563 réponses à ce sujet

[Gambit458]

None of those links back up your statement that there are equal men and women reading comics. In fact the first one points out that for DC it is still massively male.

Look if you find male characters more interesting than female than that's great for you, it really is.

Me - being a boring, white, mid 30's fairly well off male currently find stories written with a female protagonist more interesting than one with a male.

Femshep - although fairly gender nuetral although there are differences - all the way back to the encounter with Harkin in ME1 - is inherently more interesting to me because she is a break from the norm.

Likewise it's what made LIS so interesting for me - a character that is really a whole new viewpoint and outlet on the world, and one where being young and female makes her miles more interesting than if it had been a male in the role. It just would not have worked.

Then you don't know what you're talking about. I don't have to provide proof that their numbers are more equal nowadays as I'm not going to waste my time sorting through comicvine just to find the discussion where they discussed such, especially when there were female users in it weighing in on it which is where I got my information. Except the link did back up my statement as a guy pointed out how the number has risen over 30-40% in recent years but sure..Btw, I like how you ignored where I asked you to provide proof that the majority were American teens. Don't ask for proof from someone who knows the material better than you and then not back up your statements yourself.

[fraggle]

Oh, you use the english localisation?

 

Yeah, dubs usually make my toes curl, haha. Plus I love the English language, so that's another reason why

[von uber]

Then you don't know what you're talking about. I don't have to provide proof that their numbers are more equal nowadays as I'm not going to waste my time sorting through comicvine just to find the discussion where they discussed such, especially when there were female users in it weighing in on it which is where I got my information. Except the link did back up my statement as a guy pointed out how the number has risen over 30-40% in recent years but sure..Btw, I like how you ignored where I asked you to provide proof that the majority were American teens. Don't ask for proof from someone who knows the material better than you and then not back up your statements yourself.

Yes you do have to provide proof as you are the one making the statement. Saying numbers have increased by 30-40% is not per of they are equal. There could have been ten girls and now there are thirteen. The onus is not on me to disprove your assertion - that's a common fallacy also used by those who claim God exists and then demand proof that s/he/it doesn't.

Anyway, using comics as reasoning that male characters are more interesting than female is inherently flawed as you are using one small niche example to extrapolate to all characters across all media.
Which, needless to say, is a load of bollocks.

[obbie31]

I agree with you fraggle. I recently replayed ME2 with femshep as a Sentinel. I was surprised at how dry many of her deliveries were in that game. She sounds overly husky and tries to be intimidating even in her paragon deliveries and its really contrived. I think ME1 was her best game where Meer was fairly dull and she had enough emotion in her voice, but not so much that it was over done like in ME3.

 

But as mentioned a few times, Meer has improved immensely and he's actually very good overall in ME3. Meeting Miranda in ME3 in the apartment was a great scene I think. And if I'm not mistaken, he voices many of the aliens like the hanar, volus, and vorcha. But again I agree with you that both are great. I just don't think broshep is as bad as some people make him out to be.

[Dantriges]

Yeah, dubs usually make my toes curl, haha. Plus I love the English language, so that's another reason why

 

Hm, I considered it. The german male paragon VO in ME 1 sounded a lot like some soft spoken teacher or therapist, which was quite annyoing but IIRC it required some fiddling in ME 1 and after that, it was ok.

[Gambit458]

I agree with you fraggle. I recently replayed ME2 with femshep as a Sentinel. I was surprised at how dry many of her deliveries were in that game. She sounds overly husky and tries to be intimidating even in her paragon deliveries and its really contrived. I think ME1 was her best game where Meer was fairly dull and she had enough emotion in her voice, but not so much that it was over done like in ME3.

 

But as mentioned a few times, Meer has improved immensely and he's actually very good overall in ME3. Meeting Miranda in ME3 in the apartment was a great scene I think. And if I'm not mistaken, he voices many of the aliens like the hanar, volus, and vorcha. But again I agree with you that both are great. I just don't think broshep is as bad as some people make him out to be.

What's ironic is that she sounded better when she was voicing Bastila in KOTOR which came out before ME. Don't know what Hale was thinking when she was doing ME 

[obbie31]

Its not hard to know what she was going for. She wanted to make femshep more emotional. Maybe even put femshep on the map with her performances. I mean its pretty obvious in several interviews where she blatantly tries to push femshep and claims she asks developers why "this character can't be female."

 

I'm actually playing through ME3 as femshep right now after a few months. A lot of her deliveries are... not as good as I remember. Why does she do this annoying whispery crap to convey emotion in sentences that don't require it? When I find a reason to find her deliveries annoying, she then turns around and does an amazing delivery, and the goes back to whispering. Its really inconsistent.

 

I haven't played KOTOR so I can't comment on her voice acting there. I've seen her in many games before naturally, but this is the one series where I have heard her a lot. I like some of her work and then dislike others.

[Kerg]

I have never rolled a female Shepard.  As a hetero male myself, the idea of directing my character to actively seek out and obtain penis and having to decide which penis my character would like best just doesn't compute.  I also always play a soldier, and I have a hard time buying that the toughest, most badass special forces marine humanity has to offer would be female, and that she wouldn't even be muscular and would have the beauty and delicate figure of a super model.

 

Not that I don't think women should be soldiers or that they couldn't make good soldiers, but they would probably look more like that chick from Aliens than someone from a Victoria Secret catalog...

 

[fhs33721]

I have never rolled a female Shepard.  As a hetero male myself, the idea of directing my character to actively seek out and obtain penis and having to decide which penis my character would like best just doesn't compute.

 

You do realize you, even as female Shepard, could just not seek any penis for the entire trilogy, if you aren't inclined to do so, right?

[Undead Han]

FemShep is too overemotional as Shepard.

 

 

Hale's gender had nothing to do with the fact that she hammed it up a bit.

[Kerg]

You do realize you, even as female Shepard, could just not seek any penis for the entire trilogy, if you aren't inclined to do so, right?

 

But then I would feel bad for her because she's not getting any.    Point is...  when I make decisions for my main character in RPG's, I usually ask what I would do in that situation and decide as such.  And as a hetero male, I think like a hetero male, so I pretty much always play hetero males.

 

I have the same issues with playing good or bad characters (or in this case, paragon/renegade).  I've tried playing bad characters before and it never works.  I always end up gravitating toward good decisions because I feel bad about being evil.  Just doesn't work for me.

[Gambit458]

Its not hard to know what she was going for. She wanted to make femshep more emotional. Maybe even put femshep on the map with her performances. I mean its pretty obvious in several interviews where she blatantly tries to push femshep and claims she asks developers why "this character can't be female."

 

I'm actually playing through ME3 as femshep right now after a few months. A lot of her deliveries are... not as good as I remember. Why does she do this annoying whispery crap to convey emotion in sentences that don't require it? When I find a reason to find her deliveries annoying, she then turns around and does an amazing delivery, and the goes back to whispering. Its really inconsistent.

 

I haven't played KOTOR so I can't comment on her voice acting there. I've seen her in many games before naturally, but this is the one series where I have heard her a lot. I like some of her work and then dislike others.

She has a habit of playing all the snooty characters

 

[aoibhealfae]

Hale's gender had nothing to do with the fact that she hammed it up a bit.

 

Which is why I prefer to compare his performance with Brian Bloom and Bertie Carvel in SWTOR who both play essentially the same character as Shepard. Bertie Carvel is amazing as British Shepard and Brian Bloom is amazing as both Paragon and Renegade military guy and his rough smoky voice is sexy, he oozes charm and intensity. With SWTOR, I could really see what BroShep could have become if he were to be helmed by an experienced voice actor. For starters, people would say they enjoy to play and love the character as either gender. Obviously, this isn't the case here, was it?

 

Its fine if people have their own preferences but was it necessary to launch a gender war about this. I love Shepard but I really dislike Meer's performance, not because he have a penis.

 

Not sure why anyone would stereotype Jennifer Hale being snotty. She play massive amount of different characters that even I have trouble registering that she is still the current voice for Disney's Cinderella. Disney and Cartoon Network channel are confusing weird places where Commander Shepard became totally unrecognizable. This is an example;

and another

Same person. Her career wasn't made or build by Mass Effect, she's already a professional in her field known for her versatility and experience. And she doesn't constantly milk herself being Commander Shepard all the time and who does this often? mhmm...?

[Dani86]

Incorrect. There may not be a "right or wrong" answer however there can be evidence to show which has the stronger case. Male characters have always been more interesting than female. Guys like Batman, Geralt, Dante, Ezio, and such were always more interesting than ones like Samus, Kerrigan, Bayonetta, and so on

 

Incorrect! See I can do it too. Do you actually read what you write before you post it?! "Interesting" is such a subjective term that it should be obvious to any intelligent person that what is and isn't interesting can only be an opinion. 

[ADelusiveMan]

Femshep, because Jennifer Hale's voice acting is awesome and I like strong, female main characters.  I will admit she doesn't deliver the heroic speeches as well as Meer does, but she's better on all the other lines.

[Undead Han]

 

Not that I don't think women should be soldiers or that they couldn't make good soldiers, but they would probably look more like that chick from Aliens than someone from a Victoria Secret catalog...

 

 

 

I've seen that posted many times over the years, and it is an argument I don't quite understand. Not all male soldiers or Marines are muscular behemoths either, so why would female infantrymen need to look like professional weight lifters? 

 

While military personnel do need to be physically fit, the requirements of the job are more endurance-based than strength-based. If you wanted to compare it to athletics, it would have more in common with marathon running or swimming than power-lifters. The most physically grueling activity anyone in the military does is a hump (or yomp, for those on the other side of the pond). A hump or yomp is a forced march (15, 20, 30 miles, ect) with full gear. It is not dissimilar to activities that some hikers or mountain climbers get up to, and they generally speaking aren't hulking behemoths either. Its also an activity that women participate in.

 

While some basic level of physical fitness is required for a hump or yomp, as someone who has done it...it's really more about being able to withstand long periods of misery and physical discomfort than physical strength. The biggest issues are putting up with the heavy pack digging into your shoulders, aching joints, and the blisters on your feet. You certainly don't need to have a professional weight lifter's physique. 

 

There have also been plenty of female soldiers or Marines, who look nothing like the woman from Aliens. 

 

Soviet snipers from the Second World War:

 

 

US Marine Drill Instructors:

 

 

Kurdish women fighting ISIS:

 

 

Ect., Ect.

[themikefest]

Yep.

 

A female can look totally different in uniform from seeing them in regular clothes especially if they have long hair.

 

The military is all about endurance. When I was in, most of my workouts were related to building up my endurance. Yeah I did build up my strength as well, but I was focused on my endurance.

[Undead Han]

It is worth pointing out also that historically some male soldiers have also been quite small. The Japanese soldier during the Second World War probably averaged out somewhere in the neighborhood of 5'4 or 5'5 (163 cm - 165 cm) and 140 lbs (64 kg). 

 

Gurkhas serving with the British Army also tended to be rather short and slight of build. 

 

Both were tough as nails.

 

The idea that to be a good soldier or marine you've got to be over 6 feet tall and be built like an American football or rugby player, whether male or female, is pure Hollywood nonsense. 

[Dani86]

Yep.

 

A female can look totally different in uniform from seeing them in regular clothes especially if they have long hair.

 

The military is all about endurance. When I was in, most of my workouts were related to building up my endurance. Yeah I did build up my strength as well, but I was focused on my endurance.

 

I would say that the most important thing for a soldier is the ability to think quickly on one's feet, not panic and be able to function under extreme stress. As an aside, congratulations mikefest. Your team is so going to win the Superbowl on Sunday! 

[themikefest]

I would say that the most important thing for a soldier is the ability to think quickly on one's feet, not panic and be able to function under extreme stress.

It is. That comes from training and to learn to expect the unexpected. Always be aware of your surroundings.
 

As an aside, congratulations mikefest. Your team is so going to win the Superbowl on Sunday!

Thanks. And yes they will. At the moment I have them winning 37-9

[abaris]

As a hetero male myself, the idea of directing my character to actively seek out and obtain penis and having to decide which penis my character would like best just doesn't compute. 

 

 

 

 

I'm a hetero male myself, but in roleplaying games I usually play what I ain't in real life. I love to play female characters because I find them more interesting and more intriguing than playing the usual cliché Bro. There's always the question of what would my character do in a given situation, as opposed to automatically ride with my own inclination when playing a male.

 

As for seeking out penis, it's not me doing it, it's my character. And the chances to do so are scarce as it is. There's only the Kaidan, Thane and Garrus option.

[Gambit458]

Incorrect! See I can do it too. Do you actually read what you write before you post it?! "Interesting" is such a subjective term that it should be obvious to any intelligent person that what is and isn't interesting can only be an opinion. 

Hurr durr see I can do it too. No it is not subjective as I based my opinions with numbers, unlike you. Obviously there is something more "interesting" about these characters if they sell better than their female counterparts.  "Any intelligent person"..Well I guess that's obviously not you. 

[fhs33721]

Hurr durr see I can do it too. No it is not subjective as I based my opinions with numbers, unlike you. Obviously there is something more "interesting" about these characters if they sell better than their female counterparts.  "Any intelligent person"..Well I guess that's obviously not you. 

Your so called "numbers" are absolutely arbitrary though. You are currently arguing that people who personally prefer a female Shepard over male Shepard are objectively wrong to do so because Batman is more interesting (interesting is defined by you as "sells more which is a problem in itslef already) than any female superhero. Which quite frankly is one of the most hilarious arguments I've ever heard.

Also I can as well point out absolutely random "numbers" to argue for whatever I want. Behold:

 

"Statistically there have been more video games with a male protagonist that turned out to be a complete and utter flop than video games with a female protagonist that turned out to be a complete and utter flop. Therefore we can all objectively agree that male protagonists are inherently less interesting than female Protagonists"

 

The above just as much backed by numbers as your claims and just as much proves absolutely nothing at all.

[abaris]

Your so called "numbers" are absolutely arbitrary though. You are currently arguing that people who personally prefer a female Shepard over male Shepard are objectively wrong to do so because Batman is more interesting (interesting is defined by you as "sells more which is a problem in itslef already) than any female superhero. Which quite frankly is one of the most hilarious arguments I've ever heard.

Also I can as well point out absolutely random "numbers" to argue for whatever I want. Behold:

 

That also would be because most shooters feature fixed male protagonists. RPGs on the other hand mostly offer the player a choice of what to be. The witcher series being the only contemporary exemption I'm aware of. Going out on a limb here, but I guess, most people arguing for Bro being the favorite option, also consider ME to be a shooter game and don't care as much about the roleplaying aspects as other players do.

 

I realize that the ME series is kind of hybrid between shooter and RPG. But it still offers enough choices to make it interesting for RPG fans. Which it wouldn't be for me if it was designed as a shooter or featuring a fixed protagonist.

[Frybread76]

I prefer a MaleShep because I prefer Meer's voice acting over Hale's.  I also relate better to MaleShep.

 

Interesting question, though.  Don't know why someone would care what "Shepard" others prefer.