176 réponses à ce sujet

[AtreiyaN7]

*sigh* The Dalish are woefully ignorant about their true history, right down to actual meaning of the vallaslin, and they're equally ignorant about the true nature of their own magic for that matter. Honestly, Morrigan was probably more qualified to carry on the legacy of elven magic than anyone's elfquisitor or magequisitor was.

 

And frankly, Morrigan might even have been meant to serve that purpose - not via the Well per se but probably in some other way. Maybe you forgot this important point, but she's Flemeth-Mythal's daughter and was raised and taught by Flemeth-Mythal about all things magical. So yes, I actually do think she's the most qualified person aside from Solas (who wouldn't do it for reasons that are now obvious).

 

Despite the fact that Morrigan's understanding of things is clearly imperfect, she's still light-years ahead of almost every other northern mage in terms of the study of magic, history, and overall knowledge.

[Dean_the_Young]

*sigh* The Dalish are woefully ignorant about their true history, right down to actual meaning of the vallaslin, and they're equally ignorant about the true nature of their own magic for that matter. Honestly, Morrigan was probably more qualified to carry on the legacy of elven magic than anyone's elfquisitor or magequisitor was.

 

And frankly, Morrigan might even have been meant to serve that purpose - not via the Well per se but probably in some other way. Maybe you forgot this important point, but she's Flemeth-Mythal's daughter and was raised and taught by Flemeth-Mythal about all things magical. So yes, I actually do think she's the most qualified person aside from Solas (who wouldn't do it for reasons that are now obvious).

 

Despite the fact that Morrigan's understanding of things is clearly imperfect, she's still light-years ahead of almost every other northern mage in terms of the study of magic, history, and overall knowledge.

 

Of obscure arcana and forgotten history? Sure. Of 'modern' history and overall knowledge? This is a woman who didn't know the basic facts of the dominant theology of the continent, and whose understanding of society and social interactions bordered on the sociopathic, if not inept.

 

Morrigan knows obscure things because she had the ultimate teacher of obscurity. The rest?

[Jaison1986]

*sigh* The Dalish are woefully ignorant about their true history, right down to actual meaning of the vallaslin, and they're equally ignorant about the true nature of their own magic for that matter. Honestly, Morrigan was probably more qualified to carry on the legacy of elven magic than anyone's elfquisitor or magequisitor was.

 

And frankly, Morrigan might even have been meant to serve that purpose - not via the Well per se but probably in some other way. Maybe you forgot this important point, but she's Flemeth-Mythal's daughter and was raised and taught by Flemeth-Mythal about all things magical. So yes, I actually do think she's the most qualified person aside from Solas (who wouldn't do it for reasons that are now obvious).

 

Despite the fact that Morrigan's understanding of things is clearly imperfect, she's still light-years ahead of almost every other northern mage in terms of the study of magic, history, and overall knowledge.

 

The only thing you are right about is that Morrigan is well versed when it comes to magical knowledge. Other then that, she is no better then anyone else when it comes to knowing about elves or history. And honestly, if the Inquisitor was an shapeshifter, they would benefit from the well just as much as Morrigan. That was the only edge she really had.

[Vorathrad]

Morrigan is a writer's pet and they gave themselves the "She's Flemeth's daughter", so they are going to give her whatever knowledge and skills they want and not even bother writing a proper justification for it. It's one of these characters that Bioware tries too hard to let players know how amazing and powerful she is, and it's not different when it comes to the Well decision. But she is so smart and powerful and knows so many things than any Dalish don't, how can you doubt that she is the most prepared to deal with the knowledge of the Well!

 

The game makes it very clear: with the well she can shapeshift into a dragon, read ancient elven texts, while even a Dalish Inquisitor only hears confusing whispers. But it doesn't give any actual reasons as to how exactly huge her knowledge about all things elven is and how she acquired it. They don't even bother to explain how she got the eluvian and why nobody in Skyhold noticed she brought this huge and suspicious looking thing. In fact, it does all the contrary, as beyond reading writings in ancient elf she has no clue about the temple or the Fen'Harel statues everywhere and is spectacularly wrong about what was in it that Corypheus needed. Bioware just expects the player to accept that she is the best prepared to deal with the well because she's their amazing character and Flemeth's daughter.

[kimgoold]

Morrigans main objective is Morrigan. She only cares about amassing power for some as yet unknown reason/plan; that she lies about what she read in the Temple of Mythal just proves she's untrustworthy - dulpicitious and only willing to share what she wants to, so no way am I giving her all this irreplaceable knowledge that rightfully belongs to the elves and scholars.

 

And as for the Dalsih Inquisitor not having the necessary training or knowledge before, after they drink they will so that argument is rather Morrigan biased.

[Ariella]

 
And as for the Dalsih Inquisitor not having the necessary training or knowledge before, after they drink they will so that argument is rather Morrigan biased.

Uhmmm... no. Just because one has information does not mean one has context to use or interpret that information. A good example of this is Phil Coulson and Project Guest House, or Commander Shepard and the Eden Prime Beacon.

In Shepard's case she gained the information, but couldn't truly interpret the images until she got the Cypher, which provided context.

Spoiler for AoS:

Spoiler

For Coulson, the Guest House serum tapped Kree genetic memory that a human mind couldn't understand, and it was driving him mad as his subconcious tried.

A Dalish IQ, especially a non mage, wouldn't have the training and context.

And this is where we hear but Morrigan...!

Flemeth herself tells Morrigan that she is driven to preserve things like the Old God Soul and the Well, because that is what Flemeth raised her to do. This is a fact. Not subtext, Flemeth says it straight out. So if this is the case, what makes you think that she didn't provide Morrigan training so she could do what Flemeth meant her to? Do you honestly think Flemeth had Morrigan knitting the entire time they lived in the Wilds?

And as for shapeshifting into a dragon... Huh? Morrigan is already a shapeshifter, she has an affinity for this kind of magic already. And while we're on the subject of affinities, why wouldn't any of Flemeth's daughters have one for the shape of a dragon? I don't see any reason why that quirk wouldn't pass on, especially if they have the knowledge and already are able to shapeshift into other forms.

What we know about Morrigan is she was raised by one of the most powerful mages in Thedas, is a talented mage in her own right as well as a shapeshifter. She didn't truly leave the Wilds until the Blight and may or may or may not have gained the soul of an Old God and had a son. She restored an Eluvian in the two years after the Blight, then left Thedas for the Crossroads. After spending several years with access to portals that could take her all across Thedas and beyond that, she returns and becomes an advisor to Celene.

Does anyone honestly believe the woman sat around eating grapes and having her hair done during all that time? Didn't think so.

Morrigan is far from perfect. She's catty, arrogant, obnoxious, sometimes selfish, and hard. But there is a person under it all.

And yes she's Flemeth's daughter, which is not something you can discount, especially since it gives her access to a very powerful and knowledgable teacher.

Remember, Flemeth wanted her to have that tome. And she prepared an out, expecting Morrigan to try and kill her, because that was how Morrigan was made. It's all over the conversations with Flemeth if you look.

[GoldenGail3]

Morrigan likes to think she knows everything, it's part of who she is as a person. I like Morrigan in DAI, she's so awesome....

[Lumix19]

Of obscure arcana and forgotten history? Sure. Of 'modern' history and overall knowledge? This is a woman who didn't know the basic facts of the dominant theology of the continent, and whose understanding of society and social interactions bordered on the sociopathic, if not inept.

Morrigan knows obscure things because she had the ultimate teacher of obscurity. The rest?

She knew enough to make her the arcane advisor to Celene, I'd say she knows a lot more than she let's on about social interactions. She knows what people want and how to exploit it, something she mentions in Origins as well (though that was to do with men and flirtation).

[d1ta]

Honestly.. when my Lavellan's First ponder upon that well...

Yes, she was mad / offended that a shem witch claims to know more about 'elven stuff' than say, a First of her clan that has been groomed for most of her life time to take up the knowledge and responsibility of a Keeper.
There is this impending sense of "This knowledge belongs to MY people, Shem!"
Because my Inquisitor doesn't know who Morrigan really is, that her mom and life long mentor happens to be Asha Bellanar, what did she learn, what made ber tick, all those things probably only my HoF knows, and looking back, the dude probably knows only a smidge fraction about his weird BFF.
But as story progresses through the Temple, eventually (and bitterly accepting) that the Dalish version of what once was were totally wrong (and Abelas wasn't being gentle there either, so it felt that someone had just dropped a druffalo on her head)

Now, depending how you play it, a total 'Nationalistic' Dalish would press forward and look at this as an opportunity to drink from the well bottom's up. No shem aint gonna get their paws on real elven lore. No price is too high for such knowledge. Heck, being a 'true' servant of Mythal could even be considered a honour.

Or carve a new future without said knowledge. Admittedly, my Inqui chickened out in the end (for shame! Deshana would be sad). She decided that 'their' version of Elvhen Glory is different from 'her' version. Hated when being made Inquisitor, but overtime it began to stick. And now fights for the for the good of many (by making gradual changes) and thought that it's best that the mind of the Inquisitor should be 'free' from the well's influence.

... and honestly I'm kinda glad that I chickened out looking at Morrigan's face now she has to be a good lil' girl

There is no escaping mom

(I actually love this part of the arc: unsure, fretting, surprised, crying over that fateful family reunion then lol)

[In Exile]

Morrigan is a writer's pet and they gave themselves the "She's Flemeth's daughter", so they are going to give her whatever knowledge and skills they want and not even bother writing a proper justification for it. It's one of these characters that Bioware tries too hard to let players know how amazing and powerful she is, and it's not different when it comes to the Well decision. But she is so smart and powerful and knows so many things than any Dalish don't, how can you doubt that she is the most prepared to deal with the knowledge of the Well!

The game makes it very clear: with the well she can shapeshift into a dragon, read ancient elven texts, while even a Dalish Inquisitor only hears confusing whispers. But it doesn't give any actual reasons as to how exactly huge her knowledge about all things elven is and how she acquired it. They don't even bother to explain how she got the eluvian and why nobody in Skyhold noticed she brought this huge and suspicious looking thing. In fact, it does all the contrary, as beyond reading writings in ancient elf she has no clue about the temple or the Fen'Harel statues everywhere and is spectacularly wrong about what was in it that Corypheus needed. Bioware just expects the player to accept that she is the best prepared to deal with the well because she's their amazing character and Flemeth's daughter.

The game directly explained why you suck at using the well as the Inquisitor - you didn't train for it. It had nothing to do with being elven. As to how it's acquired, well, the answer is 30 years or so of study, much of it with a literal elven God.

[In Exile]

She knew enough to make her the arcane advisor to Celene, I'd say she knows a lot more than she let's on about social interactions. She knows what people want and how to exploit it, something she mentions in Origins as well (though that was to do with men and flirtation).

But even she explains that her role with Celene was about taking advantage of Celene's interests in the occult. As for men, her views are comically simple if not outright incorrect. Not as nonsensical as her views on power, but not great.

[King Dragonlord]

"I thought I knew what Flemeth planned. I thought what she craved was immortality. And yet I was wrong. So very wrong. She is no blood mage, no abomination... She is not even truly human. The ritual was but a means to an end, a herald for what is to come."

 

They have been planning this for a long, long time.

 

Spoiler

Do you really think someone who was raised by an elven goddess would not have special knowledge, even if she didn't know what her mother was at the time? Canonically it's hard to argue that Morrigan isn't one of the most powerful and knowledgeable witches in Thedas.

 

Oh please!

 

Any knowledge Morrigan has on that subject would have had to have been attained on her own. She had absolutely no clue as to her mother's true nature until some time between the events of Origins and this game. She thought her mother made a pact with a demon. She grew up either helping her mother hunt men or wandering the woods as a shapeshifter. She indicates no awareness of elven lore until the Witch Hunt DLC. Whatever she learned, an elf inquisitor could learn in time. And that knowledge would be infinitely more available to the elves in an elfquisitors hands. 

[Vorathrad]

The game directly explained why you suck at using the well as the Inquisitor - you didn't train for it. It had nothing to do with being elven. As to how it's acquired, well, the answer is 30 years or so of study, much of it with a literal elven God.

 

So once more, as it's always the case with Morrigan, the only reason boils down to "Flemeth's daughter". Which is frankly becoming quite tiresome, Bioware can do much better than that.

 

Edit: Besides, Abelas explains that no mortal can properly use the well because it requires the long years of training that only sentinels being immortal can have. So Morrigan may have a slightly bigger clue than you because Flemeth's daughter, but nowhere near the degree of understanding shown in game. As usual, Bioware thinks that because Morrigan is in their eyes such an amazing character the player will just accept that her awesomeness includes using the well, instead of writing a proper justification or, perish the thought, allow their pet to be on the same level as the player character. 

Modifié par Vorathrad, 31 octobre 2015 - 03:06 .

[Lumix19]

But even she explains that her role with Celene was about taking advantage of Celene's interests in the occult. As for men, her views are comically simple if not outright incorrect. Not as nonsensical as her views on power, but not great.

As I said, she knows how to help people help her, taking advantage of people requires you to be socially proficient - you can't be a conman without being someone people want to trust.

[King Dragonlord]

As I said, she knows how to help people help her, taking advantage of people requires you to be socially proficient - you can't be a conman without being someone people want to trust.

 

All you've done is highlight another inconsistency in her character. She's socially inept, openly rude haughty and superior, yet somehow she's able to manipulate people. The only skill she demonstrates that would make her manipulation of others plausible is her magic.

 

But its ok. We're long past the point where Bioware could hold to any pretense of following its own rules. And without consistency, drama and tension fail.

 

"But how could X person have done that?"  Oh I'm sure they'll cook up some bs to justify it. Or, as is becoming more popular with them, they'll simply never commit to any details in the first place so they don't have anything to contradict when their whims take them in a different direction.

[German Soldier]

Oh this topic is old but not so much,i always said that if the Inquisitor is an elf there should be no problem to use the well of sorrow,certainly all the elves interested in their own past will benefit from it,in Morrigan hands it is wasted because as soon as Corypheus is dead she is gone with all that knowledge.

[Inkvisiittori]

I loved her in DAO, but after DAI I just really hope we don't have to see her again. Yes, it was really sweet to see her with Kieran and hear her talk about the Warden. The last straw for me, however, was when she dared to stand there and say to my Dalish Inquisitors face: "I'm the only one worthy of the Well's power." She is NOT worthy! Abelas makes this very clear when he says that the Well's power better be lost than let Morrigan get her hands on it.

 

It's not just how insulting Morrigan is in that scene towards the Dalish Inquisitor (I understand that many see the dalish as childish pretenders clinging to their false gods and "old ways", so it's not surprising that Morrigan underestimates the Dalish Inquisitors knowledge and power) but also how she claims she's doing it all "for the greater good" and how clear it is that she doesn't care one bit about who she has to walk over in order to accomplish her goals.

 

I trust Morrigan even less than I trust Flemeth. At least we know that Mythal actually once was one of the better elven gods. Maybe she's now corrupted thanks to Flemeth, but there is still certain warmth to her when she talks to the Dalish Inquisitor. So it would seem that at least she, unlike the other Ancients, has not given up on the People. Of course there's no way to know for sure and now she may finally be truly dead - or worse, one with Morrigan... *shudders*

 

One thing I didn't like about the whole Well of Sorrows thing was that the choice was only between binding yourself to the will of very old (and possibly quite crazy) elven goddess or let Morrigan have that power. Well, for my Dalish Mage the decision was very easy of course, it's her duty to protect and preserve ancient elven knowledge - but for my rogue it was like choosing the lesser of two evils. And the ultimate evil would be giving any kind of power to Morrigan. She cannot be trusted. I just wish that Briala or even Merril had been there instead of her... I mean, what will happen to the Well's knowledge if the Inquisitor dies? And of course what happens to the Inquisitor? Can they even die? If they're supposedly tied forever to Mythal... Also, if Solas now *is* Mythal, what does that mean? So many questions...

 

Well, whatever happens in DA4, I hope that those of us who chose not to let Morrigan drink from the Well don't have to see her again. At least not in that game.

[AlleluiaElizabeth]

As a player, I trust Morrigan and Flemythal. At least, I trust them to act how I expect them to. And I don't think they've got some evil agenda or the ultimate goal of just hording the magic and knowledge and never using it. I may be proven the fool for that, but we'll see.

 

As for my Lavellan, she was a DD rogue. If she'd been a mage/first of her clan, things might have been different. She might have had more pride about it. But as it stood, she acknowledged Morrigan was more qualified than she was to actually be able to make sense of the magical knowledge the well held. And she knew the knowledge in it would do them no good if it couldn't be understood. Besides which, my Lavellan had a perfectly cordial relationship with Morrigan till then. She may very well have her own agenda, but that agenda clearly included defeating Corypheus and didn't seem to include anything nefarious to the world at large, so my Lavellan was content to let her have her secrets and agenda. Also, that cordial relationship meant that she felt she could ask Morrigan about the knowledge the well imparted later when she needed to and she'd get an answer. Or, failing that, she'd get a straight refusal.

 

Plus, she's in charge of a bunch of people, with the fate of southern Thedas in her hands and knows she can't afford to be mind controlled. Morrigan was only responsible for herself (in my game).

[Qun00]

It's just weird when the HoF says "Morrigan is the wisest person I know" in that letter, if she was romanced.

Knowledgeable? Sure. Wise? lol no. It isn't the same thing.

[Secret Rare]

It's just weird when the HoF says "Morrigan is the wisest person I know" in that letter, if she was romanced.

Knowledgeable? Sure. Wise? lol no. It isn't the same thing.

lol indeed,i just think that who wrote those letters at Bioware f*"*"" the warden personality completly.....

[Secret Rare]

I loved her in DAO, but after DAI I just really hope we don't have to see her again. Yes, it was really sweet to see her with Kieran and hear her talk about the Warden. The last straw for me, however, was when she dared to stand there and say to my Dalish Inquisitors face: "I'm the only one worthy of the Well's power." She is NOT worthy! Abelas makes this very clear when he says that the Well's power better be lost than let Morrigan get her hands on it.

It's not just how insulting Morrigan is in that scene towards the Dalish Inquisitor (I understand that many see the dalish as childish pretenders clinging to their false gods and "old ways", so it's not surprising that Morrigan underestimates the Dalish Inquisitors knowledge and power) but also how she claims she's doing it all "for the greater good" and how clear it is that she doesn't care one bit about who she has to walk over in order to accomplish her goals.

I trust Morrigan even less than I trust Flemeth. At least we know that Mythal actually once was one of the better elven gods. Maybe she's now corrupted thanks to Flemeth, but there is still certain warmth to her when she talks to the Dalish Inquisitor. So it would seem that at least she, unlike the other Ancients, has not given up on the People. Of course there's no way to know for sure and now she may finally be truly dead - or worse, one with Morrigan... *shudders*

One thing I didn't like about the whole Well of Sorrows thing was that the choice was only between binding yourself to the will of very old (and possibly quite crazy) elven goddess or let Morrigan have that power. Well, for my Dalish Mage the decision was very easy of course, it's her duty to protect and preserve ancient elven knowledge - but for my rogue it was like choosing the lesser of two evils. And the ultimate evil would be giving any kind of power to Morrigan. She cannot be trusted. I just wish that Briala or even Merril had been there instead of her... I mean, what will happen to the Well's knowledge if the Inquisitor dies? And of course what happens to the Inquisitor? Can they even die? If they're supposedly tied forever to Mythal... Also, if Solas now *is* Mythal, what does that mean? So many questions...

Well, whatever happens in DA4, I hope that those of us who chose not to let Morrigan drink from the Well don't have to see her again. At least not in that game.

Agree 100% aside from the first part of the post.
I never liked nor trusted her since DAO in fact i gladly destroyed the old god to prevent her to have that soul since i would have trusted more Corypheus with it than Morrigan.
In DAI there is no option to tell her to leave from my inquisition ,no option for my Lavellan to send her away at the altar of Mythal.
Of course i didn't want the well because i trusted Solas but the game force one of us to drink,so i listened to Abelas accepted my legacy and used the well of sorrow.
And if Abelas say that she is undeserving he is right,she has no respect for Mythal for Morrigan it is just power.

[Bayonet Hipshot]

It's just weird when the HoF says "Morrigan is the wisest person I know" in that letter, if she was romanced.

Knowledgeable? Sure. Wise? lol no. It isn't the same thing.

 

If you romanced Leliana, the letter the HoF writes is pretty on-point about her. IMO, if Morrigan was in D&D, she would be a Wizard with High Intelligence and Low Wisdom with some decent Charisma.

[German Soldier]

her stated agenda of preserving the past is undermined by the fact that she hordes secrets rather than share knowledge, despite expecting others to take great risk for her benefit.
As i said the well of sorrow should remain in elvhen hands or at least with Someone (no matter what the race) that want to share with the world and the elves.

Those who don't want to share history do not deserve to know history

[German Soldier]

If you romanced Leliana, the letter the HoF writes is pretty on-point about her. 

The letter for Leliana it does make sense at least!

 

"I was not there for the death of Divine Justinia, but I know it will have hurt her terribly. While her wits and her skill are amazing, Leliana's greatest strength lies in her faith, and to have Justinia die strikes at her very core. I beg you, if she is faltering, help her find her way back into the light."

[Donquijote and 59 others]

It's just weird when the HoF says "Morrigan is the wisest person I know" in that letter, if she was romanced.

Knowledgeable? Sure. Wise? lol no. It isn't the same thing.

Hey,Hey! It seems the warden got more stupid over the years it must be because of the taint haha