87 réponses à ce sujet

[dataBlast]

I think many of us need to learn to let go, we're not Bioware's target audience or platform anymore. They're not interested in creating turn-based RPG's, they want to stand squarely in the action RPG (lite) genre. That's been obvious since ME2, no doubt the new Mass Effect will play exactly like Inquisition, slim on storied content, lite on RPG mechanics, but stuffed full of inconsequential fetch quest, and even more emphasis on multiplayer and micro-transactions.
 

So true. ME2 was great but it was the beginning of the end for strategic RPGs from Bioware.

[Teddie Sage]

People should never promise anything, ever.

[Greetsme]

People should never promise anything, ever.

 

I promise you I won't

[Bioware-Critic]

I think the fact is that they are not the same people that crated Origins, and they just don't have a clue how rebuild the magic of Origins.  Or they are looking at a few basic unimportant features of Origins and building on those. 

One thing is true, they couldn't have been further from the mark.

 

They are also making the same mistake that many authors make, and that is trying to be to cleaver with the story, and as a result alienating people from that story.  Keep it simple, so that people can get involved with out having to study months of dragon age lore.

Hey Greetsme, I agree with you there but not to 100%.

 

I think Bioware simply did not have enough time to do everything properly - which makes me furious indeed - because it is their responsibility to plan accordingly!

 

I believe that their publishers from EA telling them to implement and compromise a whole lot of things - which is regarding all that money they lend them all to understandable. But I don't think EA understands by any means how to do that correctly. These business people - they don't have a clue what they are doing. All they are doing is f*ucking things up. And it shows! But in the end I would have to point my finger at Bioware - Yes Bioware! They agreed to a lot of suggestions from EA and in the end they did not have enough time do finish most of them properly - because they did not plan accordingly. The lack of proper polish and decent follow through in many story arcs and many systems in Inquisition is sadly all to apparent to me. And since they now have a s*hitload of bugs to fix, most of it will stay. They even cut a whole lot of things out. Things we saw in the panels before release that did not make it in the final product. Like for example with the keeps. They should have been war efforts which can be upgraded in three different ways: Military, intelligence / information gathering or diplomacy / commerce.

 

(I play on console - WE DON'T GET ANY MODS !!! - We are loyal fans and also pay for every copy but we will be left standing in the rain!)

[KennethAFTopp]

a few years back they were looking at the wrong games to serve as inspiration for their games:

 

Oh look Uncharted did that great let's try that in Mass Effect 3.

Instead of thinking about their games, they considered other games, which is ok to do to some point, but in the end it hampered the quality of the RPG part in their games.

[saladinbob]

They should also make a point to play the Awakening expansion because most of the concepts in Inquisition where born in Awakening and have simply been taken to the next level (a run down keep as your base that you upgrade over time, new weapons and armour for your soldiers, etc.). To be honest I find Inquisition's companions bland by comparison with Origin's cast; O.K., trade Bull for Sten who had all the personality of a plank of wood but for the rest of Inquisition's companions I range from apathetic to distinctly dislike and as a result, not a single romance option is worth romancing.

 

Whilst Origins wasn't a perfect game, had Bioware gone back to that forumulae with this engine they would have produced the best RPG of all time. Inquisition may not be a bad game but it is a missed opportunity.

[MacroN0va]

The Arkham games are a great example of how you can innovate and progress your gameplay without completely ruining everything people love about the previous installment.

[Kel Eligor]

 

I just got done replaying Dragon Age Origins. I was hoping that in the week it took me to finish the game, Bioware would have released a patch or something to remedy some of the problems.. Sadly, this was not the case. I STRONGLY feel that the BioWare staff needs to all go back and play through the entire game again. I really think by doing this they will finally have that epiphany and be all, "Ohhhhh, right... That's why all the PC gamers are pissed at us. Got some fixing to do."

 

While replaying and enjoying that GREAT game I set myself up for more mental failure as I just came across more stuff that I LOVED about the first game so dearly, and was stripped away from me in Inquisition. 

 

For Instance: 

• The Arcane Warrior was awesome! It came as such an awesome twist midway through the game, and really had some neat features to accompany it.
• I loved the little "Finishing/Kill Moves" that were sometimes performed after dispatching a foe. Something about watching my character jumping on a dragon to go for the kill, or piggy back riding an ogre to finish them off really added to the whole expierence...
• I've said it once, and I'll say it again... QUICK SWAP WEAPONS!
• I feel a much stronger connection to the characters in Origins than in Inquisition.. I really enjoyed having the camp fire to sit around and shoot the **** with my peoples at.. I know that you can technically do that in Inquisition, but something about the camp fire scene just feels right!
• I missed my dog... 

 

The Arcane Warrior was awesome, I think no one is trying to contest that. The Knight Enchanter comes as a mechanically similar class that puts more emphasis on casting spells and barrier upkeep instead of destroying class-specific limitations. On both accounts, they are a wonky mess of balance. 

 

The finishing moves, while adding flavour to some fights also locked in characters in animations, which made it impossible for them to participate to the fight for a few (sometimes vital) seconds. On higher difficulties this could make the difference between victory and a party wipe. This is entirely subjective, but I gather some people got tired of seeing them after a few hours into the game. Meanwhile, there is an "always finisher" mod on the Nexus so obviously the opinion here is very polarized.

 

No comment there. I agree.  

 

Highly subjective. I personally preferred the companions of Dragon Age 2 and my connection to them, and those in Inquisition compared to Origins. I thought the camp was the most unimagined player hub of any Bioware game. 

 

Mabaris are cool. I for one would love to train one of Lelianna's crows as an attack-pet. 

 

More to the point - the things you've named are based in opinion and have little bearing on the actual mechanics or polish of the game. Obviously all opinions are subjective, but they shouldn't be used as a measure of a game's worth. I find that a lot of people idolize Origins to an absurd degree. Where people saw story-telling genius, I saw general fantasy tropes. Where people saw engaging RPG mechanics, I saw laughably bad gameplay and boring combat. Where people thought the art was interesting, I thought it was bland. At best, in my mind, Origins was an average game that introduced a new fantasy universe. DA2 and DA:I are the games that made me a fan of the series. 

[N7 Spectre525]

Quick swap weapons has to happen in Inquisition.

Fade tear, I have a Rage demon and a Desire demon, well that's just great not being even able to switch to a more appropriate Staff weapon.

Similar deal for rogues. Should be able to switch from bows to daggers as needed.

I'll never forget trying to close a rift as a fire mage and then a Rage demon appears to wipe my ass out because I couldn't switch to my ice staff...such utter bS.

[MassFrank]

Did the same thing as the OP, went back to Origins while waiting for a patch. 

 

I have heard and read a few times how people who really like DAI (and even DA2) actually had no great love for DAO. 

As someone who really is enjoying DAO again, I realize each successive DA is built by, and designed for people who really didn't care for DAO, 

 

I am guessing their goal is always broadened appeal. Less tactics, more action, open world, shinier graphics and multiplayer (with real-money transactions).

 

Little surprised there isn't something like a Madden tie-in armor. 

[Maboroshi]

Did the same thing as the OP, went back to Origins while waiting for a patch. 

 

I have heard and read a few times how people who really like DAI (and even DA2) actually had no great love for DAO. 

As someone who really is enjoying DAO again, I realize each successive DA is built by, and designed for people who really didn't care for DAO, 

 

I am guessing their goal is always broadened appeal. Less tactics, more action, open world, shinier graphics and multiplayer (with real-money transactions).

 

Little surprised there isn't something like a Madden tie-in armor. 

 

Knowing the nature of the beast I wouldn't rule that out just yet......

[Darkly Tranquil]

Did the same thing as the OP, went back to Origins while waiting for a patch. 
 
I have heard and read a few times how people who really like DAI (and even DA2) actually had no great love for DAO. 
As someone who really is enjoying DAO again, I realize each successive DA is built by, and designed for people who really didn't care for DAO, 
 
I am guessing their goal is always broadened appeal. Less tactics, more action, open world, shinier graphics and multiplayer (with real-money transactions).
 
Little surprised there isn't something like a Madden tie-in armor.

Too true. There seems to be little regard for traditional CRPG fans these days. Perhaps we are too niche an audience for AAA developers to care about? I guess the Call of Duty crowd is where the money is. If you are a CRPG fan these days, the indies are where you will get your fix from; The Banner Saga, Divinity: Original Sin, and (soon) Pillars of Eternity show that old school CRPGs still have an audience, but apparently not one AAA studios want.

[Jackal19851111]

Reminds me of Firaxis' Xcom team, the project lead made them all play the original Xcom for ages, to get the feel of the game, and know what they have to bring into the modern era. It's a good practice I found, considering Xcom reboot repopularised the turn based strategy genre.

[Bioware-Critic]

At this point, I think the only possible redemption for the DA franchise is to get Brent Knowles back and fully commit to a tactical RPG and a reboot of the series. Yeah, won't be happening under EA. But DA:O, BG2 and NWN were all great games. Inquisition doesn't even know what genre it is.

 

Brent Knowles is a writer, programmer, and game designer. He worked at the role-playing game studio BioWare (Baldur's Gate 2, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire, Dragon Age) for ten years, during most of which he was a Lead Designer/Creative Director.

As a designer, he feels that party control and tactical combats should be huge factors in a role playing game. Dragon Age II's departure from that made him realize that he would not be satisfied with what it would be.

 

@1varangian 

YOU ARE A GOD !

 

 

 

 

[Bioware-Critic]

DAO was a PC game.  DA:I is a console game made available for the PC.   Big difference.

 

Yes you are right. But that is not the whole point ...

 

I play on console most of the time. And I tell you: I hate how oversimplyfied Inquisition is and most of all the controls and the f*ucking camera!

But it has nothing to do with consoles! I know, ALL PC GAMERS SAY THIS, but it's bullshit! They did not make this for stupid console players - because console players are just as intelligent and demanding as PC gamers - I tell you! They made this game for NON-RPG-GAMERS!

That is why they dumbed it down so f*ucking hard!

[Spaceballs604]

They'd replay DAO but the boredom of slogging though that trash mob infested mess is more than they can handle. DAO remains a great story and characters glued to a really poor game that has somehow morphed into the gold standard for gameplay.

 

the problems with DAI aren't about how far they moved away from DAO but how close they walked to Skyrim. The game lost narrative focus in favor of a lot of weeds, rocks and "exploration". Better to have left well enough alone and let Bioware focus on their stories and let TES focus on their grinding.

 

I completely disagree that DAO was filled with mass mobs. It is actually Inquisition that has that problem. Origins had a set amount of enemies, and that was that. When you finished playing through an area, that area was relatively done. Inquisition is what feels like a grind to me, with mobs literally appearing out of nowhere in front of me, and their bodies some how disappearing after.

[Spaceballs604]

Yes you are right. But that is not the whole point ...

 

I play on console most of the time. And I tell you: I hate how oversimplyfied Inquisition is and most of all the controls and the f*ucking camera!

But it has nothing to do with consoles! I know, ALL PC GAMERS SAY THIS, but it's bullshit! They did not make this for stupid console players - because console players are just as intelligent and demanding as PC gamers - I tell you! They made this game for NON-RPG-GAMERS!

That is why they dumbed it down so f*ucking hard!

Yeah, I can agree with your comment. Although my lack of left thumb disability prevents me from really getting into consoles myself, I do remeber my early years and how many nights I spent playing the Dragon Warrior games. you are very right, console gamers can be just as demanding, and they DID really go for an attempt at appealing to hack and slash type gamers that can't handle a true RPG.. 

[Spaceballs604]

The Arcane Warrior was awesome, I think no one is trying to contest that. The Knight Enchanter comes as a mechanically similar class that puts more emphasis on casting spells and barrier upkeep instead of destroying class-specific limitations. On both accounts, they are a wonky mess of balance. 

 

The finishing moves, while adding flavour to some fights also locked in characters in animations, which made it impossible for them to participate to the fight for a few (sometimes vital) seconds. On higher difficulties this could make the difference between victory and a party wipe. This is entirely subjective, but I gather some people got tired of seeing them after a few hours into the game. Meanwhile, there is an "always finisher" mod on the Nexus so obviously the opinion here is very polarized.

 

No comment there. I agree.  

 

Highly subjective. I personally preferred the companions of Dragon Age 2 and my connection to them, and those in Inquisition compared to Origins. I thought the camp was the most unimagined player hub of any Bioware game. 

 

Mabaris are cool. I for one would love to train one of Lelianna's crows as an attack-pet. 

 

More to the point - the things you've named are based in opinion and have little bearing on the actual mechanics or polish of the game. Obviously all opinions are subjective, but they shouldn't be used as a measure of a game's worth. I find that a lot of people idolize Origins to an absurd degree. Where people saw story-telling genius, I saw general fantasy tropes. Where people saw engaging RPG mechanics, I saw laughably bad gameplay and boring combat. Where people thought the art was interesting, I thought it was bland. At best, in my mind, Origins was an average game that introduced a new fantasy universe. DA2 and DA:I are the games that made me a fan of the series. 

 The games being highly subjective is exactly my point, and although there are MANY MANY people on these forums that won't hesitate to say Origins was simply a better game, what they enjoyed about it over Inquisition is probably completely different than what I really enjoyed. This is why Bioware needs to go back and re-examine Origins. Because although opinions vary, the consensus right now by the gamers is that Origins was a rocket scientist and Inquistion is its moron half-brother that can't get a job... Don't believe me, check out Metacritics user review score... Just sad sad sad.

[10K]

Yes you are right. But that is not the whole point ...
 
I play on console most of the time. And I tell you: I hate how oversimplyfied Inquisition is and most of all the controls and the f*ucking camera!
But it has nothing to do with consoles! I know, ALL PC GAMERS SAY THIS, but it's bullshit! They did not make this for stupid console players - because console players are just as intelligent and demanding as PC gamers - I tell you! They made this game for NON-RPG-GAMERS!

That is why they dumbed it down so f*ucking hard!

Finally someone who speaks sense. I play on both PC and console to see the differences myself, and I think It's so funny how people are so quick to blame consoles. It seems always the console fault for everything. Why not we put the blame on the devs, you know the people who had say in what to incorporate within the game.

[Maboroshi]

@1varangian

YOU ARE A GOD !

 

 

 

 

Mr. Knowles must be sad, even if just a little, to see the legacy of his labor of love go down the probervial toilet with this new game. I guess one can only dream of what an amazing game could have been created had Mr. Knowles stayed and his creative vision allowed to drive the whole processes. Without EA breathing down their collective neck, with him at the helm along with Bioware's superb team of writers they could have worked wonders. How do I know? the naysayers will say, because we saw it once. In 2009. Before EA consumed their soul. The proof was/is Dragon Age Origins.

[saladinbob]

I think the biggest mistake for the Franchise was the changing of protagonist. That's arguably Mass Effect's strength, the same protagonist in each story. DA2 should never have been Hawke, it should have been the continuation of the HoF's story, even if that was the much more personal story they wanted to tell with the Champion. Mass Effect has built its audience over time because its audience has become emotionally invested in Shepard, each game being akin to books in a series. You stick with it because you have that connection to the main character. Dragon Age is now on its third lead so that emotional investment isn't there. If it was, the flaws would be easier to forgive because your primary reason for buying the game is to see what comes next in the story.

 

I think Bioware need to sit down after this game and have a long, hard look at where the Dragon Age franchise is going and work out what story it is they actually want to tell because as it stands, the franchise is very muddled with seemingly no one at the rudder. As a result, its just aimlessly sailing around in circles right now with the writers having no idea what course they should be taking.

[Bioware-Critic]

 The games being highly subjective is exactly my point, and although there are MANY MANY people on these forums that won't hesitate to say Origins was simply a better game, what they enjoyed about it over Inquisition is probably completely different than what I really enjoyed. This is why Bioware needs to go back and re-examine Origins. Because although opinions vary, the consensus right now by the gamers is that Origins was a rocket scientist and Inquistion is its moron half-brother that can't get a job... Don't believe me, check out Metacritics user review score... Just sad sad sad.

F*uck - I do agree on that one!

 

The first thing I did after being so fed up with Inquisition that I interrupted my playthrough - I believe my playtime was round about 20 hours or something like that - I created a metacritic account for the first time in my life and kicked Bioware in the balls - HARD!

I am not proud of it - But I will not delete these reviews !

Thats even where I got my forum name from ...

If your interested take a look: http://www.metacriti.../Bioware-Critic

For PS4 and PC just click expand. But to read my PS3 review you will have to open the PS3 game site, because my account page does not display it correctly.

[Doroki]

Did the same thing as the OP, went back to Origins while waiting for a patch. 

 

I have heard and read a few times how people who really like DAI (and even DA2) actually had no great love for DAO. 

As someone who really is enjoying DAO again, I realize each successive DA is built by, and designed for people who really didn't care for DAO, 

 

I am guessing their goal is always broadened appeal. Less tactics, more action, open world, shinier graphics and multiplayer (with real-money transactions).

 

Little surprised there isn't something like a Madden tie-in armor. 

I agree with you. I couldn't bring myself to complete origin when it came out.I just beat it recently to play inquisition. The game was painfully slow for me.The only thing that kept me going was its characters . There are a lot of people who didn't grow up playing old-school rpg games like baldur's gate or dungeon siege. The genre is not mainstream anymore like it was in 2000s. 

[saladinbob]

I agree with you. I couldn't bring myself to complete origin when it came out.I just beat it recently to play inquisition. The game was painfully slow for me.The only thing that kept me going was its characters . There are a lot of people who didn't grow up playing old-school rpg games like baldur's gate or dungeon siege. The genre is not mainstream anymore like it was in 2000s. 

 

You misunderstand. The reason the OP wants the devs to re-play Origins isn't because it was a superior story, or had superior characters, it's because when it comes to the PC and M+KB controls, it had a superior control system. There's three big problems with Inquisition (beyond the crashes and bugs that all modern games suffer from):

 

1. No auto-attack leading to inaccurate combat.

2. A Tactics cam that requires you to drive the pointer to where you want to go but is blocked by scenery and doesn't pan out enough.

3. A tactics screen that doesn't provide you with tactics but rather a list of priorities. 

 

All of these Origins did very well (along with inventory management) but seem to have been put in to Inquisition grudgingly, for marketing purposes only so they could say they where in in an attempt to attract fans of Origins who didn't like DA2. But since they are in they should be implemented correctly. You don't need a tac-cam to move one of your four characters to a different point, that's easily achieved with manual control. But if you're going to put a tac-cam in then it makes no sense to allow you to pause, carefully position your characters, only to exit the state and watch them run straight in to melee range again.

 

It's not a question of whether Origins is or isn't a better game, that's down to personal taste, it's a question of the fact that they restored certain systems that where in Origins but didn't bother to implement them to the same standard and this I believe is the point of the OP's post.

[kopez]

I need to put my feedback about this game, I'm very disappointed. I haven't play more than about 15 hours on pc and I can't do it anymore.

 

To start with, what is with the combat, this is not Dragon age combat, no tactics to speak of and no auto-attack and auto-approach that should be in the game(it is good to see that is is slower than DA2 and faster than DA:O). I'm pretty sure some people like the combat that is in this game, but BioWare should have made both options available. For people who like click fest and other who like tactical approach and dislike pressing or holding button all the time. That would make everyone happy console and pc players alike. I mean auto-attack is already in the game not controlled party members are using it.

 

Tactical camera and pc controls are broken as was stated many times by others. If BioWare wanted to make game more casual that wasn't needed, they did it already in DA:O and DA2. That what casual difficulty is for, no? It should be Casual and normal, no need for tactical camera just a few potions and hard and nightmare where tactical camera and advanced tactics are not just useful but needed. Everybody wins again.

 

Respawning enemies does not belong in single player story driven RPG, plus the world is to big for this to be necessary anyway.

 

Next thing looting. Submarining is not good, it did not work in Witcher 2 and it doesn't work here, it is worse than holding Tab button all the time, it was just made for making the game longer and more frustrating. I like Mass Effect 1 looting where items just appeared in your inventory (it was strange but it was better than walking to every corpse and wasting time). When you kill all enemies in area, there would be a sign or something that says you cleared the area and then you order your companions to loot everything in the area 2 seconds later they come back with loot and you take everything you want if your inventory is full you go back empty your inventory and do that again (even crafting components). If there is no rouge in your party who can lockpick chests one of your companion should say "Well there are few chests we can't open them and we don't want to force open them for the fear of breaking the stuff inside.". And yes that would mean no respawning enemies.

 

Why no attributes? You had auto level up in DA:O and DA2 for all the people who don't want to spend them manually.

 

Tallis had throwing daggers in DA2. Why not put throwing weapons in game for rouge? And something like fist weapons for warrior?

 

What is with you doing all the fetch quests? Aren't you Grand Inquisitor it is like being a king you decide who lives or dies and have more pressing matters to do, did Loghain had to do some fetch quests for farmers to gain more power? That is just stupid, it is like you made a big world and you called your friends who are working on SW:TOR and said to them we made a big world can you make us about 500 quests we need to fill up that empty space with something. I get that at start, when you are nobody, but seriously after Skyhold? Why not send some of your 1000 solders that are in Skyhold doing nothing or other party members that you are not using now, you can't be bothered with some peasants while the end of the world is at stake. Plus Skyhold should have dragon and some baby dragons in it, that is why it is abandoned.

 

More subjective matter. I do not understand why so many companions, that was the same in DA:O I mean you have 6 killers, she golem, wardog and a healer(Wynne is not a killer   ) in DA:O, I like how they were used in the battle for Denerim but why not in the battle for Redcliffe (they could save the village and you go storm the castle at the same time) or why only 3 of them will go with you in Deep roads in search for Branka instead of all 9, you could make an annulment of Deep roads with all those killers. Instead they are just doing nothing in camp (i get it you and 3 party members that how the game works, but others could be doing something). Just like they are doing nothing in DA:I. In DA2 I understand Anders have clinic, Fenris was decorating walls with wine, Aveline was a guard captain..., they do something when they are not with you. You could put in 3 or 4 companions and their personality could change depending on you being more sarcastic, aggressive or diplomatic plus they could have more to say when you are talking with someone. I ended up using only the same 3 companions all the time anyway.

 

All in all. I am disappointed they didn't come up with anything new except maybe war room, plot is TES:Oblivion witch is not really a bad thing but still, looting is Witcher 2, combat tries to be Kingdoms of Amalur, and quests are 80% taken from every MMORPG ever, also SW:TOR has better moments with fetch quests (Empire: go get me communicators so I will put explosive in them and then plant them back on dead bodies of rebels so when they use them it is gonna explode in their face, or you can go light side and do that with grenades so that civilians won't get hurt only rebel solders) and the same respawning enemies over and over again. It doesn't work, sorry.

 

Truth to be told DA:O is actually making fun out of DA:I. Ask quartermaster in Ostagar ("You want me to find you that elf girl?" "No, you have better thing to do than fetching things for me." )

 

This was supposed to be the last game I play for quite a while and after 15 hours it is. BioWare (and EA) your fans and players have brains they are using them too, show some respect. I don't know if this game is a result of laziness, incompetence or trying to appease everyone (you can't appease everyone your games show that), trying to make game longer, make more profits or whatever. 

 

You made very good lore and established very good fantasy world. This game is beautiful, but very little taught and new ideas were put in it.

 

I hope some of ideas I mentioned will get to next game.