22 réponses à ce sujet

[Dre G Writer]

I think I have found a error, bug, or mishap with the Dragon rage Skill. Something about it didnt add up, with the amount of damage i was taking per attack with dragon rage, so I decided to record some video footage and take a deeper look.

 

Here is the footage were going to reference

 

 

In the video above as you can see, I have seven bars of health. Which means each bar of health is a bit over ten percent of my health, around 14 or so percent per bar.

The description on dragon rage, says that it cost 2% of your life per attack. Which means if I attack five times with dragon rage, I should only lose 10% of my life, which means after five attacks from dragon rage, with seven life bars, i should still have around 1/3 of life left in a single bar of health, right???

 

In the video, go to the 3 second mark, look at where my health is at, five bars of health remaining, and play the video, watch the first five attacks with dragon rage, and look at where my health is at now....

 

 

 

 

 

If you don't feel like doing that, I'll tell you

 

My health is now at three bars of health after the five attacks.

 

two complete bars of life is lost after five dragon rage attacks.

(Disclaimer: There are no enemies present. All enemies defeated, the boss is already dying, aka, can't attack, all damage received is from dragon rage alone)

 

So each attack from dragon rage is doing more like around 5-6% of damage to my health per attack.

 

So either one of two things has happened.

 

1. The skill is working as intended and the skill description is wrong.

 

or

 

2. The skill is not working as intended and the description is correct.

 

Bioware should be made aware of this, incase that scenario 1 or 2 is indeed true.

 

If this is in-correct, please share your findings and info below.

 

 

For this reason, Dragon Rage should NOT be used unless under the effects of rampage. This could explain why Reavers are dying so fast when under the effect of the rampage glitch where they don't received health per attack as in this video.

 

[ElectricFeel]

Good post, when I was playing reaver I always felt like I was losing a lot more health than I should be when using Dragon Rage, needless to say the learning curve was quick and I stopped using it except when Rampage was running.

[Azrus]

 

For this reason, Dragon Rage should NOT be used unless under the effects of rampage. This could explain why Reavers are dying so fast when under the effect of the rampage glitch where they don't received health per attack as in this video.

 

 

First off, thanks for actually checking that out.  It always seemed high to me as well but I never bothered testing it.  It's nice to see I'm not crazy.

 

That's some pretty extreme advice though.  Considering you can insta-heal with Rampage I don't think there's anything wrong with using Dragon-rage without it.  That depends on the particular circumstances of course, but if I'm confident I can get within melee range of an enemy before I get hit, then I'll let my HP drop to ~50% before popping Rampage.  It just helps ensure that I'm not wasting Rampage on every random mob that comes along.  Like I said though, depends on the circumstances.

[Tang McGame]

Always felt like it was taking way more than it ought to.  Thanks for testing it.  Hope they fix it.

[Sir Jessku]

I thought the same thing but figured I was taking damage from some random enemy.

[Vishimtar]

Yes it definitely takes way more than 2%, it's very easy to tell without any testing.  There's no universe where I could use 50 dragon rage attacks before killing myself even if not getting hit by anything.  That said, the tooltip will probably be changed to reflect the actual percentage it takes away which is likely closer to 10% rather than lowering the life drain, because reaver is already very op.

[Pureshadow69]

you could tell when you first use it. 2% would mean you could use it 50 times before you're near death.  reaver is good snowballing low level games.  just once the difficulty goes up rampage can't save you.

[Stinja]

I have seven bars of health. ... My health is now at three bars of health after the five attacks. ... two complete bars of life is lost after five dragon rage attacks.

 

So each attack from dragon rage is doing more like around 5-6% of damage to my health per attack.

Yes it definitely takes way more than 2%, ... There's no universe where I could use 50 dragon rage attacks before killing myself 

 

 

I thought i'd try this out;  so yes basic maths means 2% x 50 attacks = all life.  

My Reaver has 8 bars, so about 12% of life/bar.  1 Dragon Rage should be under 1/5th of a bar.

 

Foolishly i thought i'd just spam attacks right at the start, but you lose no life if not hitting an enemy (good to know, those pots are going to suffer now!) saying that, i noticed killing a single swordsman could take almost one bar of health!  Maybe 2/5ths of a bar, sometimes 4/5ths?

So each attack is about 5% health loss.

One possibility is Dragon Rage counts as dual-wielding, and incorrectly is counting as two attacks per swing?  so a single DR = two drains.

 

Now the really interesting thing is i noticed vs a single enemy, is i could kill him with one attack, but a second attack would hit his corpse as it's falling, and consume life.  He's dead from the first attack, so the second is draining for no reason (see point above, about attacking air does not lose life).

This was solo, so i can imagine online with lag could make this even worse, with 2/3/4 hits registering as "attacks", and draining life.

If the game considers the enemy dead from the first swing, then you spend health, while not regaining any.  Yeah i know that makes no sense, but it could be dead target vs allowed target, and each is a different state, and calculated differently.

 

tl;dr  So the glitch could be air-swings draining when they should not.

 

...  because reaver is already very op.

 

 

<sigh>  If everyone is "OP" then surely nothing is?

 

I hope they don't nerf the "OP" stuff, there's going to be nothing left...  Reaver, Elementalist, Necro, AW, Lego, Keeper.  Anyway, thats another discussion...  see tl;dr above, nerf incorrect stats please.

[Azrus]

Now the really interesting thing is i noticed vs a single enemy, is i could kill him with one attack, but a second attack would hit his corpse as it's falling, and consume life.  He's dead from the first attack, so the second is draining for no reason (see point above, about attacking air does not lose life).

This was solo, so i can imagine online with lag could make this even worse, with 2/3/4 hits registering as "attacks", and draining life.

If the game considers the enemy dead from the first swing, then you spend health, while not regaining any.  Yeah i know that makes no sense, but it could be dead target vs allowed target, and each is a different state, and calculated differently.

 

tl;dr  So the glitch could be air-swings draining when they should not.

Yeah, I've noticed this as well.  The tradeoff though is that it works with Devour, so lets you leech a bit of HP through that.  I can't say for certain, but I'm fairly sure I've restored HP when striking a corpse right after death while Rampage was up as well.  So... I figured the net benefit was greater than the loss, haha.

[21T09]

snip

 

A lot of good points. I think that rampage is bugged the same way, as it gives back much more life than the tooltip indicates.

[Vishimtar]

I thought i'd try this out;  so yes basic maths means 2% x 50 attacks = all life.  

My Reaver has 8 bars, so about 12% of life/bar.  1 Dragon Rage should be under 1/5th of a bar.

 

Foolishly i thought i'd just spam attacks right at the start, but you lose no life if not hitting an enemy (good to know, those pots are going to suffer now!) saying that, i noticed killing a single swordsman could take almost one bar of health!  Maybe 2/5ths of a bar, sometimes 4/5ths?

So each attack is about 5% health loss.

One possibility is Dragon Rage counts as dual-wielding, and incorrectly is counting as two attacks per swing?  so a single DR = two drains.

 

Now the really interesting thing is i noticed vs a single enemy, is i could kill him with one attack, but a second attack would hit his corpse as it's falling, and consume life.  He's dead from the first attack, so the second is draining for no reason (see point above, about attacking air does not lose life).

This was solo, so i can imagine online with lag could make this even worse, with 2/3/4 hits registering as "attacks", and draining life.

If the game considers the enemy dead from the first swing, then you spend health, while not regaining any.  Yeah i know that makes no sense, but it could be dead target vs allowed target, and each is a different state, and calculated differently.

 

tl;dr  So the glitch could be air-swings draining when they should not.

 

 

 

<sigh>  If everyone is "OP" then surely nothing is?

 

I hope they don't nerf the "OP" stuff, there's going to be nothing left...  Reaver, Elementalist, Necro, AW, Lego, Keeper.  Anyway, thats another discussion...  see tl;dr above, nerf incorrect stats please.

 

There are different degrees of OP to be sure, and reaver is at the apex.  Like how in mythology you have the minor gods, the lesser gods, the major gods and the titans, well reaver is whatever lords over whatever lords over the titans.

[golyoscsapagy]

A lot of good points. I think that rampage is bugged the same way, as it gives back much more life than the tooltip indicates.

Why? Rampage gives 10% life leech. You will have 600-700 hp or so, and with a semi-decent weapon you will hit for 1k at least. That's 100 hp returned or 14-16% of your total life.

 

About OPness: I don't know if reaver is OP or not. But even on perilous I can kill the demon commander alone before it can kill our tank. Which is quite ridiculous.

[21T09]

Why? Rampage gives 10% life leech. You will have 600-700 hp or so, and with a semi-decent weapon you will hit for 1k at least. That's 100 hp returned or 14-16% of your total life.

 

 

Because my understanding skills are sometimes limited. I read the tooltip as 10% of your own health. Which is obviously not what other people read! My bad.

[Azrus]

Why? Rampage gives 10% life leech. You will have 600-700 hp or so, and with a semi-decent weapon you will hit for 1k at least. That's 100 hp returned or 14-16% of your total life.

 

About OPness: I don't know if reaver is OP or not. But even on perilous I can kill the demon commander alone before it can kill our tank. Which is quite ridiculous.

In practice however, it looks like Rampage is granting upwards of 30-40% HP per strike.  Maybe that's intentional, maybe it isn't.  The tooltip isn't particularly clear on how the regen is supposed to work, and there isn't any real info on attributes in MP, so it could very well be there's another element in play here.  I'll be disappointed if the heal amount gets reduced though, I like where it's at right now.  Of course, I'm also pretty biased.

[golyoscsapagy]

In practice however, it looks like Rampage is granting upwards of 30-40% HP per strike.  Maybe that's intentional, maybe it isn't.  The tooltip isn't particularly clear on how the regen is supposed to work, and there isn't any real info on attributes in MP, so it could very well be there's another element in play here.  I'll be disappointed if the heal amount gets reduced though, I like where it's at right now.  Of course, I'm also pretty biased.

I usually check my own hp with a friend - we go into a private match, I die and then I can click on my corpse and check the hp value. Maybe there's an easier way, but I didn't see it indicated anywhere.

 

And I get full hp (meaning about 80% bar or something, I don't start in red) in about a full cycle of dragon rage. I hit for 1500, which is 6k damage give or take a bit - that's why I said my experiences are in line with the assumption that the 10% means lifedrain not 10% hp healed on hit.

 

That's why I also think that dragon rage costs 2% of damage dealt hp. When you hit for 1500, that's 30 hp or about 5% of your total. Which is also in line with my experiences.

 

Dragon rage is obviously a bug - probably the guy responsible used a wrong variable. The latter I think works as intended (according to both tooltips).

 

Still - from a balancing perspective I'm not exactly sure if they should fix it. First you can recycle your rampage due to 1s CD reduction on crit + warhorn pretty fast making the higher drain on your hp bar manageable. If dragon rage suddenly would start to deal less self damage my survivalibility would scyrocket as I wouldn't need to include devour and regular weapon hits. And when you can spam dragon rage for 1,5k per hit 24/7 that's not exactly balanced (obviously I'm biased, and would like that, but in the long run that would kill the diversity in the game).

[Dre G Writer]

In practice however, it looks like Rampage is granting upwards of 30-40% HP per strike.  Maybe that's intentional, maybe it isn't.  The tooltip isn't particularly clear on how the regen is supposed to work, and there isn't any real info on attributes in MP, so it could very well be there's another element in play here.  I'll be disappointed if the heal amount gets reduced though, I like where it's at right now.  Of course, I'm also pretty biased.

 

Nah, its definitely life steal.

That attack heals you based on how much damage your doing. With dragon rage already doing like 200% of your weapon damage, with having such high crit chance, and rampage adding even more damage percentage, your going to be getting lots of spike damage.

 

The health that's receive isn't consistent, so it can't be a flat rate.

When getting a crit, thats when the health goes up a lot, if you were to look closely at when you do a crit.

 

Then dragon rage can hit multiple enemies so thats even more health.

I always notice I dont get as much health, attacking a single target than I do attacking a group of enemies.

 

The rampage in single player also gives more inside on how the skill works.

[Azrus]

That's why I also think that dragon rage costs 2% of damage dealt hp. When you hit for 1500, that's 30 hp or about 5% of your total. Which is also in line with my experiences.

If it dealt 2% damage dealt, you'd see the cost of Dragon-rage be virtually non-existent with low damage weapons.  That's not the case though, so I really don't think its cost is related to the damage you deal.

 

 

Nah, its definitely life steal.

That attack heals you based on how much damage your doing. With dragon rage already doing like 200% of your weapon damage, with having such high crit chance, and rampage adding even more damage percentage, your going to be getting lots of spike damage.

 

The health that's receive isn't consistent, so it can't be a flat rate.

When getting a crit, thats when the health goes up a lot, if you were to look closely at when you do a crit.

 

Then dragon rage can hit multiple enemies so thats even more health.

I always notice I dont get as much health, attacking a single target than I do attacking a group of enemies.

 

The rampage in single player also gives more inside on how the skill works.

This is true.  However, even attacking a single target, the amount of HP gained doesn't seem to be in line with 10% life steal.  I haven't done any actual testing on it, and all I've got to go off of is my experiences so far.  Based on those experiences, I'm gaining significantly more HP per strike than 10% life steal should be granting.

 

Honestly, it'd be nice if a couple people could test it out.  Have one player die and spectate, then record both damage per strike, and change in health.  That way we could get a solid figure on what the heal percentage is.

[Chaz Darkbane]

With Rampage up is really doesn't matter.

[golyoscsapagy]

If it dealt 2% damage dealt, you'd see the cost of Dragon-rage be virtually non-existent with low damage weapons.  That's not the case though, so I really don't think its cost is related to the damage you deal.

Good point, I will give it a try when I get home. I got a really good blue sword in my first chest, and wasn't touching anything else, so I didn't factor weapon in. I'll post on my findings later on.

[JoshRainf]

I'm glad im not the only one who noticed this. nice post. 

[Dre G Writer]

If it dealt 2% damage dealt, you'd see the cost of Dragon-rage be virtually non-existent with low damage weapons.  That's not the case though, so I really don't think its cost is related to the damage you deal.

 

 

This is true.  However, even attacking a single target, the amount of HP gained doesn't seem to be in line with 10% life steal.  I haven't done any actual testing on it, and all I've got to go off of is my experiences so far.  Based on those experiences, I'm gaining significantly more HP per strike than 10% life steal should be granting.

 

Honestly, it'd be nice if a couple people could test it out.  Have one player die and spectate, then record both damage per strike, and change in health.  That way we could get a solid figure on what the heal percentage is.

 

I agree, that it does indeed does more than 10% of life steal though. It seems as if the values for damage, period, from a lot of the reavers attacks been increased beyond what the descriptions says.

 

So either the tips are wrong or the damage values are wrong.

 

But I see in the next patch or patch after, some chances to the reaver are coming, good or bad.

Personally Im good where its at. As long as dragon rage gives me a lot of health when rampage is up, the damage received from dragon rage is pretty moot.

 

But I see a lot of people gonna be mad when those changes to the reaver comes.

 

One thing i don't like about balancing, is developers would rather take away from the popular options, instead of giving the less popular options something new to make players want to try them. Bring the less popular options up to the standards of the popular options.

 

But that requires more work, so that is not an option to them. It sucks that is the way things work out.

[veramis]

 

One thing i don't like about balancing, is developers would rather take away from the popular options, instead of giving the less popular options something new to make players want to try them. Bring the less popular options up to the standards of the popular options.

 

But that requires more work, so that is not an option to them. It sucks that is the way things work out.

 

Imo, direct or indirect nerfs should always occur to address players streamrolling through game content. Do we really want to buff up warriors and dagger rogues to be as OP as mages and archers? Sorry, but after seeing mage/archer teams speed running through perilous with the same boring strategy of spamming abilities and auto attacks into the general direction of the next room, the last thing I want is to see more classes plow through mobs so easily with almost no need for strategy or being worried about where mobs are so as to avoid dying. I love playing block and slash 2hander and assassin, even though they are pretty bad compared to mages/archers. The reason why I love playing them so much is because it's not just nuke nuke nuke blargh loot, you actually have to pay some attention to your enemies, see when they block, when they attack, move around them, parry, etc., but all of this doesn't matter when it is much better to just nuke or pewpew from a distance.

 

Like many RPG games, DA3MP suffers from AoE CC and DPS being king at end game. Just move the camera to face the next room, press a button or two to CC the crap out of your enemies, a few buttons for nuke nuke nuke or pew pew pew, loot, move on to the next room and repeat the same process again. Many people who enjoy cheese would be against direct nerfs, but creating new enemies which are magic resistant, ranged resistant, melee vulnerable, CC resistant, and/or making lieutenant mobs more common, would indirectly nerf mages in a way that most people will see as simply increased challenge that requires new strategies (getting warriors and archers)  and not necessarily as an attack on their cheesy mages.

[hong]

I played ME3MP for two and a half years. That's more than 2% of my life.