781 réponses à ce sujet

[Darkstarr11]

The Warden would not have been able to defeat Corypheus. Had s/he tried, Cory would simply hijack that body and it's a wrap. In any case, there's no substitute for a massive infrastructure and forces at your command to tip the scales.

 

Yeah, that might be a slight...downside.  Hmmm...a thought...if Cory could body surf when he gets killed...could the Architect?  You know, if you wanted the guy, could he have jumped to one of the Wardens they experimented on?

 

Anywho, yeah that does negate...no, actually, that's worse.  The walking death wish that was the Warden...imagine how powerful Cory would have been if he got ahold of that body...ASSUMING that he actually used it instead of just turning back into himself, ya know?  

[Yaroub]

My warden is now probably drinking ale from the maker skull in the black city. no competition there.
Warden all the way.

[andy6915]

The Warden would not have been able to defeat Corypheus. Had s/he tried, Cory would simply hijack that body and it's a wrap. In any case, there's no substitute for a massive infrastructure and forces at your command to tip the scales.

 

True, be we didn't mean against a guy who's kyptonite against Wardens. This is in general.

 

Truly, I think who's strongest depends on the class. Rogue Warden is definitely better than rogue Hawke or rogue Herald, rogue Warden can have a 90% dodge rate and become completely invincible to magic and physical attacks and can backstab every enemy at once in a 20 foot radius. The Warden isn't as flashy, but they're just so raw skilled at being unhittable that it's ridiculous. Hawke for example will probably be shocked to fight an opponent who can actually dodge a from-stealth assassinate from behind, but the Warden can pull that off.

 

Warrior Warden is a bit sketchy. Sword and shield Warden and 2-handed-weapon Warden are definitely crap. Hawke and Herald are better at those styles. But... Warden has a style they don't, dual wielding 2 full sized weapons at once, with crowd control abilities like dual weapon sweep and whirlwind. And their power of blood combined with momentum gives them a very impressive attack speed for swinging longswords around. The ability to be a dual wield warrior could very well allow the warrior Warden to win.

 

Mage... Warden probably loses. Their rock armor stinks, no barrier, all they have is arcane warrior which is mostly just a weak auto attacker that likely couldn't stand up to the pure offensive power of Hawke and Herald. And both of them have dispel, which pretty much completely neuters the DAO arcane warrior. And the Warden's really powerful stuff won't help them, because Hawke and Herald would be fighting in close enough that any firestorms or fireballs or blizzards dropped by the Warden will hurt the Warden as much as their own opponents.

[Umaya]

If i know my warden well (i do), he is out there in the far west out of Thedas riding Dumat. Bringing the fury of gods upon every civilization out there.

So, Warden>the maker

Hawke>inquisitor

[Dyne-]

Interesting and really cool topic to think about. It seems that some people are answering one question ( who is stronger in single combat ) while others are comparing influence in addition to personal achievements. Given that there is no set standard for comparing the "power levels" of the enemies in each game, I can only compare the three based on what they can do and the implied strength of their enemies. ( Limited by my understanding / knowledge of the lore to boot :/ ). Or...someone could do a **** ton of math that I don't want to do at 6 am xD. So your question is [ Now the question: Is Ademon-allies, greater or lower than Cory1? And by how much? ]

 

I think you answered your own question in your post. Corypheus and his magisters worshipped the Old Gods, and during the final battle Corypheus appeals to Dumat for strength against Inky and crew. I think that right there provides enough evidence to conclude that the Archdemon is > Corypheus regardless of whether or not his power is split between him and his fake Archdemon. ( Assuming that Urthemiel and Dumat are = in power. )

 

In terms of single combat an argument could be made about it being class dependent, but that doesn't really apply to The Warden as much as it does to Hawke / Inquisitor. Feel free to correct me if i'm wrong in this, but it's my understanding that warriors in DA are not technically mages, but they still employ abilities that come close to being considered magic. Ex: Templars / Spirit Warriors / Reavers.

 

The simple fact that The Warden can be 4 of these at once + Power of blood slides the bar heavily in his favor. Even against a mage Inky or Hawke ( unless they had a terrain advantage ) it seems more likely that The Warden would cancel / resist the spell and trap them in an endless chain of CC... then simply place boot in ass. The only wild card I could come up with would be whether or not the inquisitor can instant cast his rift ability - as well as how effective is it against The Warden's Spirit Warrior abilities / Arcane Warrior abilities since both classes provide an absurd amount of physical / magical resistance. Personally, my Hawke's / Inquisitors wouldn't stand a chance. The Warden is just hilariously OP at this point in the DA universe.

 

Power wise according to your initial question and mathematics ----- Warden > Inquisitor > Hawke ( only because the Inquisitor had to contend with everything else Cory did up to that point, but mathematically Hawke should be before the Inquisitor )

 

Martial Prowess and overall fighting experience Warden > Hawke > Inquisitor

 

I didn't bother comparing enemies killed because this is already a wall of text. Any of the protags at their strongest could have killed the other's dragons / main enemies. The only thing being that Hawke / Inquis couldn't have slain the Archdemon since they aren't Grey Wardens, and The HoF couldn't have delivered the final blow to Corypheus because Corypheus would have proceeded to wear that ass as a meat suit. 

[Ariella]

If the Warden had failed, the Grey Wardens of other lands were ready to step in. Only reason why they didn't was because of Loghain. The archdemon would have died. The HoF gets kudos for limiting the damage, but considering who killed the Archdemon depends on play through, And unless you have the DR and a Cousland as co-sovereign the HoF's influence is a little more limited since many still don't believe the Blight actually happened.
 
Then there's Hawke, who is the avatar of Murphy's law. Or maybe the rough creature slouching toward Bethlehem to be born. The Champion of Kirkwall is loved and respected, hated and feared on both sides of the divide. Hell, people wanted to send an Exalted March after the Champion depending on alliances. You don't do that unless you truly fear someone, and that kind of level of fear is an indication of power and influence.

 

The Inquisitor seals the Breach, twice. Walks in the Fade twice and lives to tell the tale. Redeems either the mages or the templars. Influences the election of the Divine. Stabilizes the most powerful country in Thedas, and dictates who shall rule. And then there's Corpyheus.

 

And the only reason Hawke couldn't kill Corypheus was lack of knowledge not power and had no time to gain that knowledge, so that can't really be held against the Champion.

[Aren]

Warden King survived with a DR and even friend of the Architect and Avernus is ridiculously overpowered,he possess incredible knowledge regarding the darkspawn and even control an entire army which belongs to him, an army that is not momentary like the one of the Inquisition.

Not my personal ending ,i always use Loghain as the AD cake.

[TheKomandorShepard]

If the Warden had failed, the Grey Wardens of other lands were ready to step in. Only reason why they didn't was because of Loghain. The archdemon would have died. The HoF gets kudos for limiting the damage, but considering who killed the Archdemon depends on play through, And unless you have the DR and a Cousland as co-sovereign the HoF's influence is a little more limited since many still don't believe the Blight actually happened.
 
Then there's Hawke, who is the avatar of Murphy's law. Or maybe the rough creature slouching toward Bethlehem to be born. The Champion of Kirkwall is loved and respected, hated and feared on both sides of the divide. Hell, people wanted to send an Exalted March after the Champion depending on alliances. You don't do that unless you truly fear someone, and that kind of level of fear is an indication of power and influence.

 

The Inquisitor seals the Breach, twice. Walks in the Fade twice and lives to tell the tale. Redeems either the mages or the templars. Influences the election of the Divine. Stabilizes the most powerful country in Thedas, and dictates who shall rule. And then there's Corpyheus.

 

And the only reason Hawke couldn't kill Corypheus was lack of knowledge not power and had no time to gain that knowledge, so that can't really be held against the Champion.

Debatable as pretty much there is no way of knowing if they in fact would kill archdemon ,not to mention grey wardens already proved they don't live to their reputation as they get rekt one time after another also grey wardens killed all griffons and it would be first blight without them.

[JadeDragon]

Not to mention had The Warden failed Fereldan probably would have been lost to the darkspawn. Chronicles already canonly proved without the Warden the archdemon would have won the final battle. And by the time the other wardens got there the entire country would be swarming with darkspawn. The longer you take to kill a archdemon the more darkspawn are going to come to its call and build its army. eventually they may have won but at the lost of a entire country

[Aren]

 I genuinely believe that the Warden is at the top,because the character is build as being an godly murderer by the narrative.

The companions of DAO are there,but they do nothing, they do not ghater allies,they only follow the warden like a bunch of sheeps,this fortified (it's unrealistic i know) the idea that the Warden do not even need them to  do all that s/he accomplish especially in DAA with the intelligent disciples 

(see that the orlesian wardens fail badly even Kristoff,while the warden resolve the issue like a walk in the park).

In DAI the companions and advisors are more indipendent and they try to resolve the issue on their own or with the Inq help,it's more realistic.

[TammieAZ]

The Warden...

[Hadeedak]

Eh. I'm just going to vote my canon here. Which means the Warden is a dead dwarf. The new Warden is a fancy Orlesian mage who really just wants to do Warden things. She's also kind of terrible because I had no clue how to mage. So I pretty much drove Nathaniel and Justice and left her to her own devices in Awakening. She spent most of it dead while I enjoyed having a pet bear. Live and learn!

 

Hawke was left in the Fade, but if there's one protagonist I can imagine busting out of there, it's her. I love my canon Hawke. A lot. She's a sword and shield warrior who believes in the greater good and protecting people and law and order... And by the end of DA2, she was pretty much an immortal force of big sad eyes and guilt trips. But since she's in the Fade...

 

INQUISITOR WINS BY DEFAULT! She'd like to thank all her Carta brothers and sisters. And her companions, I guess.

 

Man, my protagonists die a lot. I blame an adolescence spent obsessed with the Arthurian cycle.

[Zlykebab]

Well, Inquisitor defeated to defeat Corypheus, the one of Seven first (and propably the most powerful) darkspawn using his/her Anchor, but the Warden was able to kill Architect, the other one of Seven without such powers. Corypheus wields an Orb of Destruction, which according to Solas gives him power of elven gods, so he could use this power against the Inquisitor and lost, Warden defeated Flemeth, who also was an elven god (oops, spoilers).

 

Warden is far more skilled using many kinds of weaponary than Inquisitor. Warrior-class Warden can use both-handed weapons, weapon and shield, dual wielding weapons, daggers and even bows or crossbows, while warrior-class Inquisitor can use only both-handed wielding weapons  or shield and weapon. Same about rougues. Plus, Warden can specialize in two of four (or even three of six, as Warden-commander) specializations, while Inquisitor can choose only one.

 

And I think the Archdemon is more powerful than the Red Lyrium Dragon and any other dragon killed by the Inquisitor. According to Wiki, Archdemons are far more intelligent than average dragons.

Hawke is here outmatched, one of his/her greatest feats is killing the Harvester, but Warden also killed such creature. Other of great feats of Champion is defeating Knight-Commander Meridith wielding swod with Red Lyrium idol. Idol was only a little piece of Red Lyrium. Inquisitor defeated numerous red templars and behemots, MADE of red lyrium and even a Red Lyrium dragon.

In the beginning of DA2, Hawke and his/her sibling was outmatched by darkspawn, and Warden and his/her three companions cut through the Ortan thaig, Caridin's cross and entire Dead trenches on their own...
At the end, I think the Warden is most powerful.

[Uccio]

True, be we didn't mean against a guy who's kyptonite against Wardens. This is in general.
 
Truly, I think who's strongest depends on the class. Rogue Warden is definitely better than rogue Hawke or rogue Herald, rogue Warden can have a 90% dodge rate and become completely invincible to magic and physical attacks and can backstab every enemy at once in a 20 foot radius. The Warden isn't as flashy, but they're just so raw skilled at being unhittable that it's ridiculous. Hawke for example will probably be shocked to fight an opponent who can actually dodge a from-stealth assassinate from behind, but the Warden can pull that off.
 
Warrior Warden is a bit sketchy. Sword and shield Warden and 2-handed-weapon Warden are definitely crap. Hawke and Herald are better at those styles. But... Warden has a style they don't, dual wielding 2 full sized weapons at once, with crowd control abilities like dual weapon sweep and whirlwind. And their power of blood combined with momentum gives them a very impressive attack speed for swinging longswords around. The ability to be a dual wield warrior could very well allow the warrior Warden to win.
 
Mage... Warden probably loses. Their rock armor stinks, no barrier, all they have is arcane warrior which is mostly just a weak auto attacker that likely couldn't stand up to the pure offensive power of Hawke and Herald. And both of them have dispel, which pretty much completely neuters the DAO arcane warrior. And the Warden's really powerful stuff won't help them, because Hawke and Herald would be fighting in close enough that any firestorms or fireballs or blizzards dropped by the Warden will hurt the Warden as much as their own opponents.

Mage Warden was quite the power house actually. Three different magic shields (atleast), fade step etc. My Mage Warden was the biggest and baddest of them all. And canon.

[KenpachiMayuri]

For me? Well, for me it is the Warden(s). I don't care whom has the Anchor or not etc. in my mind he/she is the strongest and yes it is because I love them so much. Don't try to convince me with "logical reasons", there is no such thing as logical reasons in RPGs for me.  

[Zlykebab]

Interesting and really cool topic to think about. It seems that some people are answering one question ( who is stronger in single combat ) while others are comparing influence in addition to personal achievements. Given that there is no set standard for comparing the "power levels" of the enemies in each game, I can only compare the three based on what they can do and the implied strength of their enemies. ( Limited by my understanding / knowledge of the lore to boot :/ ). Or...someone could do a **** ton of math that I don't want to do at 6 am xD. So your question is [ Now the question: Is Ademon-allies, greater or lower than Cory1? And by how much? ]

 

I think you answered your own question in your post. Corypheus and his magisters worshipped the Old Gods, and during the final battle Corypheus appeals to Dumat for strength against Inky and crew. I think that right there provides enough evidence to conclude that the Archdemon is > Corypheus regardless of whether or not his power is split between him and his fake Archdemon. ( Assuming that Urthemiel and Dumat are = in power. )

 

In terms of single combat an argument could be made about it being class dependent, but that doesn't really apply to The Warden as much as it does to Hawke / Inquisitor. Feel free to correct me if i'm wrong in this, but it's my understanding that warriors in DA are not technically mages, but they still employ abilities that come close to being considered magic. Ex: Templars / Spirit Warriors / Reavers.

 

The simple fact that The Warden can be 4 of these at once + Power of blood slides the bar heavily in his favor. Even against a mage Inky or Hawke ( unless they had a terrain advantage ) it seems more likely that The Warden would cancel / resist the spell and trap them in an endless chain of CC... then simply place boot in ass. The only wild card I could come up with would be whether or not the inquisitor can instant cast his rift ability - as well as how effective is it against The Warden's Spirit Warrior abilities / Arcane Warrior abilities since both classes provide an absurd amount of physical / magical resistance. Personally, my Hawke's / Inquisitors wouldn't stand a chance. The Warden is just hilariously OP at this point in the DA universe.

 

Power wise according to your initial question and mathematics ----- Warden > Inquisitor > Hawke ( only because the Inquisitor had to contend with everything else Cory did up to that point, but mathematically Hawke should be before the Inquisitor )

 

Martial Prowess and overall fighting experience Warden > Hawke > Inquisitor

 

I didn't bother comparing enemies killed because this is already a wall of text. Any of the protags at their strongest could have killed the other's dragons / main enemies. The only thing being that Hawke / Inquis couldn't have slain the Archdemon since they aren't Grey Wardens, and The HoF couldn't have delivered the final blow to Corypheus because Corypheus would have proceeded to wear that ass as a meat suit. 

Dumat and Urthemiel aren't same powerful, according to Warden's codex, Dumat was most powerful Archdemon, but that doesn't matter, I think.

Warden could kill Corypheus, s/he just have to kill his dragon first. S/he proved, that s/he can kill such powerful enemies defeating Flemeth and Architect.

[Zlykebab]

lore-wise, the anchor and elven well plus the army surely are sufficient to bring a mage Inq to almost god-like status and easily crush Warden and Hawke alike.

Warden is able to kill gods, like Mythal, what s/he did during 'Flemeth's real grimoire' quest (but it wasn't revealed, that Flemeth = Mythal). Archdemon was also god (old god, but still god). Warden could just avoid Anchor.

[Zlykebab]

In terms of personal badassery, an argument can be made for the Inquisitor: she killed an archdemon-like dragon *and* an ancient semi-ascended magister, in one battle. The Warden or Hawke managed to do only one of those.

 

In terms of believable leadership, the Inquisitor tops everyone else anyway.

But Inquisitor had few breaks between fighting Corypheus and his dragon, so s/he could fight with full health while corypheus and his dragon was already wounded. Red Lyrium Dragon is not Archdemon, just corupted dragon, the diffrence between dragon and corupted dragon should be the same like between human and ghoul (not big).

[CorniliuS]

The truth, poisonous spider is the ultimate badass, dragons, archdemons, what a joke compare to this simple but elegant creature. If I had an army of spiders I would easily conquer all Thedas and kill all three heroes.

[Dieb]

The Requisitions Officer could easily drive all three of them into suicide.

[Para9on So1dier]

Warden easily for me, he would solo Hawke & The Inquisitor without breaking a sweat and then bang both their women, Cassandra & Isabela (again).

[metalfenix]

gameplay wise, the warden. with the DA:O blood magic, my warden could make hawke and the inquisitor dance the macarena all night

 

lorewise, is supposed to be the inquisitor. I mean, he defeated tons of dragons, an arch-demon and a darkspawn magister, travelled time/dimensions and walked physically through the fade.

[JadeDragon]

gameplay wise, the warden. with the DA:O blood magic, my warden could make hawke and the inquisitor dance the macarena all night

 

lorewise, is supposed to be the inquisitor. I mean, he defeated tons of dragons, an arch-demon and a darkspawn magister, travelled time/dimensions and walked physically through the fade.

the inquisitor did not fight a archdemon. a corrupt dragon but not a archdemon thats like saying killing a  darkspawn emissary is equal to killing one of the seven magisters. The warden and hawke also killed a darkspawn magister. time traveling is not the inquisitors power in fact it was a accident so there goes that. And more dragons were killed because more dragons were there but lorewise you killed one high dragon you killed them all sure some may vary in power but since we dont know if the dragon the warden and hawke fought was weaker or stronger then the high dragons the inquisitor killed the fact they was all capable of slaying a high dragon makes them equal in the dragonslaying department since terms of strength can not be measured. physically walking through the fade was a result of the mark which is unknown how at will the inquisitor can open portals to the fade that they can safely travel. We know for a fact it triggered in dangerous situations though. So those lore points are not valid.

[KaiserShep]

Warden is able to kill gods, like Mythal, what s/he did during 'Flemeth's real grimoire' quest (but it wasn't revealed, that Flemeth = Mythal). Archdemon was also god (old god, but still god). Warden could just avoid Anchor.

 

The Warden can't kill any gods. Flemeth obviously escapes the Warden's wrath regardless, and what really kills the archdemon is the darkspawn taint in the Warden's blood, which just requires the ability to kill dragons, which all three protagonists possess. 

[Zlykebab]

The Warden can't kill any gods. Flemeth obviously escapes the Warden's wrath regardless, and what really kills the archdemon is the darkspawn taint in the Warden's blood, which just requires the ability to kill dragons, which all three protagonists possess.

If you've played DAII (and I'm pretty sure you have), you know, that Flemeth escaped using Hawke's help. And she needed to flee, as you said, so Warden could at least match her. Also, Archdemons aren't regular dragons, they are more powerful. Neither Hawke or Inquisitor have killed such dragons.