115 réponses à ce sujet

[EVILFLUFFMONSTER]

Can I interject with saying I like the broken loot system? I like RNG. I havent been blessed with anything decent either.

My issue is, I got a bunch of psn points as a gift, I have plenty spare, but when I go to the DAMP store intending to spend a little you get so little its simply not worth buying. You get what, 8 large chests for spending £15.99?( Roughly) On easy mode I am getting large chests nearly every other match. Even if each run took 20 mins, which it doesnt, that Money would buy 5 and a bit hours of playtime, less if you speedrun or play higher than easy. Its simply not worth it.

If it was £1 to £1.50 for a large chest you would have me regularly buying chests every time I have the money spare, at 2.50 a chest for minimum transaction I never will. Just my personal opinion, perhaps people out there are happy to pay that much, and im just a cheapskate. I just think its worth investigating the relation between cheap packs and more frequent purchases, there has to be a point where its more economically viable. There is a reason why there are so many "pound stores" in britain, we will buy anything for a pound, its a magic number.

[crusader_bin]

I agree, it is perfectly reasonable to not want trash after spending many hours on the game EACH DAY.

In Mass Effect it was easy to drop something good basically each day, even if it was a lvl upgrade.

We have a grind, without the feel of constant gain at all. In fact, it is possible to gain absolutely nothing through many days.

That system is not very good when it comes to fun. And it's a game, it's supposed to be fun.

 

And it doesn't have to be THE best item, but there should be whole TIER of very good items. 

For example Diablo III and legendaries. Not all may be usefull to YOU, but all are worth something.

 

Besides, most thing you get are crafting materials. But there are so little things to craft. Why we can't unlock recepies via challanges or - maybe - after dropping 1 000 000 white ferelden swords, unlock the damn recepies for that

 

Don't bash people for stating their opinions, that is just silly. It's not like EA will throw any cash into multiplayer improvement anyway.

[Lenseflare]

I have to chime inn that the loot system was much much better in ME3 MP.

 

At this rate, its more like 1 good item out of 20..or 30 large boxes. The rest is breakdown components.

 

At least in mass effect you had sort of a progression system, and didn't end up with 15 "Barbarian's Mauls", that serves no purpose.

[PvtNiss]

They should allow you to craft unique weapons with an insane amount of tier 1/2 components and just 2-3 of any tier 3 component. This would sort of let you change one tier 3 item into another as you need an unique drop for crafting mats still.

It wouldn't even matter so much, if some items weren't so godlike and insanely powerful. One single unique can change up your whole game completely overhauling your playstyle and sometimes more than double your damage. A bow that triples your basic attack damage at close range with +40% attack or a dagger that gives you a 10% on hit to proc over 2000% weapon damage on an enemy, or a 2hander with nearly 50 strength and an obscenely large proc and other bonuses. You go from struggling in Routine to demolishing and carrying teams in Threatening at a lower level. My promoted lowbie reaver is 1 shotting with an AoE basic spammable skill until zone 4/5 leaving all my other chars in the dust by a long shot thanks to a unique greatsword and can facetank any boss and win in seconds. My assassin that i've poured hours upon hours into still has a 20 and a 15 white dagger set with garbage bonuses.

[crusader_bin]

Blizzard devs said something about RNG on Diablo panels on Blizzcon:

 

RNG is just a tool, not a reason in itself. Than it just stops getting fun.

 

Similiar thing about - what was it? iTunes? Or similiar service... Where truly random music player was TOO random, so it allowed playing, say, two same songs at a time or a short interval. So in order to make it feel more random, they made it less random, etc.

 

Just two cases out of my head.

 

Besides, in RPG games, working towards something is the key. Constant progression. Slowly gaining that 1/10 000 "X" thing for that "Y uber powerfull weapon" is better than just having 0.001% chance to roll it anytime you play.

 

MassEffect only F- up by giving pointless XP cards. Wasn't perfect, but bearable.

 

This loot system can drop uber items way too fast or never. Not nice at all. And you can't craft actual items or upgrade existing ones with resources. Potential wasted. Still I like to play, but dissapointment from chests I open is huge.

[Shinnyshin]

I have to chime inn that the loot system was much much better in ME3 MP.

 

At this rate, its more like 1 good item out of 20..or 30 large boxes. The rest is breakdown components.

 

At least in mass effect you had sort of a progression system, and didn't end up with 15 "Barbarian's Mauls", that serves no purpose.

 

Look, I liked ME3 too...but a lot of people here are blatantly misremembering that progression system.  What people here're describing with regular upgrades, that was the case with mid-game ME3.  Not end-game.  The best weapons in that game were overwhelmingly Ultrarares and it took an average of 1500ish hours of pure RNG grind for anyone to max out their Ultrarares.  I played continuously and often got a new upgrade every two weeks or so while the chests were stuffed full of useless junk.  That guy claiming he wants at least one top-tier item at this point?  Yeah, he wouldn't have it in ME3 either--not for about another 6 months at a minimum.  At its very best, the ME3 system could try to be as bad as this one and the ME3 boards have always been full of people claiming the end-game progression system is the worst they've ever seen.

 

ME3 was a great game but it had a ridiculously terrible end-game progression that thusfar seems far, far, far worse than this (which I'll readily concede could use improvement).  Nostalgiaing up that game in an idealized haze doesn't help us here at all.

[TheThirdRace]

Look, I liked ME3 too...but a lot of people here are blatantly misremembering that progression system.  What people here're describing with regular upgrades, that was the case with mid-game ME3.  Not end-game.  The best weapons in that game were overwhelmingly Ultrarares and it took an average of 1500ish hours of pure RNG grind for anyone to max out their Ultrarares.  I played continuously and often got a new upgrade every two weeks or so while the chests were stuffed full of useless junk.  That guy claiming he wants at least one top-tier item at this point?  Yeah, he wouldn't have it in ME3 either--not for about another 6 months at a minimum.  At its very best, the ME3 system could try to be as bad as this one and the ME3 boards have always been full of people claiming the end-game progression system is the worst they've ever seen.
 
ME3 was a great game but it had a ridiculously terrible end-game progression that thusfar seems far, far, far worse than this (which I'll readily concede could use improvement).  Nostalgiaing up that game in an idealized haze doesn't help us here at all.

You're the one with misremembering. It took me about 400 hours to max my manifest, about he same time most of my friend did and we didn't have Platinum back then. With Platinum, it would have easily taken 100 hours less. I have barely over 1000 hours and I've held over a year a high rank in Challenge points so your 1500 hours estimate is way out of proportion for about anyone. Unless you played 4000 games on Bronze, at that point I'd conclude you didn't find the difficulty option because staying voluntarily in Bronze would be retarded...

ME3 had its flaws, but there was always progression with equipment (you never got worst from getting an upgrade). It was relatively fast at the beginning, got relatively ok for mid-game then went slow for end-game. You had to know how to game the store though, those trying to get all rare guns before maxing the commons and uncommons were out of luck for a lack of saying "dumb". In any case, the game was so much fun and diversified I never felt like "grinding" to achieve my goals.

[Shinnyshin]

You're the one with misremembering. It took me about 400 hours to max my manifest, about he same time most of my friend did and we didn't have Platinum back then. With Platinum, it would have easily taken 100 hours less. I have barely over 1000 hours and I've held over a year a high rank in Challenge points so your 1500 hours estimate is way out...

1500 estimate was from my own profile (350 hours iirc and well less than a quarter of the way there) and my two primary playing partners'. Seeing as I'm primarily a gold/plat player who was in the top 100 for leaderboards for quite some time...

One of my friends didn't even have a PPR 1 at 250 hours and was well on track for 1500 hours or higher. Our other friend was about 200 hours 'for shipping out and was the lucker dog on track for closer to 1k hours.

My general point is that people here are comparing the DAI grind for top tier weapons--not 20+ whites with which you can easily clear perilous but rather 20+ uniques--to the Me3 end game grind...and saying this has worse of a RNG wall. Which just...isn't necessarily true. Saying ME3's end game UR progression was smooth and not frustrating is just...not true at all.

[crusader_bin]

Look, I liked ME3 too...but a lot of people here are blatantly misremembering that progression system.  What people here're describing with regular upgrades, that was the case with mid-game ME3.  Not end-game.  The best weapons in that game were overwhelmingly Ultrarares and it took an average of 1500ish hours of pure RNG grind for anyone to max out their Ultrarares.  I played continuously and often got a new upgrade every two weeks or so while the chests were stuffed full of useless junk.  That guy claiming he wants at least one top-tier item at this point?  Yeah, he wouldn't have it in ME3 either--not for about another 6 months at a minimum.  At its very best, the ME3 system could try to be as bad as this one and the ME3 boards have always been full of people claiming the end-game progression system is the worst they've ever seen.

 

ME3 was a great game but it had a ridiculously terrible end-game progression that thusfar seems far, far, far worse than this (which I'll readily concede could use improvement).  Nostalgiaing up that game in an idealized haze doesn't help us here at all.

I have to agree with TheThirRace, I maxed all my items, including N7 ones.

I've gotten all classes and few N7 items during first week. I work, didn't have time to play 24/7 (but I did when I COULD )

[Stinja]

I maxed my manifest in 8-900 hours, and it took a while before i jumped to gold, as my early unlocks were terrible (plus being a noob),  so 1500 hours is an exaggeration, or a lot of bronze.

In that i also had an 11 million dry patch, and a few others around 7-8 mil.

 

So far DAMP seems far more generous:  i haven't played all that much, but got 2 unique daggers (and i don't really like the Assassin, RNG you tease), and a nice level 22 blue 2Hander.

 

While the "totally random", isn't perfect, it's generally doling out decent treats if you buy enough chests.

Given people have put in less than 400 hours so far, and have gotten some top end stuff, i can't see DAMP broadly being worse, except for a few (un)lucky individuals.

 

The main problem is ME3MP gradually unlocked good stuff no matter what: i used a Black Widow for a while, and i don't like sniping, but it was a great weapon, and far more damaging than anything else i had at the time;  while DAMP can see you getting stuff for kits you haven't unlocked yet, and is item DPS is so important, an individual's skill can not always make a kit and weapon viable, unlike in ME3MP.

 

Saying that, i hope we do get weapon progression to alleviate RNG.  e.g.:  crafting a weapon you already have, to improve it's level.

[ShadowSociety]

It's not the RNG that bothers me in DAMP, it's the lack of feeling of progression. They only thing that feels like progression is the promotion system but it's a drag to promote and start off with no skills again. 

[gay_wardens]

P2W works, but Pay to Lose doesn't. In this game, you can pay for a very good chance at getting nothing. I really recommend bioware consider sellinf cosmetics for income if they can't get a good loot system like in ME3MP that's actually worth paying money for.

 

Wrong. DUST514 is pretty much pay to lose and it turned out great.

[Cryos_Feron]

It's not the RNG that bothers me in DAMP, it's the lack of feeling of progression. They only thing that feels like progression is the promotion system but it's a drag to promote and start off with no skills again. 

THIS. Definitely.

 

There is Salvaging, but it (as it is now) does not give the feeling of doing something important or making long-term-progress.

 

This means that you are always just waiting for an ultra, ultra, ultra rare weapon to drop,

while you keep getting crap after crap.

[crusader_bin]

It's not the RNG that bothers me in DAMP, it's the lack of feeling of progression. They only thing that feels like progression is the promotion system but it's a drag to promote and start off with no skills again. 

 

THIS!

 

I guess higher difficulties were also more fun in ME3 I think. I played almost exclusively gold, later platinum, even on pubs, most were specifically geared towards them, as literally only FEW combos worked on that at all, 95% of the rest doing nothing. Introducing da big geth made it a piece of cake, so If by that time someone still didn't have top tiers, it took real fast to catch up.

[JoshRainf]

I'll be honest, i clocked onto this early doors and gave up with MP. 

 

There just wasnt any satisfaction from running the same dungeons over and over for the hope to get a purple item...to do what with? run the same thing again? :S

 

stacking up the gold to get your hopes shattered by the bunch of low level items from the large chest...with the hope to get a purple item...to do what with? run the same thing again....

 

"yeah but then we can do it on perilous, makes it much easier" .... well why dont you just do routine with your low level items, surely thats the same feeling of 'power' your looking for? 

 

Dont get me wrong, i love the style of it, running round with three other human controlled companions to try and wade your way through mobs and take down a boss or two, and i have sunk a fair few hours into the MP myself and still jump on there with a couple of friends. i just feel as though it needs more content and progression (as others have mentioned) for the multiplayer to be a success. 

[crusader_bin]

The only thing they ever promissed for MP is more heroes... But more maps and enemy types make sense as well. 

I'd take higher levels and scallable dungeons too, but that's much less likely to happen. As for the loot? Maybe increase the minimum level of items that drop based on the number of promotions for certain class?

 

You could do whathever you want with the idea, even if it was crazy high number of promotions, that would at least be a GOAL.

[Demiga]

I hate to do this but the prime example of this issue right now is the game Destiny - I left that game recently when DA:I came out.  They have the pure RNG system, but its for EVERY aspect of the game.  It made it unbearable to watch a player come in late to a strike and loot an exotic while I got the same gun I got 3x already.  

 

So far - I love this game.  Yeah, there are flaws, but single player has a better loot system because the crafting system is up to par.  Yeah, I have yet to find anything that can beat a tier 3 crafted piece, but the crafting allowed us to make up for the fact I am lvl 22 and looting lvl 11-16 items.  

 

Now, for multiplayer.  The same thing can be done, but just add some stipulations.  Allow us to craft the top tier items, but make it borderline ridiculous to do so.  Make it so everytime you promote you get a "legendary" exotic crafting material.  Once you get x amount of material, you can craft a "legendary" piece.  And so Bioware can appease everyone, keep the RNG for the top tier items.  It would allow players to have that chance WHILE looking forward to crafting their own piece.  

 

IDK, this is just an example but the concept remains the same.

[crusader_bin]

I hate to do this but the prime example of this issue right now is the game Destiny - I left that game recently when DA:I came out.  They have the pure RNG system, but its for EVERY aspect of the game.  It made it unbearable to watch a player come in late to a strike and loot an exotic while I got the same gun I got 3x already.  

 

So far - I love this game.  Yeah, there are flaws, but single player has a better loot system because the crafting system is up to par.  Yeah, I have yet to find anything that can beat a tier 3 crafted piece, but the crafting allowed us to make up for the fact I am lvl 22 and looting lvl 11-16 items.  

 

Now, for multiplayer.  The same thing can be done, but just add some stipulations.  Allow us to craft the top tier items, but make it borderline ridiculous to do so.  Make it so everytime you promote you get a "legendary" exotic crafting material.  Once you get x amount of material, you can craft a "legendary" piece.  And so Bioware can appease everyone, keep the RNG for the top tier items.  It would allow players to have that chance WHILE looking forward to crafting their own piece.  

 

IDK, this is just an example but the concept remains the same.

 

I wouldn't mind the current system If I had the ability to slowly (but stedily) move towards the ability to craft something usefull. Doesn't have to be LEGENDARY. I wouldn't even mind farming a bit to get there. At least I'd have a clear objective.

 

BTW. I have Destiny for PS3, never finished the (so called) story. Tried most modes only few times before giving up. Dragon Age might be similiar to the StarWars MMO than a real, hardcore RPG game, but hey, it is still WAY, WAY better than the garbage that Destiny is. The most boring game I ever played. True, I hate playing on pad (especially FPS games). Loot THERE is pure garbage. Here, at least it's "just" unfair ^^

[Marnius]

I'd just like to add my 2cents to this discussion.

I came late to ME3MP and fell in love with it but I was already 8+ months behind everyone in terms of manifests, so buying some bioware points with real money was a good way for me to close that gap a little by little.

It worked, I was happy and BiowarEA made some extra money, so I assume they were happy.

I was in on the ground floor for DAMP as I didn't want to miss a thing like I did for ME3MP and my original plan was to spend maybe £10 - £15 a week on platinum as I have more disposable income than time at the moment and that would keep me up to date with the good folks playing DAMP.

So far though, i've spent nothing and as it is, I don't plan on spending anything either. The system is just too RNG for me. I'm not a gambling man, I want something for something, not a slim chance of getting something that may be useful but probably not.

[Lenseflare]

...

Allow us to craft the top tier items, but make it borderline ridiculous to do so...

...

 

 

I would rather this be the case than what we have now.

At least you would feel like you were working towards something rather than having the game throwing a dice for you.

[Saboteur-6]

Part of the problem I think rests in the core gameplay design difference between DA and ME. With Mass Effect being a shooter, each gun had a specific distinction and allowed for diverse build options. Now ME wasn't like this fresh out of the box but Bioware was constantly tweaking and evolving the game WEEKLY along with big expansion updates sprinkled throughout.

As it stands in DA, there's just not a lot of gameplay variety in using different weapon types even in the same weapon category. That makes it feel pretty linear and rote. Hopefully Bioware takes this into account.

[SLooPPy JOE]

My concern with the loot progression is how heavily one box roll can change the difficulty of routine/threatening. A friend of mine who plays archer went from using a level 13 blue bow dealing 110ish dps (which made threatening a decent struggle) to a level 21 purple bow of destruction. Now he can walk around threatening giggling as he racks up dozens of kills.

Compare this to the ME3MP. If I'm playing gold difficulty with a mattock X human soldier level 20 blah blah and I roll an untra rare lancer I, then I just got a nice increase in damage that will come at the cost of increased weight. I don't have the numbers on me but lets say my dps went up by 25%. In DAI I could get a level 23 weapon and see a massive increase in dps compares to level 10-15 weapons that I currently use. That's like jumping right to the Harrier X instead of the I. That's what troubles me the most about the loot system. I can randomly get an item that is balanced for perilous difficulty, when the rest of my kit and my skill is still at a much lower level.

Part of the problem I think rests in the core gameplay design difference between DA and ME. With Mass Effect being a shooter, each gun had a specific distinction and allowed for diverse build options. Now ME wasn't like this fresh out of the box but Bioware was constantly tweaking and evolving the game WEEKLY along with big expansion updates sprinkled throughout.

As it stands in DA, there's just not a lot of gameplay variety in using different weapon types even in the same weapon category. That makes it feel pretty linear and rote. Hopefully Bioware takes this into account.

This is also a concern. When I hit endgame in ME3 I found most of my enjoyment from putting uncommon/rare tier guns on a turian soldier and trying to make them viable at high difficulty levels. The weapons in DAI will need game changing passive effects to convince me to downgrade to a inferior weapon.

[crusader_bin]

A buch of stuff...

I agree, the game is much less balanced than ME3, I already though about that.

Sure, ME3 on platinum worked only with very few overpowered weapons and the rest was completely useless. But most of the rest were quite playable.

Here, it feels like the whole game is about that sort of imbalance. You either have it too easy or too hard.

And it has nothing to do with how much you play, how good you are.

 

In essence, it's not about playing the game. It's about winning the DAMP lottery.

[rafoquinha]

Yes! The chests need some adjustments

[DakotaCoty]

I didn't get much when I bought chests, when I used gold I got a tonne of uniques last night, getting gold is really fast anyway if you keep completing Threatening, so you may as well grind it

 

With a good group of players, threatening grinds come out with the best Gold:Time ratio