Questa discussione ha avuto 50 risposte

[Matth85]

I say neither is better. An assassin can out DPS both.

Cole?

No. Cole is retarded. Well -- the AI is.

[draken-heart]

Cole?
No. Cole is retarded. Well -- the AI is.

Was talking general/DPS wise. Or, do you al not know about MoD+HB crit combo?

[Matth85]

Was talking general/DPS wise. Or, do you al not know about MoD+HB crit combo?

This thread is not a question of "Which specialization is better?". 

This is "Sera or Varric". Companions. Partymembers. AI. 

 

Obviously Assassin inquisitor beats out Varric or Sera.

[Sriep]

Cole>Sera>Varric.

 

Dagger drops bettter than bow drops.

Best bow better than Bianco.

MoD can add massivly to Cole's dps.

 

this asumes the companion is operated by player.

 

If the AI is operating the companion

Sera>Varric>>Cole.

As Cole will quickly die, and Sera's bow is still better than Bianco.

Edit. AI operater: If Cole is outfitted with a bow, difficult to choose between Cole and Sera. Cole if the AI gets lucky placing MoDs, otherwise Sera. Both have better bows than Bianco naturally.

[Duelist]

So long as you can keep a straight face at the sight of a backflipping, Varric can come a lot closer to Sera in DPS than one might think.

Sera is a heavy hitter, no question, but Varric is no slouch and if upgraded right, he and Bianca can mess fools up.

[Matth85]

So long as you can keep a straight face at the sight of a backflipping, Varric can come a lot closer to Sera in DPS than one might think.

Sera is a heavy hitter, no question, but Varric is no slouch and if upgraded right, he and Bianca can mess fools up.

On a optimized crit team, an artificer Varric beats Sera in every way. Only when you start to add in multiple masterwork fade touched effects, will Varric lose out. But at that point you are cheesing the game.

 

And to the guy above you again:

 

this asumes the companion is operated by playe

 

If I can play Varric, I will out dps Sera. 

But why would you play either? Go play your inquisitor and let these guys do their own. Archers manage fine! 

Sera = Varric > Cole.

 

Cole is used for mark of Death. Outside of that he isn't worth much. At which an assassin inquisitor is miles better. The same could be said for Sera, though it's just too amusing having double Static Cage + her shoot a million times, and also refreshing the Artificers CDs constantly. Full Draw spam!

[ICSM]

Using your specific party, Sera will outdps varric most of the time. It doesn't hurt that the AI does a pretty good job managing her. However, if you have a party with a steady source of criticals, Varric wil outdps sera by a pretty far margin, despite being restricted to Bianca, because Opportunity Knocks mean he will be spamming Longshots/Full Drawn 24/07. Also, Hail of Arrows is broken good, and the best boss killer in the game.

That said, I'll always pick Varric over Sera, stread criticals source or not, because every time sera speaks, I want to punch something in the face.

On another note:

PSA: varric can equip daggers.

[Sriep]

Go play your inquisitor and let these guys do their own. Archers manage fine! 

 

Because I am playing a tank who plays itself. This is deliberate as I want to experiment with all the play styles without having zillions of palythough. For example if I want to try out a Rift mage I just play Solas for a while. Seems the natural thing to do to me.

 

 

Only when you start to add in multiple masterwork fade touched effects, will Varric lose out. But at that point you are cheesing the game.

 

Cheesing the game is the whole point of this sort of problem, otherwise you can just do whatever.

[Matth85]

Because I am playing a tank who plays itself. This is deliberate as I want to experiment with all the play styles without having zillions of palythough. For example if I want to try out a Rift mage I just play Solas for a while. Seems the natural thing to do to me.

 

Good for you! I am also not adressing your question in this thread. The OP asks between Varric and Sera. No Cole. The OP plays a Mage, which tells me hes want the AI to play. DW rogue on AI is not functional. 

 

Cheesing the game is the whole point of this sort of problem, otherwise you can just do whatever.

 

I don't think you and me are on the same thread ...

[Duelist]

On a optimized crit team, an artificer Varric beats Sera in every way. Only when you start to add in multiple masterwork fade touched effects, will Varric lose out. But at that point you are cheesing the game.

I personally prefer using them together.

In unison with Sera doing her machine gun thing and Varric spamming archery talents, it feels like cheating.
Were I not a rogue, I might have a problem with this.

Back on point though, Varric (and the Artificer spec in general) might well be the most underrated party member in the game.

[Matth85]

I personally prefer using them together.

In unison with Sera doing her machine gun thing and Varric spamming archery talents, it feels like cheating.
Were I not a rogue, I might have a problem with this.

Back on point though, Varric (and the Artificer spec in general) might well be the most underrated party member in the game.

That is, indeed, the optimal setup. Artificer + Sera is one of the better combos in the game. Once you are at 70%-100% crit with Sera, you can set her to only auto attack. During FoL.. well.. yeah. CD won't be a problem any more And with some crit on the artificer, stamina won't be either (Leaping Shot. 12 crits. 120 stamina. Woohoo!)

 

There is something amusing about being an Artificer Inquisitor and doing 11k Full Drawn every 2-3 second (about the time it takes to shoot it). I can even double that thanks to the full draw bug, if I feel like cheesing. 

[Penumbract]

also, tempest archer can never out perform hail of arrow.

 

Hmm, it depends : https://www.youtube....h?v=M_YgRec443E

 

But.. the chest here.. how can you not bring the chest hair!?

 

If I feel the urge I caress my own 

[AzureAardvark]

In unison with Sera doing her machine gun thing and Varric spamming archery talents, it feels like cheating.
Were I not a rogue, I might have a problem with this.

 

As an aside, I seriously think the devs had just watched "Hawk the Slayer" the night before they came up with Varric ... and probably Sera.  Just fits too well.

[actionhero112]

Sera. Between Thousand Cuts and Lightning Flask, there is really no reason not to choose her. It's not like Varric does bad Dps, but it's not quite that level yet. 

[Matth85]

Sera. Between Thousand Cuts and Lightning Flask, there is really no reason not to choose her. It's not like Varric does bad Dps, but it's not quite that level yet. 

Nooot quite.

Sure, the focus ability out dps about anythihing in the game. Look past it, and Sera is mediocre at best. A optimal team with Varric is better in every way except masterwork stacking. Which you can do if you absolutely want to win: Get some Hidden Blade ones (5 and 4) and use FoL. Broken game is broken. 

[Cameron9428]

Nooot quite.

Sure, the focus ability out dps about anythihing in the game. Look past it, and Sera is mediocre at best. A optimal team with Varric is better in every way except masterwork stacking. Which you can do if you absolutely want to win: Get some Hidden Blade ones (5 and 4) and use FoL. Broken game is broken. 

 

What is FoL?

[Calimwulf]

I say neither is better. An assassin can out DPS both.

Agree with this.

[Matth85]

What is FoL?

Flask of Lightning.

[Cameron9428]

Flask of Lightning.

Ah, thanks=)

[actionhero112]

Nooot quite.

Sure, the focus ability out dps about anythihing in the game. Look past it, and Sera is mediocre at best. A optimal team with Varric is better in every way except masterwork stacking. Which you can do if you absolutely want to win: Get some Hidden Blade ones (5 and 4) and use FoL. Broken game is broken. 

 

Why would I look past the focus ability? It's part of the kit. Hell, without it I'd probably switch her out for Varric for the reasons your thinking about if thousand cuts mysteriously vanished. 

 

As far as mobbing goes I don't really care thaaaat much. Late game mobs are just punching bags, plus different qualities I appreciate come into play, such as the ability to freeze, paralyze, sleep etc. 

 I think you should replace one hidden with the horn of valor for 12 seconds or the 20% damage bonus if not being hit for 5 seconds. Probably more optimal. I think the damage bonus if not hit is better personally, plus you can stack it with normal horn of valor. Just you know... don't get hit. 

[Matth85]

Why would I look past the focus ability?

 

Because focus abilities are unnecessary. If you require it to win a fight, you have done something wrong.

 

I think they should rename "Tempest" to "Thousand cuts" -- as its the single most OP ability in the game, and it's the only reason a tempest is compareable to anything.

 

Besides, you don't got focus all the time. So might as well look past it. /shrug

[draken-heart]

@Matth85: The thing is, you cannot compare the two, as they are better at different things. Varric is terrible for burst DPS, but is great with a high-crit team, while Sera has (had maybe?) great burst with the strange synergy between Flask of Fire and thousand cuts. A guy on youtube named KineticGTR has done a pretty good build for tempest archer that does utilize that synergy.

 

Just like with specializations (KE is a great spec for a more "support"-based build, Necro works great with a Damage over time/slow boss killer build, et cetera), characters are/can be built differently and can't be necessarily compared that easily.

[EngineerEd]

If you are okay with pausing, activating FoL on Sera, going back to your inquisitor, and unpausing, then Sera. She gets 5 (or even 8) seconds of firing 100x faster than normal. Oh, and make sure to use all of her stamina beforehand so she doesn't waste her FoL time using abilities.

 

You can compound this ridiculousness by using something like upgraded static cage, and throw in assassin mark of death for kicks and giggles, then masterwork %chance to use ______ damaging ability (as previously mentioned, hidden blades is probably the best one). 

 

I would consider this an "exploit" or at the least "cheese", so in future playthroughs I'll either not use Sera, or not spec Flask of Lightning. In my honest opinion Bioware should fix this so that the 5/8 seconds of flask of lightning duration is reduced by 60/99% of time if the player is not controlling the character using flask of lightning. Otherwise why not just cheese the whole game and make DW Tempest Rogue, take Cole as a companion, stealth and position rogue behind boss, MoD with Cole, pause, FoL your inquisitor, switch back to anybody other the inquisitor, unpause, gg.

 

 

________

Rant about FoL interaction aside. If you ignore FoL then Varric easily beats Sera in DPS. Flask of Fire kinda blows, especially on archer rogue, because the most damaging ability (full draw) has like, a 3 second animation time, and the second most damaging ability (long shot) has like, a 1.5 second animation time. Also, the AI is too dumb to just spam longshot and will probably attempt to use full draw or explosive shot or leaping shot during precious flask of fire time.

 

With Varric, just make sure to get the passives with 10 stamina on crit, 50 stamina on kill (in dual daggers tree) and opportunity knocks, and he can spam abilities all day.

 

Oh, and don't forget to upgrade Bianca.

[Matth85]

@Matth85: The thing is, you cannot compare the two, as they are better at different things. Varric is terrible for burst DPS, but is great with a high-crit team, while Sera has (had maybe?) great burst with the strange synergy between Flask of Fire and thousand cuts. A guy on youtube named KineticGTR has done a pretty good build for tempest archer that does utilize that synergy.

 

First off: Tempest got no weird synergy -- Thousand Cut is just broken. Every hit count as a normal hit, which means it proc the passive adding increased damage each hit, and also each hit procs masterwork as an auto attack would. There are no mechanic to prevent it in the ability.

Oh, and the fact you can use multiple Thousand Cuts with Flask of Fire is a bug.

 

Artificer is build on sustain -- yes. However, damage is damage. The reason you compare them is because specialization merely adds on top of the original class. A tempest build on control and survival. It gets a flask to freeze and live, a flask to slow down or speed up attacks and a flask to use abilities for free. 

No matter how you turn it around - the tempest isn't better. Especially not on an AI who can't utilize it. Though that is another discussion altogether!

[zeypher]

K artificer's tricks or trade passive work on all damage or only status effect damage like burning etc?