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[In Exile]

They have done what they could with the little knowledge they have. And ultimately, it's THEIR history. That alone qualifies them to call dibs on the well. Thats all i will say on that.

I would have been disappointed if Morrigan wouldn't have made a play for the well. Ancient magic turns her in to a magpie that has spotted a shiny and it has allways been this way. And indeed, from a pure magical perspective she is the most qualified person on thedas to deal with the well. But the well is much, much more than just magic. It is a thousand lifetimes of elven life and that is why my inquisitor drank from the well. Solas made the same mistake in thinking that the inquisitor was after power, but it was knowledge alone that drove her. And the price? That is no price for a faithful.
The whole thing is delightfully written overall with its delicious hook if Morri drinks from the well

As Solas so frequently reminds you, the Dalish are not the entirety of the elven people still surviving. They have their views and biases, and their idealisation of their past. The CEs are trapped in a culture that isn't their own, but the Dalish are holding on to an imagined past that never existed.

Just look at how some people in this thread see the idea of becoming Mythal's slave a welcome one. Look at what happened to Abellas, who stayed in a a temple while his entire society collapsed and did nothing. Even when the Dales were formed and could have benefited from him and his people.

[In Exile]

Are you offering to let me take your money? Because I'd happily take your money.

Unlike the ME trilogy, in which the devs have confessed that the nature and objective of the Reapers and the underlying lore was made up as it went along, the DA team has a pretty well documented reference to deep lore and pre-existing worldbuilding on things that include the nature of the Fade and magic, the pre-history of Thedas, and the the truth of the Gods. We don't know them, but the Devs have more than once referred to the fact that these things exist in their internal wiki and deep lore.

The nature of Flemeth and what she is has always been a a deliberate mystery since the start. We knew she wasn't a mere mortal, that she had access to magics unlike any other, that she and Morrigan had deep knowledge of the Old God rituals and more. DAO heavily hinted that her nature was unique, and DA2 was explicit about it: multiple companions (especially Fenris) explicitly identified her nature as unique and unknown, denying the possibility of even an abomination.

While plot lines have been maleable in the DA creation process, dropping this idea or incorporating that subplot here, the underlying lore has been pretty stable and not subject to change. The main 'retcons' primarily have surrounded Alistair, to be honest: the gameplay/lore segregation about the necessity of lyrium, and the chronology for him being Fiona's child, both of these apparently being oversights in the implementation. While the DA team has kept us on our toes and adapting to revelations, it's generally been in the form of introducing new facts to what was vague, not changing pre-signaled positions on the nature of various things and the lore.

Flemeth, legendary witch of the wilds, a seemingly timeless crone with unique knowledge and magics that defy reasonable explanation, being a host for the spirit of a long-missing elven goddess? Yes, I can believe that.

Another example of this is Fenris. Merrill remarks that he has the same markings as the Dalish. He chastises her because his markings are slave markings. Except as we learn in DAI, that's not actually so different after all. And in all likelihood the ritual the Tevinters used was just something stolen from the elves to begin with

[congokong]

If you're role-playing a typical dalish your OP makes sense, but logically unbiased I lean far more towards, say, Sera's view on the whole "our people" argument. What you're suggesting is pretty much racism. That's like saying if a caucasian and an african-american stumbled on something similar but relating to african history, the african-american should have it (even if far less educated on the subject) because of their melanin production. Neither the african-americans or the dalish are the "people" that past is referring to. Believing otherwise is self-imposed segregation.

 

Sera says it best.

 

"There's that we again. We means us against them, and I like them."

[congokong]

The writer in me always wants to give it to Morrigan. The irony and twist of fate is just too delicious.

 

The roleplayer in me wants my Cadash to have it because it would be important to his king's goals.

 

The headcanoner in me says "**** it, Cadash and Morrigan and Lavellan and Surana and Merrill all drink from it".

I know what you mean. With small guilt I occasionally go against what clearly is the better written path (ex: destroying the anvil of the void) to do what I want. I think from a written perspective Morrigan is clearly the one meant to go wading. Besides the irony trying to escape Flemeth, the way Flemeth approaches her shortly afterwards felt like it was meant for her.

[introverted_assassin]

If you're role-playing a typical dalish your OP makes sense, but logically unbiased I lean far more towards, say, Sera's view on the whole "our people" argument. What you're suggesting is pretty much racism. That's like saying if a caucasian and an african-american stumbled on something similar but relating to african history, the african-american should have it (even if far less educated on the subject) because of their melanin production. Neither the african-americans or the dalish are the "people" that past is referring to. Believing otherwise is self-imposed segregation.

Sera says it best.

"There's that we again. We means us against them, and I like them."

oh no no no no. no no. i disagree with this SO hard. i can't even form my words right now because i've been lowkey lurking in this thread and lordt. no. i'll be back.

[Ski Mask Wei]

If you're role-playing a typical dalish your OP makes sense, but logically unbiased I lean far more towards, say, Sera's view on the whole "our people" argument. What you're suggesting is pretty much racism. That's like saying if a caucasian and an african-american stumbled on something similar but relating to african history, the african-american should have it (even if far less educated on the subject) because of their melanin production. Neither the african-americans or the dalish are the "people" that past is referring to. Believing otherwise is self-imposed segregation.

 

Sera says it best.

 

"There's that we again. We means us against them, and I like them."

 

 

Think of it like inheritance.  Let's say your great, great, great uncle or something left the secret of how to get superpowers just lying around in a cave somewhere that you and I happen to be in.  I mean you get to have Superman style powers and everything.   Would you honestly be happy if I took it knowing it comes from your flesh and blood?  Do you think your ancestor would want his legacy taken from you his descendant and given to some complete outsider?  

[congokong]

Think of it like inheritance.  Let's say your great, great, great uncle or something left the secret of how to get superpowers just lying around in a cave somewhere that you and I happen to be in.  I mean you get to have Superman style powers and everything.   Would you honestly be happy if I took it knowing it comes from your flesh and blood?  Do you think your ancestor would want his legacy taken from you his descendant and given to some complete outsider?  

It's not inheritance though. There's no will saying "I want so and so to have this." You can think "Oh, surely the ancient elves would want another elf in the far future to have this over a shemlen even if they could barely grasp it" but that's pure speculation. Besides, actual inheritance is done sometimes more out of convenience rather than justification.

[Ski Mask Wei]

It's not inheritance though. There's no will saying "I want so and so to have this." You can think "Oh, surely the ancient elves would want another elf in the far future to have this over a shemlen even if they could barely grasp it" but that's pure speculation. Besides, actual inheritance is done sometimes more out of convenience rather than justification.

It's like inheritance because certain things should be passed along to your kin after you die if possible.  It really doesn't matter if it's right or someone else can use it better.  I'm pretty sure I could do more with the cash that some of these rich brats inherit from Daddy Big Bucks but if I would say "I'm more qualified to use it" to them they'd look at me like I was crazy.  And they should.  That's their blood, that's their right.  Way more of a right than Morrigan has (at least in that moment before we know who Mythal is).    

[congokong]

It's like inheritance because certain things should be passed along to your kin after you die if possible.  It really doesn't matter if it's right or someone else can use it better.  I'm pretty sure I could do more with the cash that some of these rich brats inherit from Daddy Big Bucks but if I would say "I'm more qualified to use it" to them they'd look at me like I was crazy.  And they should.  That's their blood, that's their right.  Way more of a right than Morrigan has (at least in that moment before we know who Mythal is).    

Now we're talking in circles. There's no actual inheritance so this is all moot.

[Wulfram]

She's a subject-matter expert. That is kind of how it works.

I know more about British history than the average Britisher, I know more about Russian history than the average Russian, I know more about Chinese history than the average Chinese, and I currently have a job that involves lecturing average American undergraduates on American history. I am not native to any of those countries. I trust that you don't consider this to be 'trolling' as well?

A Dalish apprentice would presumably also be an expert, though. It's the Keeper's purpose.

[Herr Uhl]

A Dalish apprentice would presumably also be an expert, though. It's the Keeper's purpose.

Then again, they knew not what vallaslin mean, nor do they know their language beyond a couple of stock phrases and what they made up.

Morrigan can evidently read ancient elven (most likely due to being taught by the spark of an ancient elven god who was grooming her to be the next vessel for her essence) so I'd say she is probably beyond what the Dalish know about Elvhenan.

[Wulfram]

Then again, they knew not what vallaslin mean, nor do they know their language beyond a couple of stock phrases and what they made up.

Morrigan can evidently read ancient elven (most likely due to being taught by the spark of an ancient elven god who was grooming her to be the next vessel for her essence) so I'd say she is probably beyond what the Dalish know about Elvhenan.

Dalish elves understand Solas half the time, so I think you're underestimating their ability with the language. And I don't think Morrigan knew about the Vallaslin thing either.

[Herr Uhl]

Dalish elves understand Solas half the time, so I think you're underestimating their ability with the language. And I don't think Morrigan knew about the Vallaslin thing either.

But she didn't put slave tattoos on her face in order to please gods that she believes are dead. And the fact that she was literally being groomed to be the vessel for the spark of Mythal kind of speaks in her favour when it comes to drinking from the well of sorrows.

The Dalish are like Neopagans as compared to Morrigan having a being who was there, and was central to their religion, teaching her for most of her life.

[LobselVith8]

Then again, they knew not what vallaslin mean, nor do they know their language beyond a couple of stock phrases and what they made up.

In "The Stolen Throne", the Dalish speak elvish with one another, and only speak the Common Tongue when dealing with outsiders. Inquisitor Lavellan can also speak entire sentences to Solas, and understands the entire conversation spoken by Solas' friend who speaks elvish.

Morrigan can evidently read ancient elven (most likely due to being taught by the spark of an ancient elven god who was grooming her to be the next vessel for her essence) so I'd say she is probably beyond what the Dalish know about Elvhenan.

Morrigan and Lavellan both lack the full picture, as Solas' snarky comments to Morrigan address.

[Steelcan]

In "The Stolen Throne", the Dalish speak elvish with one another, and only speak the Common Tongue when dealing with outsiders. Inquisitor Lavellan can also speak entire sentences to Solas, and understands the entire conversation spoken by Solas' friend who speaks elvish.
 

And Merrill says differently, in game evidence > books

[LobselVith8]

But she didn't put slave tattoos on her face in order to please gods that she believes are dead.

Trapped in the Eternal City, not dead. And Dalish vallaslin don't hold the same meaning as Arlathan vallaslin, as they were reappropriated by the People after the fall of the Dales.

And the fact that she was literally being groomed to be the vessel for the spark of Mythal kind of speaks in her favour when it comes to drinking from the well of sorrows.

The Dalish are like Neopagans as compared to Morrigan having a being who was there, and was central to their religion, teaching her for most of her life.

I don't think Morrigan was raised to be culturally elven; Asha'bellanar seemed to have her own agenda, after all.

[ComedicSociopathy]

I would prefer that Lavellan have the knowledge of the Well.

 

Not because the later is elven and thus has a "right" to it, but by the fact that Lavellan is for more likely to actually share that knowledge with the world. Morrigan cries about the ignorance of mankind but has never really tried to share her discoveries to the world.

 

Then again, this is Thedas and chances are that people will probably just ignore her and promptly try to burn her as a witch. Still, effort would nice. 

[LOLandStuff]

You get a whole lot of information about the past but in the end you're still bound to the will of a god. For all we know that god might not let you share it. You're just gonna do what that god wants you to do while completely ignorant of it. And the bits of information you're given is just enough to help you with your fight against Corypheus.

So I'd rather have my Lavellan not bound to some trapped god for the sake of some knowledge they might not be able to share in the first place. If Mythal really cared that much about the elves, she wouldn't have gone about for centuries plotting revenge.

 

So saying a Dalish deserve it because they're Dalish doesn't make sense if she completely shuts you off after the fight.

[TEWR]

She's a subject-matter expert. That is kind of how it works.

I know more about British history than the average Britisher, I know more about Russian history than the average Russian, I know more about Chinese history than the average Chinese, and I currently have a job that involves lecturing average American undergraduates on American history. I am not native to any of those countries. I trust that you don't consider this to be 'trolling' as well?

 

Yeah but everything Morrigan espouses except for like one or two things are... all things the Dalish have been brought up with.

 

You'd have a point if she had given us a plethora of new information. but she doesn't. She didn't even know that much about the Dalish during Origins (like literally she didn't know a thing, which she points out. She had to ask Mahariel a little bit about their stuff) and she's hardly the only one with the most expertise on the Eluvians

[TEWR]

And Merrill says differently, in game evidence > books

 

The Dalish are probably rebuilding the language bit by bit based on what they discover. Their language is still lost and alien to them, but they can work with it enough in conversation rather then saying simpler things like 'hello' and 'goodbye' and **** like that.

[Hazegurl]

[RoseLawliet]

History belongs to no one... which is to say it belongs to everyone. I don't care if the people it's talking about have pointy ears, or they're short, or horned, or whatever -- what they did affected the world the rest the population lives in. So I absolutely want the experts to get first shot at the material, with everyone else (who wants to) weighing in afterward.

 

And yes, I'm willing to accept Morrigan as this expert. As a player I was still fuming about the end of Origins, but I thought "Something bad is going to happen if I don't give this to you, won't it?" The Inquisitor I was playing at the time decided she wanted nothing to do with the "price". So Morrigan got her wish, and I got to laugh at her later.

 

I would like to know if anyone has changed their mind about the benefits of the Inquisitor taking the Well after playing through Trespasser. Even if our characters still don't know Solas absorbed Mythal, we do. I can't imagine it's good for the fate of the world having the person who is best able to start working against his plan also maybe being under his control.

[Qun00]

DAI Morrigan is a fairly good person, if a little stupid.

[Qun00]

Another example of this is Fenris. Merrill remarks that he has the same markings as the Dalish. He chastises her because his markings are slave markings. Except as we learn in DAI, that's not actually so different after all. And in all likelihood the ritual the Tevinters used was just something stolen from the elves to begin with

I can imagine that if the slaves from Arlathan could see the Dalish today they'd become enraged.

They must've hated their vallaslin as much as Fenris hated his lyrium markings and yet these people are wearing it with a smile.