176 réponses à ce sujet

[RenAdaar]

I honestly don't think drinking from the well is going to have to bad of a consequence. And if it does oh well I have a save file right before that choice. 

[King Dragonlord]

Well, so this topic has diverged a bit.

Yes Morrigan has a superiority complex, however lets look at the world she grew up in.

Mages for the most part are kept as Slaves with an ax over their neck, to be an independent mage outside the system means death, and possibly torture. She grew up alone with her mother a very powerful mage who has more than likely protected her daughter with extreme violence. Morrigan grew up learning the type of magic her mother used. However Morrigan realized from an early point in her life that her mother was always lying to her. So when the Warden recruits her she is apprehensive and afraid, however she covers this up with sass and sarcasm. She actually has never lied, and she has always been brutally honest. Which is a sign that she has ****** poor social skills, although if you play your cards right she can be very sweet and tender.

In the situation with the well, yes she is correct she is the best qualified and ironically so. However, her social skills as usual are lacking. Sadly this time around we lack the ability to get close enough to see this in her.

The point being unless you are playing Dalish you really have no reason to disagree with her unless you are playing the power hungry 'evil' character. If you are Dalish then you are justified in your apprehension, however she is still correct.

I'm not saying Morrigan has no reason to be the way she is but however it happened, however justified it was, Morrigan is this person and this person is exactly and perfectly wrong to give this knowledge to if a Dalish Inquisitor wants to hold onto any hope of reclaiming that lore for their people. 

[Storvacker]

None of the above posts change the fact that its better in the hands of a well meaning elfquisitor. Even if the elf only gets 1%* of what Morrigan would get from the experience, thats still infinitely more than the Dalish would get from Morrigan, and the Dalish indisputably deserve access to that lore more than Morrigan does. Its a farce that any other position should even be considered. Maybe if you just plain hate the Dalish I could see you saying "Sure Morrigan, knock yourself out."

 

And yes there's a cost to it but any good Elfquisitor would be willing to take that cost for the chance to reclaim some of their lost heritage. 

 

*And I think it would be a lot more than 1%. I'm sure the Elfquisitor could return to his/her clan or to any other Dalish clan and get guidance from their scholars to make the most of it. 

Sure, that's a very valid point to make that maybe the Elfquisitor can help the elves more with that information. However, your first post was not stating that. It was an offended rant about how Morrigan had the audacity to suggest that she was more qualified than your Dalish Inquisitor to receive the information. So sure, none of the above posts change that fact, but that's not the fact they were disputing.

[King Dragonlord]

Sure, that's a very valid point to make that maybe the Elfquisitor can help the elves more with that information. However, your first post was not stating that. It was an offended rant about how Morrigan had the audacity to suggest that she was more qualified than your Dalish Inquisitor to receive the information. So sure, none of the above posts change that fact, but that's not the fact they were disputing.

 

But that does establish her audacity. 

[gothicshark]

I'm not saying Morrigan has no reason to be the way she is but however it happened, however justified it was, Morrigan is this person and this person is exactly and perfectly wrong to give this knowledge to if a Dalish Inquisitor wants to hold onto any hope of reclaiming that lore for their people.

Odds are Morrigan is more likely to give the Dalish their history and lore than even an Elf Inquisitor. In Thedas Elves have almost the same lifespans as Humans and Dwarfs, however some mages can live for centuries. Because of Morrigan's unique family, and the implication of this she might live long enough to impart all the Elvhenan lore, I mean she is bound in more than one way to Mythal the primary god of the Elves. Once she has the well she is bound the the will of Mythal.

Meanwhile the Elf inquisitor will live to 90 years of age if super lucky, while constantly working as Inquisitor. He/She will never be able to fully dedicate his/her life to the study of the well. So we are talking less than 1% of the information of the well will ever be accessed.

[Storvacker]

But that does establish her audacity. 

How? She doesn't say she can help the elves better, or use it better. She states that she is the most qualified to receive the information. She clearly is. She might not use it best, but she's still the most qualified and will receive more information than the Inquisitor would. This is her main concern with the well. She argues this because she hopes the Inquisitor might share that viewpoint.

[WhatGoesHere]

I'm not saying Morrigan has no reason to be the way she is but however it happened, however justified it was, Morrigan is this person and this person is exactly and perfectly wrong to give this knowledge to if a Dalish Inquisitor wants to hold onto any hope of reclaiming that lore for their people. 

 

well...have you continued playing past that scene?

 

Spoiler

for the elf inquisitor, after the big reveal with flemeth (mythal), why would he/she continue to be offended that morrigan wishes to drink from the well? flemeth basically tells morrigan that her quest to preserve the ancient magics is not of her own will, but because of how flemeth has raised her for that very quest. morrigan partaking in the well may as well be mythal's will. would the elf inquisitor not respect that? also why would the elf inquisitor continue to believe that they are more fit for the well over mythal's daughter?

[t0mm06]

Why are the dalish even qualified to have this knowledge? They are hardly Paladins of historical knowledge, they are bias in the history they keep, always acting like elves were this perfect society, when really they were no better then tevinter. they shun others who would actually take the risks to restore and research these historical artefacts (merill), they sit around regretting what was and what could have been longing for 'better days' .
What evidence do we have that the dalish would do anything with this knowlege other then be smug in knowing it? As far as I can see they would just sit in their aravells doing nothing with it. At least Morrison would use this knowlege. That's why she is more qualified.

[Addai]

None of the above posts change the fact that its better in the hands of a well meaning elfquisitor. Even if the elf only gets 1%* of what Morrigan would get from the experience, thats still infinitely more than the Dalish would get from Morrigan, and the Dalish indisputably deserve access to that lore more than Morrigan does. Its a farce that any other position should even be considered. Maybe if you just plain hate the Dalish I could see you saying "Sure Morrigan, knock yourself out."
 
And yes there's a cost to it but any good Elfquisitor would be willing to take that cost for the chance to reclaim some of their lost heritage. 
 
*And I think it would be a lot more than 1%. I'm sure the Elfquisitor could return to his/her clan or to any other Dalish clan and get guidance from their scholars to make the most of it.

Elven pride isn't everything. That kind of thinking leads to ruin.

The knowledge isn't really lost, which is why Solas is apathetic about Morrigan taking the dip. He's more concerned about reclaiming the power in there than the secrets.

[Roamingmachine]

Why are the dalish even qualified to have this knowledge? They are hardly Paladins of historical knowledge, they are bias in the history they keep, always acting like elves were this perfect society, when really they were no better then tevinter. they shun others who would actually take the risks to restore and research these historical artefacts (merill), they sit around regretting what was and what could have been longing for 'better days' .
What evidence do we have that the dalish would do anything with this knowlege other then be smug in knowing it? As far as I can see they would just sit in their aravells doing nothing with it. At least Morrison would use this knowlege. That's why she is more qualified.

 

They have done what they could with the little knowledge they have. And ultimately, it's THEIR history. That alone qualifies them to call dibs on the well. Thats all i will say on that.

 

I would have been disappointed if Morrigan wouldn't have made a play for the well. Ancient magic turns her in to a magpie that has spotted a shiny and it has allways been this way. And indeed, from a pure magical perspective she is the most qualified person on thedas to deal with the well. But the well is much, much more than just magic. It is a thousand lifetimes of elven life and that is why my inquisitor drank from the well. Solas made the same mistake in thinking that the inquisitor was after power, but it was knowledge alone that drove her. And the price? That is no price for a faithful.

The whole thing is delightfully written overall with its delicious hook if Morri drinks from the well

[Ieldra]

Solas is upset If anyone drinks from the well, as far as I know. Morrigan has always been the one who seeks power so her reaction wasn't strange to me at all.

I found it strange that she was willing to accept the price even after my mage Inquisitor told her the well would put a geas on her controlled by the collective consciousness of the priests who put their minds into the well. She even notices that the well feels hungry.

I think the only type of person who would drink from the well without misgivings was an elf with a great deal of faith in Mythal.

I wonder: is it possible to make it so that nobody drinks from the well?

[King Dragonlord]

Elven pride isn't everything. That kind of thinking leads to ruin.

The knowledge isn't really lost, which is why Solas is apathetic about Morrigan taking the dip. He's more concerned about reclaiming the power in there than the secrets.

Its leagues more important than the purposes of one young woman acting unilaterally in a way that would deny an entire race. And this isn't pride anyway, this is recovering even a precious little of all that has been taken from them. I can't believe you'd dismiss that as mere pride. 

[King Dragonlord]

Odds are Morrigan is more likely to give the Dalish their history and lore than even an Elf Inquisitor. In Thedas Elves have almost the same lifespans as Humans and Dwarfs, however some mages can live for centuries. Because of Morrigan's unique family, and the implication of this she might live long enough to impart all the Elvhenan lore, I mean she is bound in more than one way to Mythal the primary god of the Elves. Once she has the well she is bound the the will of Mythal.

Meanwhile the Elf inquisitor will live to 90 years of age if super lucky, while constantly working as Inquisitor. He/She will never be able to fully dedicate his/her life to the study of the well. So we are talking less than 1% of the information of the well will ever be accessed.

 

Actually the Elves have out done Flemeth in the immortality department. Zathrian lived for centuries without once having to possess a new body. My Elfquisitor was a Mage and was the Keeper's first. And her being bound to Flemeth does nothing to inspire the hope that it would be shared. Flemeth never shared herself. The Elfquisitor at least has that desire.

[LobselVith8]

I mainly meant

Spoiler

the fact that Solas is the Dread Wolf. The fact that the elven gods are alive. Huge implications there.

Spoiler

I find the implications intriguing, and I hope we learn more. I'm also anxious to find out how Solas intends to help the People, if the protagonist will discover he's the Dread Wolf of legend, and what truths he can reveal about Elvhenan.

[Milan92]

 

I wonder: is it possible to make it so that nobody drinks from the well?

 

Sadly no. I was excited when that one elf wanted to destroy the well. 

 

But then Morrigan killed him.

[Estelindis]

Yeah so I drank form the well it was either me or morrigan so I chose me. pluse as long as I beat the elder one it doesn't really matter what happens to me after. I'll probably disappear with out a trace anyway lol

It's sad when the consistent disappearance of the protagonists starts to make players get less invested in their characters.    It's a good sign that Hawke showed up again in DA:I, but the fact that she can die (seemingly) at the end of that plot seems to resign her to the future irrelevance of the Warden.  I feel like this is the eventual fate of our Inquisitor too, but I hope not.

[LobselVith8]

However, Merrill's clan didn't know what it was when they first encountered it and Morrigan clearly knew more of its lore than she did. She had the ability to interpret Ariane's clan's information better than the clan itself. She also could get one to work while Merrill couldn't. Regardless of what knowledge the Dalish do know, it's clear Morrigan knows more, which is the point I have been trying to make.

Morrigan used an existing Eluvian built over a millennia ago; Merrill was building one from her research into the lore and information she extrapolated from the shard. Apples and oranges. But they're two of my favorite characters and romances. Highly intelligent, dedicated, talented characters.

[King Dragonlord]

It's sad when the consistent disappearance of the protagonists starts to make players get less invested in their characters. It's a good sign that Hawke showed up again in DA:I, but the fact that she can die (seemingly) at the end of that plot seems to resign her to the future irrelevance of the Warden. I feel like this is the eventual fate of our Inquisitor too, but I hope not.

The Warden would have been much harder to incorporate into the game the very thing we liked about him in Dragon Age Origins was the fact that he was so customizable but with all his origins races and classes to choose from not to mention appearance it would have been much harder to incorporate him or her into the game

For my part I would I will gladly accept that trade off

[King Dragonlord]

well...have you continued playing past that scene?

 

Spoiler

for the elf inquisitor, after the big reveal with flemeth (mythal), why would he/she continue to be offended that morrigan wishes to drink from the well? flemeth basically tells morrigan that her quest to preserve the ancient magics is not of her own will, but because of how flemeth has raised her for that very quest. morrigan partaking in the well may as well be mythal's will. would the elf inquisitor not respect that? also why would the elf inquisitor continue to believe that they are more fit for the well over mythal's daughter?

 

Neither you nor Morrigan learns any of that until after the deed is done. Morrigan's motive are certainly not her mother's nor for that matter do Flemeth/Mythal's seem to be aligned with Elvish interests. She just wants revenge. If she wanted to help the elves regain their heritage she could have done it long ago.

[TheLastArchivist]

Nothing we've seen from her suggests that because she never shoots completely straight with anybody. She tells people the part thats useful to them and hides her real agenda. Whether history belongs to its own race or not it sure doesn't belong to someone like her. 

 

In fact, her character makes her one of the least qualified. 

Well, she does seem to be going to great lenghts to preserve the Old Gods.

 

I believe that's her real agenda, after all.

 

Morrigan is usually very pragmatic. And yet, she asks you to perform the whole Mythal ritual in the temple, confessing later that mankind stands to lose from the death of the Old Gods. 

 

I don't like or dislike the character, but her mission in the name of a greater good seems to be genuine. As to the means she uses to achieve it, though, they're questionable, of course.

[Addai]

Its leagues more important than the purposes of one young woman acting unilaterally in a way that would deny an entire race. And this isn't pride anyway, this is recovering even a precious little of all that has been taken from them. I can't believe you'd dismiss that as mere pride.

"No one should have this but us" is pride. I understand the motivation, and I'm sure my character had a lot of the same objections, but it's not the only way to see the situation, especially given the metagame knowledge we have. For my PC, it was enough that Solas was so certain it was the wrong thing to do. Although his actual dialogue is hard to interpret- he isn't thrilled with Morrigan taking the power, either.

[gothicshark]

Actually the Elves have out done Flemeth in the immortality department. Zathrian lived for centuries without once having to possess a new body. My Elfquisitor was a Mage and was the Keeper's first. And her being bound to Flemeth does nothing to inspire the hope that it would be shared. Flemeth never shared herself. The Elfquisitor at least has that desire.

At this point I think you are just being obtuse.

1. No elf has out done Flemeth,

Spoiler

After all she is what is left of their primary god Mythal

2. Zathrian wasn't immortal, he was self cursed, with a side effect of longevity.
3. Your Elf Inquisitor is still bound by the knowledge of her people, hell she didn't have the knowledge of any Circle, which in lore even the lowest Circle has a greater collection of Elven Lore and spells than any Dalish clan. Lets face it if any group of Mages has a secret of immortality it would be the Tevinter Magisters, guess what they don't. However if you are playing a Male Inquisitor who romances Dorian that would be the best chance at Trivinter Knowledge. Because Solas

Spoiler

the Elven god Fen'Harel The Dread Wolf

is the only elf with true knowledge of the ancient ways, and he wont tell the inquisitor .

Spoiler

Since he is the actual villain of the story.

4. If you are doing a self righteous Elven Play-through, or a power hungry inquisitor go ahead and drink from the well, however it is actually not the best choice.

[Dean_the_Young]

Well, she does seem to be going to great lenghts to preserve the Old Gods.

 

I believe that's her real agenda, after all.

 

Morrigan is usually very pragmatic. And yet, she asks you to perform the whole Mythal ritual in the temple, confessing later that mankind stands to lose from the death of the Old Gods. 

 

I don't like or dislike the character, but her mission in the name of a greater good seems to be genuine. As to the means she uses to achieve it, though, they're questionable, of course.

 

Morrigan wants to preserve the Old Gods and old magics because they are unique, powerful, and irreplaceable. She is a conservationist, of a sort, and sees value in things for their own sake (though obviously not necessarily the sort of value we prioritize or give to the mundane and common).

 

Flemeth posture is more of a tool-user. She does things to advance her agenda, which gives her a different motivation and objective towards the same subjects. Whereas Morrigan wants the Old God baby because 'some things are worth preserving,' Flemeth wants the Old God baby because it is a uniquely powerful asset that can advance her interests.

[Bann Duncan]

It's really irritating to see topics angry about things that are explained as you play through the game. Why people can't wait to see how a story goes, rather than complain in media res, I will never understand.

[King Dragonlord]

It's really irritating to see topics angry about things that are explained as you play through the game. Why people can't wait to see how a story goes, rather than complain in media res, I will never understand.

 

The explanation didn't make me any happier. Suddenly she's Mythal. How much you wanna bet Bioware had no idea that was going to be the case when they first created her.