HEH
I was waiting for the Tevinter defence force. Apparently, we've come to the point that "Tevinter isn't tHat bad" even though every thing contradicts this...hell, Feyneriel, a half-elf dreamer that grew up in Kirkwall (not exactly the bastion of tolerance) mentions that Tevinter freaks him out to their attitude.
Yet apparently medieval serfdom is no worse than slavery?
Never change BSN.
HEH
I was waiting for the Tevinter defence force. Apparently, we've come to the point that "Tevinter isn't tHat bad" even though every thing contradicts this...hell, Feyneriel, a half-elf dreamer that grew up in Kirkwall (not exactly the bastion of tolerance) mentions that Tevinter freaks him out to their attitude.
Yet apparently medieval serfdom is no worse than slavery?
Never change BSN.
Maybe brush up on some history before you assume that serfdom was all candies and roses, and slaves in all societies were equally mistreated. And there is a world of difference between "Tevinter isn't tHat bad" and "Tevinter isn't all bad." Slavery = Bad, Academic Advancement = Good. I can try to phrase it more simplistically if you need.
*LOL*
You do realize I actually do know th difference right? As a black male I always find it funny when people try to say serfdom was as bad as slavery. NO, NO it isn't. Keep in mind that the game themselves seem to imply that slavery is way worse than serfdom.
As an aside, academic advancement I have no problem with but there doesn't actually seem to be any structure to said advancement...or what I would say "safety restrictions". I get the impression that magical research in Thedas is more akin to what Wilhelm does that what the quanari practise. Aka, "no thoughts as to what might happen to potential innocents".
I have a suspicion that research into Gatalok for example is conducted in such a manner that any fallout would only affect the direct people involved
*LOL*
You do realize I actually do know th difference right? As a black male I always find it funny when people try to say serfdom was as bad as slavery. NO, NO it isn't. Keep in mind that the game themselves seem to imply that slavery is way worse than serfdom.
As an aside, academic advancement I have no problem with but there doesn't actually seem to be any structure to said advancement...or what I would say "safety restrictions". I get the impression that magical research in Thedas is more akin to what Wilhelm does that what the quanari practise. Aka, "no thoughts as to what might happen to potential innocents".
I have a suspicion that research into Gatalok for example is conducted in such a manner that any fallout would only affect the direct people involved
And again willfully ignoring significant salient points. Slavery has not been identical across all societies which engaged in it. Yes, the version which the United States practiced was amongst the most deplorable that we are aware of. However, in both Rome and Greece it was often less barbaric, depending on which period is being looked at. And no, it is actually not apparent that you know the difference, simply playing the race card does not automatically impart knowledge. From that post it is in fact even less apparent that you know the difference.
So to be as clear as I possibly can; the slavery which was practiced in the United States was undoubtedly worse than medieval serfdom, however the same serfdom was undoubtedly worse than the slavery practiced by other slave-owning societies from history.
Not exactly sure how a complaint about Vivienne's character turned into a topic about slavery but whatever internet.
Vivienne is one of those characters where, she is pretty much a represtitive of "The Game" While everyone else isn't.
From talking to her, there where very few cases of abuse, and the Circle she grew up in, was much different than the others, and she even explains this when you ask her about her life in the circle and if the mages where right in rebelling.
She is NOT for abuse of Templars, she is NOT for being locked in a tower for your whole life.
However the timing of the Mage rebelion was bad, it was done after Kirkwall killed so many people and a second attempt on the Divines life. Which from the outside looked like, the mages where supporting such acts. Where yes in the case they wheren't but it appeared that way.
Also I do belave the game doesn't do a good job of showing the dangers of having magic powers. Other than the I can blow lots of people up and set them all on fire, sort of thing.
I can't stand Vivienne. She has spent almost the entirety of my game in her part of Haven and Skyhold, untalked to and alone. The Skyhold thing is actually really annoying, she's standing in the way of my balcony. Damn it Vivienne, is there anything you can't ruin?
Throughout the DA games, I have never met a companion I loathe as much as Vivienne. Every time she speaks, it’s like nails on a chalk board. Why? She has the attitude of believing she is the best mage and knows exactly what is best for mages. But it’s not just that, it’s the fact that Vivienne believes everything she says is right and what you say is wrong. Hell, the way she treats poor Cole sickens me.
She is great isn't she. She's unashamedly honest and a charming wit. But what do I know? I became rather socially broken a long time ago and realized I really like charmingly impolite people. Giving someone with an ego and a sarcastic remark over plain white bread goody two shoes any day. If it's not clear already I'm not a big fan of Cole.
Also Vivienne is the reason one never turns on hide helmets.
I haven't liked her sense I heard she was in the game.
#hatersgonhate
Yeah... you know what was the last straw for me? That scene where she brings her lover's family to Skyhold, shows them around like it's her palace, and when they ask to meet you, she's like - oh, sure, let me just wave her, and she'll come running! Most annoying thing is you do come running (wtf Vivienne? do you think I am your maid or something?) and you can't even tell them off. You're all like "oooh, nice to meet you", should I maybe fetch you a pair of slippers now?!
Sheesh, ranting, sorry! But that scene made me so mad 
The irony that this thread was opened with an Anders avatar!
Anyone else bugged that she stops/kills the jerk noble at her salon ? I actually wanted to step outside to settle it "honorably"
Slightly off-topic, but is it possible to get Vivienne to leave the Inquisition? There's absolutely nothing about her that I don't hate, but my first inquisitor tried to be her friend for role-playing purposes, and was somewhat successful even though he supported mage freedom. I made the mistake of recruiting her again on my second playthrough just to have my hot-headed inquisitior with zero tolerance for insincere bullshit be an absolute dick to her and kick her out, but I haven't had the option to do so yet, despite the fact that she has disapproved of basically everything he's done and said. Am I stuck with a character neither me nor my inquisitor can stand polluting the air of Skyhold, or do I just need to keep playing and wait for the disapproval to pile up?
*LOL*
You do realize I actually do know th difference right? As a black male I always find it funny when people try to say serfdom was as bad as slavery. NO, NO it isn't. Keep in mind that the game themselves seem to imply that slavery is way worse than serfdom.
As an aside, academic advancement I have no problem with but there doesn't actually seem to be any structure to said advancement...or what I would say "safety restrictions". I get the impression that magical research in Thedas is more akin to what Wilhelm does that what the quanari practise. Aka, "no thoughts as to what might happen to potential innocents".
I have a suspicion that research into Gatalok for example is conducted in such a manner that any fallout would only affect the direct people involved
You know, I agree with most of what you said but how does being black make you an expert on slavery? Were you a slave? Are you 150 years old? Unless you're unusually old for this fandom I doubt you've even met anyone who lived as a slave unless they were from outside the states. Now sure maybe its motivated you to do the research but you'd be accessing the same archives as any other historian.
I mean thats kind of like me saying I know more about living as a noble in the Elizabethan era because some of my ancestors were among them (I'm sure pretty much any white person and probably a surprising number of black people can claim that.)
Using this Thread to debate about slavery will go poorly.
I can't stand Vivienne. She doesn't care about mages, she only cares about herself and keeping her power nothing more.
No she's just everything bad a person can be, just a horrible person all round, and with zero clue or care about others plights.
If i were my Inquisitor and she was with me in the hissing wastes...........lets just say when i returned to skyhold she wouldn't be with me.
I like Vivienne more than Morrigan. Vivienne was always nice to my Lavellan, and didn't ****** her out over who she favored. Vivienne didn't require my Lavellan to have a mountain of patience and fawn over her just to eventually reveal the wounded woman underneath. Vivienne kept her cool when Sera tried to provoke her over and over. About the only thing that bothered me about Vivienne was the way she talked to Blackwall. I don't know if it's ever explained why she hates him so, but it makes him come whimpering back like a kicked puppy (which also grates on my nerves).
On sunburst throne, Vivienne will crush all of Southern thedas under her pearl encrusted heel.
Like her or not, she is an excellent, well written character. There isn't much to debate about what she says on the mage issue other than that she is pretty spot on, even you don't want to agree with her. And I find her banter very amusing, particularly in how she handles Sera. However, I admit she can be foul with Blackwall, and she has been conditioned from a young age to fear and distrust demons, so I understand her stance on Cole.
(I'd love to have Vivienne, Morrigan and Shale in one party, good god Thedas would explore from the amount of snark)
Before the game came out, I thought she'd be a sort of Wynne, only Orlesian and thus slightly snobby and very stylish, experience restricted by her Circle training, but open to new ideas, like Dorian was restricted by Tevinter ideals but open to new things. -- OH, and like many others, I thought she'd be a romance option for male characters.
It quickly became apparent that she would see little but the inside of Haven's chantry/Skyhold as she's intolerant of my favorite companion (Cole), because I couldn't take her anywhere without hearing her sniping at him. Creature this, demon that, blahblahblah. I had Solas and Dorian to be my mages anyway. While I like the idea of her character being mage nobility, having to leave her at home all the time made her boring to me.
Heh, when I found out Vivienne was a possible Divine, I did everything I could to keep that from happening--wiki spoilers, everything.
However, I do like Indira Varma, Vivienne's voice actress, who I think performed wonderfully.
She's just to impersonal and emotionally distant for me. Besides right after her personal quest she always has the Iron Lady persona on 24/7.
I don't know if it's ever explained why she hates him so, but it makes him come whimpering back like a kicked puppy (which also grates on my nerves).
I think it is just a visceral dislike. Blackwall is a "common man" sort of guy whereas Vivienne is closer to social-elite.
In the end, she was kind of right about him though (LOL).
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