781 réponses à ce sujet

[Aren]

The official Grey Warden position is that an Archdemon is not especially hard to kill. This is straight up what Riordan tells us - Tevinter pulled it off a fair number of times, but it kept coming back.

Ancient Teinter was a powerful empire with powerful mages,so it isn't a suprise that hey managed to defeat Dumat several times when the dragon decided to show up on the battle field,i find more difficult to believe that it took 200 years for an empire ruled by expert mages to discover his trick.

Anyway the archdemons possess some unique magical abilities that don't have to be underestimated.

[sjsharp2011]

personally I'd asy the Warden purely because  is their life in the case of both Hawke and the Inquisitor they were both hjust ordinary people caught up in extraordinary events requiring them to do extraordinary things. That's not to say I don't like my Hawkes or quizzies as I love all 3 heroes in their own way but for me the warden takes it just on that.

[DAOnut]

My Warden is much more powerful than my Inquisitor.  She is able to change from staff to bow to sword during combat, and has full access to all her spells.  My Lady Lavellan is severely limited by her failure to only remember a small handful of her spells while she keeps twirling her staff in the air!

[Pavan]

My Warden is much more powerful than my Inquisitor.  She is able to change from staff to bow to sword during combat, and has full access to all her spells.  My Lady Lavellan is severely limited by her failure to only remember a small handful of her spells while she keeps twirling her staff in the air!

 

 

The inquisitor can't even learn blood magic or the rock body defence spell.

 

And where the hell is Crushing prison - thats was like the trade mark spell of DA mages

[oOButtercreamOo]

To be honest, for me it is quite the difficult decision about who is more Powerful...

 

My Opinion is that if it comes to fighting experience it is the Warden.

Who else killed that much Darkspawn, Golems, Werewolfes, Mercenaries, Demons and even the Archdemon himself?

 

If it comes to Political Power it would be clearly the Inquisitor.

The Hero of Ferelden could have some of it too (If made Queen or Prince-consort) and even Hawke has some as Champion oder Visount (if you choose the Templars) but just to some degree, nothing like the Inquisitor him/herself.

Of course the Inquisitor has Combat experience too but i think it pales to the comparison of the Warden.

Spoiler

And that with his/her Anchor didn't last that long as we can see at the End...

 

And then theres Hawke. Without doubt (s)he is Powerful but i see him/her more as a victim of circumstances.

Unlike the Inquisitor or the Hero of Ferelden (s)he never had the chance to escape these conflicts in which (s)he was thrown in.

The Inquisitor could have declined this title and the Warden could have (dependent on the Origin) prefered death before being a Grey Warden. Hawke instead had to reconsider his/her Family which he was responsible for to protect.

 

 

At the End everyone of them is Powerful in their own right. I like to prefer the Warden but thats because i love Origins and i'm quite attached to it from the beginning.

[Zero]

Battle Power: The Warden - Inquisitor - Hawke

 

As everybody says, the Warden killed a lot of nasty things in his/her adventure, including (potentially) one form of Flemeth, an Archdemon, the Baroness (a very old and powerful pride demon abomination), the Queen of Blackmarsh (a unique high dragon, stronger than the usual), the Mother (a mutant broodmother), and a Harvester (possibly a stronger variation of the usual ones); with his/her greatest feat of ending a Blight in a year (even the Third Blight, the shortest in history before the Fifth, lasted like 10 years).

 

If mage, the Warden can be a Blood mage, and unlike Hawke can use Blood magic to its fullest because the Chantry see the other way if Blood magic is used against darkspawn. And also can have the Power of Blood regardless of class, that let him/her use the Taint powers as well.

 

People even lampshade how "intelligent" is the idea of picking a fight against the Warden in the games.

 

Political Power: Inquisitor - The Warden - Hawke

 

The Inquisition is

Spoiler

or was, until Trespasser

the most powerful institution of Thedas. 

 

What is clear is that Hawke is the weakest character so far.

[d1ta]

I'd have to say the IQ when s/he still have that Anchor attached.

While Warden and Hawke may have done incredible feats, but none possesed a Diety-like power in opening the fade and traipsing inside it with your best buds in physical form.. and walk out of it again.
That alone might be enough for the rest of the Inquisition troops to trully believe that you really ARE the Herald of Andraste, even when your mouth is busy refuting such sayings

[PhroXenGold]

I'd have to say the IQ when s/he still have that Anchor attached.

While Warden and Hawke may have done incredible feats, but none possesed a Diety-like power in opening the fade and traipsing inside it with your best buds in physical form.. and walk out of it again.
That alone might be enough for the rest of the Inquisition troops to trully believe that you really ARE the Herald of Andraste, even when your mouth is busy refuting such sayings

 

Yeah, if we're going with story based abilities as opposed to gameplay based ones, Inky wins thanks to the power of the Anchor. When you consider what the ability to open and close portals into the Fade, and physically enter it with other people means, almost anything she fights is screwed. Hell, all she needs to do is dump the people she's fighting in there and close the rift behind them....

[TheKomandorShepard]

Battle Power: The Warden - Inquisitor - Hawke

 

As everybody says, the Warden killed a lot of nasty things in his/her adventure, including (potentially) one form of Flemeth, an Archdemon, the Baroness (a very old and powerful pride demon abomination), the Queen of Blackmarsh (a unique high dragon, stronger than the usual), the Mother (a mutant broodmother), and a Harvester (possibly a stronger variation of the usual ones); with his/her greatest feat of ending a Blight in a year (even the Third Blight, the shortest in history before the Fifth, lasted like 10 years).

 

If mage, the Warden can be a Blood mage, and unlike Hawke can use Blood magic to its fullest because the Chantry see the other way if Blood magic is used against darkspawn. And also can have the Power of Blood regardless of class, that let him/her use the Taint powers as well.

 

People even lampshade how "intelligent" is the idea of picking a fight against the Warden in the games.

 

Political Power: Inquisitor - The Warden - Hawke

 

The Inquisition is

Spoiler

or was, until Trespasser

the most powerful institution of Thedas. 

 

What is clear is that Hawke is the weakest character so far.

 

Same can be said about Hawke and Inquistor, truth is that they have comparable battle proves making it impossible to determine.Then certain specializations would have advantage over another for an example mage PC vs templar PC.

 

With Political power i agree.

 

 

I'd have to say the IQ when s/he still have that Anchor attached.

While Warden and Hawke may have done incredible feats, but none possesed a Diety-like power in opening the fade and traipsing inside it with your best buds in physical form.. and walk out of it again.
That alone might be enough for the rest of the Inquisition troops to trully believe that you really ARE the Herald of Andraste, even when your mouth is busy refuting such sayings

Anchor is hardly "Diety-like power" story-wise it has very limited use on the battlefield like using it as double edged sword to distract Florianes ambush or as finisher to already defeated Corypheus.People belive you are Herald for a few reasons mainly slowing down groth of the breach and they started to call you long before you Inquistor used it in battle.

 

Yeah, if we're going with story based abilities as opposed to gameplay based ones, Inky wins thanks to the power of the Anchor. When you consider what the ability to open and close portals into the Fade, and physically enter it with other people means, almost anything she fights is screwed. Hell, all she needs to do is dump the people she's fighting in there and close the rift behind them....

Hardly as i mentioned above it's abilities in story anchor have very limited use in battle.

[Lezio]

Yeah, if we're going with story based abilities as opposed to gameplay based ones, Inky wins thanks to the power of the Anchor. When you consider what the ability to open and close portals into the Fade, and physically enter it with other people means, almost anything she fights is screwed. Hell, all she needs to do is dump the people she's fighting in there and close the rift behind them....

 

Dunno about that. I mean, i know you're considering story, but if we also take into account gameplay we've seen creatures strong enough, or willed enough, being able to resist the Anchor's pull. Plus, it hurts quite badly the Inquisitor to use it, so there's that

 

Anyway, in my opinion the most powerful is The Warden. I mean, seriously, the power jump they do during Origins and then in Awakening talks for itself, plus if we consider that by the time Inquisition starts it's been a decade from Awakening..... yeah, in my opinion The Warden has a decade long worth of battle experience AND a huge amount power, especially a mage one

 

Hawke is probably the weakest. She (my Hawke is a she so i'll use that) is not nearly as powerful as the other two (if we take gameplay into account, she takes 7 years to come close to the Warden/Inquisitor) and not really as experienced in actual tactics as the Warden or a Trespasser Inquisitor. Still, i feel like she could still be a threat because of the way she fights, which is, to win

[d1ta]

Hunh, correct me if I'm wrong.. but wasn't the last time that mortals try to enter the fade physically was that one time where corypheus and his gang went on a trip to the golden city?
And they achieve that by using insane amount of blood to power up the ritual. Atop of that, when they walk out from their fade excursion, they got an extra bonus of catching the taint.
I tend not to see that as a feat to sneeze at, especially since the IQ manages to do it just by using the glowy hand and exits the fade without being turned into a darkspawn.

But yes, I'm viewing things on story perspective and not gameplay.

And depending on what class your IQ is, there are some who doesn't believe that you're the Herald (dialogue options with Lysette) because you're a mage and all that
And if you are not playing as a human, some even invent creative slanders on the 'Herald' because of *reasons* (got this when talking to Jossie)
Admittedly, these were all at the beginnig of the game.
They change their tune later in game after Haven, though..

[Orlaith]

I played 3 mages so I think this is a very hard quetion. I try to answer this with my personal headcanon and the choices that they made.

Warden Surana:
+Arcane Warrior, Healer
+Conections to Bhelen in Orzammar and friendship with King Alister.
+I roleplayed Surana as a very intelligente/book smart -> best at tactics
+Friends with devine Leliana
-I played Surana more as a healer than a warrior
-Alister has to be as strong as Surana, or even stronger in battle. Alister could kill the archdemon the same way as Surana.
-no expierience in battle befor Surana became a Warden, in my headcanon: not many battles after Denerim

Hawke
+In my imignation the best actual fighter on a battlefield, also has the most courage and is not as naive as Warden/Inquisitor.

->I have my Hawke as the oldes character(25 at the start) . Warden was around 16 and Inquisitor is early 20s. So I say my Hawke has the moste expierience in battle.


Inquisitor:
+Power of the Inquisition and conections
-> For all of Thedas I would say Lavellan is in a better position as my Warden. In Ferelden its my Warden because king Alister.
+Rift mage is kind of powerfull
+has the devine on his side (Leliana)
+A dalish mage got probaply more actual fighting teacht than a circle mage.


So for me it is in an actual battle:
1)Hawke 2) Both Surana and Lavellan. Since I think Lavellan would be better at fighting but the arcane warrior is in my opinion just a to strong specielisation for Surana to make 3 place.
In a battle that is longer and more stratigic, Surana would propably win, Lavellan has his people (Leliana, Josie,Cullun) and Hawke would lose.

[TheKomandorShepard]

Hunh, correct me if I'm wrong.. but wasn't the last time that mortals try to enter the fade physically was that one time where corypheus and his gang went on a trip to the golden city?
And they achieve that by using insane amount of blood to power up the ritual. Atop of that, when they walk out from their fade excursion, they got an extra bonus of catching the taint.
I tend not to see that as a feat to sneeze at, especially since the IQ manages to do it just by using the glowy hand and exits the fade without being turned into a darkspawn.

But yes, I'm viewing things on story perspective and not gameplay.

And depending on what class your IQ is, there are some who doesn't believe that you're the Herald (dialogue options with Lysette) because you're a mage and all that
And if you are not playing as a human, some even invent creative slanders on the 'Herald' because of *reasons* (got this when talking to Jossie)
Admittedly, these were all at the beginnig of the game.
They change their tune later in game after Haven, though..

Such feat is irrevelant combat wise, pretty much sole purpose of the anchor is to affect the veil.You can open door with a key or using TNT doesn't mean a key is more powerful than TNT just because first requires less effort.Plus, Inquistor unlike Magisters didn't go to the black city (where magisters accodring to Corry found corruption) nor Inquistor knew how to get to the black city when topic is brought up when talking to the Morrigan.

 

It changes because of your actions and certain events, Ie closing breach, surviving Corypheus attack and avalanche as well official promotion to the leader position, not because anchor made you a demi god, if something it was only seen as gift from the maker.

[Zero]

Same can be said about Hawke and Inquistor, truth is that they have comparable battle proves making it impossible to determine.Then certain specializations would have advantage over another for an example mage PC vs templar PC.

 

When we are talking about raw battle power, we have to take into account the power of the enemies each character fought. And the Warden fought and defeated the stronger ones in the franchise so far (yeah, you can argue about Solas, but the Inquisitor was unable to fight him, and I don't see Inky with a chance of defeating him even at his/her best).

 

In DA2, when Hawke singlehandedly killed an ogre, Flemeth was impressed with that, meaning killing an ogre is quite the feat. The Inquisitor can defeat a few ogres as well in the Descent. Well, the Warden not only killed his/her fair share of ogres, s/he also killed a lot of Children darkspawn, aberrations that can easily defeat even ogres. And the Warden didn't killed only one. S/he killed a lot of in Awakening. Alongside a lot of golems in Amgarrak, among other nasty stuff.

 

Neither Hawke, nor the Inquisitor had battled that kind of enemies in their adventures. I put Inky above Hawke just because Inky can kill a lot of high dragons, but that hardly puts Inky at the level of the Warden, from a battle power point of view.

 

 

Hunh, correct me if I'm wrong.. but wasn't the last time that mortals try to enter the fade physically was that one time where corypheus and his gang went on a trip to the golden city?
And they achieve that by using insane amount of blood to power up the ritual. Atop of that, when they walk out from their fade excursion, they got an extra bonus of catching the taint.
I tend not to see that as a feat to sneeze at, especially since the IQ manages to do it just by using the glowy hand and exits the fade without being turned into a darkspawn.

But yes, I'm viewing things on story perspective and not gameplay.

 

The Inquisitor is cheating, because that is something s/he hadn't accomplished of his/her own. Instead, s/he got the key of the Veil thanks to the orb of the creator of the Veil. The Inquisitor isn't using his/her own raw power to open/close rifts, is using something Solas (creator of the Veil) created to do that. And Inky doesn't even has the power to survive that thing. If not for Solas, the Inquisitor would have died right away after the Conclave. And Solas help only buy Inky two years before the Anchor was unbeareable for him/her to still have it.

 

Using cheats and being helped doesn't makes you more stronger than the one who uses his/her own power to fight, and don't need magic help to withstand a corruption that is killing him/her from within. The Warden is surviving the Taint with only his/her own willpower (and this is even demonstrated in Origins if you play the Dalish Warden).

[TheKomandorShepard]

When we are talking about raw battle power, we have to take into account the power of the enemies each character fought. And the Warden fought and defeated the stronger ones in the franchise so far (yeah, you can argue about Solas, but the Inquisitor was unable to fight him, and I don't see Inky with a chance of defeating him even at his/her best).

 

In DA2, when Hawke singlehandedly killed an ogre, Flemeth was impressed with that, meaning killing an ogre is quite the feat. The Inquisitor can defeat a few ogres as well in the Descent. Well, the Warden not only killed his/her fair share of ogres, s/he also killed a lot of Children darkspawn, aberrations that can easily defeat even ogres. And the Warden didn't killed only one. S/he killed a lot of in Awakening. Alongside a lot of golems in Amgarrak, among other nasty stuff.

 

Neither Hawke, nor the Inquisitor had battled that kind of enemies in their adventures. I put Inky above Hawke just because Inky can kill a lot of high dragons, but that hardly puts Inky at the level of the Warden, from a battle power point of view.

The problem whith what you are saying is not only that every protagonist faces pretty much similar enemies but also would have to assume that if Hawke/Inquistor didn't fought archdemon he wouldn't be able to defeat archdemon in fight.

 

What exactly foes you mean when you are saying warden faced opponents that were stronger .Inquistor for an example faced Hakkon that was said to be more or less as powerful as Dumat.Flemeth on other hand just turned into a high dragon, so basically i would put her in pair with other dragons.Architect power is hard to estimate but extremely doubtful he was more powerful than Corypheus.

 

Yes killing an ogre is impressive but problem with that is that every protagonist faced opponents stronger than an ogre.Inquistor can kill 10+ dragons but doesn't mean Hawke/the warden wouldn't be able to do the same they just never had opportunity than fight more than few dragons.Same here Inquistor/Hawke never had opportunity to fight the children or fight as many ogres as the warden but it doesn't mean they wouldn't be to kill as many as the warden.

[Zero]

The problem whith what you are saying is not only that every protagonist faces pretty much similar enemies but also would have to assume that if Hawke/Inquistor didn't fought archdemon he wouldn't be able to defeat archdemon in fight.
 
What exactly foes you mean when you are saying warden faced opponents that were stronger .Inquistor for an example faced Hakkon that was said to be more or less as powerful as Dumat.Flemeth on other hand just turned into a high dragon, so basically i would put her in pair with other dragons.Architect power is hard to estimate but extremely doubtful he was more powerful than Corypheus.
 
Yes killing an ogre is impressive but problem with that is that every protagonist faced opponents stronger than an ogre.Inquistor can kill 10+ dragons but doesn't mean Hawke/the warden wouldn't be able to do the same they just never had opportunity than fight more than few dragons.Same here Inquistor/Hawke never had opportunity to fight the children or fight as many ogres as the warden but it doesn't mean they wouldn't be to kill as many as the warden.

Some unique enemies the Warden (potentially) fought that are stronger that those meet by Hawke or the Inky in other games:

 

Spoiler

—Hurlock omega: Unique Hurlock alpha, stronger than the other alphas. Nearly killed the party if not for Wynne miraculous emergency magic healing trick, meaning Hawke or the Inquisitor wouldn't have a chance against him. 
—Ancient darkspawn: Unique really old (and therefore, powerful) darkspawn.
—Unique darkspawn individuals not as powerful as those mentioned above, but still stronger than their normal variants. This include three Hurlocks generals (one in Return to Ostagar, two in the battle of Denerim), the Hurlock vanguard (in RtO — possibly the same one who kills Alistair in the Darkspawn Chronicles), the Genlock forge master (stronger Genlock seen in the franchise so far), the Risen Ogre (unique, stronger ogre from RtO).
—Whiterfang: Unique, very old (and therefore, really powerful) abomination.
—Shah Wyrd: Unique rage demon in the Circle, stronger than the average rage demon.
—Lot of golems (one golem is said to be equiparable to a dwarven battalion). Granted, Cassandra killed a lot in her movie, meaning Inky maybe is able to do this as well. But the Warden also fought against stronger variants of the golems: the Sentinels and Watchers of Amgarrak and the unique Inferno golem of Kal'Hirol.
—Flemeth: In dragon form. She has to be as strong as the Guardian of Mythal, meaning the Inquisitor can catch the Warden here.
—Gaxkang: Well, not really a unique feat, as Hawke and Inky defeated this guy companions.
—Archdemon Urthemiel: Granted, Hakkon seems to be powerful enough as an archdemon, but that leaves Hawke even behind.
—Lots of Children, that as already stated are stronger than even ogres.
—The Baroness, another really old and really powerful abomination. Possibly the strongest abomination we have seen in the whole franchise so far.

—The Queen of Blackmarsh: A unique, more powerful high dragon.

—The Dark Theurge: Another really old, really powerful unique demon, including as well his "evolved" form: an ogre abomination.
—A least two broodmothers, including a unique, more powerful one, The Mother.

—A lot of sylvans (that according to Last Flight, is necessary an army to defeat sylvans), including two unique variants, seemingly more stronger than the normal ones: the Grand Oak and the Old One.
—The Architect, who is at least as powerful as Corypheus without being infused in Red Lyrium. This evens Hawke and the Warden, but Inky fought a stronger variant of Cory.
—A harvester, and it seems the Warden fought against a stronger variant than the one Hawke fought in DA2.
—A varterral: Hawke also defeated one.

 

Many of those enemies are stronger "in-universe" (not only mechanic-wise, but also story-wise) than any stuff Hawke or Inky have fought.  Well, maybe except the Nightmare. But both, Inky and Hawke needed help to fight it (the "Divine"'s help) and had to flee in the end... 

 

As for your point, maybe or maybe not.

 

We know the Warden is not a normal person, because normal persons die in the Joining. Only peak human (or whatever race) can survive the Joining. 

 

Hawke is a normal person. He can only can compete with the Warden if is a mage. 

 

Inky has the Anchor, and that's the only really advantage it has against Hawke. If not, it would also be a normal person if not a mage.

[Riverdaleswhiteflash]

Inky has the Anchor, and that's the only really advantage it has against Hawke. If not, it would also be a normal person if not a mage.

So you'd think, and yet Inky treats Red Templars like ordinary mooks where Hawke almost lost to one who hadn't even drunk the stuff.

[Zero]

I forget that. My bad.

 

More points to say Hawke is the weakest of the main characters.

[TheKomandorShepard]

Some unique enemies the Warden (potentially) fought that are stronger that those meet by Hawke or the Inky in other games:

 

Spoiler

—Hurlock omega: Unique Hurlock alpha, stronger than the other alphas. Nearly killed the party if not for Wynne miraculous emergency magic healing trick, meaning Hawke or the Inquisitor wouldn't have a chance against him. 
—Ancient darkspawn: Unique really old (and therefore, powerful) darkspawn.
—Unique darkspawn individuals not as powerful as those mentioned above, but still stronger than their normal variants. This include three Hurlocks generals (one in Return to Ostagar, two in the battle of Denerim), the Hurlock vanguard (in RtO — possibly the same one who kills Alistair in the Darkspawn Chronicles), the Genlock forge master (stronger Genlock seen in the franchise so far), the Risen Ogre (unique, stronger ogre from RtO).
—Whiterfang: Unique, very old (and therefore, really powerful) abomination.
—Shah Wyrd: Unique rage demon in the Circle, stronger than the average rage demon.
—Lot of golems (one golem is said to be equiparable to a dwarven battalion). Granted, Cassandra killed a lot in her movie, meaning Inky maybe is able to do this as well. But the Warden also fought against stronger variants of the golems: the Sentinels and Watchers of Amgarrak and the unique Inferno golem of Kal'Hirol.
—Flemeth: In dragon form. She has to be as strong as the Guardian of Mythal, meaning the Inquisitor can catch the Warden here.
—Gaxkang: Well, not really a unique feat, as Hawke and Inky defeated this guy companions.
—Archdemon Urthemiel: Granted, Hakkon seems to be powerful enough as an archdemon, but that leaves Hawke even behind.
—Lots of Children, that as already stated are stronger than even ogres.
—The Baroness, another really old and really powerful abomination. Possibly the strongest abomination we have seen in the whole franchise so far.

—The Queen of Blackmarsh: A unique, more powerful high dragon.

—The Dark Theurge: Another really old, really powerful unique demon, including as well his "evolved" form: an ogre abomination.
—A least two broodmothers, including a unique, more powerful one, The Mother.

—A lot of sylvans (that according to Last Flight, is necessary an army to defeat sylvans), including two unique variants, seemingly more stronger than the normal ones: the Grand Oak and the Old One.
—The Architect, who is at least as powerful as Corypheus without being infused in Red Lyrium. This evens Hawke and the Warden, but Inky fought a stronger variant of Cory.
—A harvester, and it seems the Warden fought against a stronger variant than the one Hawke fought in DA2.
—A varterral: Hawke also defeated one.

 

Many of those enemies are stronger "in-universe" (not only mechanic-wise, but also story-wise) than any stuff Hawke or Inky have fought.  Well, maybe except the Nightmare. But both, Inky and Hawke needed help to fight it (the "Divine"'s help) and had to flee in the end... 

 

As for your point, maybe or maybe not.

 

We know the Warden is not a normal person, because normal persons die in the Joining. Only peak human (or whatever race) can survive the Joining. 

 

Hawke is a normal person. He can only can compete with the Warden if is a mage. 

 

Inky has the Anchor, and that's the only really advantage it has against Hawke. If not, it would also be a normal person if not a mage.

 

Those opponents are hardly stronger than strongest opponents that Inquistor and/or Hawke faced.Strongest enemies that Hawke faced would be Corypheus and Malvernis (this one is up to the debate), Inquistor's Corypheus and Hakkon, while The warden Archdemon and Gaxkang (this also is up to the debate).They are pretty more powerful beings than most of this list.

 

"meaning Hawke or the Inquisitor wouldn't have a chance against him"

That is quite a leap in logic.Just because it nearly killed the warden doesn't meant they would kill Hawke or Inquistor.

 

"The Architect, who is at least as powerful as Corypheus without being infused in Red Lyrium. This evens Hawke and the Warden, but Inky fought a stronger variant of Cory"

That is impossible to determine, and there is quite of bit of evidence that are against that like that Architect lost his memory, Architect lacked many of Corypheus powers (ability to control wardens and emit false old god song etc) and Architect preformance was much more lacking than one Corypheus gave to Hawke and Inquistor . 

 

"A harvester, and it seems the Warden fought against a stronger variant than the one Hawke fought in DA2" How do you know that?

 

That is jump in logic as well, how do you know Inquistor or Hawke aren't "peak human" since they never tried to go through joining?And for a "peak humans" wardens seem to die a lot from hands of normal soldiers. 

 

 

So you'd think, and yet Inky treats Red Templars like ordinary mooks where Hawke almost lost to one who hadn't even drunk the stuff.

Meredith was hardly "ordinary", i can't recall red Templars being sith lords and that they could make statues alive.Even Samson that is treated as a boss didn't gave such preformance.

[Zero]

Those opponents are hardly stronger than strongest opponents that Inquistor and/or Hawke faced.Strongest enemies that Hawke faced would be Corypheus and Malvernis (this one is up to the debate), Inquistor's Corypheus and Hakkon, while The warden Archdemon and Gaxkang (this also is up to the debate).They are pretty more powerful beings than most of this list.

 
According to codex, "a single berserking hurlock can often be a match for numerous opponents at once." We know protagonist aren't the regular soldier, but this serves us to measure the power of a hurlock beyond game mechanics. Now, alphas are stronger than hurlocks, and darkspawn like the Vanguard, the ancient one or the Omega are even more powerful than your regular darkspawn alpha.
 
Hawke and Inky only have fought regular hurlocks and alphas, while the Warden had fought and defeated stronger variants of hurlocks. Same with golems, and ogres, and Children. 
 
And to say that only the Archdemon and Gaxkang are the most powerful enemies the Warden has fought, is an understatement, because you're ignoring stuff like the Baroness being able to enter the mortal world without a body to possess in her true form (a Pride Demon), and without a rift/Breach in the Fade to help her do that, the Dark Theurge being seemingly immortal, or the codex entries of many of those unique enemies stating that they are stronger than the regular variants of their species.

 

 

"A harvester, and it seems the Warden fought against a stronger variant than the one Hawke fought in DA2" How do you know that?

 

 

Haven't you played the Golems of Amgarrak DLC? The harvester in Amgarrak Thaig had control of the Fade pseudo-dimensions the Vints created in that Thaig, and was intelligent enough to use them to its advantage in the actual fight. It was able also to summon a lot of undead to help it in battle, while Orsino's harvester called only a few ones (maybe he lacked corpses to control, but that makes the fight easier for Hawke and friends). 

[TheKomandorShepard]

 
According to codex, "a single berserking hurlock can often be a match for numerous opponents at once." We know protagonist aren't the regular soldier, but this serves us to measure the power of a hurlock beyond game mechanics. Now, alphas are stronger than hurlocks, and darkspawn like the Vanguard, the ancient one or the Omega are even more powerful than your regular darkspawn alpha.
 
Hawke and Inky only have fought regular hurlocks and alphas, while the Warden had fought and defeated stronger variants of hurlocks. Same with golems, and ogres, and Children. 
 
And to say that only the Archdemon and Gaxkang are the most powerful enemies the Warden has fought, is an understatement, because you're ignoring stuff like the Baroness being able to enter the mortal world without a body to possess in her true form (a Pride Demon), and without a rift/Breach in the Fade to help her do that, the Dark Theurge being seemingly immortal, or the codex entries of many of those unique enemies stating that they are stronger than the regular variants of their species.

 

 

 

 

Haven't you played the Golems of Amgarrak DLC? The harvester in Amgarrak Thaig had control of the Fade pseudo-dimensions the Vints created in that Thaig, and was intelligent enough to use them to its advantage in the actual fight. It was able also to summon a lot of undead to help it in battle, while Orsino's harvester called only a few ones (maybe he lacked corpses to control, but that makes the fight easier for Hawke and friends). 

Yes, but this is completly irrelevant here every protagonist fought creatures that are vastly more powerful than hurlocks, so despite they didn't had opportunity to fight with stronger variations of hurlocks they shouldn't have a problem with them as they fought with vastly stronger opponents.As well i could say that the warden is weaker because he never fought with red templars.

 

I only mentioned most powerful opponents they faced not every powerful opponent because there was no need to do so as we are concerned with their peak.As for baroness it is true that she was very powerful pride demon but i wouldn't put her as warden strongest opponent, same for other examples.

 

I did, i just wouldn't call it being stronger as it has just an extra tool that didn't necessarily work for it's advantage as it was double edged sword.While more undead as you said could be simply not enough dead bodies (unless Varric changed details) and while it was advantage for Hawke doesn't necessarily mean he wouldn't be able to handle more undead.  

[Riverdaleswhiteflash]

Meredith was hardly "ordinary", i can't recall red Templars being sith lords and that they could make statues alive.Even Samson that is treated as a boss didn't gave such preformance.

Which is confusing, since he really ought to be far and away more powerful than she is. He has the armor, he's actually drinking red lyrium, and it's all but stated he's wielding the same sword that gave Meredith the power she almost killed Hawke with. Maybe it's just gameplay and story segregation? We know the abominations the first two PCs were killing by the score ought to have been far more powerful than we saw in the game.

[German Soldier]

 snip

You can't really make a comparison between protagonists which is solely based on their invincibility courtain.

 

Look at Hawke which is able to defeat every kind of foes including ancient demons of the times of Arlathan and an entire legion of templars/mages yet fail miserably at killing some darkpsawn and needs Flemeth's help to handle a pack of them or the warden who can resist fireball,thunderbolts dragon claws and jaws in the face yet is miserably defeated by some arrows.

 

In short we can't properly measure the protagonists abilities not only because it vary depending on who they are and how they were trained by the player but also because in their games they have the invincibility courtain

[TheKomandorShepard]

Which is confusing, since he really ought to be far and away more powerful than she is. He has the armor, he's actually drinking red lyrium, and it's all but stated he's wielding the same sword that gave Meredith the power she almost killed Hawke with. Maybe it's just gameplay and story segregation? We know the abominations the first two PCs were killing by the score ought to have been far more powerful than we saw in the game.

Well, maybe Meredith was just that badass, idol was for some reason special or it was Varric exaggerated story.Wasn't sometimes Meredith sword completly destroyed before she turned into the statue?

 

 

You can't really make a comparison between protagonists which is solely based on their invincibility courtain.

 

Look at Hawke which is able to defeat every kind of foes including ancient demons of the times of Arlathan and an entire legion of templars/mages yet fail miserably at killing some darkpsawn and needs Flemeth's help to handle a pack of them or the warden who can resist fireball,thunderbolts dragon claws and jaws in the face yet is miserably defeated by some arrows.

 

In short we can't properly measure the protagonists abilities not only because it vary depending on who they are and how they were trained by the player but also because in their games they have the invincibility courtain

 

You are vastly underestimating circumstances behind those events.Aside from that those events were at the beggining of the jurney when protagonists didn't have much of actual combat experience, in Hawke case we deal with darkspawn horde that would simply overrun them by sher of numbers, Hawke already defeated good sheer of number of them while running almost without a break from Lothering.In the warden case we deal with almost exactly the same circumstances.Plus, you can't be serious to bring gameplay combat mechanic into the story, because obviously it is done mostly for entertainment and characters didn't survive 12 hits with 2h sword while being half naked.

 

So there is no invincibility curtain but simply circumstances where you had no hope of victory.

[German Soldier]

 

So there is no invincibility curtain but simply circumstances where you had no hope of victory.

You can solo the entire  game  and i wouldn't call that  game mechanics i would call that invincibility curtain of the protagonists.