Almost half of Biowares characters fall into the LGBT community half of the population is not in that category simple as that.
You know I said roughly 3 not exactly right? There was an old finding in America that said 10% but was then debunked by almost everyone when Gallup did theirs.
...I've seen the Gallup poll. I'm not new to it.
This is just, like, your opinion bro. Why don't you just imagine fighting in your head?
lol IKR? What if Bioware devs themselves love doing this stuff (aside from the Internet arguments)?
Exactly, it specifically notes the limitations in the write-up and clarifies that it only represents "adult Americans who publicly identify themselves as part of the LGBT community when asked in a survey context". So anyone who doesn't feel like they want to answer this question in a poll isn't represented. Nor are the people who are still not 'out of the closet'. Nor are the people who engage in s/s relationships but don't identify as gay. This 3.4% represents the lowest starting statistic and the reality is that the actual number is going to be much higher than this.
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You are using US statistics to represent Thedosian individuals. Not valid. Show me a gallup poll for Thedosian individuals and we can talk.
Yeah you basically said all I was going to say. 3% is the out and open LGBT that consider themselves part of the community. I mean really, it isn't hard to figure it out.
Its the best research out there to find out the number in the world, I like statistics sue me. If you think that Gallup would put out a number that could not represent a close amount on such a sensitive subject would be ridiculous.
Its a close amount for what it is. It can't know the secrets that people won't report. Not in a bloody poll. Come on.
Hell I know several closeted men and women that would never have checked Yes. This isn't a mystery.
Guest_Juromaro_*
I don't check you on that. From what I've see there's a third step, which is that the anti-gay crowd starts to get really hysterical when they find their concerns are not validated by the community. I suppose we could subject this to actual analysis, since locked threads are seldom deleted.
You need only look at the first 3-4 pages of the other thread on this subforum to get a general consensus of how these topics generally end up. But yes I agree, the anti-gay crowd is just as guilty of this as the pro-gay crowd, at least in the last week or so.
Exactly, it specifically notes the limitations in the write-up and clarifies that it only represents "adult Americans who publicly identify themselves as part of the LGBT community when asked in a survey context". So anyone who doesn't feel like they want to answer this question in a poll isn't represented. Nor are the people who are still not 'out of the closet'. Nor are the people who engage in s/s relationships but don't identify as gay. This 3.4% represents the lowest starting statistic and the reality is that the actual number is going to be much higher than this. Even the authors themselves don't claim that only 3.4% of Americans are LGBT, but 'armchair statisticians' certainly do.
Exactly, it specifically notes the limitations in the write-up and clarifies that it only represents "adult Americans who publicly identify themselves as part of the LGBT community when asked in a survey context". So anyone who doesn't feel like they want to answer this question in a poll isn't represented. Nor are the people who are still not 'out of the closet'. Nor are the people who engage in s/s relationships but don't identify as gay. This 3.4% represents the lowest starting statistic and the reality is that the actual number is going to be much higher than this. Even the authors themselves don't claim that only 3.4% of Americans are LGBT, but 'armchair statisticians' certainly do.
You are using US statistics to represent Thedosian individuals. Not valid. Show me a gallup poll for Thedosian individuals and we can talk.
That last bit is the main problem for me, if the people of thedas have a percentage of LGBT people like we do in our world its unlikely there would always be at least two or more of them in our party. Unless they put out some codex entry on that it will bother me a bit.
Its the best research out there to find out the number in the world, I like statistics sue me. If you think that Gallup would put out a number that could not represent a close amount on such a sensitive subject would be ridiculous.
You might "like statistics", but you clearly don't understand how to interpret them. They don't claim that their data represents all Americans. It only represents Americans willing to publicly identify as gay in a poll. It says so right in the write-up. You can claim that this means that "roughly" 3.4% of Americans are actually LGBT, but you are ignoring the fact that it's likely much higher and we don't have any data to show how much higher.
I will tell you this, though, the % of Americans who are openly out as LGBT is much higher now than it was twenty years ago. It's not because there are more gay people now. It's because societal norms have shifted and it's more accepted to be out now. As those norms continue to shift, expect the numbers to continue to grow and grow. I'm not sure how high it will go.
I'm no mathematician... But out of 9 companions you have 2 gay and 1 bi.
Doesn't seem like half of anything to me, unless there's an abundance of NPCs that are LGBT to make up for the difference that I'm not aware of.
How do you know cole is straight?
True. But do you have a study that identifies or at least estimates the % of said population in order to at least have some way of determining the margin of error of shown study?
Margin of error is just one factor here. There's also sampling bias and self-reporting error.
But, no, I don't have any other studies to cite, which is why I'm not making claims about the actual number. Just pointing out that using a single study that clearly identifies limitations in it's write-up isn't exactly reliable data and is certainly nothing I'd hang my academic hat on. Plus, I wanted to correct the misinterpretation and misrepresentation of that data in this thread.
That last bit is the main problem for me, if the people of thedas have a percentage of LGBT people like we do in our world its unlikely there would always be at least two or more of them in our party. Unless they put out some codex entry on that it will bother me a bit.
Right, but we have evidence that there is likely a larger LGBT population in Thedas. We see way more LGBT people living openly in Thedas than we do in the "real world", so that's your evidence right there. The fact that 10 out of 17 love interests are LGBT IS data that suggests that Thedas has a different demographic than the "real world".
You might "like statistics", but you clearly don't understand how to interpret them. They don't claim that their data represents all Americans. It only represents Americans willing to publicly identify as gay in a poll. It says so right in the write-up. You can claim that this means that "roughly" 3.4% of Americans are actually LGBT, but you are ignoring the fact that it's likely much higher and we don't have any data to show how much higher.
I will tell you this, though, the % of Americans who are openly out as LGBT is much higher now than it was twenty years ago. It's not because there are more gay people now. It's because societal norms have shifted and it's more accepted to be out now. As those norms continue to shift, expect the numbers to continue to grow and grow. I'm not sure how high it will go.
Well without any empirical data you dont have much of an argument and I would assume that most adults wouldnt feel the need to lie about their sexuality on a poll. Its not like they had to openly scream it to everyone, they just had to check the box.
You might "like statistics", but you clearly don't understand how to interpret them. They don't claim that their data represents all Americans. It only represents Americans willing to publicly identify as gay in a poll. It says so right in the write-up. You can claim that this means that "roughly" 3.4% of Americans are actually LGBT, but you are ignoring the fact that it's likely much higher and we don't have any data to show how much higher.
I will tell you this, though, the % of Americans who are openly out as LGBT is much higher now than it was twenty years ago. It's not because there are more gay people now. It's because societal norms have shifted and it's more accepted to be out now. As those norms continue to shift, expect the numbers to continue to grow and grow. I'm not sure how high it will go. I'm confident that it's not a 50-50 thing, but I wouldn't be surprised to see it end up at about 10-15%, but that's not based on any empirical data.
Same. Like I've mentioned before, there has been more recent polling of high school and college students (so either Gen Z or the youngest Gen Y) and numbers are substantially higher than even the 2000s. There may be room for error or even an overreporting in some ways, but its seemingly settling at closer to 10-15% after everything is factored in. (NOTE: Not just gay, but even bisexuals that may be in a hetero relationship and be hetero inclined, etc)
LGBT is a minority status that many people can successfully (in a way at least) hide. And many do that, even in the most socially liberal cultures. 3% is a nice number for its intent, but it is junk for knowing how many will admit their LGBT identity when they feel there is nothing wrong with doing so. The younger generations are showcasing this in an amazing fashion, and they'll continue to do so.
Cole has a childlike view on sex. I think he's essentially asexual, which just puts him in the "not 50% gay" category.How do you know cole is straight?
How do you know cole is straight?
Don't be like that.
Margin of error is just one factor here. There's also sampling bias and self-reporting error.
But, no, I don't have any other studies to cite, which is why I'm not making claims about the actual number. Just pointing out that using a single study that clearly identifies limitations in it's write-up isn't exactly reliable data and is certainly nothing I'd hang my academic hat on. Plus, I wanted to correct the misinterpretation and misrepresentation of that data in this thread.
Right, but we have evidence that there is likely a larger LGBT population in Thedas. We see way more LGBT people living openly in Thedas than we do in the "real world", so that's your evidence right there. The fact that 10 out of 17 love interests are LGBT IS data that suggests that Thedas has a different demographic than the "real world".
I guess Ill just have to take that then. What would the percentage be for Thedas then you suppose, like 60% or something?
Cole has a childlike view on sex. I think he's essentially asexual, which just puts him in the "not 50% gay" category.
Even if that is true because he still fits into the larger portion of the LGBT community which is LGBTQIA
Well without any empirical data you dont have much of an argument and I would assume that most adults wouldnt feel the need to lie about their sexuality on a poll. Its not like they had to openly scream it to everyone, they just had to check the box.
You would assume wrong. Many consider their careers on the line (whether rightfully or not) if they even let out a peep about their non-hetero sexuality. My own bf in a socially liberal city and workplace was irrationally worried about it until he finally told someone.
Its an irrational thing in many western nations (though still done) but there's definitely a reason why we get like 1% LGBT numbers in, say, highly Islamic middle-eastern nations. And it isn't because they only have 1% LGBT.
Well without any empirical data you dont have much of an argument and I would assume that most adults wouldnt feel the need to lie about their sexuality on a poll. Its not like they had to openly scream it to everyone, they just had to check the box.
I do have an argument. It's the argument that your empirical data is limited (as noted by the researchers) and doesn't say what you think it says. Therefore, your argument is not as strong as you claim it is. That's my argument. I'm not making claims as to the number of LGBT people, so I don't need to provide evidence around that statistic.
And you are incredibly naive if you think that people don't hide their sexuality from strangers. As someone who lived briefly in the closet (from puberty through early college), I can tell you first hand that people will absolutely not identify openly as gay if they are trying to keep it a secret. Even on an 'anonymous' poll.
I guess Ill just have to take that then. What would the percentage be for Thedas then you suppose, like 60% or something?
Don't be ridiculous. From what we have seen in the NPCs it's not even 50:50. Something around 10-15% max.
Even if that is true because he still fits into the larger portion of the LGBT community which is LGBTQIA
Or no? Because he's a spirit?
I guess Ill just have to take that then. What would the percentage be for Thedas then you suppose, like 60% or something?
I genuinely don't know. Based on the fact that the majority of NPCs that indicate sexual orientation show o/s attraction (LGB representation in the LI's is partially a game dynamic, after all), I'd say that the majority of people are still likely straight. But it might be closer to 30-40% LGBT if I were spit-balling. But that's hardly 'hard data'. It's just anecdotal evidence from interacting with people who openly show attraction to any gender.
I do have an argument. It's the argument that your empirical data is limited (as noted by the researchers) and doesn't say what you think it says. Therefore, your argument is not as strong as you claim it is. That's my argument. I'm not making claims as to the number of LGBT people, so I don't need to provide evidence around that statistic.
And you are incredibly naive if you think that people don't hide their sexuality from strangers. As someone who lived briefly in the closet (from puberty through early college), I can tell you first hand that people will absolutely not identify openly as gay if they are trying to keep it a secret. Even on an 'anonymous' poll.
I dont know I could admit some pretty nasty things if it was on an anonymous poll. But whatever Im tired of arguing.
Jesus Christ. He's a spirit. He's not even a person like the other companions.Even if that is true because he still fits into the larger portion of the LGBT community which is LGBTQIA
I dont know I could admit some pretty nasty things if it was on an anonymous poll. But whatever Im tired of arguing.
You could. But I don't think most people will. If it's a secret, why admit it to anyone, even a stranger? Believe me, when I didn't want anyone to know my sexuality, I went to huge efforts to hide it from everyone. I would never have self-identified in a survey.
I'm not going to take fabio012 seriously anymore and will be aborting the thread, but I just wanted to say one last thing.
Straight males have plenty of options. When it comes to partners, they have 3 that are female. I know for a fact that many hetero males pick a female protagonist because of their own reasons. If you want a female LI, you got em.
Cassandra is not a man. Are you blind?
Josephine is the sweet romance. What's wrong with that? Plenty of guys enjoy and appreciate that. I KNOW they do.
Sera is certainly not my type (face, characterization), but I know at least one friend who rolled a Female Inquisitor and romanced her and enjoyed it.
You have options. Good ones. Hyperbole makes you just a joke thread on the Bioware Forums. *clap clap* good job.
Jesus Christ.
I can't....
Listen, it's clear you've got an issue with the amount of non straight content. I can't for the life of me figure out why it affects you so immensely when you're not even upset about the options for straight people. We will just have to leave it at that. We've got very different view points on LGBT everything, clearly.
I just like facts and statistics I dont care about emotions when arguing but yeah we can agree to disagree Im tired of this thread anyway.
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