470 réponses à ce sujet

[D_Dude1210]

Does it really matter what the proportion is for male/female/LGBT is in a game's playerbase? Does it really matter that some find hetero male LIs attractive and some don't? Does it really matter that previous games shafted certain genders/orientations? Does it really matter if it seems petty to to you?

I mean, what relevance is all that really? If people feel that the LIs look like butt and wanna complain about it, I say go on ahead. Free country, free internet, public forum. If you don't agree, make your own topic about how hot they are. Or just disagree here, too, if you want. Just don't be such a wanker about it. If you feel shafted by previous games, post in their forums and complain there. If it seems petty, then bear in mind you're complaining about someone complaining about something petty, kinda makes you petty+.

[daveliam]

Does it really matter what the proportion is for male/female/LGBT is in a game's playerbase? Does it really matter that some find hetero male LIs attractive and some don't? Does it really matter that previous games shafted certain genders/orientations? Does it really matter if it seems petty to to you?

I mean, what relevance is all that really? If people feel that the LIs look like butt and wanna complain about it, I say go on ahead. Free country, free internet, public forum. If you don't agree, make your own topic about how hot they are. Or just disagree here, too, if you want. Just don't be such a wanker about it. If you feel shafted by previous games, post in their forums and complain there. If it seems petty, then bear in mind you're complaining about someone complaining about something petty, kinda makes you petty+.

 

I actually don't think that it matters, to be honest.  Bioware has stated numerous time that they are not concerned with catering to solely straight male gamers as a demographic and are interested in including gaming opportunities that are geared towards women and/or LGBT individuals.  This is their call.  They don't need to do it within the proportion of the 'real world' demographics.  But some people continue to fall back on:  "But there are more of us so we should get more content" arguments that have already been invalidated by the developers.

 

Personally, I don't have have an issue with people being unhappy about their choices this game either.  If people are unhappy, they should absolutely provide that feedback to Bioware so that the devs are aware of people's preferences in romance content.  I was unhappy with my choices in every game except for ME 3.  The issue that I have with it is when it's presented as if it's part of a super-secret anti-hetero man agenda.  In past games, gay men have been unhappy with their options.  In past games, lesbians have been unhappy with their options.  In past games, straight women have been unhappy with their options.  In this game, it seems it's mostly straight men that are unhappy with their options.  It's not an agenda, it's just life.  Yet the victim complexes here run deep. 

[LordParbr]

Hmm, the sweet scent of indignant straight-male-gamer tears. Wow, must suck not having your every whim catered to for five freaking seconds.

That isn't how equality works. We don't take turns being catered to

The point is, for a company that prides themselves on "choices," it's ridiculously lopsided in favor of bi female PCs. A bi female PC has 6 options(so long as they're an elf) Bull, Blackwall, Solas, Josephine, Cullen, and Sera

A bi male PC has 4: Cass, Josie, Dorian, and Bull.

A straight female PC has 4: Blackwall, Solas, Cullen, and Bull

A lebian PC has 2: Sera and Josie

A straight male PC has 2: Cass and Josie

A gay male PC has 2: Dorian and Bull

I can get the "straight male PCs have always had more LI options, so you have no reason to complain" thing, but the discrepancy has never been this broad.

Now, personally, I really don't care that straight female PCs have more options than straight male PCs. My problem is that the choices, in general, for male PCs are so similar. To have any choice of value, you have to play a gay character(with which I don't have much of a problem, personally) because Josephine has such a small personality. Most of her personality seems to be in her backstory. They give her a colorful past to make her more interesting, instead of giving her an endearing personality. So, she's dull, and very plain-looking. Both straight male options are dark-haired, human women with Western-European accents and features. Snore.

I play a variety of different types of characters, but I always play a straight male character first, and the options were just really disappointing this time around. Gay dudes and lesbians have a similar problem. Although gay guys have it easier, since they have Dorian and Iron Bull: 2 really great characters.

[Xilizhra]

That isn't how equality works. We don't take turns being catered to

And indeed we're not. It isn't as though straight men were neglected, aside from arguably the adviser romance, which might not have been everything that Bioware intended... but that also hit lesbians, keep in mind.

[D_Dude1210]

I actually don't think that it matters, to be honest.  Bioware has stated numerous time that they are not concerned with catering to solely straight male gamers as a demographic and are interested in including gaming opportunities that are geared towards women and/or LGBT individuals.  This is their call.  They don't need to do it within the proportion of the 'real world' demographics.  But some people continue to fall back on:  "But there are more of us so we should get more content" arguments that have already been invalidated by the developers.
 
Personally, I don't have have an issue with people being unhappy about their choices this game either.  If people are unhappy, they should absolutely provide that feedback to Bioware so that the devs are aware of people's preferences in romance content.  I was unhappy with my choices in every game except for ME 3.  The issue that I have with it is when it's presented as if it's part of a super-secret anti-hetero man agenda.  In past games, gay men have been unhappy with their options.  In past games, lesbians have been unhappy with their options.  In past games, straight women have been unhappy with their options.  In this game, it seems it's mostly straight men that are unhappy with their options.  It's not an agenda, it's just life.  Yet the victim complexes here run deep.

Hey, if they think there are more of them, then let them think there are more of them. What's the point in arguing that really? No one (so far) seems to have solid evidence of one or the other. So all you're getting is a shallow circular debate due to an evidence standoff. Disagree, shrug it off, then move on IMO. You're of course free to stay in those kinds of discussions. But you seem like a sensible fella, don't really see how those can be fun.

While, admittedly, there were people going the whole "LGBT agenda" early on in this thread, don't think I've seen that the past 10 pages. Right now, many just believe that the LIs are fugly and those people are entitled to their own opinions. Don't get the need why some people feel the need to defend fictional characters' honor like they'd damage their fictional self esteem or something.

[D_Dude1210]

And indeed we're not. It isn't as though straight men were neglected, aside from arguably the adviser romance, which might not have been everything that Bioware intended... but that also hit lesbians, keep in mind.

Hey, if you think the lesbian route sucks, then complain about that, too. Open a discussion and let your voice be heard.

[daveliam]

Hey, if they think there are more of them, then let them think there are more of them. What's the point in arguing that really? No one (so far) seems to have solid evidence of one or the other. So all you're getting is a shallow circular debate due to an evidence standoff. Disagree, shrug it off, then move on IMO. You're of course free to stay in those kinds of discussions. But you seem like a sensible fella, don't really see how those can be fun.

While, admittedly, there were people going the whole "LGBT agenda" early on in this thread, don't think I've seen that the past 10 pages. Right now, many just believe that the LIs are fugly and those people are entitled to their own opinions. Don't get the need why some people feel the need to defend fictional characters' honor like they'd damage their fictional self esteem or something.

 

The reality is that there probably are more of them.  However, that doesn't really entitle them to anything.  It's just frustrating to be told that your experience is less valid because there are more people not like you.  Women have been going through this in gaming for years so it's frustrating to see someone make that argument on the boards of a company that takes a very different approach.  People who want to see more options for straight men when compared to everyone else can go to any other developer on the planet and get that.  People who want to see options for women and/or LGBT people can really only expect to see that here.  That's why I get so frustrated at times.  It's like this is the one bastion for people like me, yet 'the majority' can't be happy to give us anything.  It's frustrating, especially since I suspect that most of 'the majority' self-proclaimed representatives (another big pet peeve, speak for yourself, not for 'all straight men') will likely fade away from the BSN within a few weeks again anyway. 

 

The data thing is just a pet peeve of mine.  It doesn't come up too often here, but happened to hit the same thread on two consecutive days so it makes me look a little like a research-standards nazi.  Sometimes I just can't help myself and then I have a coffee and laugh at how indignant I get on the boards sometimes.....

[Xilizhra]

Hey, if you think the lesbian route sucks, then complain about that, too. Open a discussion and let your voice be heard.

Have done. However, there are already preexisting discussions about both romance issues, so I need not make new topics.

 

 

The data thing is just a pet peeve of mine.  It doesn't come up too often here, but happened to hit the same thread on two consecutive days so it makes me look a little like a research-standards nazi.  Sometimes I just can't help myself and then I have a coffee and laugh at how indignant I get on the boards sometimes.....

Oh, you do that? I just stay perpetually righteously indignant.

[WarBaby2]

That isn't how equality works. We don't take turns being catered to

According to some people, it is.

 

Personally, I think the whole discussion about female/minority gamers has become quite tiresome. There have always been all sorts of people in gaming, and even IF the numbers of female/minority gamers is rising (actualy, unaltered numbers are hard to come by there), it is not because the games have changed so drastically to cater to them, it is because more of them are interested in games as the ARE, and no matter what the (very) vocal minority of social justice types try to claim, there doesn't have to be special treatment to keep games successful.

 

Still, as far as romance options go, the game is pretty balanced, but since BW has clearly shifted their focus to make the game as big and long as possible by intruducing open world elements and, frankly, simple busy work (with moderate success), the characters and storylines as a whole are not that great or innovative. So, yea, all romance options, not only the hetero male ones, are rather shallow and limited, but that's just how the game is...

[Pierce Miller]

The hatred on this thread No matter what happens someone is going to be annoyed, Hell I was annoyed when I first saw the options.

[Abaddon_86]

The reality is that there probably are more of them.  However, that doesn't really entitle them to anything. 

 

 

I see you have understood the mechanics of democracy well, young Sith apprentice...

[Lord Surinen]

I wholeheartedly agree. I don't know the numbers but if they are the same or close to those concerning other AAA titles then straight males are the healthy majority of players and they should get the most out of romances. It is a business and we are paying customers customers.

 

I do not support real life political statements in the games nor I wish to fund them. It is a good moment to rethink potential DA purchases in the future.

 

Cassandra is definately not feminine looking character. As a male elf player I have no romance option at all; potential children would be humans.

[dorktainian]

ah.... cassandra.  

[LordParbr]

And indeed we're not. It isn't as though straight men were neglected, aside from arguably the adviser romance, which might not have been everything that Bioware intended... but that also hit lesbians, keep in mind.

I did. i expanded my post for clarity.
 

ah.... cassandra.  

Right on

[daveliam]

 

I do not support real life political statements in the games nor I wish to fund them. It is a good moment to rethink potential DA purchases in the future.

 

 

[Xilizhra]

I wholeheartedly agree. I don't know the numbers but if they are the same or close to those concerning other AAA titles then straight males are the healthy majority of players and they should get the most out of romances. It is a business and we are paying customers customers.

Now this I can't get behind. There's no reason to inherently favor or disfavor any particular demographic with romance options.

[LordParbr]

 

Everyone complaining about the characters looks should post pics of themselves. I think that would be a fun experiment. 

irrelevant. My overwhelming ugliness doesn't change the fact that I'm not attracted to Josephine.

[LordParbr]

I wholeheartedly agree. I don't know the numbers but if they are the same or close to those concerning other AAA titles then straight males are the healthy majority of players and they should get the most out of romances. It is a business and we are paying customers customers.

 

I do not support real life political statements in the games nor I wish to fund them. It is a good moment to rethink potential DA purchases in the future.

 

Cassandra is definately not feminine looking character. As a male elf player I have no romance option at all; potential children would be humans.

No, this is stupid. No one should be catered to at the expense of the other demographics.

[dorktainian]

seriously don't know what the fuss is about.  i remember having a chuckle when accidently clicking on certain same sex romance options.  

 

who tho can resist cassandra and that booty?  

[Xilizhra]

I did. i expanded my post for clarity.

Hmmm.

 

Well, I think it's a bit silly to complain about bisexuals getting the most, as that's... inevitable. I will agree that the straight male options weren't very diverse, and that's a more valid complaint to me than them being unattractive. And I admit, I very much wish Dorian was a woman and was open to women...

[Britcorp]

No, this is stupid. No one should be catered to at the expense of the other demographics.

You don't think businesses should cater to their target demographics at the expense of other ones?

[LordParbr]

Hmmm.

 

Well, I think it's a bit silly to complain about bisexuals getting the most, as that's... inevitable. I will agree that the straight male options weren't very diverse, and that's a more valid complaint to me than them being unattractive. And I admit, I very much wish Dorian was a woman and was open to women...

Well, to be fair, lebian elves have the same number of choices as bisexual men...

[Xilizhra]

Well, to be fair, lebian elves have the same number of choices as bisexual men...

Er, two?

[LordParbr]

You don't think businesses should cater to their target demographics at the expense of other ones?

Not when it isn't necessary for sales. The number of people who didn't pick this up because of the LI situation is insignificant.