20 réponses à ce sujet

[SuperMedbh]

I know, I know, there are a hundred threads on why pick Dex over Cun for an archer rogue.  But in all seriousness, why not increase both equally?  I'm currently running a rogue bard/ranger with lethality and I like the defense of dexterity, but I also like the various gameplay benefits of cunning.  Since I've got lethality, dex = cun for damage, correct?  So why not split the points between the two statistics?

Or am I missing something here?

[Silensfurtim]

coz if you choose DEX, youll also increase attack and defense rating.



Cunning is more useful fo Melee Rogues.

[wby87]

Depends on atk, def, armor pen, utility or whatever you like, you have to value one attribute more than another, just because they are different.



But if you can somehow find the sweet spot for the necessary atk and def, then split is the way to go.



Or you can split anyways, it won't make any difference on your enjoyment of the archer experience.

[soteria]

Without a combat log, it's pretty hard for anyone to say definitively whether cunning or dexterity is more beneficial and in what quantities. I think the fact that the debate has such strong proponents on each side says a lot toward neither stat being clearly better in every circumstance.

[meho12]

i only go cunning for the bard bonouses other than that straight dex work fine for bow. also bow toons owned well at least the rogue version of it.

[krsboss]

aside from song of courage bard talent scaling with cunning investment I see little point in a cunning based rogue. I know there are many people on the forums that would argue the benefits of being cunning based, however as a PC, I see less advantages....



....yes, due to massive cunning bonusses you will not need to invest so many skills and talents to gain the same result (eg. persuade / lockpicking) however the first rogue i played have talent & skill enough to max all of a combat tree whilst still being able to gain all rogue talents...in addition, I had to maximize survuival skill as at least it was the only skill that gave a bonus (+20% nature resist)...



...still I'm going to level up a cunning based rogue to see what all the fuss is about!

[wby87]

...still I'm going to level up a cunning based rogue to see what all the fuss is about!

You'll find a machine that stabs everything for 100+ consistently, and exploding their brains in less than 3 seconds every time. The only thing slowing you down is the messy kill animations, and you'll cuss at dragon kill animations because they take too damn long.

Tainted blade and exploit weakness are two of the more significant scaling talents.

[Silensfurtim]

...still I'm going to level up a cunning based rogue to see what all the fuss is about!

Benefits of CUN

Tainted Blade damage modifier
Exploit Weakness damage modifier
Armor Penetration increase
Song of Courage modifier (bonus to Attack, Damage and Crit Chance. higher CUN means higher bonus)
Coercion and Lockpick modifier

My CUN Rogue



At mid to end game, you can deal consistent 100-150 per backstab (depending on which enemy) with Tainted Blade on and maybe with Mark of Death. And with Momentum on, enemies die very quickly. I mean VERY quickly, like 3 seconds or less. You'll be hogging all the kills from your party.

Heres an example of how deadly CUN Rogues are.




The only thing bad about CUN Rogue is they're glass cannons. They need babysitting to survive.

Modifié par Silensfurtim, 26 janvier 2010 - 01:25 .

[miltos33]

Dexterity is more useful for archer rogues and cunning is more useful for melee rogues. As an archer rogue I think that the best way to allocate your attributes is a 2:1 ratio in favour of dexterity, while as a melee rogue is a 2:1 ratio in favour of cunning. As an archer, bard, or ranger, you should also spare some points for willpower so that you can manage your sustainables.

[ownedbywitt]

If you go with your party, them cun. If you'r soloing, then dex.

Rigth now, im playing with a cun archer (bard, duelist) and the bonus you and your party gets from song of courage is really awesome.

[Poopsock]

Cunning archers are the suck.

[Sir Kalkanor]

Poopsock wrote...

Cunning archers are the suck.

???
why
sure they dont hit as often as a dex archer if solo..
but using song of courage helps alot and if your in a team with a mage heroic offense on cast on archer and your sorted
and if you have more than 1 bard = 2 song of courages heroic offense isnt needed (but it never hurts to have it on anyway)

[sethroskull79]

I am about 50/50 with a slight edge in DEX for my Rogue Archer. Got Song of Courage and its really good. I would also suggest in the first line of dual wield. You will get rushed and find yourself in tight spots. Why not have another way to inflict damage. I do good damage even without Dual wield, so I am spending my last 4 talents in that line. I got 1 tome to by, landsmeet bonus, and 2 levels to gain. I think that is a nice compliment to an archer build.

[Poopsock]

Sir Kalkanor wrote...

Poopsock wrote...

Cunning archers are the suck.

???
why
sure they dont hit as often as a dex archer if solo..
but using song of courage helps alot and if your in a team with a mage heroic offense on cast on archer and your sorted
and if you have more than 1 bard = 2 song of courages heroic offense isnt needed (but it never hurts to have it on anyway)

Those are alot of ifs.  It forces you to take bard.  The attack speed is so slow that the abysmal hit rate kills its for me. 

Also I have to admit: I just can't get over the fact that, even post patch, archery is not a viable DPS route. Sniff...

Modifié par Poopsock, 26 janvier 2010 - 05:54 .

[Sir Kalkanor]

Poopsock wrote...

Sir Kalkanor wrote...

Poopsock wrote...

Cunning archers are the suck.

???
why
sure they dont hit as often as a dex archer if solo..
but using song of courage helps alot and if your in a team with a mage heroic offense on cast on archer and your sorted
and if you have more than 1 bard = 2 song of courages heroic offense isnt needed (but it never hurts to have it on anyway)

Those are alot of ifs.  It forces you to take bard.  The attack speed is so slow that the abysmal hit rate kills its for me. 

Also I have to admit: I just can't get over the fact that, even post patch, archery is not a viable DPS route. Sniff...

ya i spose your right about the whole "if" thing
and the attack speed is badish... (stupid haste not working right!!)

but i find an archer can hold his/her own in a fight 
even when in a normal party set-up (tank-mage-heal-MC) my MC archer is normaly either number 1 or 2 killer/damager

[ownedbywitt]

Poopsock wrote...

Cunning archers are the suck.

If u solo yes, and early on the game it fails 1/2 - 2/3, but mid game to end game with proper buffs it rocks, and is much more funny than backstab backstab... also it remembers my old times on lineage 2 xD

[Tabogon]

I am going to be starting an archer rogue very soon and have been trying to figure out this exact same thing. My current train of thought is a 1 dex/2 cun per level build, mainly due to the fact that I play on the PS3. I hope that it will help with the low hit rating a pure cunning build has. Still trying to figure out the skill point allocations though.

[SuperMedbh]

Thanks for the input, all. My character is 15th level now, still about 50/50 on cunning and dex. I like being able to persuade and open locks, but I really, really hate missing with my Arrow of Slaying. I still need to get the Song of Courage, though, so hopefully that will help my hit chances. Decisions, decisions.



Well, I suppose making a game without One True Path to winning is probably a good thing.

[Kalyska]

Cunning to 30, max traps, bard song, 20 str for armor, rest in dex!

[jauggy]

Is pumping cun to boost SoC really that useful? Adding 10 cunning increases attack by 1 from SoC.



According to wiki:

Total bonuses: Attack: (Cunning - 5)/10 + 2. Damage (as displayed on Equipment screen): Cunning/20 + 1.5 + X. Same bonus to each hand if dual wielding. X = 0 for dual wield, single wield mace, bow. X = 0.2 for single wield long sword. X = 0.9 for single wield dagger. Critical chance %: Cunning/10 + 2.

[Silensfurtim]

jauggy wrote...

Is pumping cun to boost SoC really that useful? Adding 10 cunning increases attack by 1 from SoC.

According to wiki:
Total bonuses: Attack: (Cunning - 5)/10 + 2. Damage (as displayed on Equipment screen): Cunning/20 + 1.5 + X. Same bonus to each hand if dual wielding. X = 0 for dual wield, single wield mace, bow. X = 0.2 for single wield long sword. X = 0.9 for single wield dagger. Critical chance %: Cunning/10 + 2.

Song of Courage: gains 3 attack (+ 10% of cunning modifier ) , 2 Damage(+5% cunning modifier), Crit chance 3% (+10% cunning modifier).

So remember a modifer is the stat -10.
So 70 cunning Song of Courage would give you 9 Attack, 5 Damage and 9% Crit.
40 Cunning would give you 6 Attack, 3.5 Damage and 6%Crit.
An endgame Rogue with 90 CUN would have 11 Attack, 6 Damage, 11 Crit

its great for the whole party, not just you.

Modifié par Silensfurtim, 29 janvier 2010 - 01:26 .