563 réponses à ce sujet

[KaiserShep]

If the Asari were portrayed as an all male species you'd notice the gender imbalance even more.

But at least we'd be just as puzzled as Shepard as to how they reproduce with their own species.

[Pasquale1234]

I haven't seen the concept art before playing the series, but it seems like Tali's face always had hints of being human-like in ME1, albeit with glowing eyes.

Human-like, sure - but very alien.

Here are some various concepts, linked from Matt Rhodes blog:

As for the turians, it was my understanding that it was established early on that the sexual dimorphism in them was minor, and that the females would closely resemble the males, whereas now they almost look like a separate species.

I agree.

[aoibhealfae]

If the Asari were portrayed as an all male species you'd notice the gender imbalance even more.

that's why it made more sense for them to be portrayed as androgynous hermaphrodites rather than simply not!female despite having ALL female characteristics. They could become true agender as the lore intended and basically render the idea of gender imbalance as something very non-existent in a culture where everyone can be both female and male. Like Le Guin's LHoD, its very alien too and a very good tribute to one of great scifi work of our time.

[JamieCOTC]

Femshep - the voice, the story had a different feel, macho space marines were old hat in 1986's Aliens, chemistry between Hale and almost everyone is better, tired of playing the same guy in every game.  Mark Meer is a great voice actor and I applaud him on his skills w/ the Vorcha, Hannar, Elcor, the Biotic God and some good stuff in ME3 as Shepard. That said, femshep all the way.

[aoibhealfae]

I don't think they were really meant as "a-gender".. If you look at, say, Drew K in early interviews (like one I watched on the Platinum Hits second disc), he just sounds like he's tapping into typical Orion Girl nerd fantasies.

 

Or blue all-female version of twi'lek. He didn't think I wouldn't notice that Liara is a slightly older and romance-able version of Mission Vao. Why nobody gimme a wookie or HK-droids? Geth could have been made a wonder HK-47.

 

OT

[Han Shot First]

that's why it made more sense for them to be portrayed as androgynous hermaphrodites rather than simply not!female despite having ALL female characteristics. They could become true agender as the lore intended and basically render the idea of gender imbalance as something very non-existent in a culture where everyone can be both female and male. Like Le Guin's LHoD, its very alien too and a very good tribute to one of great scifi work of our time.

 

The lore actually states that the Asari have a gender, and that gender is female. So their portrayal in the series isn't at odds with the codex. They were never intended to be agender.

 

...not that you can't prefer that they were of course. I only take issue with 'as the lore intended.'

[Batarian Master Race]

The lore actually states that the Asari have a gender, and that gender is female. So their portrayal in the series isn't at odds with the codex. They were never intended to be agender.

 

...not that you can't prefer that they were of course. I only take issue with 'as the lore intended.'

Doesn't Liara say she's "not exactly female"? And that there's no concept of gender among the Asari?

 

I mean, they're female in the strictest biological sense, but they certainly don't identify as such.

[KaiserShep]

Doesn't Liara say she's "not exactly female"? And that there's no concept of gender among the Asari?

 

I mean, they're female in the strictest biological sense, but they certainly don't identify as such.

 

I usually disregard that stuff, because they pretty much still use "she" and "woman" to describe each other.

[Han Shot First]

Doesn't Liara say she's "not exactly female"? And that there's no concept of gender among the Asari?

 

I mean, they're female in the strictest biological sense, but they certainly don't identify as such.

 

They don't have the same social constructs of gender as humans because biologically they are all female. Aoibhealfae however seemed to referring to gender in the biological sense, since she stated they should have been androgynous hermaphrodites instead so that they could be true agender as the lore intended.

 

The lore is actually quite clear however that they are biologically female, so in that sense the portrayal of the Asari in the game was not out of step with the codex. Had Bioware gone the route she suggested the lore would also have be different to reflect that.

[aoibhealfae]

technically what they want was just "green dancing alien girls" of their own. that's the lore origin. Wish they could utilize some of the elements from Herland... 

 

the best thing about the Asari was the discussion around Ardat-Yakshi and the pure blood prejudice in a society that operates around mystical parthenogenesis. We hardly see than in ME3.

[Robert Cousland]

To the idiots who say, "FemShep is better, because...", or "BroShep is better, because...", and then proceed to **** all over the opposite gender just for existing...

 

THEYRE THE SAME DAMN CHARACTER.

 

Get over yourselves.

[Han Shot First]

 

THEYRE THE SAME DAMN CHARACTER.

 

 

Pretty much.

 

The only differences are in appearance, some of the LI options, and in voice acting. Beyond that the characters are identical. 

[Quarian Master Race]

There are a lot of differences between that concept art and what we got in-game. Once Tali became a popular LI, they really humanized the face compared to the original concept. I suspect a similar thing is happening with other species.

Human-like, sure - but very alien.

Here are some various concepts, linked from Matt Rhodes blog:

There's really not much basis to make these claims. Even Tali's ME1 apperance is nothing like the first concept art that Rhodes shows with the black eyes and nostril slits instead of a protruding nose.

There wasn't anything really nailed down up until they finalized it. If we are just going by concept art, one of the others that Rhodes includes in that blog as a favourite (the only one you excluded) is nearly as humanlike as the lazy photoshop that we got.

Not saying it isn't a possibility that male fanservice aimed at Talimancers is the reason a more humanlike option was chosen for the quarians (indeed, it wouldn't be the first such example), merely that you are claiming as fact that it was is probably jumping the gun. Concept art is just that, a concept of what could be. The only real things we could say for certain before the photoshop was what was gleaned from what we could see in game (brightly glowing eyes, humanlike nose and cheeks), and from the description in Ascension with the vaguely humanlike eyes and lids, teeth, lips, and cheekbones, but quite different ears.

I don't think they were really meant as "a-gender".. If you look at, say, Drew K in early interviews (like one I watched on the Platinum Hits second disc), he just sounds like he's tapping into typical Orion Girl nerd fantasies.

Yep, and actually the Art of Mass Effect book that accompanied the first game states that the asari were essentially designed to fill the same trope as the Orion from Star Trek, only they're blue instead of green.

Androgynous or hermaphroditic species as a concept would be interesting to explore further, but the asari are not and were never intended as such.

[Pasquale1234]

There's really not much basis to make these claims. Even Tali's ME1 apperance is nothing like the first concept art that Rhodes shows with the black eyes and nostril slits instead of a protruding nose.

I disagree. The legs and feet were changed, but the enviro-suit in that concept looks very similar to what she wore in-game, down to the swirls, with the addition of the helmet and headscarf. Also, what we could see of her eyes through the semi-translucent mask in ME1 appeared to be shaped much like what is shown in that concept.
 

Not saying it isn't a possibility that male fanservice aimed at Talimancers is the reason a more humanlike option was chosen for the quarians (indeed, it wouldn't be the first such example), merely that you are claiming as fact that it was is probably jumping the gun.

I'll have to ask you to show me where I claimed any of my random musings as fact.
 

Concept art is just that, a concept of what could be. The only real things we could say for certain before the photoshop was what was gleaned from what we could see in game (brightly glowing eyes, humanlike nose and cheeks), and from the description in Ascension with the vaguely humanlike eyes and lids, teeth, lips, and cheekbones, but quite different ears.

I haven't consumed any of the other media. All I know is what is presented in the game.

I did change topics in this paragraph, however:
 

There are a lot of differences between that concept art and what we got in-game. Once Tali became a popular LI, they really humanized the face compared to the original concept. I suspect a similar thing is happening with other species.

The first sentence is a reference to the Turian concept art posted by Vazgen. Male Turians look very similar to the concept, females not so much.

[von uber]

I actually think they did a better job writing asari characters then the trope implies.
In fact I'd go as far to say they subvert it more than live up to it.
They had some interesting ideas around the ardat-yakski which would have been good to explore further .

Oh bioware, why did you have to ruin the universe with your stupid reaper plot.
Such potential flushed down the bog.

[Steelcan]

I actually think they did a better job writing asari characters then the trope implies.
In fact I'd go as far to say they subvert it more than live up to it.
They had some interesting ideas around the ardat-yakski which would have been good to explore further .

Oh bioware, why did you have to ruin the universe with your stupid reaper plot.
Such potential flushed down the bog.

I'd say it improved slightly over the course of the trilogy.

 

ME1 did a very poor job with them, they were essentially not!Twi'leks and Liara was...ME1 Liara, it got better as we learned more about their culture in ME2 and ME3 had them as essentially on par with the Turians, less focus on their culture because the war kind of precluded that

[Quarian Master Race]

I disagree. The legs and feet were changed, but the enviro-suit in that concept looks very similar to what she wore in-game, down to the swirls, with the addition of the helmet and headscarf. Also, what we could see of her eyes through the semi-translucent mask in ME1 appeared to be shaped much like what is shown in that concept.
 

I'll have to ask you to show me where I claimed any of my random musings as fact.

No, it's not just the legs, feet and pentadyctyly humanlike hands that didn't make it past early concept stage, that face wouldn't work even with the ME1 apperance
The bridge of the nose is far more pronounced and the structure itself is quite large, the eyes are the wrong colour, and are smaller with the corners being more symmetrical, and the cheekbones are more pronounced and result in the face being less flat. The character was somewhat more humanlike than that initial concept before the LI was even an idea.

As for claiming random musings as fact....well

 

Once Tali became a popular LI, they really humanized the face compared to the original concept.

 

 

Human-like, sure - but very alien.
 

^you don't seem to denote that either of these claims that the quarians were at some point more "alien" and that changed upon the inclusion of Tali as a LI are opinions, and ones not really supported (and actually contradicted) by anything in the games, let alone other media that is also canonical. Concept art is not canon, and illustrators do not write characters. Miranda isn't a blonde who was ruined by male fanservice just because her first concepts were, for example.

[Suron]

Femshep>>>>>>>>>>Maleshep because Aria is into Femshep more

 

https://www.youtube....h?v=5CQjrDGxWnU

 

This evidence is irrefutable!!

 

OK, being serious for a moment, this video reminded of me of a thought I once had about the Asari. They are an all female species who will be naturally predisposed to finding anyone who shares their form attractive, meaning the male form will be completely unfamiliar and alien to them. An Asari trying to kiss a male for the first time would be like me trying to snog the roach from Man in Black, way too weird. Someone like Aria may have been around male gendered species long enough to have gotten used to the idea, but she would still consider them strange. 

 

If Bioware had originally went down the route of making the Asari only attracted to the females of humanoid species, thereby making someone like Liara a Femshep exclusive romance, it actually would have made sense. But they've gone too far with this whole thing of making the Asari attracted to everyone(something which makes no sense) to be able to turn back now, unless they do a DA:I. 

 

No one said the Asari are attracted to every species male or female.  Liara herself states that "mating" (bearing a child) doesn't even have to involve sex.  At all.  The Asari just might find the attributes of a person appealing for an offspring and not be attracted to them in the slightest.  It's never even alluded too that Asari find every alien race attractive regardless of gender.  Not only that but you're generalizing way too much regardless...just because SOME asari (like liara) find Shepard attractive, who's to say he's not hideous to the majority?  it's like anything else...opinions vary.  To say all asari find all alien species regardless of gender attractive just because Liara and a select few we see like shepard...is pretty short-sited to say the least.

 

not trying to offend but seriously...Nothing is stated that Asari find all aliens attractive, male or female...since reproducing doesn't have to involve sex at all just further disputes your statement.

 

I mean you focus on Asari possibly finding other aliens attractive instead of the fact the Asari are an all-female species with fully working female genitals despite there being no males required (or swapping of body fluids) for reproduction?

[RussianLullaby]

I like FemShep best. That's really about it. Whenever I watch the trailers and see ManShep I'm like "Who's tha-... oh, yeah. That's the poster guy!" Shepard is female to me, in my universe. That's basically why I play FemShep. It feels odd playing ManShep. It's like he's some stranger butting in on the party we're having without him.

[sH0tgUn jUliA]

Going back and having not played the trilogy in a very long time, while I found Hale excellent in ME1 and ME2, I found her a bit over the top in ME3. She got a little too emotional with her delivery at times and not emotional enough at others. It depended upon the scene. The reason I say this is that in ME1 she did fine at playing a military officer, but her delivery was flatter. Now I like contralto voices especially for authority positions, so I have to say in ME2 she was perfect for playing a female badass. ME3 she's playing an Alliance Marine again. She needed to tone it down a little.

 

Meer did very good job in ME3. I'd say the two were about even in the third game.

 

Still, Shepard is always femShep to me.

 

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I totally agree that Bioware ruined Mass Effect with the Reaper plot. They should have ended it with the destruction of the Collectors  in ME2. There was no need for Arrival.

[jtav]

Female. Meer is painful in ME1, though he improves dramatically as the trilogy goes on to the point I think he's the better of the two by ME3. But add in that I really can't figure out the CC for guys and that none of the romances work for me and FShep it is.

[warblewobble]

This is actually a debate? Hale is incredible. Meer...well, I'm sure he gave the performance he was directed to give but it just doesn't compare. While Kaidan is normally alive in my playthrough I feel a good point of comparison is the 'hungover Ashley' scene in ME3. Meer's delivery is wooden and bland. Hale's, by contrast, really makes it seem like Shepard is enjoying giving her a hard time. Odd scene to pick out, I know, but femshep has personality. Maleshep...not so much.

[DuskWanderer]

This is actually a debate? Hale is incredible. Meer...well, I'm sure he gave the performance he was directed to give but it just doesn't compare. While Kaidan is normally alive in my playthrough I feel a good point of comparison is the 'hungover Ashley' scene in ME3. Meer's delivery is wooden and bland. Hale's, by contrast, really makes it seem like Shepard is enjoying giving her a hard time. Odd scene to pick out, I know, but femshep has personality. Maleshep...not so much.

 

You're kidding, right? Compare that to the interrogation scene in Thane's loyalty mission. Or the Citadel DLC. 

 

When I play that game, Hale just sounds vaguely pissed off all the time. So when Shepard is pissed off, I understand. But there's a good portion of the game where Shepard isn't supposed to be pissed off, and it just doesn't work.