789 réponses à ce sujet

[Ascendra]

A simple solution to this in my eyes. Get rid of romance. Will people be upset by this? Yes. Will people leave over it? If romance is all they care about in these games then I suppose. But nowhere near the numbers that would actually damaage sales. I say this because the drama and the finger pointing at various groups who feel cheated by the lack of romance for their particular preference. It is a complaint that never seems to go away from these games and to be frank, its getting dreadfully old. People demand one thing for their specific group at the expense of other groups. It creates drama that can be avoided. I say just drop romance all together. People get dramatic and demanding and seem never satisfied with what they are given. It comes off as ungrateful to Bioware who takes the time to even tackle this topic. If people only demand more more and more I see little point in continuing on with romance in general.

Actually if people demand more and more that means the demand for romances is high. It would be worse if people did not demand, that means they dont care.

While the complaints about female characters are getting old I see nothing wrong with people wanting more. It only shows how passionate people are about this aspect of the game and how many losses there will be if romances will be dropped altogether. You dont like it, fine, dont pursue it. But dont try to prevent people that enjoy romances from getting something they really like.
Besides cutting something out is not a solution to a problem. Making it better and improving it - is.

[(Disgusted noise.)]

Actually if people demand more and more that means the demand for romances is high. It would be worse if people did not demand, that means they dont care.

While the complaints about female characters are getting old I see nothing wrong with people wanting more. It only shows how passionate people are about this aspect of the game and how many losses there will be if romances will be dropped altogether. You dont like it, fine, dont pursue it. But dont try to prevent people that enjoy romances from getting something they really like.
Cutting something out is not a solution to a problem. Making it better and improving it - is.

Also when you add the fact that romance is one of Bioware's signatures at this point and the fact that they're constantly being accused of limiting choices, this is definitely not the quick fix some people frame it as.

[CreepingShadow]

Definitely BioWare's fault you put not investment in getting to know a character. 

Except there really isn't much to know, Josephine reminds me a lot of Bethany in DA2 she's a complete sweetheart with plenty of nice interactions but has very little depth or character development. She's easily the least developed of Inquisition's 12 main characters.

 

As for Cassandra she's very interesting but for most people physically unappealing, she isn't ugly but she has very sharp refined features which makes her look very masculine.

[LOLandStuff]

I thought BSN is all about romance.

[MelissaGT]

While the complaints about female characters are getting old 

Ditto on this - I think being mad at Bioware for not catering to someone's needs cosmetically is pretty shallow. People's tastes vary so widely that there's no possible way everyone can be happy. I happen to think Cass is pretty, and if I ever roll a male quizzy, he will be with her.

 

Personally, I don't have a thing for Grizzly Adams, but that's not going to stop me from rolling a quizzy that romances Blackwall. I just lucked out that Cullen is right up my alley appearance-wise. I would think no less of Bioware if he looked different, however. 

[Bugsie]

I'm giving up my day job and setting up a pub within the forum.

First round on the house!

[Ascendra]

Ditto on this - I think being mad at Bioware for not catering to someone's needs cosmetically is pretty shallow. People's tastes vary so widely that there's no possible way everyone can be happy. I happen to think Cass is pretty, and if I ever roll a male quizzy, he will be with her.

Personally, I don't have a thing for Grizzly Adams, but that's not going to stop me from rolling a quizzy that romances Blackwall. I just lucked out that Cullen is right up my alley appearance-wise. I would think no less of Bioware if he looked different, however.

I wonder if the character's success appearance-wise depends a bit on how they are established in game and perceived by others. For example in DAO both Wynne and Leli comment on how pretty Morrigan is. She has this seductive aura. At the same time her face is actually not that well done - eyes too small. Or maybe its the cleavage that sold. Same thing with Leli. Yet people still find then gorgeous despite worse quality of their models. Then there is Miranda in ME which is considered a perfect woman. She has great body but her face is strange, and people love her. Appearance-wise Ash's face in ME1 is actually prettier, but people prefer Miranda over Ash. Is it because she is established by the game to be desirable?
In Inquisition the only person that gets a horde of admirers is Cullen, but funnily enough sometimes i find his character model rather weird. When they first revealed how he looked i was actually disappointed, but then he kind of grew on me. Yet he is considered universally good looking by many people on BSN.
So what if several ingame characters were swooning over Cass, if she was established as gorgeous? Do you think she would be perceived differently? And i think Josie does get an admirer eventually (not the one you have fight in her romance path).

[Sidney]

I'm glad someone else thought Miranda's face got....wierd at times.  For Morrigan and Leli the voices were huge in their attraction. Cass's voice is good but I'm not a fan of Josie's voice. Neither is as good as Leli or Morri though.

 

I think hair and clothes are a lot of it. The hair for Cass is ok but not terribly flattering even if it might be "practical". I was thinking for her romance she might literally let her hair down but no. Josie's hair is awful and looks glued to her head and greasy. A lot of that is the interior lighting she is usually seen in but a lot of it is just bioware and their hair issues in general.

 

Cass doesn't have any other look than warrior. She is a warrior but part of her romance is that she wants more than just that warrior-monk life. I think if there'd be a moment to show a softer side it might broaden her appeal. Josie looks...well not good in her clothes. Again, the clothes fit the character since that is the "fashion" but it won't change modern eyes seeing it look a bit unappealing. The elegant look on her Tarot card looks a lot better than the actual clothes.

 

I took the Cass romance and liked how it developed overall especially as an elven non-believer I thought that the ability to play out the romance down that path was very nice.

[CuriousArtemis]

The hair for Cass is ok but not terribly flattering even if it might be "practical". I was thinking for her romance she might literally let her hair down but no. Josie's hair is awful and looks glued to her head and greasy. A lot of that is the interior lighting she is usually seen in but a lot of it is just bioware and their hair issues in general.

 

I think both of them are exceptionally beautiful and their hairstyles definitely flatter their faces, but it's not an objective thing. 

 

For example, quite a few people think Dorian is absolutely gorgeous, but half the time I feel inclined to look away from the screen because his appearance displeases me THAT much lol 

 

My other option is Iron Bull. I say to the OP, think about that for a moment... how many threads have I made complaining about my PC's choices. Answer would be none  

 

I am unhappy about the disparity in choice, but I am not ungrateful to the team as a whole and acknowledge I was just unlucky this time. I've had Kaidan and Fenris in the past, so I tell myself I have no right to complain ^^

[Wee Joe Green]

I never quite got that - you're a man, she's a woman (or whatever) so why do you care that she would also have been interested if you had rolled a female character?

 

No I wasn't fussed by that.  In fact it would have helped if some characters were more 'freely inclined' (Like Sera!) But it didn't help for the male bi characters in opening the choices for my hetero male character, i.e. Bull.  That's what I meant by more same-sex and bi characters.  The options to my male human would obviously have expanded if he'd consider them, but doesn't help if looking for another female romance option.

[Wee Joe Green]

When someone states that they feel there's more options for gay characters, when there aren't, I post that to provide perspective.  It's not a motivator for why we do things, but rather the idea that "it may seem overstated because we're familiar with it being understated."  The fact is, there are not more gay romances than straight ones, so any perception that that is the case is simply incorrect.

 

You can find a quick overview of it here towards the end (as part of a larger article): http://www.pbs.org/s...rejudice/women/(Search for "Perceptions and Implications")

It's examined in Dale Spender's writings.  Learning to Lose: Sexism and Education

 

That said, the point of my statement was to have people self-reflect on why they feel something is inequitable when in fact it isn't.  Detailing a critical review of Dr. Spender's works is beyond the scope of this thread (and forum). If you wish to discuss it further then send me a PM.

 

As I tried to articulate above in a hastily typed response, is that I wasn't of the opinion that there were more options for the same sex camp, but for those that would consider this alternative.  Therefore if my male character wasn't solely interesting in pursuing a heterosexual relationship, then there would be more options available to him.

 

I suppose this is inevitable though once you introduce bisexual characters...

 

Anyways, it was a smart response and I think certainly reflective of how things really are.

[CreepingShadow]

To the above yeah the power of suggestion does have a lot to do with it, but attractiveness also comes from voice, personality, even the way a character moves influences how attractive people perceive them to be, it's not just the face.

 

(p.s. about Miranda, yeah while they completely botched Yvonne Strahovski's face, I doubt that's the part of Miranda very many people were looking at, and with all the camera shots highlighting Miranda's uh hum "assets" I don't think that's what the devs wanted you to notice either.)

[sH0tgUn jUliA]

Except there really isn't much to know, Josephine reminds me a lot of Bethany in DA2 she's a complete sweetheart with plenty of nice interactions but has very little depth or character development. She's easily the least developed of Inquisition's 12 main characters.

 

As for Cassandra she's very interesting but for most people physically unappealing, she isn't ugly but she has very sharp refined features which makes her look very masculine.

 

And combined with her personality, and that voice, are probably the reasons I'm attracted.

[Ascendra]

To the above yeah the power of suggestion does have a lot to do with it, but attractiveness also comes from voice, personality, even the way a character moves influences how attractive people perceive them to be, it's not just the face.

(p.s. about Miranda, yeah while they completely botched Yvonne Strahovski's face, I doubt that's the part of Miranda very many people were looking at, and with all the camera shots highlighting Miranda's uh hum "assets" I don't think that's what the devs wanted you to notice either.)

No of course not
I mentioned face because people are saying Cass is too masculine, high cheekbones etc. While Miranda's is actually worse imho. But obviously since she is supposed to be perfect in game all her conversations had shots of her charms, so her face was irrelevant.
I would argue that in DAO people dont even move, they just stand there but Morrigan does have this air of sexuality about her. I think its Claudia's awesome voice more than anything.

[daveliam]

No I wasn't fussed by that.  In fact it would have helped if some characters were more 'freely inclined' (Like Sera!) But it didn't help for the male bi characters in opening the choices for my hetero male character, i.e. Bull.  That's what I meant by more same-sex and bi characters.  The options to my male human would obviously have expanded if he'd consider them, but doesn't help if looking for another female romance option.

 

You know, you could have been the more 'freely inclined' one, right?  Go ahead, give it try.  It's how we convert people; through bisexual romance content in Bioware games.   Little known fact.

[Wee Joe Green]

I'm glad someone else thought Miranda's face got....wierd at times.  For Morrigan and Leli the voices were huge in their attraction. Cass's voice is good but I'm not a fan of Josie's voice. Neither is as good as Leli or Morri though.

 

Agreed.  Claudia Black (Morrigan's) voice is just dripping with sex appeal.  Cracking voice actor.

[Reaver102]

I must disagree with the title, Sera is amazing.

[Wee Joe Green]

You know, you could have been the more 'freely inclined' one, right?  Go ahead, give it try.  It's how we convert people; through bisexual romance content in Bioware games.   Little known fact.

 

Nah. Think I'll pass

[daveliam]

Nah. Think I'll pass

 

So will Sera

[MelissaGT]

I'm glad someone else thought Miranda's face got....wierd at times.  For Morrigan and Leli the voices were huge in their attraction. Cass's voice is good but I'm not a fan of Josie's voice. Neither is as good as Leli or Morri though.

 

I think hair and clothes are a lot of it. The hair for Cass is ok but not terribly flattering even if it might be "practical". I was thinking for her romance she might literally let her hair down but no. Josie's hair is awful and looks glued to her head and greasy. A lot of that is the interior lighting she is usually seen in but a lot of it is just bioware and their hair issues in general.

 

Cass doesn't have any other look than warrior. She is a warrior but part of her romance is that she wants more than just that warrior-monk life. I think if there'd be a moment to show a softer side it might broaden her appeal. Josie looks...well not good in her clothes. Again, the clothes fit the character since that is the "fashion" but it won't change modern eyes seeing it look a bit unappealing. The elegant look on her Tarot card looks a lot better than the actual clothes.

 

I took the Cass romance and liked how it developed overall especially as an elven non-believer I thought that the ability to play out the romance down that path was very nice.

To be honest, I thought Miranda's face was hideous, lol. Ash was way better looking. I'd even say Liara was more attractive. 

 

I think we see quite a bit of Cass's "softer side," even with a friendship arc. The whole scene with "Swords and Shields" was absolutely fabulous, and you can even joke around with her about writing love poetry. She's a true romantic at heart. 

[MelissaGT]

In Inquisition the only person that gets a horde of admirers is Cullen, but funnily enough sometimes i find his character model rather weird. 

Not counting body model (all body models are weird and disproportionate, imo), Cullen's face is great...at least to me. Then again, I am a fan of the slightly scruffy look...and that scar just adds something...

[Solas]

A simple solution to this in my eyes. Get rid of romance

This is a nonsensical solution. shoo

[Ascendra]

Not counting body model (all body models are weird and disproportionate, imo), Cullen's face is great...at least to me. Then again, I am a fan of the slightly scruffy look...and that scar just adds something...

Thats exactly the thing. Im also a fan of scruffy look but i was really disappointed in Cullen in the beginning. I do think he is good-looking now, after the game pointing it out to me. But what is especially weird is find Iron Bull attractive. Which in scary.

[Sidney]

Agreed.  Claudia Black (Morrigan's) voice is just dripping with sex appeal.  Cracking voice actor.

Frankly I could listen to Clauspdia Black read the phone book as Morrigan and be perfectly happy.

[Sidney]

To be honest, I thought Miranda's face was hideous, lol. Ash was way better looking. I'd even say Liara was more attractive. 
 
I think we see quite a bit of Cass's "softer side," even with a friendship arc. The whole scene with "Swords and Shields" was absolutely fabulous, and you can even joke around with her about writing love poetry. She's a true romantic at heart.

We see it in her character. We don't see it in her appearance which is always stern and that is something I can see being off putting.