52 réponses à ce sujet

[draken-heart]

I have been trying to avoid mage this game (do not want to play a mage romancing Sera, because of the Mage/Rogue dynamic from the first two games), but have decided to cave in and try a female mage Trevelyan. I just want advice on three things:

1. Primary builds for the character. Thinking of going either Rift mage (imagining it is more unlocking more power from the mark/anchor) or Knight Enchanter.
2. Companions: Sera will probably be given, but tank for certain.
3. Best specialization of the two choices in 1, from a story/RP perspective.

If you have any advice on any of these, feel free to respond.

[Lerrasien]

I like rift mage, I find KE just boring if you use it the way it's made to be used simply because you can basically solo Nightmare and it still feels easy. Things take a little longer to die when you're solo of course, but good luck dying. As for companions I usually go 2 mage 1 tank 1 rogue (usually archer) - although I have gone dw rogue (cole for assassin), Solas for cc, Cass for tank with some dps, and I was an archer rogue with assassin. Our damage ratios were insane, but with the lack of barrier it was a little trickier than most team comps, but of course solas made up for a lot of that with his cc.

[draken-heart]

I like rift mage, I find KE just boring if you use it the way it's made to be used simply because you can basically solo Nightmare and it still feels easy. Things take a little longer to die when you're solo of course, but good luck dying. As for companions I usually go 2 mage 1 tank 1 rogue (usually archer) - although I have gone dw rogue (cole for assassin), Solas for cc, Cass for tank with some dps, and I was an archer rogue with assassin. Our damage ratios were insane, but with the lack of barrier it was a little trickier than most team comps, but of course solas made up for a lot of that with his cc.

The reason I was considering the Knight Enchanter is for the Passive boost to Barrier on damage and the slower barrier decay. Better for survival, but Rift Mage seems like it makes more sense for the story.

[Gerudan]

I play a hybrid build around the KE and yeah...it is really easy and powerful. I have a lot of fun with it, but I can understand, that a lot of players would find it boring. You just don't get damaged...like...at all. 

 

Couple that with fire skills and the Fire Mine that does 1600% weapons damage + 2000% WD as a dot (due to the upgrade of the spell and other talents) + additional damage due to your barrier strength and you can do like 8k to 10k damage even in mediocre gear with ONE 35 mana spell. Not to mention the spirit blade that and fade walk that also do great damage for their low mana costs, so you can actually spam them. 

 

I haven't used Solas for a while, so I don't know how the Rift Mage playes, but KE is fun but easy. So there you go. 

[JaegerBane]

I think my biggest issue with Rift Mage is that it doesn't feel particularly well-themed, more a hodgepodge combo of various spells from earlier games thrown together with the weakness effect tacked on to hold it together. In terms of gameplay though, my issue would be that it's dependant on the weakness effect and CC... If an enemy is immune or the spell fails to take hold for whatever reason then you're screwed.

Knight Enchanter feels much more solid, both from gameplay and theme angles. Combined with Fade Walk, the player has a lot more freedom to fill in any role and always be at the forefront of whatever is going on, which makes it quite a 'hero' spec.

[Bruxae]

Use a mixed build, alot of resistances and weaknesses through out the game, personally I got winters grasp, chain lightning, Immolate and barrier as my main spells, upgraded those then my specialization and passives, worked REALLY well, I tried pure lightning and pure cold and it was terrible in comparison. As for specialization it depends a bit on what you are looking for, KE is melee so it feels a bit pointless unless you want to focus your build around it, as in making all your other spells more supporty rather then ranged nuke. I never tried the rift mage because his spells are physical damage and Necromancer had spirit damage which almost everyone is weak too. So yeah, I think any of them would work - grab what you think you would enjoy the most from a story perspective, I think they are all good, I can recommend Necromancer as a ranged nuker - the added spirit dot dmg is incredible - especially walking bomb. I'd only go KE if I wanted to focus on it, switch my other spells to mostly spirit stuff and only use my sword as dps. Also Simocalruaralrum (the ghost form) from Necromancers are pretty sweet when your party is whiping, since you are immune to damage you can revive someone while dead giving you another shot, saved me on many dragon fights.

[ExFalsoQuodlibet]

KE is stupidly good.  You drop 4 talents into it and you go from fragile caster to nigh-unkillable. (Spirit Blade, Combat Clarity, Fade Shield, Knight-Protector). Even if you never use Spirit Blade, the 3 passives are insanely good. 

 

Give Vivienne some AoE damage spells (I recommend Immolate/Chain, and the Clean Burn passive) and then work the left side of the Spirit Tree with her while setting Barrier to a preferred spell and just watch your party survivability jump immensely without even working for it - the AI doesn't even use KE at anything close to its potential as a spirit-blade-spamming, ninja-dodging monstrosity. 

 

I'd honestly recommend NOT going KE on your main if you're playing on less than Nightmare difficulty. I personally have difficulty avoiding the dark, dark path of button-mashing spirit blade once I have it mapped to my controller, and the game pretty much ceases to be a challenge on normal/hard if you use it. 

[jedidotflow]

3. Best specialization of the two choices in 1, from a story/RP perspective.

 

From a story/RP perspective, you should be a Rift Mage. Your mark allows you to seal Rifts; it's quite viable that you, as a mage, find some other ways to tinker with its capability and find a way to actually control it. The Mark would also explain why you're quicker in learning the spec while Solas did it by traveling through the Fade for years.

[draken-heart]

From a story/RP perspective, you should be a Rift Mage. Your mark allows you to seal Rifts; it's quite viable that you, as a mage, find some other ways to tinker with its capability and find a way to actually control it. The Mark would also explain why you're quicker in learning the spec while Solas did it by traveling through the Fade for years.

Yeah, that is what is making me seriously lean towards rift mage. Though KE seems like it could work for post-game or something headcanon.

[JaegerBane]

From a story/RP perspective, you should be a Rift Mage. Your mark allows you to seal Rifts; it's quite viable that you, as a mage, find some other ways to tinker with its capability and find a way to actually control it. The Mark would also explain why you're quicker in learning the spec while Solas did it by traveling through the Fade for years.

The thing with 'storyline' reasons is that there isn't a metric to judge by. The above is a compelling reason to go rift Mage... But no more compelling then a scholar-turned-rebel who suddenly finds themselves at the forefront of three-way conflict between religion, otherworldly invasions and order would turn their talents to a much more martial focus, I.e. Knight Enchanter.

As draken says, if it works in headcanon, then it works by definition.

[draken-heart]

The thing with 'storyline' reasons is that there isn't a metric to judge by. The above is a compelling reason to go rift Mage... But no more compelling then a scholar-turned-rebel who suddenly finds themselves at the forefront of three-way conflict between religion, otherworldly invasions and order would turn their talents to a much more martial focus, I.e. Knight Enchanter.

As draken says, if it works in headcanon, then it works by definition.

 

I usually play on Casual (because I dislike the whole difficulty of combat at higher levels for essentially no gain), but that is a good point as well.

 

Head aches just thinking about this.

 

Also, probably going to put more of a focus on the specialization with Kayleigh Trevelyan (my mage), whereas the other mages will probably focus more on one of the elemental schools  for the other mages (I.E.: Dorian goes mostly into fire, Solas probably ice for CC, Viv maybe lighting or something).

 

For a headcanon: Kayleigh never really wanted to fight, but had to in order to stay alive, thanks to the blasted Grand Enchanter and the rebel mages. So that might lean it a bit more to Rift Mage. May consider Necromancer at some point in the storyline, considering I have not made it to the point with the specializations yet.

[jedidotflow]

The thing with 'storyline' reasons is that there isn't a metric to judge by. The above is a compelling reason to go rift Mage... But no more compelling then a scholar-turned-rebel who suddenly finds themselves at the forefront of three-way conflict between religion, otherworldly invasions and order would turn their talents to a much more martial focus, I.e. Knight Enchanter.

As draken says, if it works in headcanon, then it works by definition.

 

Well, OP asked for one so I provided it. It still makes more sense than the KE since at no point in the game, IIRC, is it ever implied or said that you were in line to become any sort of enchanter. Headcanon is great and all, but RM makes the most sense from a vanilla perspective.

[JaegerBane]

Well, OP asked for one so I provided it. It still makes more sense than the KE since at no point in the game, IIRC, is it ever implied or said that you were in line to become any sort of enchanter. Headcanon is great and all, but RM makes the most sense from a vanilla perspective.

I think my point was that since you can't line two stories up and judge which is best due to a lack of metric, the only thing that matters is whether it works for you, there's not much point trying to tell other people that their headcanon doesn't work unless it contradicts something.

For example, to me, claiming the canon doesn't allow KEs because no-one ever calls you 'an Enchanter' is basically nonsense as it implies that you can only take a class that happens to have the same name as an unrelated title. It's like claiming you can't take necromancer because it isn't green, and it no point does it even look green. But if that is how your headcanon works then more power to you

[draken-heart]

Well, OP asked for one so I provided it. It still makes more sense than the KE since at no point in the game, IIRC, is it ever implied or said that you were in line to become any sort of enchanter. Headcanon is great and all, but RM makes the most sense from a vanilla perspective.

I think my point was that since you can't line two stories up and judge which is best due to a lack of metric, the only thing that matters is whether it works for you, there's not much point trying to tell other people that their headcanon doesn't work unless it contradicts something.

For example, to me, claiming the canon doesn't allow KEs because no-one ever calls you 'an Enchanter' is basically nonsense as it implies that you can only take a class that happens to have the same name as an unrelated title. It's like claiming you can't take necromancer because it isn't green, and it no point does it even look green. But if that is how your headcanon works then more power to you

Thing is, Rift mage does make more sense that KE, especially from a story/RP perspective. KE works, but it makes little sense outside of "leader" of the inquisition.

[JaegerBane]

Thing is, Rift mage does make more sense that KE, especially from a story/RP perspective. KE works, but it makes little sense outside of "leader" of the inquisition.

Why? Because it has 'Rift' in the title? What happens if you're playing a Mage that doesn't agree with solas's views on the veil and doesn't want to weaken it any further? What happens if you're playing a Mage that is, as you say, more focused on leading the Inquisition then researching the Fade?

Trying to say one spec is somehow definitively 'more sensible' than another is waste of time. Surely it depends on your character's priorities?

[draken-heart]

Why? Because it has 'Rift' in the title? What happens if you're playing a Mage that doesn't agree with solas's views on the veil and doesn't want to weaken it any further? What happens if you're playing a Mage that is, as you say, more focused on leading the Inquisition then researching the Fade?

Trying to say one spec is somehow definitively 'more sensible' than another is waste of time. Surely it depends on your character's priorities?

Not because it has 'Rift' in the name, but because it has to do with the fade, and the entire story has to do with the fade. You are right that it comes down to RP, but from a story standpoint, Rift mage is more sensible because of how the story functions.

[JaegerBane]

Not because it has 'Rift' in the name, but because it has to do with the fade, and the entire story has to do with the fade.

All mage specialisations are about the Fade. That's how they work. That's how the whole class works. The only real difference for the Rift Mage is that he creates rifts, which is the opposite of what you're supposed to be doing.

[draken-heart]

All mage specialisations are about the Fade. That's how they work. That's how the whole class works. The only real difference for the Rift Mage is that he creates rifts, which is the opposite of what you're supposed to be doing.

Necromancer is all about pulling spirits from the fade. Knight Enchanter is all about using the fade as a tool. Rift mage is more about utilizing the fade directly, not like most mages. And no, the only "rift" that is really created with the Rift mage is the Pull of the Abyss spell, the others logically used the essence of the fade, not creating rifts.

 

In fact, if you read up on the Rift mage, it seems that it is more about using stray magic and Essences of the fade than creating rifts.

[JaegerBane]

Necromancer is all about pulling spirits from the fade. Knight Enchanter is all about using the fade as a tool. Rift mage is more about utilizing the fade directly, not like most mages. And no, the only "rift" that is really created with the Rift mage is the Pull of the Abyss spell, the others logically used the essence of the fade, not creating rifts.
 
In fact, if you read up on the Rift mage, it seems that it is more about using stray magic and Essences of the fade than creating rifts.

I think my point was more that splitting hairs about exactly how much of the Fade a given specialisation uses isn't much more convincing then arguing it based on its name, or its colour, or what it rhymes with. The above argument doesn't even make sense as one minute it it uses the fade directly, then the next it only uses it a little, but presumably a little bit more than the others etc etc.

This is exactly why I was pointing out that headcanon trumps everything else, as the logic is meaningless

[draken-heart]

I think my point was more that splitting hairs about exactly how much of the Fade a given specialisation uses isn't much more convincing then arguing it based on its name, or its colour, or what it rhymes with. The above argument doesn't even make sense as one minute it it uses the fade directly, then the next it only uses it a little, but presumably a little bit more than the others etc etc.

This is exactly why I was pointing out that headcanon trumps everything else, as the logic is meaningless

Read up on Rift mage. To me 'Rift' is a misnomer, as it hardly has anything to do with the rifts. Splitting hairs on that class is like me saying that Templar makes all the sense as a warrior because "demons" and warriors should not be reavers because "uses life" which is technically untrue. A Rift Mage utilizes rifts in only one ability (knowingly, anyways). 99% of the abilities (passive and active) use stray magic (essence of the fade) to do something, whether it is adding damage or increasing duration of status effects.

[SyngeIX]

If you go KE, you can be the party's tank. Helps to open things up a little if you don't always when you have a traditional warrior along for the ride. Story-wise, I'd say it's an even match between RM and KE as to which is more appropriate.

Both make sense for a story perspective. Haven't  tried Necro but I'd say that's probably fine as well. 

[Hermes_tri]

I disagree with Draken, after reading the book of rifts and speaking to Solas and Cole I came to few conclusions. Riffs that opened up all around pretty much changed how magic works and altered few rules. Whereas before mage had to 'coerce' Fade to do his bidding or use essenses of Fade that stick to mages, now you have to learn how to limit powerful surges of energy coming out of the Rifts. This is why only My Trainer survived actually, since all the other mages were careless and consumed by these energies. But to me when it says 'pulling matter out of the Fade' like Stonefist or Meteors, to me it means opening up small rifts in order to do so as ordinary mages are not powerful enough to actually pull matter out of Fade.

[draken-heart]

Well, after reading the comments, I think that, being the leader of the inquisition, Rowan (the new Kayleigh Trevelyan) will be a knight enchanter. that is one down. Now a good build is important, as well as a good party (especially for dragon hunting).

[Kestral]

I just got the specialization and my first perk in KE. I somewhat roleplay, and like the KE for backup with spirit blade when I get surrounded. I also like the clarity for the mana regeneration, veiled riposte for the damage returned, knight protector for the longer barrier, and fade shield to make my barrier stronger.

 

When I get done, I will have perks in winter, inferno, spirit, and KE.

 

winter - winters grasp, winters chill, fade step, winter stillness

inferno - immolate, wildfire, flashpoint, clean burn

spirit - barrier, peaceful aura, transmute magic, dispel, guardian spirit, mind blast, fortifying blast, strength of spirits, rejuvenating barrier

KE - spirit blade, combat clarity, fade cloak, veiled riposte, knight protector, fade shield, disruption field

 

I will use all my regular spells like I have been doing, and spirit blade for when I get in close quarters. Like the arcane mage in DA Origins

Modifié par Kestral, 03 décembre 2014 - 03:22 .

[Carmen_Willow]

I found myself taking first level skills from all the elemental trees. Chain Lightning for AOE, Winter's Grasp for stopping power, Inferno for panic and damage. Barrier for protection.  I've only used Rift Mage as the specialization, but wasn't overly impressed with it, but as an elf, involved with someone who did Fade all the time, it seemed like the right choice.  My human will probably go Knight Enchanter. I also make every other mage take Barrier as well.