400 réponses à ce sujet

[Addai]

No it wasn't. Solas' point in that exchange was to tell Vivienne that he knows more about the magic causing the rifts than Vivienne does. Which is true.

 

And Boost32's point is that Solas is as responsible for the breach and the rifts as Corypheus is. Which is also true, since he stupidly gave Cory that orb.

Er... you just confirmed what I said. Thank you? His point to Vivienne was that she assumes anyone who does not think or speak like those in her circle (pun intended), are ignorant and barbaric. Whatever else may be true, that isn't.

[Xilizhra]

I believe demons that actually make deals, instead of merely suggesting them, are forced to honor them.

The possessed rock wraith in DA2 will try to kill you even if you say that you're just going to get the key.

[teh DRUMPf!!]

His point to Vivienne was that she assumes anyone who does not think or speak like those in her circle (pun intended), are ignorant and barbaric.

 

And Boost32's point was that, knowing what we know now, Vivienne was right to suspect it of him.

 

It does not get much more barbaric than tearing the 'Veil open on purpose.

[Steelcan]

And Boost32's point was that, knowing what we know now, Vivienne was right to suspect it of him.

 

It does not get much more barbaric than tearing the 'Veil open on purpose.

its not really barbaric to do that, ill advised, foolish, and so on, but he's hardly Attila the Hun

[teh DRUMPf!!]

I believe demons that actually make deals, instead of merely suggesting them, are forced to honor them.

 

In regards to this, I think that if a demon is bargaining for its life and/or something that feeds its aspect, then you can deal with confidence (provided you are also okay with what you are giving up). I do think Wryme/Caress would have rewarded whichever companion that turned against Hawke if they "killed" him/her, though.

 

I do not disagree with making deals with demons, just not by the dull-witted. I took the deal that Sophia was offering, though I ultimately dishonored it (lol Sophia... "THIS ONE RAGES! THIS ONE IS BETRAYED!"). If I am playing honestly I also accept the Rock Wraith's offer, but I reject it for meta reasons (XP gain from killing it and the others).

[teh DRUMPf!!]

its not really barbaric to do that, ill advised, foolish, and so on, but he's hardly Attila the Hun

 

I would say it fits the definition of barbarism, since it involves knowingly bringing down monsters on the world.

[Lumix19]

I would say it fits the definition of barbarism, since it involves knowingly bringing down monsters on the world.

We're all monsters. Spirits are like people, keeping them separate only increases your fear of each other.

By the way I disagree about whether Vivienne would triumph outside the Circle. I think the Circle is so precious to her because it has rules that allow her to win. That's why she's jealous of Morrigan, because Morrigan can do what she never could, live outside the Circle and still have the ear of the Empress without much effort at all.

[Boost32]

We're all monsters. Spirits are like people, keeping them separate only increases your fear of each other.
By the way I disagree about whether Vivienne would triumph outside the Circle. I think the Circle is so precious to her because it has rules that allow her to win. That's why she's jealous of Morrigan, because Morrigan can do what she never could, live outside the Circle and still have the ear of the Empress without much effort at all.

How can you disagree when she already succeded outside of the Circle?

[Addai]

And Boost32's point was that, knowing what we know now, Vivienne was right to suspect it of him.

 

It does not get much more barbaric than tearing the 'Veil open on purpose.

Solas did not tear the Veil open on purpose, don't be ridiculous.

 

Her condescending to an elven god about his magical abilities is pretty funny.

[Steelcan]

Solas did not tear the Veil open on purpose, don't be ridiculous.

he still willingly handed an elven artifact of immense power to a darkspawn magister hellbent on making himself a God.....

[Hellion Rex]

he still willingly handed an elven artifact of immense power to a darkspawn magister hellbent on making himself a God.....

Quite. And he probably knew that the orb would explode, killing all those people as it activated.

[thesuperdarkone2]

How can you disagree when she already succeded outside of the Circle?

Because she slept with an influential duke.

[Boost32]

Because she slept with an influential duke.

It helped her, but it was not because of this she succeeded. She became the Emperial Enchanter for her own merits, made a jester position become a powerful one and made conection and a network that allowed her to became a candidate to the Sunburst Throne and she can be elected. If this is not succeeding I dont know what sucess means.

[congokong]

The possessed rock wraith in DA2 will try to kill you even if you say that you're just going to get the key.

I've heard that is true. Never agreed to solely take just the key so I don't know what happens exactly. What's the demon's reason for attacking over the key?

 

The lore is contradicting then when you have examples like the desire demon who possessed Connor that honors its deal.

[In Exile]

And Boost32's point was that, knowing what we know now, Vivienne was right to suspect it of him.

It does not get much more barbaric than tearing the 'Veil open on purpose.

She's not even remotely right. Solas may well use his tremendous power and knowledge for ill in the end but that's not her concern. Vivienne isn't worth Solas is an evlen god-mage who created the Veil and accidentally set Corypheus on his path. It's that without his having been in the Circle he'd be a danger to himself and the rest of the Inquisition. She's completely off the mark.

[In Exile]

It helped her, but it was not because of this she succeeded. She became the Emperial Enchanter for her own merits, made a jester position become a powerful one and made conection and a network that allowed her to became a candidate to the Sunburst Throne and she can be elected. If this is not succeeding I dont know what sucess means.

She was still a court jester. People keep taking Vivienne's word for how important she is supposed to be in Orlais. Don't.

She became Divine because the Chantry wanted to coddle to the Inquisition and she was the only woman who'd fit the Inquisitor's very conservative politics (which is what you need to elect her).

[Steelcan]

She was still a court jester. People keep taking Vivienne's word for how important she is supposed to be in Orlais. Don't.
 

She seems able to weild a considerable amount of influence, do you have anything from other members of the court that suggests she was still seen as a jester?

[TheTurtle]

She was still a court jester. People keep taking Vivienne's word for how important she is supposed to be in Orlais. Don't.

It's not just Vivienne's word though. Leliana says the same thing during Wicked Eyes and Wicked Hearts.

[Boost32]

She was still a court jester. People keep taking Vivienne's word for how important she is supposed to be in Orlais. Don't.
She became Divine because the Chantry wanted to coddle to the Inquisition and she was the only woman who'd fit the Inquisitor's very conservative politics (which is what you need to elect her).

With the exception she wasnt, every pleace you will read how she changed it from court jester to political power, Vivienne herself never say this.
She become a candidate because of her influence, just hear Josephine after speaking with Bastien son, some people dont even know she was a candidate until she became Divine in their game.

[ThePhoenixKing]

It's pretty useless to argue over whether Solas or Vivienne is better, because they both suck. One's a hypocritical god of ^@$%-ups who unleashed this crisis to begin with, and the other is a condescending fascist who's willing to kill any dissenters while she enjoys a life of luxury outside of the confines of the Circle she'd reimpose on everyone else. It's like asking if you'd prefer to get infected with dysentary or the Ebola virus. Either way, there's a lot of putrid %*#@ in your future.

[thetinyevil]

She seems able to weild a considerable amount of influence, do you have anything from other members of the court that suggests she was still seen as a jester?

When you are at her party in her estate the way the people talk about her sounds more like what one would say about a trained animal you dress up and have dances on command. I think her influence is more in her head then in reality,

[Boost32]

When you are at her party in her estate the way the people talk about her sounds more like what one would say about a trained animal you dress up and have dances on command. I think her influence is more in her head then in reality,

Yeah thats why she can become Divine without even being one of the first candidates considered, why people nicknamed her "Madam de Fer", etc...
Its all in her head.

[thetinyevil]

Yeah thats why she can become Divine without even being one of the first candidates considered, why people nicknamed her "Madam de Fer", etc...
Its all in her head.

That is due to the Inquisition not her. Is she made Divine if you don't recruit her? No. It has nothing to do with HER power and influence and has everything to do with the Inquisition's power and influence. . 

[thetinyevil]

One more fact why she was allowed to think she had so much power at court was because of WHO she was sleeping with. The head of the Council of Heralds. Really the only person higher she could have used to get power would have been Celene and since the Empress seem to have a think for elves she settled for the next highest ranking noble she could get her legs around.

[Boost32]

That is due to the Inquisition not her. Is she made Divine if you don't recruit her? No. It has nothing to do with HER power and influence and has everything to do with the Inquisition's power and influence. .

Ofc she needs e Inquisiton's power and influence, but if she didnt had her own she would never be considered. She is a proeminent member of the orlesian court, have the ears of the Empress and the Gislhain family, she has connections and fame across the Empire, without her influence she would never reach the Sunburst Throne, even if she was a member of the Inquisition.