308 réponses à ce sujet

[Catche Jagger]

Kinda foppish, now that I think about it. That's not too good.

[Nathair Nimheil]

And how is religion relevant, now? I never spoken about "religious intolerance". Why do you think the two things are necessarily connected?

Because history.

[Primula Nightfall]

Yes ofc, focus on the silly example and ignore that actual point. 

 

It is a choice that bioware does not allow you to make, in that sense it is the same. There are many of these and many reasons as to why. 

 

 

The "Default State" (odd way of putting it) is a lot of things, last time I checked mages weren't all that common either. 

 

I feel like you are trying to make some kind of evolutionary argument, i'm not sure why you keep banging on about survival being the objective. We are talking about video games here. 

 

I'm sorry that you feel a few gay characters equates to homosexuality being spammed everywhere and I don't see what is wrong with making minorities happy. All of this is sort of irrelevant to the discussion about why we can't be anti gay in DA:I though. 

 

But that WAS my answer to the actual point. I don't see the reason why BW could not allow someone to DISAGREE with that. It was just a line of dialogue, literally. I really can't understand why so many people are unwilling to accept the fact that BW just went with the "safe route" to avoid being branded as "anti-gay" just because they put a dialogue line that allowed the player to be so. 

 

Intolerance of homosexuality already exists in some fantasy worlds so your fix is wrong. The fact that you're fighting to change one of the very few worlds that openly accepts homosexuality... Embarassing, man.

 

I am not fighting to "change" anything. As said, I am just baffled by how blind (or delusional) people are when they don't want to see (or admit) that BW is clearly doing this in order to be "progressive" for the sake of it. Which is cool, mind you - but I believe they forced A LOT of things way too much in this game, and it's backfiring.

 

Ugh.  I wake up and check the BSN to see another thread about how 'manly and gross' Cassandra is and then come in here to see pages of 'OH NOES! TEH AGENDA!!!!" posts. 

 

I think I need to take a day off from BSN.

 

Catch y'all on the flip.  I just can't with this place this weekend. 

 

Ok, see ya. Thanks for your contribution.

[Sigma Tauri]

 

I am just baffled by how blind (or delusional) people are when they don't want to see (or admit) 

 

And there goes your audience...

[Primula Nightfall]

Because history.

 

 

Fair enough. Still, this implies that every "anti-gay" individual is necessarily a fervent believer. I don't think this is true.

 

And there goes your audience...

 

Have anything to contribute to the discussion? Cause people here are constantly branding other of being "blind", so I don't see what's so shocking with me saying that as well.

[Nathair Nimheil]

I really can't understand why so many people are unwilling to accept the fact that BW just went with the "safe route" to avoid being branded as "anti-gay" just because they put a dialogue line that allowed the player to be so.

So what's your thought here? That Bioware wanted to put the option to be homophobic into the game but decided not to for political reasons? Are you familiar with psychological projection? Do you think they also wanted to put in some racist  and sexist options too, or is only homophobia that is being neglected?
 

in order to be "progressive" for the sake of it.

Being progressive is not done for the sake of being progressive, it's done for the progress.

[mikeymoonshine]

But that WAS my answer to the actual point. I don't see the reason why BW could not allow someone to DISAGREE with that. It was just a line of dialogue, literally. I really can't understand why so many people are unwilling to accept the fact that BW just went with the "safe route" to avoid being branded as "anti-gay" just because they put a dialogue line that allowed the player to be so. 

 

They didn't put that line in because it would not make much sense for it to be there and this is all based on lore that has been established for years. I don't understand how them not allowing you to express homophobia means they are "playing it safe". You can't be anti gay, you can't be pro Tervinter at all in fact, that's just not the character bioware gave you. Your options are limited just like they are in every game, why are you singling out this one limitation? 

[Sigma Tauri]

 

Have anything to contribute to the discussion? Cause people here are constantly branding other of being "blind", so I don't see what's so shocking with me saying that as well.

 

"They're calling me names, so why can't I call people names?"
 

Nathair Nimheill provided a very good counter-argument. Human behavior is not simplistic, really. I don't need to say much. I'm just watching the show.

[Mihura]

[Nathair Nimheil]

Fair enough. Still, this implies that every "anti-gay" individual is necessarily a fervent believer.

No. It implies that every homophobe has lived their entire life in a culture profoundly shaped by a history steeped in religion.

[Nefla]

I think it's something you're not used to being included in a game or other media. There were three instances of homosexuality that I saw (arguing gay couple, Briala and Celene, and guy hitting on Cullen though there was also a lady hitting on him at the same time) three is not a huge number, especially when you have around 30-50 random NPCs hanging around.

[Primula Nightfall]

So what's your thought here? That Bioware wanted to put the option to be homophobic into the game but decided not to for political reasons? Are you familiar with psychological projection? Do you think they also wanted to put in some racist  and sexist options too, or is only homophobia that is being neglected?
 

Being progressive is not done for the sake of being progressive, it's done for the progress.

 

I thought "my thought" was clear. It's not a matter of what "BioWare wanted", it's a matter of what "BioWare did". I don't personally know the developers so I have no idea what's their position on all this - but if they ended up this way, it's only logical to assume that this is what they WANTED to do (since it's what happened in the end). Racism is present in the game, tho.

 

They didn't put that line in because it would not make sense for it to be there and this is all based on lore that has been established for years. 

 

This is precisely my point. And the lore has been established this way because they wanted to. Considering how delicate this matter is, lately, I find their choice hardly random. That's all.

[mikeymoonshine]

Can I just say i don't actually care if a game gives a player the option to be a homophobe, that wouldn't really bother me I just don't think the fact that a game doesn't allow that means it's promoting an agenda. 

[Primula Nightfall]

 

"They're calling me names, so why can't I call people names?"
 

Nathair Nimheill provided a very good counter-argument. Human behavior is not simplistic, really. I don't need to say much. I'm just watching the show.

 

The issue is that the moment someone starts trying to see the point from the "less popular perspective" is suddenly being bashed, branded, and condemned. Hardly anyone tries to accept that people might have different opinions.

 

I tend to pass as "sexist and anti-gay" while I really am not, because all my arguments are read and interpreted starting from the prejudice that "anyone who bashes at being completely pro-gay is necessarily completely anti-gay". 

That's not how it works.

 

My point is that, in this game things were forced WAY TOO MUCH, and this is causing a backfire from the straight male community. I don't understand how this sounds strange - it's just a natural reaction. I understand that females and homosexuals had it rough for YEARS, and I am sincerely happy things are changing, believe it or not.

 

But going overboard is not cool. We don't want to just "tip the balance" in the opposite direction. We need to actually "reach the balance and maintain it". Suddely deciding to go "against" straight males "because revenge is sweet" is not going to turn out fine, in the end.

[l7986]

Like how awesome Morrigain is.
 

Morrigan is awesome.

[Nathair Nimheil]

The issue is that the moment someone starts trying to see the point from the "less popular perspective" is suddenly being bashed, branded, and condemned. Hardly anyone tries to accept that people might have different opinions.

You seem to be labouring under the misapprehension that any "perspective" or opinion on a subject is equally valid, equally right. That's not the case. While it is true that there are generally at least two sides to every question it's often the case that one of them is just wrong. So when you find yourself being "bashed, branded and condemned" for promoting the "less popular perspective" maybe you should consider that it might be less popular because it's wrong, like homophobia.

 

Suddely deciding to go "against" straight males "because revenge is sweet" is not going to turn out fine, in the end.

Now that is ridiculous.

[Sir DeLoria]

No. It implies that every homophobe has lived their entire life in a culture profoundly shaped by a history steeped in religion.

The Stalin era Soviet Union, Mao era Communist China and N*zi Germany were all anti-religious and staunchly homophobic.

North Korea still is today.

[Nefla]

 

 

 

The issue is that the moment someone starts trying to see the point from the "less popular perspective" is suddenly being bashed, branded, and condemned. Hardly anyone tries to accept that people might have different opinions.

 

I tend to pass as "sexist and anti-gay" while I really am not, because all my arguments are read and interpreted starting from the prejudice that "anyone who bashes at being completely pro-gay is necessarily completely anti-gay". 

That's not how it works.

 

My point is that, in this game things were forced WAY TOO MUCH, and this is causing a backfire from the straight male community. I don't understand how this sounds strange - it's just a natural reaction. I understand that females and homosexuals had it rough for YEARS, and I am sincerely happy things are changing, believe it or not.

 

But going overboard is not cool. We don't want to just "tip the balance" in the opposite direction. We need to actually "reach the balance and maintain it". Suddely deciding to go "against" straight males "because revenge is sweet" is not going to turn out fine, in the end.

 

Three instances of homosexuality at a masquerade ball is "going against straight males?" Tipping the balance? How can such a tiny number be tipping the balance? Plus every random NPC couple you see is straight (I only encountered one lesbian couple in the Hinterlands) "my husband was killed" "my wife is sick." Also why do straight men freak out about this? I'm straight (a woman) and I don't freak out when I see lesbians or gay men in the game   

[Ryzaki]

Three instances of homosexuality at a masquerade ball is "going against straight males?" Tipping the balance? How can such a tiny number be tipping the balance? Plus every random NPC couple you see is straight (I only encountered one lesbian couple in the Hinterlands) "my husband was killed" "my wife is sick." Also why do straight men freak out about this? I'm straight (a woman) and I don't freak out when I see lesbians or gay men in the game   

 

I think they'll catch it or something if they see it too much?
 

*shrugs*

[Spectre 117]

Does it really bother some of you that there are some npcs who are homosexual? I mean, in what way does that really affect you?

[Stakrin]

Why are homophobes so obsessed with getting things shoved down their throats?

It isn't homophobia. It is noticeable when a soldier talks about her first kiss and wonders "what was her name?" There wasn't really a need for any romantic thing there. Didn't add much to her character. And almost everybody is bisexual or gay (lilienna, Josephine, iron bull, sera, Dorian, celene, briala, soldier girl, ritz, I think someone from the party Cole-Spirit went to, maybe more can't remember atm)
There isn't a problem putting minorities in high positions or any of that, it can just seem weird when straight people are the minority and nobody takes notice unless it was actually part of the lore.

Don't see how that is homophobia though.

[Primula Nightfall]

You seem to be labouring under the misapprehension that any "perspective" or opinion on a subject is equally valid, equally right. That's not the case. While it is true that there are generally at least two sides to every question it's often the case that one of them is just wrong. So when you find yourself being "bashed, branded and condemned" for promoting the "less popular perspective" maybe you should consider that it might be less popular because it's wrong, like homophobia.

 

Now that is ridiculous.

 

How can you define what is "wrong"?

 

"Right" and "wrong" are just the same as "Popular" and "less popular". The popular thoughs are always going to be the right ones, cause they going to crush the less popular ones.

It's how the entire human history has unfolded, after all. Even the sexuality issues work this way. While it's clear enough where our society is heading at this current point in time, things are most likely to change yet again, down the line. "Right" and "wrong" are meaningless terms, at the end of the day.

 

Three instances of homosexuality at a masquerade ball is "going against straight males?" Tipping the balance? How can such a tiny number be tipping the balance? Plus every random NPC couple you see is straight (I only encountered one lesbian couple in the Hinterlands) "my husband was killed" "my wife is sick." Also why do straight men freak out about this? I'm straight (a woman) and I don't freak out when I see lesbians or gay men in the game   

 

Ok, mine was a general comment about the entire game, not only the Orlais part. My bad for not specifying it.

 

I think they'll catch it or something if they see it too much?
 

*shrugs*

 

Yep, this is exactly what I meant with "prejudices" against "whoever does not agree with you".

[Ynqve]

 

 

 

The issue is that the moment someone starts trying to see the point from the "less popular perspective" is suddenly being bashed, branded, and condemned. Hardly anyone tries to accept that people might have different opinions.

 

I tend to pass as "sexist and anti-gay" while I really am not, because all my arguments are read and interpreted starting from the prejudice that "anyone who bashes at being completely pro-gay is necessarily completely anti-gay". 

That's not how it works.

 

My point is that, in this game things were forced WAY TOO MUCH, and this is causing a backfire from the straight male community. I don't understand how this sounds strange - it's just a natural reaction. I understand that females and homosexuals had it rough for YEARS, and I am sincerely happy things are changing, believe it or not.

 

But going overboard is not cool. We don't want to just "tip the balance" in the opposite direction. We need to actually "reach the balance and maintain it". Suddely deciding to go "against" straight males "because revenge is sweet" is not going to turn out fine, in the end.

 

 

Dude, please don't even try to speak for the "straight male community". There are many straight men who disagree with you. See, most straight guys are so comfortable with themselves and their sexuality that they don't feel threatened by the existence of other people.