781 réponses à ce sujet

[Donquijote and 59 others]

Once again yes it does matter, by your "insane troll logic" if best fighter in the world is killed in explosion or in overwhelming battle he is weakling because he didn't sniff explosion so by your standards every human is weakling because they would die as well.

 

But from what i see it is just waste of time as you doesn't seem even remotely interested in logic.

It does not matter if you are an incompetent who fall victim of your enemies trap,you deserve your defeat and your death,this is reality the warden didn't eveaded the Architect trap/attack, they stood there like lemons while the architect was activating it.

 

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yes i'm not intrested in "follow your logic" the warden got defeated 2 times those are the facts It doesn't matter how it happened,what it matters is that it happened and their life was in danger because of that,with the aggravation that in The Architect case it was their own incompetence.

[Riverdaleswhiteflash]

 

It is possible to disregard the first time that the warden got defeated because it was not their fault, however the same it can't be said for the Architect.

In the latter case (The architect) it is the warden fault,despite being a warden and being able to sense darkspawn,and despite knew that the mine was the lair of powerful darkspawns they did go in there without plans and preparations and they fallen onto a stupid trap on the floor big like 1\3 of the room that even a blind would have seen.

That is entirely the warden fault and i would have liked if the Architect would have killed the warden there like he did with Keenan and all the Orlesian GW) just to demonstrate that  those  who don't strategy ,deserve only to die.

Yeah, but your argument as I understand it is that these defeats speak to a lack of raw power in the Warden. Which they don't.

[TheKomandorShepard]

It does not matter if you are an incompetent who fall victim of your enemies trap,you deserve your defeat and your death,this is reality the warden didn't eveaded the Architect trap/attack, they stood there like lemons while the architect was activating it.

 

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yes i'm not intrested in "follow your logic" the warden got defeated 2 times those are the facts It doesn't matter how it happened,what it matters is that it happened and their life was in danger because of that,with the aggravation that in The Architect case it was their own incompetence.

 

Yeah, now im sure that you have no idea what you are talking about and how reality works in first place.

[Donquijote and 59 others]

Yeah, now im sure that you have no idea what you are talking about and how reality works in first place.

I can say the same about you since the events of the game are scripted and the warden got defeated twice.

[TheKomandorShepard]

I can say the same about you since the events of the game are scripted and the warden got defeated twice.

You can say that but again almost none of things you have said made sense and base on "insane troll logic" so that means very little. All you can do now is throw irrelevant facts without context and when given one by me or River you ignore it so this discussion is pointless.

[Donquijote and 59 others]

You can say that but again almost none of things you have said made sense and base on "insane troll logic" so that means very little. All you can do now is throw irrelevant facts without context and when given one by me or River you ignore it so this discussion is pointless.

Pretty much what you said doesn't make sense because the argumentation i had with Riverdaleswhiteflash does not concerned the defeat of the warden but more about the raw power of the warden which i didn't denied.

THe warden got defeated by The Architect end of the story,traps are a vital part of combat,just like artificier spec use it on combat in DAI or it is possible to use them in DAO,they are a integral part of a fight.

the ability to not get ambushed by it is part of the skill of a warrior.

[TheKomandorShepard]

 

Pretty much what you said doesn't make sense because the argumentation i had with Riverdaleswhiteflash does not concerned the defeat of the warden but more about the raw power of the warden wich i didn't denied.

THe warden got defeated by The Architect end of the story,traps are a vital part of combat,just like artificier spec use it on combat in DAI or it is possible to use them in DAO,they are a integral part of a fight.

 

 

Yes it does make sense , pretty sure i was arguing about your inane statment that warden is weak becuase he was defeated at the Ostagar that was ignoring context of that defeat same for The architect.

Except there was no combat and using Trap has nothing to do with someone being strong or weak , once again if i use explosives to kill matrial arts master doesn't make me strong or matrial arts master weak. Pretty sure when it comes to combat the warden defeats architect so....

[Donquijote and 59 others]

 

Except there was no combat and using Trap has nothing to do with someone being strong or weack

AH no?

Then we should put on the forbidden list all the rogues and warriors warden of DAO and the Artificers of DAI  who use and craft traps as part of their combat skill since they are part of their combat style and expertise. .

It is the warden who fallen like an imbecile to the trap of the Architect without being able to detect it which as i said is necessary part of the combat skill of a warrior,especially if you are going into the enemy's lair and yes i consider a failure into detect a trap(an evident trap) as a weakness

[TheKomandorShepard]

 

AH no?

Then we should put on the forbidden list all the rogues and warriors warden of DAO and the Artificers of DAI  who use and craft traps as part of their combat skill since they are part of their combat style and expertise. .

It is the warden who fallen like an imbecile to the trap of the Architect without being able to detect it which as i said is necessary part of the combat skill of a warrior,especially if you are going into the enemy's lair and yes i consider a failure into detect a trap(an evident trap) as a weakness

 

 

Except traps serve as aid to combat not sole method of fighting, All architect did there was watching the warden from safe place and activated trap that no normal person regardless of fighting skill and physical strength would have been able to resist. Anyone can activate trap from safe distance. 

Except that wasn't normal trap , trap was unique and only 1 such trap was shown in the entire series so pretty much ability to detect traps is useless here nor the rouge warden nor rouge companions could detect that trap.

[Derrame]

the warden is for darkspawns, hawke has no powers and only does chores in a citiy, the inquisitor can open and close fade rifts, kill monsters, leads the inquisition, etc, so the inquisitor is the most powerful

[Donquijote and 59 others]

Except traps serve as aid to combat not sole method of fighting, All architect did there was watching the warden from safe place and activated trap that no normal person regardless of fighting skill and physical strength would have been able to resist. Anyone can activate trap from safe distance. 

Except that wasn't normal trap , trap was unique and only 1 such trap was shown in the entire series so pretty much ability to detect traps is useless here nor the rouge warden nor rouge companions could detect that trap.

They are to be considered as weapons just like arrows are weapons.

Expect that the trap was a sleeping drug and in DAO with the trap skill tree they can be crafted and they have the same effect to force an huge number of enemies to fall asleep

(heck i did use it  even against the archdemon and he did sleep for 10 seconds,).

The point is that the trap in the mine is huge, is a whole platform on the floor and can be seen even from distance and yet the warden was took by it.

Heck the warden  remained on the platform like a lemon while he was watching the Architect or do you truly need the video to realize that.....

[Artona]

We'll, according to your logic, it looks like this:
Hawke (never was defeated) -----> nothing -----> nothing ----> Sandal (never was defeated as well) ---> Inquisitor (gets captured by Cassandra) ---> Cullen (trapped in the Circle) ----> nothing -----> Warden (defeated twice).

Did I miss something ?

[TheKomandorShepard]

 

They are to be considered as weapons just like arrows are weapons.

Expect that the trap was a sleeping drug and in DAO with the trap skill tree they can be crafted and they have the same effect to force an huge number of enemies to fall asleep

(heck i did use it  even against the archdemon and he did sleep for 10 seconds,).

The point is that the trap in the mine is huge, is a whole platform on the floor and can be seen even from distance and yet the warden was took by it.

Heck the warden  remained on the platform like a lemon while he was watching the Architect or do you truly need the video to realize that.....

 

 

Not rly , Bows require skill and direct combat, using traps don't require your involvement you may be on other side of the planet when trap gets someone , pretty much trap is doing job not you. Except it isn't the same Trap not even close that trap is build into the ground and activated on command , trap you talking about is pretty much mine that explodes upon approaching it ,at best you are right about same gas used but those traps were vehemently different.

 

Plain and simple you wouldn't be able tell it was a trap unless you knew about that kind of the trap and once again that kind of trap appeared only once in series. By the time warden realized what was going on trap was already activated so yeah good look with acting on that.   

[Donquijote and 59 others]

We'll, according to your logic, it looks like this:
Hawke (never was defeated) -----> nothing -----> nothing ----> Sandal (never was defeated as well) ---> Inquisitor (gets captured by Cassandra) ---> Cullen (trapped in the Circle) ----> nothing -----> Warden (defeated twice).

Did I miss something ?

I never said nothing like that since i never started a competition to begin with by brought others characters on the comparison, i stated clearly from the first post the statement

Every DA protagonists strengths and powers are inherently defined by the little invincibility curtain that they get when they are controlled by the players in their respective games so the premise of this topic(the comparision between these 3 charcters) does not have sense to me because it is based on a false premise.

[TheKomandorShepard]

 

I never said nothing like that since i never started a competition to begin with by brought others characters on the comparison, i stated clearly from the first post the statement

Every DA protagonists strengths and powers are inherently defined by the little invincibility curtain that they get when they are controlled by the players in their respective games so the premise of this topic does not made sense to me because it is based on a false premise.

You can if you wish repeat the same things that others said in this topic to prove how powerful were their protagonists :

 

-The warden defeated Flemeth,Urthemiel,THe architect,The mother so it is the most awesome

 

-The Inquisitor defeated Corypheus,20 dragons,Hakkon god and sealed a breach and traveled to the fade in flesh so it is the most awesome

 

-Hawke was amazing he was  of Amell family who killed Arishok,the qunary,the Idol and Meredith and was awesome champion ecc..

 

and i would say that they did that so long that they shared the invincibility curtain provided by the game and were protected by plot armors 

 

 

Except Protagonist can die and be killed by opponents but with fact they are protagonists game ends with their death.

 

Your posted defeats and apparently "evidence" that protagonist are weak are nothing more than extraordinary circumstances that have very little to do with being strong and powerful combatants and were taken out of context. 

[Artona]

...but you are aware that you are talking about video games, right? They happen to have player controlled protagonists.

Well, if it bothers you so much, then I really can't see how can you talk about any character in DA series - aren't they all bunch of pixels at best, and sometimes just wall of text. Because if you deny to suspend your disbelief when talking about protagonists, there is no reason for you to do that for non-protagonists.

 

Besides, you did said that:
 

 

The warden was so miserable and weak that got defeated twice,once by a pack of few darkspawns in the tower of Ishal and the second one by The architect who could have killed the warden in his laboratory.

 

Sandal was never defeated. So he isn't "miserable and weak", right ?

And, in my humble opinion, the only "outrageously stupid" thing is questioning starting premise. You could just say: "they don't even exist, how can they be powerful?!", if you do not accept the topic of discussion nor you are interesting in discussing it.

[Donquijote and 59 others]

Except traps serve as aid to combat not sole method of fighting, All architect did there was watching the warden from safe place and activated trap that no normal person regardless of fighting skill and physical strength would have been able to resist. Anyone can activate trap from safe distance. 

Except that wasn't normal trap , trap was unique and only 1 such trap was shown in the entire series so pretty much ability to detect traps is useless here nor the rouge warden nor rouge companions could detect that trap.

you may have your own viewpoint on traps and others kind of mechanical weapons that share a similar function,but the fact remains that they are constructed and built upon expertise(this case the Architect built it),he used it on his lair and the warden was not able to evade it despite having time the warden remained to watch the Architect and Utha like a lemon

[Donquijote and 59 others]

...but you are aware that you are talking about video games, right? They happen to have player controlled protagonists.

Well, if it bothers you so much, then I really can't see how can you talk about any character in DA series - aren't they all bunch of pixels at best, and sometimes just wall of text. Because if you deny to suspend your disbelief when talking about protagonists, there is no reason for you to do that for non-protagonists.

 

Besides, you did said that:
 

 

Sandal was never defeated. So he isn't "miserable and weak", right ?

And, in my humble opinion, the only "outrageously stupid" thing is questioning starting premise. You could just say: "they don't even exist, how can they be powerful?!", if you do not accept the topic of discussion nor you are interesting in discussing it.

Of course since he killed by himself plenty of darkspawn without even been damaged by and touched by them.

and yes you did took a statement of the post and didn't quote the rest 

you want to see how powerful are the protagonists? you have to see them out of their invincibility curtain like Hawke in DAI.

[Donquijote and 59 others]

Except Protagonist can die and be killed by opponents 

 

 

Only if they are out of your control like Hawke in DAI or if you deliberatly wanted to offer the warden soul,otherwise they are invincible and will alwasy defeat every enemy no matter who the enemy is,that's why you can't make a real confrontation between protagonists.

you can say Solas is better than everyone, i have no problem with that because he clearly is powerful and it is not because of invincibility curtain but when you are talking about DA protagonists you can't say that,because they will always be able to defeat every enemies so long as they are in their game.

Take for example the general alpha of the darkspawn chronicles,in the mai game he is killed by the warden or the companions at Denerim, however in the DLc where you control him you kill everyone with him

[TheKomandorShepard]

you may have your own viewpoint on traps and others kind of mechanical weapons that share a similar function,but the fact remains that they are constructed and built upon expertise(this case the Architect built it),he used it on his lair and the warden was not able to evade it despite having time the warden remained to watch the Architect and Utha like a lemon

 Once again you talk about things you have no idea about and think it is true. In first place you have no idea if Trap was built architect (so another thing you made up), as far it goes architect only part in it might have been activating it. Second he was watching the architect and Utha until trap was activated or at least showed sign of activation what pretty much means moment The warden could have realized what was going on was after trap was activated. 

 

 

 

Only if they are out of your control like Hawke in DAI or if you deliberatly wanted to offer the warden soul,otherwise they are invincible and will alwasy defeat every enemy no matter who the enemy is,that's why you can't make a real confrontation between protagonists.

you can say Solas is better than everyone, i have no problem with that because he clearly is powerful and it is not because of invincibility curtain but when you are talking about DA protagonists you can't say that,because they will always be able to defeat every enemies so long as they are in their game.

Take for example the general alpha of the darkspawn chronicles,in the mai game he is killed by the warden or the companions at Denerim, however in the DLc where you control him you kill everyone with him

 

Not rly , once again protagonists can die but you get game over screen as once again they are protagonists so game ends with their death. general alpha is killed by the warden in orginal story line , in Darkspawn chronicles the warden is dead so general doesn't have to fight the warden so he stays alive.Hawke is still able to defeat enemies and is as strong he was in da 2 despite not being protagonist in Inquistion so your point is moot.

[Artona]

 

Of course since he killed by himself plenty of darkspawn without even been damaged by and touched by them.

 

Okey. So we have:
a) Warden, who is miserable and weak

c) Sandal who isn't miserable and weak.

So, are you saying that Sandal would kill Warden in duel?

 

 

and yes you did took a statement of the post and didn't quote the rest

 

Was there something in you original post I didn't relate to?

 

 

you want to see how powerful are the protagonists? you have to see them out of their invincibility curtain like Hawke in DAI.

 

Well, so we can't say anything about power of any character in those games, maybe besides few generic enemies.

[b09boy]

 

The premise of this topic is outrageously stupid since all the DA protagonists are weak

 

 

[Donquijote and 59 others]

 Once again you talk about things you have no idea about and think it is true. In first place you have no idea if Trap was built architect (so another thing you made up), as far it goes architect only part in it might have been activating it. 

 

 

 

Not rly , once again protagonists can die but you get game over screen as once again they are protagonists so game ends with their death. general alpha is killed by the warden in orginal story line , in Darkspawn chronicles the warden is dead so general doesn't have to fight the warden so he stays alive.Hawke is still able to defeat enemies and is as strong he was in da 2 despite not being protagonist in Inquistion so your point is moot.

Not possible because the place was built to be a mine there was no need to put a magical trap in the first floor of the mine,it was put there by the Architect and it responds only to his magic with the function to defeat intruders.

The game over screen isn't part of the narrative,you can fail all the time that you wish in the end the story will not be deflected,you can't be beaten,that is what it is the definition of plot armor ad why compare protagonists is a moot point.

So say that a person is strong when said person was not scripted to fail in such a mission is a travesty sincet they were designed to win from the start.

 

 

It is absolutely irrelevant in that game you are in full control of the Alpha general and that is way he can' t be beaten

because he was designed to win the Dlc,all the companions are killed by the general not by the archdemon.despite the archdemon being more strong ,when you the player are behind the alpha he gets an invincibility curtain(like the warden) and would have won even with the warden there.

 

Okey. So we have:
a) Warden, who is miserable and weak

c) Sandal who isn't miserable and weak.

So, are you saying that Sandal would kill Warden in duel?

 

 

Was there something in you original post I didn't relate to?

 

 

Well, so we can't say anything about power of any character in those games, maybe besides few generic enemies.

-An in character game who seem to hint to a mysterious nature and that  killed plenty of enemies both in DAO and DAII and frozen an Ogre without even an injury,who's to say that he is not as much as powerful than Solas is?

Unless you want to say that the warden is able to defeat someone like Solas

 

 

the part in which i said this

 aside from the little invincible curtain that they get when they are controlled by the player.

remove the player control(like Hawke in DAI) and then make the confrontation, Hawke was presumably defeated by the demon in the fade in DAI and in DAI was an level 11 mage/warrior/rogue,while in DA2 he killed ancient forbidden demons like Xebenkeck

(who was a spirit of choice since the times of the Evanuris)

like he was a mosquitoe  for the invincibility curtain that he had in DA2

No one can say that the protagonists are strong because of what they accomplished when such accomplishments were inevitable because they couldn't fail.

[Artona]

 

-An in character game who seem to hint to a mysterious nature and that  killed plenty of enemies both in DAO and DAII and frozen an Ogre without even an injury,who's to say that he is not as much as powerful than Solas is?

Unless you want to say that the warden is able to defeat someone like Solas

 

Maybe, but you state that:
 

 

No one can say that the protagonists are strong because of what they accomplished when such accomplishments were inevitable because they couldn't fail.

 

What, Sandal accomplishments weren't inevitable? Why is it okay to say that Sandal's deeds are proof of his power, but Warden's not, while both of them "couldn't fail"?
And don't forget, that earlier you said that the reason Warden is "weak and mesirable" is because he got beaten. You know who was never beaten? Viscount's seneschal .

 

 

the part in which i said this

 aside from the little invincible curtain that they get when they are controlled by the player.

 

...but you are aware that you are talking about video games, right? They happen to have player controlled protagonists.

Well, if it bothers you so much, then I really can't see how can you talk about any character in DA series - aren't they all bunch of pixels at best, and sometimes just wall of text. Because if you deny to suspend your disbelief when talking about protagonists, there is no reason for you to do that for non-protagonists.

[TheKomandorShepard]

 

Not possible because the place was built to be a mine there was no need to put a magical trap in the first floor of the mine,it was put there by the Architect and it responds only to his magic with the function to defeat intruders.

The game over screen isn't part of the narrative,you can fail all the time that you wish in the end the story will not be deflected,you can't be beaten,that is what it is the definition of plot armor ad why compare protagonists is a moot point.

So say that a person is strong when said person was not scripted to fail in such a mission is a travesty sincet they were designed to win from the start.

 

 

It is absolutely irrelevant in that game you are in full control of the Alpha general and that is way he can' t be beaten

because he was designed to win the Dlc,all the companions are killed by the general not by the archdemon.despite the archdemon being more strong ,when you the player are behind the alpha he gets an invincibility curtain(like the warden) and would have won even with the warden there.

 

 

It is possible , and if first place who says that it was there put by the people built that place?So, once again you have no proof that Architect built that trap and once again you come up with things that are in your head as facts , please provide me with offical source that claims it responds only to his magic if you can't as i said it one of many things you made up.

 

Story won't be deflected because it is protagonist story thus it ends with protagonist death , doesn't change fact that the warden ,Hawke or Inquistor can die but once again story ends on that moment as devs won't simply continiue story because that would mean other story that devs didn't want to tell or/and just couldn't.

Once again you can fail , but if you want to finish game you can't because story frames the warden ending blight and succeeding.

 

It is absolutely relevant , once again the only reason General dies in Orginal is because the warden killed General and in Darkspawn chronicles The warden couldn't kill him because the warden was dead so he is alives and can kill other people , plain and simple once again "insane troll logic" on your part. That archdemon is stronger doesn't mean he has to kill everyone , with your logic archdemon would be only who fights and kills because he is strongest.