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Here Lies the Abyss (A What If Possibility) *spoilers*


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#1
Arisugawa

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*SPOILERS. Continue at your own risk*

 

I'm actually very curious if the writing team ever considered these possibilties.

 

1) If the Warden from Origins is still alive, having Hawke's Warden contact be that character.

2) If the Hawke sibling is a Warden, having Bethany or Carver be the contact.

 

My heart fears how I might have reacted given those choices instead of the how the story places out.

 

Sacrifice your Warden or your Hawke? Tough on the player.

Sacrifice your Hawke or their sibling? Tough on the survivor regardless.

 

Either way, the choice would have been more difficult than that of Stroud or Loghain, in my opinion. Alistair obviously has some weight to him, but....

 

I'm glad I did not have to make those choices.


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#2
witchknights

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.... dude, i can only imagine the absolute slapfight that would take place if Hawke and Carver were in the fade. wouldn't be a choice i'd want to make, but i love carver's crap attitude too much to not want to know how he'd react to someone having to die a big damn shining hero.


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#3
Battlebloodmage

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I would sacrifice Hawke to save his brother without a problem. That's what my Hawke would want. Despite how much Carver hated his guts, Hawke loves his brother.

I don't really care who die between hawke or the Warden. They're just an extension of myself when I play, so I probably just gonna do innie minnie miney moe. 



#4
dgcatanisiri

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Honestly, I would have preferred that option any day. I don't care about Stroud - hell, until Inquisition made it difficult to reconcile (though I still intend to try to whack it into place), I had headcanons of Hawke hating Stroud. They saw him as, though saving Carver's life (never having made Bethany a Warden), an ass - they met on two occasions, one where he pretty much had to be brow-beaten into accepting Carver into the Wardens, the other where he refuses to stick around and do something about the bloody qunari invasion.

 

At least if it were Carver/Bethany, it'd actually FEEL like I'm sacrificing someone I care about. With Stroud, it's just 'good riddance to you and your mustache.'



#5
ZipZap2000

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I'd still sacrifice hawke but it would add some weight to the decision.



#6
Dermain

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Honestly, I would have preferred that option any day. I don't care about Stroud - hell, until Inquisition made it difficult to reconcile (though I still intend to try to whack it into place), I had headcanons of Hawke hating Stroud. They saw him as, though saving Carver's life (never having made Bethany a Warden), an ass - they met on two occasions, one where he pretty much had to be brow-beaten into accepting Carver into the Wardens, the other where he refuses to stick around and do something about the bloody qunari invasion.

 

At least if it were Carver/Bethany, it'd actually FEEL like I'm sacrificing someone I care about. With Stroud, it's just 'good riddance to you and your mustache.'

 

But it was an awesome mustache!!!

 

Spoiler



#7
Wolfen09

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since i always put alistair and anora on the throne and kill loghain, stroud is default.  But yeah, im choosing hawke to live over stroud any day.  this crap is payback for being a dick in the deep roads and being an even bigger dick during the qunari invasion.  So yeah, you've got a lot of makeup work to do buddy.

 

As for choosing between hero of ferelden and hawke, id choose hero any day....  the only thing that would probably make me hesitate 1 second longer would be how sad merril would get if hawke is gone.

 

As for the sibling.... sorry bethany or carver, im sending hawke into a darker depression by having you stay behind.



#8
LadyLaLa

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Yeah, I agree. It'd be a lot harder to pick between Hawke and Bethany/Carver/HoF vs Hawk and Stroud. I get why he was brusque when you meet him in 2; Duncan says to a Dalish HoF that they don't accept recruits just to save a life, and if the Wardens were busy, it's not really their job to interfere with politics, as it would have ended up with the Qunari in Kirkwall. But the thing that makes Stroud so, well, disposable, is that you don't get to know him, you have no emotional attachment to him AT ALL. He's just an NPC with Riordan's voice and great facial hair.

 

Just a thought, tho, when you make that choice, it only says that whoever is left behind will "likely die". Wouldn't it be awesome if there's a rescue mission in a DLC? Someone sees Hawke/Riordan/Alistair/Loghain in the Fade and the Inquisitor is asked by a friend or loved one of the one trapped to go rescue him/her.



#9
Baaleos

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Think the hero of fereldan does have a non-seen cameo
Spoiler

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#10
LadyLaLa

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Think the hero of fereldan does have a non-seen cameo

Spoiler

No sir, you are not mistaken. I believe it varies based on your HoF's origin and the origin of your Inquisitor. My Dalish HoF had some reassurances for my Elf Inquisitor, I remember that



#11
Mr.House

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I disagree, the choice between Loghain or Hawke was very hard for me.



#12
Milan92

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I disagree, the choice between Loghain or Hawke was very hard for me.

 

It was thankfully easy for me since it was simply a question of doing some math :P

 

I also wanted Loghain to have an heroic sacrifice.

 

I did miss him though afterwards :(



#13
Tootles FTW

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Wow.  Your suggestion of Hawke and Carver actually...that gave me a feel.  I would be very hard-pressed to send Carver to his death, I love that annoying little sh!t.



#14
Mr.House

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It was thankfully easy for me since it was simply a question of doing some math :P

 

I also wanted Loghain to have an heroic sacrifice.

 

I did miss him though afterwards :(

:(



#15
Dave of Canada

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I disagree, the choice between Loghain or Hawke was very hard for me.

 

Easy choice with a hard impact.

 

When Hawke's family theme starts playing after leaving Hawke in the fade, I was a bit sad.



#16
sch1986

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Hawke vs. HoF - didn't connect as much with the HOF as I did with sarcastic Hawke. What would hurt most about this decision is knowing Alistair had lost his Queen.

Hawke vs. Carver - kudos to you for thinking of this. It's an interesting choice but sorry Carver you gotsta go.

Hawke vs. Bethany - Bethany gets sacrificed.

Hawke vs. Alistair - I'm considering importing a keep save just so I can play one last mission with Alistair then ending the game before I have to choose and never finishing.

Hawke vs. Stroud - When I first heard about this choice I thought: no brainer, mustache is getting sacrificed. Then when I get to the actual choice I struggled with it more than I thought I would. Hawke just kept BLATANTLY pointing out how badly she effed up and I started thinking it hardly seemed fair to send mustache in her place. If it wasn't for the heart breaking scene with Varric afterwards I might have actually considered sacrificing Hawke. But in the end: bye mustache!

Hawke vs Loghain - Loghain will never ever live long enough to sacrifice to this demon.

#17
movieguyabw

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Personally, I would be rather upset if I had to choose between my Warden and Hawke, and the Hawke/sibling choice would've been downright cruel. I'm glad neither are an option. Alistair/Hawke was tough enough for me. lol

#18
rpgfan321

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Eh, Carver or Bethany wouldn't be the senior Grey Warden at the time of the game. It made sense per Grey Warden hierarchy to have Alistair/Stroud/Loghain to be placeholders to me. However, as for emotional value, yeah having them next to their older sibling would had more impact. 



#19
Arisugawa

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Just a thought, tho, when you make that choice, it only says that whoever is left behind will "likely die". Wouldn't it be awesome if there's a rescue mission in a DLC? Someone sees Hawke/Riordan/Alistair/Loghain in the Fade and the Inquisitor is asked by a friend or loved one of the one trapped to go rescue him/her.

 

I caught that, as well. I figure it was probably to make the choice more ambiguous than "Save Ashley / Save Kaidan." As it is, though, anything is possible. I can't imagine purchasing an entire DLC for the purpose of saving Mr. Moustache, myself, since it is unlikely I'll have too many playthroughs where Hawke or Alistair are left behind.

 

 

Eh, Carver or Bethany wouldn't be the senior Grey Warden at the time of the game. It made sense per Grey Warden hierarchy to have Alistair/Stroud/Loghain to be placeholders to me. However, as for emotional value, yeah having them next to their older sibling would had more impact. 

 

But the story doesn't have to demand that Hawke's contact be a Senior Grey Warden. All it demands is that Hawke have a contact within the Wardens with some knowledge of Corypheus. Both Bethany and Carver could have been present during the events of Legacy, and both of them would have reason to do further research of what occured there. So long as they have something to bring to the table, Hawke has reason to contact them.

 

The dialogue post-mission would not have to be dependant upon a Senior Warden being left behind, either. It could be assumed that the Senior Wardens all died at Adamant, or were not present to witness it.



#20
LadyLaLa

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I caught that, as well. I figure it was probably to make the choice more ambiguous than "Save Ashley / Save Kaidan." As it is, though, anything is possible. I can't imagine purchasing an entire DLC for the purpose of saving Mr. Moustache, myself, since it is unlikely I'll have too many playthroughs where Hawke or Alistair are left behind.

Oh of course not the whole DLC, just a mission in one. Get a letter from someone close to the one left behind (Anora-Teagan or HoF-Hawke's LI/Sibling or Gamlen, depending on circumstances) and go off as part of it. An adventure in the Fade would be fun if done right



#21
schulz100

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So, wait, Hawke's Warden siblings AREN'T his Warden contact if Bethany or Carver are Wardens?

What the actual ****?

 

For one thing, having his/her little brother or sister as the amicable contact willing to divulge Warden secrets and with whom he has a steady friendship is infinitely more believable than Stroud, who a Hawke without a sibling in the Wardens met a grand total of ONCE in-game. I guess they could have ran into each other in the ensuing post-game, but they seem a bit too angry-chummy with each other for how little they ever actually met on-screen in-game. Stroud as the contact and Warden pal makes a bit more sense if Carver or Bethany is a Warden, because there's a much deeper personal connection there between Hawke and Stroud; they met in trying circumstances and know someone who is, by all accounts, an outstanding Warden, but still. You don't go to just a guy you know if you also have a close sibling you can go to who knows literally more than the guy does, because they were with you when you fought the ancient darkspawn magister in a secret prison their father helped secure.

 

For another thing, it would add such a great degree of tension and drama to everything that happens in the Fade. I could totally see Carver giving Hawke **** for helping start the mage rebellion, and I could easily see a Warden Bethany doing the same thing. But it would also make the moment of choosing who has to stay and fight the Lovecraft-Spider that much more affecting, because we're not choosing between an adored PC and that one guy who showed up once or twice, literally within those specific numeric boundaries, and has a rockin' mustache and accent. We're choosing between siblings, both of whom we've played an entire game with (if you got or watched the DLCs that let them get in after Act 1), and who have great potential as heroes and lives to live for, such as they are.

 

Also, Hawke telling Carver to help the Wardens come back from accidentally almost becoming Corypheus's pawns is a great way to further their own relationship; A Warden Carver will come back to Kirkwall to help Hawke, but here Hawke is putting a heretofore unparalleled level of trust in his/her younger brother, saying without question he can do something that Hawke cannot, that he has a responsibility Hawke cannot possibly assume or overshadow, the one thing Carver always kind of wanted to be acknowledged for. It's just that that moment comes when their lives are irrevocably on the line.

Admittedly, Carver gets more story-awesomeness out being the Warden contact than Bethany does (there was never a huge amount of animosity between Hawke and Bethany, even if Bethany becomes a Warden. Or at least, it was never quite to the extent it was between Hawke and Carver, and it seemed like Bethany got over hers fairly quickly; Carver's getting over the tension between him and Hawke is a story that lasts the whole game by comparison, whereas Bethany gets angry and gets better within the space of the last act).



#22
LadyLaLa

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I just thought about this, and as an older sibling, if crazy stuff like this was going on, I'd want my younger siblings as far away as possible. Isn't it stated in game that Bethany or Carver was sent off, to keep them safe? That sounds like something an actual older sibling would do



#23
Dave of Canada

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So, wait, Hawke's Warden siblings AREN'T his Warden contact if Bethany or Carver are Wardens?

What the actual ****?

 

Could be interpreted many other ways.

 

In one sense, Carver/Bethany can imagine Corypheus dead just like Hawke and Varric did.

In the other, Hawke didn't want Carver/Bethany to risk getting brainwashed. After all, there's talks about how Hawke used Aveline to send them away from Orlais.



#24
sch1986

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I just thought about this, and as an older sibling, if crazy stuff like this was going on, I'd want my younger siblings as far away as possible. Isn't it stated in game that Bethany or Carver was sent off, to keep them safe? That sounds like something an actual older sibling would do


Yeah- this seems most logical to me. If they are alive I can't imagine Hawke would have them come on the basis of danger alone.

#25
LadyLaLa

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Yeah- this seems most logical to me. If they are alive I can't imagine Hawke would have them come on the basis of danger alone.

Exactly. Besides, it'd be so out of character for Hawke, I'm sure it'd end up pissing more than a few fans off, including myself. After all, aside from Gamlen (who, as Carver so wonderfully said, "can go suck an egg") their sibling is their only surviving family. Hawke may be many things to many people, but not reckless with his/her family