or even attempting to justify your remarks.

 

You can't just stand up in the middle of the discussion and say "This is a stupid discussion, you are all wrong and most of you are idiots!" and then sit back down looking rather smug without people raising an eyebrow or two. Ya know?

[Nathair Nimheil]

And Divine Justinia V, Celene, Briala, Marjolaine, Branka, Hespeth

I'd forgotten a couple of those. Still if we're down to Hespith level NPCs you'd better count Ritts. Still seems like a pretty small percentage of a huge list of NPCs.

[mikeymoonshine]

Sorry, I was trying to be clear. It was the way you jumped in to the discussion to announce that the "discussion is soo stupid" and that "Both sides are wrong and full of unreasonable idiots" without taking any kind of position of your own, explaining yourself in any way or even attempting to justify your remarks.

 

You can't just stand up in the middle of the discussion and say "This is a stupid discussion, you are all wrong and most of you are idiots!" and then sit back down looking rather smug without people raising an eyebrow or two. Ya know?

 

True, you have a point. I was referring to some specific posts about bioware being part of some social justice agenda blah blah, but I wasn't clear on that when i probably should have been. I wasn't referring to everyone who gets involved in such discussions or even the majority of people commenting here.

 

Still though the discussion which is a huge thing right now is mostly just people shouting each other and trying to make the other side look really bad and it honestly is coming from both sides. Ofc the loudest voices do not represent the majority but I think they have managed to derail anything helpful that could have come from this. 

 

Anyway, I am sorry for not being clearer. I was referring to the current state of a discussion but I didn't mean to accuse everyone in it of being idiots although I can see why it came across that way. 

[droitdivin]

On a side note, have you seen Orlesians? It's like an average dragparty, I'd imagine. 

[Alya_]

Damn you people! This thread was comedy gold, why did you have to start with the serious arguments again?

 

[Alya_]

Yeah, just imagine too much justice. What a nightmare!

 

 

 

overdosing is always bad and aggravate the receiver

[Bhaal]

Yeah OP is right! There is a gay agenda and this s*** going on since ancient Greeks. By the way do you know some of Bioware developers are descended from ancient Greeks? I don't, but makes sense right?

[MadMaximoff]

Too much justice? I think that was what happened to DA2 Anders.




The impression I got is that Tevinter does not outright oppose it for its own sake but instead is very focused on creating "the perfect bloodline" and thus has a large focus on straight "breeding" couples.

It seems pretty clean cut that it's frowned upon in Tevinter Nobility, not illegal but it's enough to damage a families Standing in the Magisterium.

[AceHalberd]

I'd forgotten a couple of those. Still if we're down to Hespith level NPCs you'd better count Ritts. Still seems like a pretty small percentage of a huge list of NPCs.

Ritts too, true. And yeah, it kind of does, except a lot of the other NPCs never have their sexuality or prior relationships mentioned, so we just assume they're straight because it's the 'defualt'. The closest thing to Ritts situation is that guy whose lover was on the way to the Fade Cult fort and got shanked, but the presentation is rather different; although both involve dead lovers, Ritts' situation is presented much more sexually than the other's. Certainly not against there being a fair amount of lesbian or bisexual female characters, it just seems a bit oddly skewered towards lesbians in my opinion (compared to straight females or even the counterpart of gay males), which makes me somewhat concerned things could be drifting from 'good representation' to 'put in lesbians because they sell'. But, that could just be the pessimist in me worrying about nothing - Bioware isn't exactly that company, even when owned by EA.

[Wulfram]

I think the association of the decadent and amoral Orlesian court with homosexuality is problematic, because it seems to derive from tropes that would see homosexuality as part of that amorality and decadence.

I mean, I think it's fairly obvious from other stuff that Bioware doesn't intend it that way, but it does bug me a touch.

[Kantr]

Hey look! Another homophobic OP giving BSN a bad reputation.

[Teddie Sage]

Be right back, I got lots of sausages waiting to be devoured... 

[Chiramu]

The last person who was condemned for having a homosexual relationship in Orlais and found out about it was exiled to rule Ferelden during the Orlesian occupation.

 

Anyway, homosexuality would happen in court, but it would be kept secret. Much like Celene's hidden romance with Briala.

[Geth Supremacy]

Why are homophobes so obsessed with getting things shoved down their throats?

If you read the OP and think he is a homophobe you are a complete idiot.  he clearly was not and anybody who read the OP would know this.

 

its a very common figure of speech used for many different situations.

[Muspade]

I think its a good thing when Bioware include homosexuality as a normal aspect without prejudice. However there is a point where they're deliberately trying to shove it down your throats

Spoiler

[Nathair Nimheil]

Ritts' situation is presented much more sexually than the other's.

Having a picnic?

[Primula Nightfall]

This thread makes me think about all the times heterosexuality has been shoved down my throat in previous games...

 

King Cailan is is married to Anora, a woman? Stop forcing your heterosexual agenda on me Bioware!

 

Heterosexuality is being shoved down your throat in real life as well.

 

Cause, you know - that's how most of the time things work.

Homosexuality is NOT the common thing.

It would be problematic for the survival of the species if it was, tbh.

 

One think I found "funny" was that, in the Dorian personal quest, you could not say "Hey dude, your father did the right thing". In a RPG which is all about choice, you have NO CHOICE at all on this matter.

In this game you can pretty much decide if you want to KILL PEOPLE or not - but Maker forbid, making comments against homosexuality is strictly forbidden. It seems it's ways worse than killing tons of people.

 

And players still believe BioWare is not doing extensive social commentary with this game.

 

 

At any rate, I find hilarious how feminists tend to be rather intollerant towards ANYONE not sharing their views.

Talk about being coherent.