308 réponses à ce sujet

[Primula Nightfall]

Dude, please don't even try to speak for the "straight male community". There are many straight men who disagree with you. See, most straight guys are so comfortable with themselves and their sexuality that they don't feel threatened by the existence of other people. 

 

Please understand the need to generalize, when dealing with these matters. I am sure there are plenty of exceptions, but you can see how it would be impossible to list them one by one.

 

I will keep in mind that the user "Ynqve" does not agree with me, tho, don't worry.

[Nathair Nimheil]

The Stalin era Soviet Union, Mao era Communist China and N*zi Germany were all anti-religious and staunchly homophobic.

North Korea still is today.

Do you think that Stalin or Hitler taking power somehow hit the reset button and erased a couple of thousand years of profoundly religious cultural development?

 

Sorry, I don't know enough about the history of Asian homophobia to comment confidently, I was talking about Western culture. But, that being said, I was under the impression that in China homophobia pretty much directly coincides with the growing adopting of Western cultural elements.

[Spectre 117]

It isn't homophobia. It is noticeable when a soldier talks about her first kiss and wonders "what was her name?" There wasn't really a need for any romantic thing there. Didn't add much to her character. And almost everybody is bisexual or gay (lilienna, Josephine, iron bull, sera, Dorian, celene, briala, soldier girl, ritz, I think someone from the party Cole-Spirit went to, maybe more can't remember atm)
There isn't a problem putting minorities in high positions or any of that, it can just seem weird when straight people are the minority and nobody takes notice unless it was actually part of the lore.
Don't see how that is homophobia though.

Because in a fantasy world, the most unrealistic thing is that there aren't too many straight people?

Also the reason why you see homosexuals in power is because Orlais doesn't really care about sexuality. If you look at Ferelden, you'll see that most of those who run the country or are in power, are in fact straight. There isn't a shortage of straight people in Thedas.

[Nathair Nimheil]

How can you define what is "wrong"?

Morally. "Does harm to people" is a pretty easy yardstick.

"Right" and "wrong" are just the same as "Popular" and "less popular".

Wow, really? Absolutely no moral values at all? Rape, murder, slavery etc. are not wrong, merely "unpopular"?

I don't really know where to go from that. All my arguments are predicated on caring about human beings.

[WildOrchid]

Oh look, another post about heterosexual person complaining that homosexuality is "shoved down our throats".

 

 

Does it taste nice? That's how we feel with the constant heterosexuality irl and in games. 99% of media and games have straight people around and the gay people are 1 to none.

 

DA actually manages to give some diversity and you whine about that little diversity.

 

 

I swear to Zeus' sandals, we will never find peace.

[Nefla]

Ok, mine was a general comment about the entire game, not only the Orlais part. My bad for not specifying it.

How is the entire game overwhelmingly homosexual then? Because there are two gay and three bisexual party members/advisors? There are 6 straight party members/advisors. In the world at large there are dozens of straight couples and I've only found one lesbian couple. It's still overwhelmingly in favor of straight with your companions being more even. Either way, why is that bad? 

[lady8jane]

I thought "my thought" was clear. It's not a matter of what "BioWare wanted", it's a matter of what "BioWare did". I don't personally know the developers so I have no idea what's their position on all this - but if they ended up this way, it's only logical to assume that this is what they WANTED to do (since it's what happened in the end). Racism is present in the game, tho.

 

 

This is precisely my point. And the lore has been established this way because they wanted to. Considering how delicate this matter is, lately, I find their choice hardly random. That's all.

 

Of course it's not random. BioWare is an EA studio. EA has scored 100% in LGBT workplace equality for the 3rd time in a row. EA and all EA studios always were extremely outspoken regarding this matter. Heck, their COO walked with the EA team in the San Francisco Pride Parade.

 

There are people working at BioWare who believe that everyone, regardless of race, gender, or sexual orientation should be treated as equal. Then they create a fantasy world. And when you do that, you start asking "what if" questions. Stuff like:

 

What if elves were an opressed race and treated like second class citizens or even slaves?

What if the pope was a woman?

What if men and women were really equal in society?

What if homosexuality was accepted in society?

[Stakrin]

No? But I talk about the dragons too. So why can't I talk about this?

Yeah, so you see straight people and LGBT people in power, and nobody is complaining. There is no homophobia or heterophobia, which is cool.

[Spectre 117]

Please understand the need to generalize, when dealing with these matters. I am sure there are plenty of exceptions, but you can see how it would be impossible to list them one by one.
 
I will keep in mind that the user "Ynqve" does not agree with me, tho, don't worry.

I will never understand the need to generalize, because that's the reasons why these issues are born in the first place.

[Ynqve]

Please understand the need to generalize, when dealing with these matters. I am sure there are plenty of exceptions, but you can see how it would be impossible to list them one by one.

 

I will keep in mind that the user "Ynqve" does not agree with me, tho, don't worry.

 

No, there's no need to generalize. You are speaking for yourself. It's your personal opinions. No one has named you the spokesperson for straight men, no one has made a poll to find out if most straight men agree with you. You're just assuming that they do when in truth you're just making it up. I have no doubt that you'll have some who agree with you. But there are people who don't, and I think that they're more than you know. It's just that they don't feel the need to complain on places like this.

 

Maybe I'm just crazy but in the absence of statistics in the matter, I prefer to think of the majority of straight men as decent folk who doesn't feel threatened if some characters in a video game happen to be different from them. 

[Spectre 117]

No, there's no need to generalize. You are speaking for yourself. It's your personal opinions. No one has named you the spokesperson for straight men, no one has made a poll to find out if most straight men agree with you. You're just assuming that they do when in truth you're just making it up. I have no doubt that you'll have some who agree with you. But there are people who don't, and I think that they're more than you know. It's just that they don't feel the need to complain on places like this.
 
Maybe I'm just crazy but in the absence of statistics in the matter, I prefer to think of the majority of straight men as decent folk who doesn't feel threatened if some characters in a video game happen to be different from them.

I fully agree with this. I hate it when someome tries to speak for myself. I'm sorry but no, you are not speaking for the straight male gamers. You are using them as a shield to protect your opinion. But right now there are two straight men here who disagree with your opinion.

[rigron]

 

While playing this "Wicked Eyes and Wicked Hearts'' quest I realised of all four instances of NPC characters in the background having spousal issue were all homosexual men, not one instance of a heterosexual couple. The Empress had a lesbian affair with servant Elf. Cullen (a straight character as I recall) was being hit on by a gay guy.

 

I think its a good thing when Bioware include homosexuality as a normal aspect without prejudice. However there is a point where they're deliberately trying to shove it down your throats, trying to promote Homosexuality to be accepted in in modern society (as it should be), but there's no need for this agenda to be pushed in a video game.

 

Or is it in the Lore that Orlesian parties are just full of Gays. 

 

 

I talked with Iron Bull and when I picked the option of "watch with the eyes of a Ben-Hassat" (or whatever the name of the Qunari spies are) he mentioned 2 cases of heterosexual nobles:

 

_A male noble had an affair with 2 of his maids

_A female noble had an affair with one of the male servants.

 

Other than that the Orlesian Court seemed like Queer as Folk in a medieval setting.

[Primula Nightfall]

Morally. "Does harm to people" is a pretty easy yardstick.

 

 

If you mean "physical harm" yeah, it's an easy yardstick.

 

 

 

Maybe I'm just crazy but in the absence of statistics in the matter, I prefer to think of the majority of straight men as decent folk who doesn't feel threatened if some characters in a video game happen to be different from them. 

 

I don't feel threatened at all. I am just stating my opinions. But feel free to think I feel threatened.

[Ynqve]

I fully agree with this. I hate it when someome tries to speak for myself. I'm sorry but no, you are not speaking for the straight male gamers. You are using them as a shield to protect your opinion. But right now there are two straight men here who disagree with your opinion.

 

Actually, I'm a woman xD 

 

But at least I'm straight and when you think about the named LGBT characters in this thread, most of them are women. So based on Primula's logic, I should be scared of catching the gay from characters like Sera and Celene. 

[mikeymoonshine]

The Stalin era Soviet Union, Mao era Communist China and N*zi Germany were all anti-religious and staunchly homophobic.

North Korea still is today.

 
Nazi Germany was not anti religious.

 

Wow, really? Absolutely no moral values at all? Rape, murder, slavery etc. are not wrong, merely "unpopular"?
 

 

To be honest this is actually accurate, wrong does just mean unpopular. Murder for example is just a form of unlawful killing, It's wrong because if it wasn't out society would be unsafe and unable to function properly. Morality happens because it's better for us if we all work together and generally agree on what we should and shouldn't be doing. 

[Zered]

On a side note I am pretty sure Gaspard is straight.

[Stakrin]

If morality is just so society can work together what is personal moral all about? What we think is right and wrong and why we so stuff?
Legit curious now.

[Nathair Nimheil]

Other than that the Orlesian Court seemed like Queer as Folk in a medieval setting.

First, and this cannot be said too often: it is not set in medieval Europe. It is a fantasy setting superficially similar to medieval Europe.

Secondly, so? Even if every single character in that quest was fabulously, flamboyantly gay... what about it? It's one quest, a very small percentage of the game content, how is that a problem? And who is it a problem for?

[Spectre 117]

Actually, I'm a woman xD 
 
But at least I'm straight and when you think about the named LGBT characters in this thread, most of them are women. So based on Primula's logic, I should be scared of catching the gay from characters like Sera and Celene.

Ahh sorry! But the point still stands. No one needs to speak for straight people, because we can speak for ourselves. And generalizations only lead to trouble.

[Ynqve]

I don't feel threatened at all. I am just stating my opinions. But feel free to think I feel threatened.

 

The whole "but what about us straight guys, we don't like having to share our games with gays and females" shtick does come across as you feeling threatened. And yes, it's just your opinions. That was exactly my point earlier. It's your opinions, not the opinions of the "straight male community".

[Giantdeathrobot]

Wait.

 

How is THAT not a clear indication of an "agenda"? I don't even

 

Heaven forbid that a setting with magic and dragons doesn't copy-paste real-life sexual behaviors and taboos to the letter.

[Rannik]

I found the gross overrepresentation a bit ridiculous too.

 

In fact, I'd be actually worried about a massive sub-replacement fertility if that were the case IRL 

[Jeremiah12LGeek]

Sounds like a fun place!