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[Chernaya]

-snip of awesome-

 

holy crap, ilu. 

[Colonelkillabee]

I wonder... am I alone when I say that Cassandra's actually my new favorite, even over Morrigan?

 

And that says a lot considering with Morrigan, there's a lot more to talk about story wise, and that was actually a complaint that I had. That this time around, the females had a lot more to talk about story wise with their romance options, Solas and Blackwall.

 

But even so, I just love Cassandra to death. Her personality is deep, her background is deep, detailed, her facial expressions are perfect... I can't help but love her. And the pacing compared to previous games is so much better for her romance, plus the heart wrenching choice of Divine thing.

 

Cassandra's my girl. Her scar and tom boy thing doesn't bother me at all. I like it. Tough women are much sexier than bimbos like leliana.

[JAZZ_LEG3ND]

Morrigan walks around wearing pretty much nothing.

How can you argue that is not oversexualised?

Over sexualised? Maybe not, but she was designed to show some skin, for sure. But I don't see that as a problem. Without context, sexualisation of any character, male or female, shouldn’t be seen as a problem. It’s when we start building up the layers that we can come to a conclusion.

Who is this character?
What's their story?
Where do they come from?
What do they accomplish?

When you start answering these questions and discover the character is a hollow sex object, then you've discovered a problem. But that is not Morrigan.

[Ser Pounce A Lot_]

Well, that’s because what you’re using against me isn’t logic, nor was it ever employed by me.

What Bioware wanted to aim for was fairness, not necessarily in Inquisition, but try to make a reasonable statement about the status-quo. The only thing they had to do was, as I said, provide the expected two options per sexual orientation, and they did that, and did it well.

The extra romances available to straight female Inquisitors have no effect on what Bioware had already decided to do with the allotted two per gender thing. This was extra development, and they saw fit to obligate themselves to, as I said, balance the status-quo a little bit.

Asymmetrical numbers aren’t a problem in and of themselves, but Mass Effect 3 had an issue in how it handled things because choices from past games were deliberately invalidated by plot: Jacob and Thane. Garrus was locked in at ME2. That’s one vs four exclusive options, and he wasn’t even human.

This is pretty elementary stuff, I don’t know why you’re choking on it.


Oh my god, get away from me with that nonsense. If you want to look at the dictionary definition, sure, I’m a feminist, I’m for gender equality, but don’t you dare make presumptions about what I think because you can’t comprehend a female character existing for reasons other than your gaze. Get over yourself.

I’ve never once said I have a problem with female characters being overtly sexy. I’m a straight guy, I like it; I’m predictable like that. At the same time, I don’t require it in order to appreciate a woman as a person, or find her attractive. Inquisition rather casually brings up Cassandra’s underwear—she doesn’t wear any—and there’s definitely nothing wrong with the size of her breasts. She's a woman, a striking one, and the game encourages you to think about her sexuality. That you can't is no fault of the games.

“You people”, that’s cute.

 

Ok I may have engaged in some generalizations, assumptions, and projections, and I apologize for that (I see that so often around here it might be contagious ) I just strongly reject the two ideas that a female being well endowed and showing some skin makes them sex objects, and that males that don't enjoy the two romances in the game and complain about them are entitled man-children.

[JAZZ_LEG3ND]

Ok I may have engaged in some generalizations, assumptions, and projections, and I apologize for that (I see that so often around here it might be contagious ) I just strongly reject the two ideas that a female being well endowed and showing some skin makes them sex objects, and that males that don't enjoy the two romances in the game and complain about them are entitled man-children.

Apology accepted.

[Farangbaa]

Over sexualised? Maybe not, but she was designed to show some skin, for sure. But I don't see that as a problem. Without context, sexualisation of any character, male or female, shouldn’t be seen as a problem. It’s when we start building up the layers that we can come to a conclusion.

Who is this character?
What's their story?
Where do they come from?
What do they accomplish?

When you start answering these questions and discover the character is a hollow sex object, then you've discovered a problem. But that is not Morrigan.

None of those questions answer why the hell she's running around in something that would make a pimp blush.

[Rekkampum]

Over sexualised? Maybe not, but she was designed to show some skin, for sure. But I don't see that as a problem. Without context, sexualisation of any character, male or female, shouldn’t be seen as a problem. It’s when we start building up the layers that we can come to a conclusion.

Who is this character?
What's their story?
Where do they come from?
What do they accomplish?

When you start answering these questions and discover the character is a hollow sex object, then you've discovered a problem. But that is not Morrigan.

 
It's not that simple. Lara Croft is a great character with an awesome history, but it'd be willfully ignorant to think that her comically proportioned body wasn't a nerd's wet dream when she debuted.

[Hazegurl]

I actually don't consider Morrigan to be overly sexualized. Her attitude and demeanor far out weigh the clothes on her body. IDK, to me saying Morrigan is sexualized is like saying women on those National geographic shows are sexualized for walking around topless. Not saying Morrigan looks like them. lol!! But that she just isn't like other women who grew up in a society where you should be covered from neck to ankle. Her outfit is normal to me. I can't explain but I never got a sexualized vibe from her.

[JAZZ_LEG3ND]

None of those questions answer why the hell she's running around in something that would make a pimp blush.

They don't have to, that's not the point.

My questions were just examples, the point of the exercise is to determine whether the character is more than their appearance. Morrigan is definitely more than her appearance.

Her choice of clothing, or lack thereof, is… well, as she would say: T'is business not of yours.

It's not that simple. Lara Croft is a great character with an awesome history, but it'd be willfully ignorant to think that her comically proportioned body wasn't a nerd's wet dream when she debuted.

Not disputing that, but it would also be wilfully ignorant to assume nerd’s don’t have wet dreams anyway. I feel bad for the nerds, always on the arse end of this stick.

Anyway, point is, we can decide that Lara Croft was indecently presented on account of opposing a standard inspired by an actual body type. Or we could abandon such hypocritical endeavours and decide Lara Croft is just Lara Croft, a badass busty vixen. Boys and girls alike love her to bits, for various reasons… because she is more than her appearance.

[Ser Pounce A Lot_]

I actually don't consider Morrigan to be overly sexualized. Her attitude and demeanor far out weigh the clothes on her body. IDK, to me saying Morrigan is sexualized is like saying women on those National geographic shows are sexualized for walking around topless. Not saying Morrigan looks like them. lol!! But that she just isn't like other women who grew up in a society where you should be covered from neck to ankle. Her outfit is normal to me. I can't explain but I never got a sexualized vibe from her.

 

My thoughts exactly.

[Farangbaa]

I actually don't consider Morrigan to be overly sexualized. Her attitude and demeanor far out weigh the clothes on her body. IDK, to me saying Morrigan is sexualized is like saying women on those National geographic shows are sexualized for walking around topless. Not saying Morrigan looks like them. lol!! But that she just isn't like other women who grew up in a society where you should be covered from neck to ankle. Her outfit is normal to me. I can't explain but I never got a sexualized vibe from her.

Considering she's the only one in the game thats not fully clothed in an outside situation, she's gotta get ill at some point. That's why she's sexualised. In an environment where everyone else is clothed from toe to neck and not sweating his balls off, it's extremely odd to walk around in something like.. that... whatever it is.

[Rekkampum]

*snip*
Not disputing that, but it would also be wilfully ignorant to assume nerd’s don’t have wet dreams anyway. I feel bad for the nerds, always on the arse end of this stick.

Anyway, point is, we can decide that Lara Croft was indecently presented on account of opposing a standard inspired by an actual body type. Or we could abandon such hypocritical endeavours and decide Lara Croft is just Lara Croft, a badass busty vixen. Boys and girls alike love her to bits, for various reasons… because she is more than her appearance.

 

There's nothing hypocritical about pointing out an obvious and unrealistic standard that representations of women in the gaming industry have been held to. Not to mention one can literally navigate the evolution of her image throughout the years to mitigate that issue. But this is derailing the thread.

[JAZZ_LEG3ND]

There's nothing hypocritical about pointing out an obvious and unrealistic standard that representations of women in the gaming industry have been held to. Not to mention one can literally navigate the evolution of her image throughout the years to mitigate that issue. But this is derailing the thread.

Okay, look at it this way: when isolated from the ridiculous standard, Lara Croft's body is not a problem. It is simply an exaggerated form; exaggerated to be larger-than-life. Again, this is not a problem. No one hates on Greek statues.

The aspects defined by a problematic standard are not problems in and of themselves, the force creating the standard is the problem. I know this, because if you eliminated this particular problem—this repulsive standard—Lara Croft as we know her could, would, and should, remain unchanged.

It’s fantastic that this industry is taking deliberate steps towards rendering women as people, but let’s not let misguided principles tear down characters that millions hold dear, and call it progress.

[JAZZ_LEG3ND]

Brighten this day with some satire, Jim Sterling style.
 

[Hazegurl]

Considering she's the only one in the game thats not fully clothed in an outside situation, she's gotta get ill at some point. That's why she's sexualised. In an environment where everyone else is clothed from toe to neck and not sweating his balls off, it's extremely odd to walk around in something like.. that... whatever it is.

She's sexualized cause you see her that way. Being naked doesn't make a person sexual, they're just naked, no big deal. The human body itself isn't sexy unless you think of it that way. You can say you think her outfit is inappropriate for the environment. But that doesn't mean sex. Morrigan had made it clear multiple times that she cares nothing at all for everyday society so she is not going to walk around mimicking Queen Anora or something. The only time she did change her outfit was in the royal court because I'm sure she was made to. But once she left she was right back in the clothes she likes best.

[Farangbaa]

She's sexualized cause you see her that way. Being naked doesn't make a person sexual, they're just naked, no big deal. The human body itself isn't sexy unless you think of it that way. You can say you think her outfit is inappropriate for the environment. But that doesn't mean sex. Morrigan had made it clear multiple times that she cares nothing at all for everyday society so she is not going to walk around mimicking Queen Anora or something. The only time she did change her outfit was in the royal court because I'm sure she was made to. But once she left she was right back in the clothes she likes best.

She's going to be cold as hell. It has nothing to do with being dressed 'appropriately' for others, but being dressed appropriately for the weather.

Now if half the women in the game ran around in basically nothing while outside, I wouldn't make a big deal out of this. But everyone and their mom (pun intended, Flemeth) is fully clothed everywhere, outside. Morrigan is the only one who is pretty much naked.

And whaddaya know, you can romance her. And I totally did, but that's a little beside the point.

(this might be a personal pet peeve or something, because I spent like half the game wondering if Iron Bull wasn't getting cold in most areas of the game )

[Thiefy]

She's going to be cold as hell. It has nothing to do with being dressed 'appropriately' for others, but being dressed appropriately for the weather.

Now if half the women in the game ran around in basically nothing while outside, I wouldn't make a big deal out of this. But everyone and their mom (pun intended, Flemeth) is fully clothed everywhere, outside. Morrigan is the only one who is pretty much naked.

And whaddaya know, you can romance her. And I totally did, but that's a little beside the point.

You do realize that women can and are sexualized while being fully clothed, right?

 

I know someone was talking about one of the witcher games where a lady with red hair was making an "orgasm" face while still fully clothed - i consider that to be more sexualized than Morrigan's character model.

 

Saying a lack of clothes is what makes women sexualized is like saying a poster for self breast examinations is porn because boobs.

[MrMrPendragon]

I don't know why it's suddenly a bad thing for Morrigan to look all gorgeous. She doesn't seem like a tramp because of her cold and uncaring personality.

 

Something is "sexualized" only if one realizes it is sexualized. And I don't see Morrigan as someone who is sexualized to appeal to us gamers. She looks gorgeous, but it was the character that made her a good (the best) LI in the series.

[Super Drone]

I am curious to see what all this complaining will result in in the next game. Whether or not the devs ever acknowledge the complaints, I doubt they want to put up with more of them in 3-4 years.

 

The obvious thing I see happening, of course, is them dropping any "extra" romances to avoid the groups that are left out from complaining.

[Thiefy]

 

Something is "sexualized" only if one realizes it is sexualized. 

 

 

I don't think Morrigan is sexualized but I'm trying to wrap my head around this circular logic.

 

That's like saying Miranda's ass shot in ME2 was sexualized because it's sexy which is....evident.

 

I mean the only way it could be viewed otherwise was if she farted.

 

 

Which would have been hilarious in hindsight.

[Hazegurl]

She's going to be cold as hell. It has nothing to do with being dressed 'appropriately' for others, but being dressed appropriately for the weather.

Now if half the women in the game ran around in basically nothing while outside, I wouldn't make a big deal out of this. But everyone and their mom (pun intended, Flemeth) is fully clothed everywhere, outside. Morrigan is the only one who is pretty much naked.

And whaddaya know, you can romance her. And I totally did, but that's a little beside the point.

(this might be a personal pet peeve or something, because I spent like half the game wondering if Iron Bull wasn't getting cold in most areas of the game )

I think IB's muscles keep him warm. lol!

 

As for Morrigan, well, she is a witch. Who knows what sort of heating spells she has, and let's not forget the Inquisitor is running around cold mountainous Skyhold in PJs.

 

@Thief, Miranda's ass isn't sexy to straight women and gay men so it's subjective. I certainly didn't find her ass sexy. Now Kaidan's ass on the other hand....oh my goodness!

 

*If Miranda farted in one of those ass shots I would have died laughing. lol!

[Colonelkillabee]

The lack of enthusiasm here for Cassandra compared to the other options depresses me. Sigh. I was hoping to have more fun as a fan here, but I guess guys just don't squee, lol.

[Rake451]

The lack of enthusiasm here for Cassandra compared to the other options depresses me. Sigh. I was hoping to have more fun as a fan here, but I guess guys just don't squee, lol.

 

It was pretty damn enjoyable.

[Colonelkillabee]

Agreed. I love the expressions on her face so much, especially when she's struggling to express herself. I love that, getting past her toughness. And her being reluctant to "be courted" by you because you're the Herald of Andraste had to be the most adorable thing ever, lol. I just never expected that from her. Was fun to hear.