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[Archonix]

Ugh. Absolutely not. 

I agree that as a character she's well written, but her personality is so at odds with my own, and her snide remarks and arrogant, self-serving attitude completely destroyed any attempt for me or my Inquisitor to get along with her. 

[Bleachrude]

She is absolutely repulsive as a human being. A pretentious **** who has a very limited, impaired, and dangerous view of magic. She is unable to even comprehend criticisms of either the circle of magi or the chantry. She barely understands the fade of spirits and demons. Her obvious "game" playing is just as repugnant in her as it is with the rest of the 'nobs in Orlais. 

 

 

 

Wait what?

 

Unlike Anders, Vivienne actually acknowledges the good and the bad about the circle. Solas and Anders for that matter live in a black and white world and seem shocked that people inherently distrust magic.

 

The Qun for example distrusted magic long before they ran into Tevinter and people seem to ignore the people of Thedas live with a magrocacy whose stated goal is to enslave everyone not a mage and they certainly aren't going to be living as nicely as circle mages do.

 

I mean, we have Dorian actually arguing that slavery isn't that bad in Tevinter SLAVERY and yet he's a well loved companion? What the hell is wrong with you people?

[Xilizhra]

Wait what?

 

Unlike Anders, Vivienne actually acknowledges the good and the bad about the circle. Solas and Anders for that matter live in a black and white world and seem shocked that people inherently distrust magic.

 

The Qun for example distrusted magic long before they ran into Tevinter and people seem to ignore the people of Thedas live with a magrocacy whose stated goal is to enslave everyone not a mage and they certainly aren't going to be living as nicely as circle mages do.

 

I mean, we have Dorian actually arguing that slavery isn't that bad in Tevinter SLAVERY and yet he's a well loved companion? What the hell is wrong with you people?

Dorian's argument (which isn't very spirited) is virtual identical to the qunari characters' argument about "life sucks everywhere." Which is also the rallying cry of a lot of templar supporters, so I'd think you'd understand each other.

[The Loyal Nub]

I mean, we have Dorian actually arguing that slavery isn't that bad in Tevinter SLAVERY and yet he's a well loved companion? What the hell is wrong with you people?

 

Oh dear...looks like Cassandra and Varric might be the only companions I end up being fond of at the end of all this. Do we get the option to punch Dorian in the face when he makes this argument? It is a punchable offense.

[Ryriena]

Oh dear...looks like Cassandra and Varric might be the only companions I end up being fond of at the end of all this. Do we get the option to punch Dorian in the face when he makes this argument? It is a punchable offense.

He does not try to justify it he overtly up front with the fact that some slaves were treated horribly while others were treated well.

[The Loyal Nub]

He does not try to justify it he overtly up front with the fact that some slaves were treated horribly while others were treated well.

 

Good cause if he does that's the last mission he tags along on! 

[Ryriena]

Good cause if he does that's the last mission he tags along on!

But he save then he just ones of those that acknowledge that yes Slavery is bad however he Also states some slaves were treated better than others which is true for Rome back in the day. Like in Pomipi they had slaves being treated like family in some houses at the time. Heck during the eruption of the volcano in the area their were several slaves that stayed with the familes they served after they were set freed

[Bayonet Hipshot]

Vivienne is a condescending cold hearted b***h who likes her self imposed mental cage as a mask of her fears and insecurities. 

 

Take her out with Cole and hear their banter to see what I mean...

[The Loyal Nub]

But he save then he just ones of those that acknowledge that yes Slavery is bad however he Also states some slaves were treated better than others which is true for Rome back in the day. Like in Pomipi they had slaves being treated like family in some houses at the time. Heck during the eruption of the volcano in the area their were several slaves that stayed with the familes they served after they were set freed

 

You're not selling me on Dorian, lol. Hope he an I never have this discussion. His views sound pretty bad "well some were treated well..." Yeah ****** off Dorian, you ******!

[Ryriena]

Vivienne is a condescending cold hearted b***h who likes her self imposed mental cage as a mask of her fears and insecurities.

Take her out with Cole and hear their banter to see what I mean...

Yup I have taken her out with Cole and wanted to slap her for insulting him so often.

[Ryriena]

You're not selling me on Dorian, lol. Hope he an I never have this discussion. His views sound pretty bad "well some were treated well..." Yeah ****** off Dorian, you ******!

He is stating facts is all of what some people view it like in the Roman Empire back in the day we have to realize slaverly was was common back then so he just has that veiw point on things. He was not stating everything was right because some slaves were treated well and some weren't he was just stating facts.

[Maclimes]

Just checking in as another supporter of "Brilliantly written and acted, but hate her personally". It's a testament to the skill of the writers and voice actor that I could hate her so much.

[abearzi]

Wait what?

 

Unlike Anders, Vivienne actually acknowledges the good and the bad about the circle. Solas and Anders for that matter live in a black and white world and seem shocked that people inherently distrust magic.

 

The Qun for example distrusted magic long before they ran into Tevinter and people seem to ignore the people of Thedas live with a magrocacy whose stated goal is to enslave everyone not a mage and they certainly aren't going to be living as nicely as circle mages do.

 

I mean, we have Dorian actually arguing that slavery isn't that bad in Tevinter SLAVERY and yet he's a well loved companion? What the hell is wrong with you people?

 

Charming non sequitor, but slavery is entirely irrelevant to Vivienne's character.

 

Vivienne refuses to even entertain the notion that there are spirits which might not be harmful, and she has never even bothered to investigate. She just parrots the narrow teaching of the circle. She also has used none of her hoarded power and station to actually promote change within the circle to stop it from being a prison, with abusive jailers who are largely brainwashed into mistrusting and abusing their charges. She is content to advance her personal standing, let the rampant abuse of mages within the circle continue, and continue to let magical knowledge stagnate, while she plays her insipid political game.

 

And apart from blood magic, the Tevinter Circles are at least modeled after proper academies, which promote learning and magical exploration. Even in DA2 Feynriel knew he had to either go to Tevinter or to the Dalish since the southern circles were useless in learning about even slightly unusual forms of magic. The Spirit of Valor in the Mage Origins in DAO, Justice in DAO:A, the spirit mimicking Justinia, etc. all demonstrably prove that Vivienne's view of the fade is ignorant and potentially dangerous. Because as well all know, the best way to protect against something which is potentially dangerous is to have as little knowledge about it as possible, and to never seek more. Wait, no...I meant worst.

[Bayonet Hipshot]

Charming non sequitor, but slavery is entirely irrelevant to Vivienne's character.

 

Vivienne refuses to even entertain the notion that there are spirits which might not be harmful, and she has never even bothered to investigate. She just parrots the narrow teaching of the circle. She also has used none of her hoarded power and station to actually promote change within the circle to stop it from being a prison, with abusive jailers who are largely brainwashed into mistrusting and abusing their charges. She is content to advance her personal standing, let the rampant abuse of mages within the circle continue, and continue to let magical knowledge stagnate, while she plays her insipid political game.

 

And apart from blood magic, the Tevinter Circles are at least modeled after proper academies, which promote learning and magical exploration. Even in DA2 Feynriel knew he had to either go to Tevinter or to the Dalish since the southern circles were useless in learning about even slightly unusual forms of magic. The Spirit of Valor in the Mage Origins in DAO, Justice in DAO:A, the spirit mimicking Justinia, etc. all demonstrably prove that Vivienne's view of the fade is ignorant and potentially dangerous. Because as well all know, the best way to protect against something which is potentially dangerous is to have as little knowledge about it as possible, and to never seek more. Wait, no...I meant worst.

 

Indeed. Vivienne is the stereotypical indoctrinated Circle Mage. Conversations between her and Solas as well as her and Cole reveals so much of her flaws. 

[Milan92]

I don't think anyone has ever claimed that Vivienne has no flaws.

[Akkos]

I wonder when they will close the wrecked thread.

[Cantina]

Oh don't get me wrong, Viv is a well written. I just don't like her as a character. 

 

aAt some point during the conversations Viv says something to the effect of her and a few circle mages were taken to some ball to be entertainment for the nobles.

 

I face palmed So....your OK with being treated like some sort of circus elephant?.

.

Watching Viv and Solas have a conversation about Cole showed me just how ignorant Viv is. She believes whatever the Chantry tells her and accepts nothing less.

 

BTW...

 

What happens if you tell Viv not to join the Inquisition? Anyone know?

[Goldarmy]

Indeed. Vivienne is the stereotypical indoctrinated Circle Mage. Conversations between her and Solas as well as her and Cole reveals so much of her flaws. 

She is worse than an indocrinated Circle Mage, because at least indocrinated mage is actual believer. Vivienne just parrots what people want to hear to advance her position.

[Bayonet Hipshot]

She is worse than an indocrinated Circle Mage, because at least indocrinated mage is actual believer. Vivienne just parrots what people want to hear to advance her position.

 

You know, with her ridiculous fashion taste...I can actually see Vivienne as a parrot...a horned parrot with an ice-cold heart...

[King Dragonlord]

He is stating facts is all of what some people view it like in the Roman Empire back in the day we have to realize slaverly was was common back then so he just has that veiw point on things. He was not stating everything was right because some slaves were treated well and some weren't he was just stating facts.

 

I think some of the reaction is more about how slavery was in our own recent history (and in some places still). The slavery that was finally abolished in the 19th century was a more horrible institution than the indentured servitude many ancient civilizations had. 

[Ryriena]

I think some of the reaction is more about how slavery was in our own recent history (and in some places still). The slavery that was finally abolished in the 19th century was a more horrible institution than the indentured servitude many ancient civilizations had.

Agreed, as I believe his country was based off of the Roman Empire I use somthing like that in my exmaple. Anyway I was not actually downgrading the events in the 19th century, and I wouldn't call what the Roman Empire had as indentured servitude since it was still consider slaverly and many were bought from Slavers. They were just treated a lot better than those in the 19th century or for that matter during the civil war.

[Bleachrude]

*LOL* BSN is truly a "mages can do no wrong" method.

 

So let me see if I got this right...

 

People are actually arguing that Tevinter is NOT that bad compared tot he circles? The same Tevinter where they put elves in ACTUAL cages (not the metaphorical cage of the circles? The actual Tevinter where "blood magic is frowned upon but pretty much is openly practised"

 

THAT TEVINTER?

 

As for her bias against spirits, given that spirits and demons are the same thing and worse you can pervert a spirit into a demon as shown in both DA2, and DAI, how exactly is Viv wrong that the best policy is NOT TO HAVE anything to do with them....

 

I actually find her disucssion with Solas fascinating  and apparently a lot of people ignore an aspect of it. If Viv had NTO been a amge, she herself acknowledges that she would never have been invited into court in the first place. There's a weird assumption that Viv doesn't acknowledge the benefits of being a mage has given her but the game EXPLICITLY tells you that Viv herself recognizes this.

[abearzi]

People are actually arguing that Tevinter is NOT that bad compared tot he circles? The same Tevinter where they put elves in ACTUAL cages (not the metaphorical cage of the circles? The actual Tevinter where "blood magic is frowned upon but pretty much is openly practised"

 

THAT TEVINTER?

 

As for her bias against spirits, given that spirits and demons are the same thing and worse you can pervert a spirit into a demon as shown in both DA2, and DAI, how exactly is Viv wrong that the best policy is NOT TO HAVE anything to do with them....

 

While I won't speak for others, I personally knowledge that there are aspects of Tevinter which are better than either of the southern nations. That they promote the exploration of magic and seek to understand more esoteric forms of magic (such as Feynriel's Dreamer powers). The slavery aspect is deplorable, but given the semi-historical context (feudal Europe), the lower classes are scarcely going to be far different in many cases. A peasant in Orlais is going to live and die a the whim of their local inbred lord just as a slave would at the hands of their Blood-magicing owner. In either case it would be entirely up to luck whether a slave were owned by a benevolent master, or the peasant were living on the land of a kind vassal to the Empress.

 

As to having knowledge about spirits and demons, by deliberately remaining and indeed enforcing ignorance about them (as per the southern Circles) it makes the people far more vulnerable to their possessions and more ill equipped to deal with them. All mages face the reality of Demons being a part of their life, as do non-dwarves who dream (ie; everyone). So having more knowledge on how to differentiate between those spirits which are more altruistic or at least non-hostile could prevent more cases of tears in the veil or possession. What Vivienne aggressively advocates is that all people and all mages in particular have no way to make these distinctions and that they remain forever ignorant of demonology/spiritology. As Justice in DAO:A demonstrated, there are indeed spirits which want to help the mortal world, as did the Spirit of Valor. 

 

So simply ignoring them and hoping they go away is both impossible and stupid.

[Former_Fiend]

Wait what?

 

Unlike Anders, Vivienne actually acknowledges the good and the bad about the circle. Solas and Anders for that matter live in a black and white world and seem shocked that people inherently distrust magic.

 

The Qun for example distrusted magic long before they ran into Tevinter and people seem to ignore the people of Thedas live with a magrocacy whose stated goal is to enslave everyone not a mage and they certainly aren't going to be living as nicely as circle mages do.

 

I mean, we have Dorian actually arguing that slavery isn't that bad in Tevinter SLAVERY and yet he's a well loved companion? What the hell is wrong with you people?

 

You sir give Tevinter too much credit; they enslave mages, too.S

 

Still, I agree with the over all point.

[mrs_anomaly]

Nope. Nothing can make me like her. I am of noble birth which means something in Thedas and particularly where she comes from and she deigns to impart her pearls before me, the swine. Yay she's intelligent! So every time I take her with me she insults the entire team. I don't want to sleep with her so my patience wears thin on the perpetual condescension.