394 réponses à ce sujet

[TK514]

It's irrelevant to the discussion of her choice in Redcliffe. What's crazy is that people keep bringing it up anyway. WE GET IT.

Well, the topic is 'Why does everybody hate Fiona?'.

 

I can sum up my position as "I think she's a terribly written character".  Her whiplashing from 'God's Gift to Thedas' in the books to 'Idiot of the Ages' in DA:I doesn't help matters.

 

Honestly, I expect my opinion of her could have at least improved had she and the mages not ended up being the spoiled children of the Inquisition.

[Xilizhra]

*feels good not having to care about any of this due to Fiona winning anyway*

[Addai]

When is she "god's gift to Thedas" in the books? Because she's no longer tainted?

[Ranadiel Marius]

*feels good not having to care about any of this due to Fiona winning anyway*

How is getting stabbed with a sword and buried under a mountain winning? O.o

[Dean_the_Young]

*feels good not having to care about any of this due to Fiona winning anyway*

 

If you define down 'winning' enough, anyway, to the point that her intentions and actions were pretty much irrelevant to any potential success.

[Xilizhra]

If you define down 'winning' enough, anyway, to the point that her intentions and actions were pretty much irrelevant to any potential success.

I take what I can get.

 

Spoiler

And without the mage rebellion, there wouldn't have been a Conclave. And without the Conclave, there wouldn't have been the obliteration of the highest ranks of the Chantry, thus enabling Leliana to eventually become Divine and institute the necessary reforms at long bloody last. It's accidental credit, and Corypheus deserves as much as Fiona, but that hardly means that the ultimate outcome wasn't good.

[Steelcan]

How long before the epilogue of DA:I is dismissed as rumor?

[Xilizhra]

How long before the epilogue of DA:I is dismissed as rumor?

Never. It only happened in DAO because they didn't know whether the game would be in a continuing series. In Inquisition, they did; hence, the epilogues are designed around that.

[Milan92]

Something tells me Leliana freeing the mages is going to have nasty consequences.

 

But hey, who cares about the non-mages that get hurt right? So long as the mages are free and can do what they want.

[Lulupab]

We all know how Leliana treats the mages. But I'd like to point out Vivienne is also not bad, even though I don't like her. She actually grants Fiona's initial wish, same old circles with much more freedom for the mages and autonomy.

[herkles]

I wonder if the outcome will make the mages of the south not act like spoiled children?

[Xilizhra]

Something tells me Leliana freeing the mages is going to have nasty consequences.

 

But hey, who cares about the non-mages that get hurt right? So long as the mages are free and can do what they want.

*looks at all other possible Bioware endgame choices that seemed to have the potential for "nasty consequences"*

 

I'm guessing not, to be honest. Especially since it isn't really a choice, but something that just pops up depending on other decisions you made.

[TK514]

I take what I can get.

 

Spoiler

And without the mage rebellion, there wouldn't have been a Conclave. And without the Conclave, there wouldn't have been the obliteration of the highest ranks of the Chantry, thus enabling Leliana to eventually become Divine and institute the necessary reforms at long bloody last. It's accidental credit, and Corypheus deserves as much as Fiona, but that hardly means that the ultimate outcome wasn't good.

 

Spoiler

I'm curious as to the state of your Leliana.  Hardened or Unhardened?  Status relative to the HoF?  In my case, she was hardened and her true love, the HoF, was taken from her in the Ultimate Sacrifice at the moment of their triumph.  She talked about how she felt betrayed by the Maker.  How her life had, briefly, been filled with love and song, and then when she should have been happiest it was all taken from her and she was left in cold silence.  It was actually quite heartbreaking.  In the end, when I did discuss the possibility of her becoming Divine, she comes across as a little unhinged.  She doesn't talk about reformation so much as she does murdering anyone who gets in the way of her vision of how things should be.  Cassandra actually comes across as the reasonable reformist.  She discusses a reformed Circle system with Mages in control of their own governance and lives, both with and within the Templars, with the Chantry as a partner rather than an overseer.  She also discusses a reformation of the Chantry itself, steering the organization away from mindless adherence to dogma and a renewed focus on helping the less fortunate of Thedas.  Her vision was actually what a great many people on the boards, pro-Templar and pro-Mage alike, have stated they wanted from a reformed Circle and Chantry.

[Steelcan]

Never. It only happened in DAO because they didn't know whether the game would be in a continuing series. In Inquisition, they did; hence, the epilogues are designed around that.

. I still doubt they will follow through with all the disparate endings. When the Divine decision alone is so varied, I wonder how they will build a coherent and fairly universal worldstate for the next game.

I feel that retcons to Leliana as divine, state of Circles and the Order, etc... Are in the future. There's no way for them to sidestep the various systems. Even shifting the locale North won't solve it. Antiva, Rivain, and the Anderfells would be subject to these changes as well

[Xilizhra]

Spoiler

I'm curious as to the state of your Leliana.  Hardened or Unhardened?  Status relative to the HoF?  In my case, she was hardened and her true love, the HoF, was taken from her in the Ultimate Sacrifice at the moment of their triumph.  She talked about how she felt betrayed by the Maker.  How her life had, briefly, been filled with love and song, and then when she should have been happiest it was all taken from her and she was left in cold silence.  It was actually quite heartbreaking.  In the end, when I did discuss the possibility of her becoming Divine, she comes across as a little unhinged.  She doesn't talk about reformation so much as she does murdering anyone who gets in the way of her vision of how things should be.  Cassandra actually comes across as the reasonable reformist.  She discusses a reformed Circle system with Mages in control of their own governance and lives, both with and within the Templars, with the Chantry as a partner rather than an overseer.  She also discusses a reformation of the Chantry itself, steering the organization away from mindless adherence to dogma and a renewed focus on helping the less fortunate of Thedas.  Her vision was actually what a great many people on the boards, pro-Templar and pro-Mage alike, have stated they wanted from a reformed Circle and Chantry.

Spoiler

Unhardened, romanced, alive. Perfect.

 

 

. I still doubt they will follow through with all the disparate endings. When the Divine decision alone is so varied, I wonder how they will build a coherent and fairly universal worldstate for the next game.

I feel that retcons to Leliana as divine, state of Circles and the Order, etc... Are in the future. There's no way for them to sidestep the various systems. Even shifting the locale North won't solve it. Antiva, Rivain, and the Anderfells would be subject to these changes as well

Not Tevinter and not Seheron. And if retcons were on their way, they wouldn't have made this a choice anyway.

[Steelcan]

Don't see us having a game set entirely outside White Thedas just to side step this.

Don't pretend BioWare hasn't dropped the ball on forward planning in the past. I have little confidence in their ability to satisfactorily handle this.

[TK514]

Spoiler

Unhardened, romanced, alive. Perfect.

 

 

Spoiler

That would certainly make a significant difference.  I suspect she is a much more lighthearted character in her personal scenes than mine.

[Xilizhra]

Don't see us having a game set entirely outside White Thedas just to side step this.

Don't pretend BioWare hasn't dropped the ball on forward planning in the past. I have little confidence in their ability to satisfactorily handle this.

We've had three games in Andrastian Thedas. Why not step outside the box?

[KingTony]

Well, she's a petulant fool.

[Steelcan]

We've had three games in Andrastian Thedas. Why not step outside the box?

I don't think they will avoid the region entirely.

I'd love to see Tevinter and Seheron or Par Vollen. I just don't think they will abandon White Thedas entirely, when we still haven't been to most of the Free Marches, Antiva, Rivain, Nevarra, or the Anderfells

[EmissaryofLies]

We've had three games in Andrastian Thedas. Why not step outside the box?

 

But what about Andraste? What about the Maker? What about doing the right thing? 

 

Staying inside of the box and hearing more and more about this absentee deity is what is preferable when I look to be entertained.

[herkles]

We've had three games in Andrastian Thedas. Why not step outside the box?

correct, but Gaider has said he wants to go north. To the Qun Lands, Seheron, and tevinter yes. But also Rivain and Antivia, those two kingdoms as well as the Anderfels are part of the andrastian chantry at least in name.  Not to mention there is also Nevarra and the Free Marches(we only went to 1 city state) So this decision would have to be touched upon if we go anywhere besides Seheron, qun lands or tevinter.

[TK514]

Honestly, I kinda agree.  I think I'm ready for a Tevinter/Rivain/Qunari game.  If we go North, even if we can't completely escape White Thedas, it is entirely possible they can get away with a few alternate lines mentioning Divine Victoria's stewardship without it being a significant presence in game.  I doubt it's a mistake that the Divine is always Victoria, regardless of who takes the position.

 

Spend a game or two outside the White Divine's area of direct control and by the time we get back, they could all basically collapse back into the same long term result.

[Dave of Canada]

We've had three games in Andrastian Thedas. Why not step outside the box?

I wouldn't mind playing a missionary trying to convert the heretics.

[Steelcan]

And the collapsing back into the status quo is what I don't want. They made all these varied choices and we should see the outcome. Such as the rise of blood magic and such in southern Circles under Leliana, or the reconstituted Seekers with Cassandra and the reforms to the Circle and Order