36 réponses à ce sujet

[Beerfish]

in my opinion.  Vinatori?  sure, very doable and decent way to create a choke point but after playing some success and failures on wave 5 I really think you should NOT group back at the entrance vs demons and the templar giant.  Against those two enemies I think it is better to try and move around the map cleaning up the low and mid level bosses and occasionally going after the main boss.  Insta kill type enemies in an enclosed are is not the way to go.

 

What say you all?  Am I right or am I out to lunch?

[Myala]

I agree.

[andy_3_913]

in my opinion. Vinatori? sure, very doable and decent way to create a choke point but after playing some success and failures on wave 5 I really think you should NOT group back at the entrance vs demons and the templar giant. Against those two enemies I think it is better to try and move around the map cleaning up the low and mid level bosses and occasionally going after the main boss. Insta kill type enemies in an enclosed are is not the way to go.

What say you all? Am I right or am I out to lunch?

What's for lunch?

On the other hand, I agree

[junker1990]

If you play with friends -- yes, kiting around map is a faster and safer way to defeat enemies. If you play with random people, it's the bad idea.

[Robbiesan]

Agreed.  With those two, room to move is definitely helpful.

 

One round I remember the team simply moving to the outer edges of the map and moving around in a circle engaging enemies, rather than allowing them to descend upon the team. 

 

One of the things that makes the groups fail quickly is often being bombarded by enemies in the room, and it can be overwhelming.  It can sometimes work out, but I do agree with Beerfish here.

[Flytarget]

I personally think it's better to do all three in the initial room providing the room is big enough for the templar boss. I play a tanking role so I need room to kite him away from the rest of the party when he starts his spinning blade move. As far as the demon commander goes, you can straight up tank him if you learn his pattern and watch your stamina. Once I get aggro on the demon boss he never targets another player so no need to run around.

[J. Peterman]

LET ME CAMP IN PEACE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[III Poison III]

I think it's all gear, class and player dependant...wait, so is everything on this game?

[-PenguinFetish-]

Nope. Camping with a chokepoint is easiest. Let the big boss through and have someone play with him at the back while the others smash the rest through the chokepoint.

Moving will get you sniped by archers without a solid team.

[III Poison III]

^^^ pretty much that.

[Beerfish]

If you play with friends -- yes, kiting around map is a faster and safer way to defeat enemies. If you play with random people, it's the bad idea.

I play almost exclusively with random people and it is still a bad idea imo.  I've had more success kiting with a group of randoms.  sure you get separated and problems occur more often but also it is easier to rez people in a non enclosed space.

[Beerfish]

Nope. Camping with a chokepoint is easiest. Let the big boss through and have someone play with him at the back while the others smash the rest through the chokepoint.

Moving will get you sniped by archers without a solid team.

The tank playing with the boss goes down and you are hooped because you are literally trapped.  The demon lord easily jumps from place to place taking out two players at a time.  When the 2nd tier bosses penetrate the room you are in trouble.

[TheThirdRace]

What's the alternative?

 

Elven and Tevinter area 5 are only offering very small spaces where you can't move adequately and wipe easily or big open spaces where you get shot from all angles and wipe easily...

 

I don't remember which one it is (Elven or Tevinter), but there are 4 corners where you can defend relatively easily with only 2 small point of entry while the other is a nightmare because it's just wide open or so small your characters collide more than they should.

 

Orlais is the best map, it has a great protected area with a lot of room to move, but still that area is not always the same so it's also a lottery.

 

To make my point, when you played Hydra map in ME3 you had a big open area with only 1 great room to hide. 90% of the time everyone were hold up in that room. Why? Because it's the only safe place to avoid being shot from all angles and you have space to move if things gets hairy. It's simple like that.

 

To be fair, with a little coordination and skill, it's much easier to hold the entrance than any of the other options.

[xROLLxTIDEx]

Nope. Camping with a chokepoint is easiest. Let the big boss through and have someone play with him at the back while the others smash the rest through the chokepoint.

Moving will get you sniped by archers without a solid team.

 

^^This

[Saboteur-6]

I'm a proponent for holding the choke point too.

[Flytarget]

The tank playing with the boss goes down and you are hooped because you are literally trapped.  The demon lord easily jumps from place to place taking out two players at a time.  When the 2nd tier bosses penetrate the room you are in trouble.

The tank shouldn't be going down in the first place. They should almost always be the last one alive if the party wipes.

[Rahmiel]

I find that the chokepoint method works for 2 of the 3 factions, the worst being the demon commander simply because people like to group up and stand near each other which leads to quick failures.  Just my personal experience.

 

For venatori, easy peasy.  Red templars, the only thing you have to do is have a tank taunt kite him, and do no damage to the commander until you're ready to kill him.  Simply because if you whittle away at his health, he'll start doing his special attacks, such as that crystal ripple that does knock down and a lot of damage, the jumping leap, etc.  If you do not do enough damage to the red templar commander then the only thing you have to watch out for is his slow spin, which you can easily avoid or even get him caught on geometry while he's doing it.

 

But just my personal experience in pugs.

[Azrus]

The tank playing with the boss goes down and you are hooped because you are literally trapped.  The demon lord easily jumps from place to place taking out two players at a time.  When the 2nd tier bosses penetrate the room you are in trouble.

This is one of those things that irks me to no end when playing against Demons.  You should never be standing close enough to someone that the Demon commander can kill more than one person.  Yeah, ideally the Demon Commander should be targeting one guy whose sole job is to keep the Demon Commander busy, but accidents happen and that person occasionally goes down.  You need to plan for the worst.  Keep some distance between the group so that if he does switch targets, it's not completely screwing the team.

 

I tend to agree with the OP though.  The confined entrance means whoever is tanking the Commander needs to be that much better at it.  You also need to have some decent teamwork/experienced players so that they're not getting killed trying to fight the Commander at the wrong time.  With PUGs, I generally prefer to fight outdoors.  I'm not talking about in the middle of a plaza, but if I can find an area that's only got two entrances (corner rooms are great), then I prefer to fight there.  If my team's having a bit of difficulty figuring out that they should be focusing on the adds while I tank the boss, then I can take him for a walk.  Generally kiting the boss half way across the map helps keep them focused.

[Torkelight]

I have done this with great success against all three bosses. If you have a workable team you can easily block the entrance for all mobs except the bosses. And again, if you have good team it is no problem kiting all of them, a bit harder with the demon though. Venatori is so easy because he is so easy to focus down. He will die very quickly. Regarding the demon which in my opinion is the hardest, it is very important not to clump up and also keep moving while he is underground. That way you can actually avoid any damage that he makes when popping up. The Red guard Commander is also very easy to kite inside the room. All you need is that the person who has the aggro is actually aware of it, and makes the nescessary movement not only to avoid damage from him but also not kite him into one of Your teamates. To be honest, if you have played a few games this is VERY easy to do.

If you go out of the room, you loose control over the battlefield and can easily be swarmed by enemies against ALL bosses, so I would NOT advice it on higher than routine missions.

If I can gather a good team, with this tactic we succeed on threatening every time, no matter what boss.

[Cirvante]

Nope. Camping with a chokepoint is easiest. Let the big boss through and have someone play with him at the back while the others smash the rest through the chokepoint.

Moving will get you sniped by archers without a solid team.

 

This. Once you remove the Commander, holding the chokepoint with three players becomes really easy. And killing the Commander at the end when he's alone is very satisfying.

[MaxCrushmore]

With all the kits that have great aoe damage, letting all the adds come thru one choke point is always superior.

 

Also, ranged units won't have a line of sight and will be forced to come thru that opening and get taken down fast.

 

I have found there is enough room on all the maps at the start of zone 5 to handle all the factions.

 

Now, having said that, if that room gets overwhelmed, then leave ..

[Shinnyshin]

I think it's also a lot more comp/difficulty dependent than people acknowledge.  If you've got two Assassins, no Elementalist, and haven't lost on the difficulty you're playing for a looooooong time...  I always feel like the final wave goes faster if we run around killing everything.  And against Demons, I certainly don't trust your average player to stay out of my way when I have aggro so larger areas help.

 

Plus holding the room gets so, so, so old.  When someone insists on doing it during an absolute milk run, we all have to stifle a huge sigh.

[-PenguinFetish-]

The tank playing with the boss goes down and you are hooped because you are literally trapped.  The demon lord easily jumps from place to place taking out two players at a time.  When the 2nd tier bosses penetrate the room you are in trouble.

 

If the tank goes down then he is a bad tank. 

[Beerfish]

With all the kits that have great aoe damage, letting all the adds come thru one choke point is always superior.

 

Also, ranged units won't have a line of sight and will be forced to come thru that opening and get taken down fast.

 

I have found there is enough room on all the maps at the start of zone 5 to handle all the factions.

 

Now, having said that, if that room gets overwhelmed, then leave ..

Most often it's too late if you get overwhelmed and the boss and mid level bosses are the ones that get into the inner room and just obliterate the group because while the group is dancing around trying to not get one shotted the others pick you apart.

[Beerfish]

If the tank goes down then he is a bad tank. 

After the rest of the group goes down because a boss has entered the room and flattened you two at a time the tank will go down.  An elite tank player can problaby solo everything.  I've actually only seen one game go as you described earlier a tank occupying the boss and the rest of the team trying to hold off.  The tank was a good player, after the rest of team got killed by my demon the tank finally went down.

 

I'm basing my observations from the last number of threatening games I've played where the team has had success outside the little room and failed almost every time in the room.