209 réponses à ce sujet

[Vandicus]

I'm talking about response OF NPCs. Not response to NPCs.

 

If we have the budget for 21 voiced words and we spend 12 of those on 4 PC voice actors saying "I should go." This leaves the NPC being talked to with 9 words. And the PC only even had one choice to present.

 

If we have the budget for 21 voiced words and we spend none of those on voice acting the PC, using only text, this leaves the NPC with the full 21 words to craft a response from. They can do 7 words for each response, each being unique. Maybe one response can start with an angry 2 words and go into 5 words shared with the second neutral response. And the third response gets a happy 9 all to itself.

 

 

Let's take your example.

Inquisitor: Leave, now! (2 words, 4 voice actors = 8 words)

Inquisitor: Let's work something out. (16 words)

Inquisitor: Would you leave the boy alone? (24 words)

 

Total of 48 words.

 

With unvoiced PC, that's 48 words the demon could have used.

 

Voiced obviously costs more than no voice, but zots aren't equally trasnferrable, and voiced brings in more money, which  presumably off-sets the cost benefits of non-voiced.

 

Also, why are we using a demon makes you an offer example? They had that in DA2 with Feynriel. Kind of a weak example to claim they wouldn't do that kind of thing anymore. Also, unlike Connor, Feynriel has follow up in the same game.

 

*EDIT

 

Basically

 

Unvoiced=smaller budget(because less revenue), lower cost

Voiced= larger budget(because more revenue), higher costs

[Milan92]

I hope Bioware never goes back to the silent protagonists.

[I SOLD MY SOUL TO BIOWARE]

I do think silent protagonists give a bit more freedom in the role playing department, but I didn't really mind the voice this time around.

[Zoralink]

I'm talking about response OF NPCs. Not response to NPCs.

 

If we have the budget for 21 voiced words and we spend 12 of those on 4 PC voice actors saying "I should go." This leaves the NPC being talked to with 9 words. And the PC only even had one choice to present.

 

If we have the budget for 21 voiced words and we spend none of those on voice acting the PC, using only text, this leaves the NPC with the full 21 words to craft a response from. They can do 7 words for each response, each being unique. Maybe one response can start with an angry 2 words and go into 5 words shared with the second neutral response. And the third response gets a happy 9 all to itself.

 

 

Let's take your example.

Inquisitor: Leave, now! (2 words, 4 voice actors = 8 words)

Inquisitor: Let's work something out. (16 words)

Inquisitor: Would you leave the boy alone? (24 words)

 

Total of 48 words.

 

With unvoiced PC, that's 48 words the demon could have used.

 

That's.... not.... how it works.

[Giantdeathrobot]

I had zero problems immersing myself into that game, really. The same with Fallout 3 and New Vegas.

 

Of those three games, New Vegas is the only one that immersed me at all, and that has nothing to do with the silent protagonist. It's because Bethesda are **** writers and Obsidian are great writers.

 

It also helps that New Vegas was in first person, so you could more easily swallow that they alone could communicate by not saying anything, and you never saw their face. I replayed Origins recently, and it was just jarring to have the PC staring blankly while everyone else was moving around and speaking. I much more liked my Inquisitor who actually seemed to be present rather than just an imaginary ass-kicking friend to everyone involved.

 

Hell, it's not like I lost anything. The Inquisitor has in my experience as much, if not more opportunities to be fleshed out as a character as my Warden, and I replayed Origins almost immediately before diving into Inquisition so my memory is fresh as can be. You get asked a ''how do you feel about X?" question by just about every single major NPC at least once in Inquisition, in Origins this is almost non-existent. You also get to justify your bigger choices often, which Origins did not do and you had to resort to head-canon.

 

As for auto-dialog, it wasn't anywhere near an issue to me. It was in Mass Effect 3 with that ''we fight or we die'' nonsense, but in Inquisition every instance of auto-dialog I found was a logical continuation of a previous response. The single exception is you character speaking after you chose to remain silent in the intro. That's it. 

 

What's important to me is good writing and role-playing. This is achievable with both voiced and silent protagonists, if the devs play their cards right.

[pdusen]

I quit the game 90 seconds in. I went with the stay silent option, my inner child squealing with glee. I would finally be able to play the mute Qunari i had always envisioned. She was abused as a child and had run away from home. Raised by bandits she had had a smart mouth, so they cut out her tongue.

I was surprised to hear her speak mere moments after choosing stay silent, and i still havent worked out a plausible reason how she healed. Perhaps the divine did it when she booted her out of the breech.

Anyway ive been so distraught i havent played further.

 

A worse reason for quitting a game, I have never heard.

[We'll bang okay]

he wasn't that mute remember. Can I get you a ladder, so you can get off my back  

[Xiolyrr Zoharei]

Ok so I know this poor horse has been dead a long time now. But I am still going to beat on it.

The voiced MC just steals away SO much roleplaying. The main problem I see is in the interpretation of the lines. You can pick something and get your companions response. If there is no voice you can imagine your MC was being funny and the companions response would work for that. But with the voiced protaganist you say it all mean or something. Just takes our control of how your character should be away from you.

So yes while all the voice acting for te Inquisitor was very well done. I still hate it and hate that Bioware feels there is no market for it anymore even though the last game they did with a silent protaganist sold better then all the ones with voiced...

 

I disagree. Playing RPG's with a mute protagonist is like watching an actor rehearse lines for a play while they are standing in front of a mirror.

 

What would really be cool, is if you could record your voice in these next gen consoles or PC mic, and the protagonist uses your own voice to talk in game. Perhaps next, next gen, this will become a reality.

[Sardoni]

If you like silent protagonists do I have a game of the year to show you:

 

 

Yes that was actual game play footage.  Unbelievable right?

[KaiserShep]

XD

[Nyaore]

I will say, as the indie scene becomes more and more prominent - the old school text RPG's with silent protagonists will most likely be making a come back. At this point, however, I would not hope for a company like Bioware or Bethesda to ever walk upon those grounds again unless it's for a spin-off title that doesn't cost over much.

[Kimarous]

The thing about the Dragon Age series is that it doesn't lend itself well to non-voiced dialogue. Everyone is voiced, even the minor characters, and conversations have entire animations to go along with the dialogue being spoken. That's an abundance of work for even the smallest interactions. Now, if this were a first-person title, the lack of character voice matters a lot less because it's 1) supposed to be specifically YOU saying the dialogue, and 2) you don't see your own mouth moving. Even better, you could go for those big top-down worlds like the older Baldur's Gate or Fallout titles where animations are limited to mostly text, which allows for that text to be pretty much anything. Only the REALLY important stuff ever gets voiced. Consequently, you can add as many options as you want, not only with dialogue, but also interactions. Just saying, in a Dragon Age game, any interaction with a locked chest is either "I can't do anything about it" or "lockpick it open." Conversely, in a game where interactions are mostly text-based, you could hypothetically have all these options:

1. Leave it alone.
2. (Perception) Check for traps.
3. Unlock chest...
   1. With key.
   2. With lockpick.
   3. With dagger.
   4. With nail file.
   5. With broken splinters.
4. Use magic.
   1. Use fire spell.
      1. Against the lock.
      2. Against the chest.
   2. Use ice spell.
      1. Against the lock.
      2. Against the chest.
5. Break open...
   1. The lock.
      1. With sword.
      2. With axe.
      3. With hammer.
   2. The lid.
      1. With sword.
      2. With axe.
      3. With hammer.
6. Remove lock.
   1. Pry it off.
   2. Remove nails.

[Morty Smith]

All a good protagonist needs is a big HYAAT!

 

[LinksOcarina]

I will say, as the indie scene becomes more and more prominent - the old school text RPG's with silent protagonists will most likely be making a come back. At this point, however, I would not hope for a company like Bioware or Bethesda to ever walk upon those grounds again unless it's for a spin-off title that doesn't cost over much.

 

See, that seems like a good idea, but I just played both the newly released Shadowrun Returns and Wasteland 2. Both had silent protagonists of course in different forms and what not, and it was...not very good.

 

The writing quality in both games was rather weak compared to say, the lofty heights of Planescape Torment or Baldur's Gate 2. They were trying, but they didn't really captivate me. I also find the lack of voices kinda...missing the charm in the end. The music usually is what keeps you going in those cases, I found the music and sound effects to be rather bland in this case.

 

We also got other issues, mostly problems with the system and mechanics mostly for me. But the lack of tons of voices didn't help.

 

I think we are honestly at a point where the precedent of voiced protagonists is almost expected for most games. I think there are few exceptions in the gaming world now where you can get away with that. Zelda for one comes to mind as a major exception to the rule there. 

[Zoralink]

 

The thing about the Dragon Age series is that it doesn't lend itself well to non-voiced dialogue. Everyone is voiced, even the minor characters, and conversations have entire animations to go along with the dialogue being spoken. That's an abundance of work for even the smallest interactions. Now, if this were a first-person title, the lack of character voice matters a lot less because it's 1) supposed to be specifically YOU saying the dialogue, and 2) you don't see your own mouth moving. Even better, you could go for those big top-down worlds like the older Baldur's Gate or Fallout titles where animations are limited to mostly text, which allows for that text to be pretty much anything. Only the REALLY important stuff ever gets voiced. Consequently, you can add as many options as you want, not only with dialogue, but also interactions. Just saying, in a Dragon Age game, any interaction with a locked chest is either "I can't do anything about it" or "lockpick it open." Conversely, in a game where interactions are mostly text-based, you could hypothetically have all these options:

1. Leave it alone.
2. (Perception) Check for traps.
3. Unlock chest...
   1. With key.
   2. With lockpick.
   3. With dagger.
   4. With nail file.
   5. With broken splinters.
4. Use magic.
   1. Use fire spell.
      1. Against the lock.
      2. Against the chest.
   2. Use ice spell.
      1. Against the lock.
      2. Against the chest.
5. Break open...
   1. The lock.
      1. With sword.
      2. With axe.
      3. With hammer.
   2. The lid.
      1. With sword.
      2. With axe.
      3. With hammer.
6. Remove lock.
   1. Pry it off.
   2. Remove nails.

 

 

And every single one of those interactions would boil down to:

 

The chest opens.

The chest is still locked.

You blew the chest up like an idiot.

 

More options is, surprisingly, not always better. I'll take being able to lockpick a chest and actually seeing it get picked open over seeing a line of text going "You hit the chest with a fireball. The chest bursts into flame."

[Nefla]

Considering consoles are starting to automatically include mics I think there is an option that can help everyone.

Voice command your own dialogue choices. Everyone wins.

Well that would be awkward for me...I can see it now, my hulking male Qunari being voiced by a woman.

[Nyaore]

See, that seems like a good idea, but I just played both the newly released Shadowrun Returns and Wasteland 2. Both had silent protagonists of course in different forms and what not, and it was...not very good.

 

The writing quality in both games was rather weak compared to say, the lofty heights of Planescape Torment or Baldur's Gate 2. They were trying, but they didn't really captivate me. I also find the lack of voices kinda...missing the charm in the end. The music usually is what keeps you going in those cases, I found the music and sound effects to be rather bland in this case.

 

We also got other issues, mostly problems with the system and mechanics mostly for me. But the lack of tons of voices didn't help.

 

I think we are honestly at a point where the precedent of voiced protagonists is almost expected for most games. I think there are few exceptions in the gaming world now where you can get away with that. Zelda for one comes to mind as a major exception to the rule there. 

Very fair point, and I wish I could give you a like for it but I'm at my quota once more. Frankly, I really hope that the indie scene will be able to step up and write the quality of stories we used to expect for those sorts of games - but in that same breath I almost feel as if they either cannot hire any competent writers or they have their own executives who water down the story beyond repair much like what happens with any AAA title. Perhaps it's just wishful thinking on my part, and a longing for those old stories whenever my nostalgia senses are tingling most, but I really do wish for this... However, you are right in that we have a long -  long  - way to go before they can even put a dent in those efforts.

 

I agree we're definitely at that point with voices, as well. Which is why I can't see Bethesda or Bioware ever going back to a silent protagonist without making it a part of some spin off game, perhaps even something like the Last Court only larger in scope. It's just not something you see anymore, particularly with games trying to breech into the main stream - and frankly that's both a good and bad thing. Good because for me, games like Origins were jarring because of the focus on a silent protagonist, but bad because there are some games that would instead might have benefited from one. Nintendo is really the only company that can get away with it 100% of the time, but that's because everyone has come to expect them to rehash their titles over and over again.

[Nefla]

Very fair point, and I wish I could give you a like for it but I'm at my quota once more. Frankly, I really hope that the indie scene will be able to step up and write the quality of stories we used to expect for those sorts of games - but in that same breath I almost feel as if they either cannot hire any competent writers or they have their own executives who water down the story beyond repair much like what happens with any AAA title. Perhaps it's just wishful thinking on my part, and a longing for those old stories whenever my nostalgia senses are tingling most, but I really do wish for this... However, you are right in that we have a long -  long  - way to go before they can even put a dent in those efforts.

 

I agree we're definitely at that point with voices, as well. Which is why I can't see Bethesda or Bioware ever going back to a silent protagonist without making it a part of some spin off game, perhaps even something like the Last Court only larger in scope. It's just not something you see anymore, particularly with games trying to breech into the main stream - and frankly that's both a good and bad thing. Good because for me, games like Origins were jarring because of the focus on a silent protagonist, but bad because there are some games that would instead might have benefited from one. Nintendo is really the only company that can get away with it 100% of the time, but that's because everyone has come to expect them to rehash their titles over and over again.

Bethesda has a game with a voiced protagonist?

[Nyaore]

Bethesda has a game with a voiced protagonist?

Their lesser known titles sometimes did. Mind, those games they were usually the publisher for and not the developer.

[Kimarous]

And every single one of those interactions would boil down to:

 

The chest opens.

The chest is still locked.

You blew the chest up like an idiot.

 

More options is, surprisingly, not always better. I'll take being able to lockpick a chest and actually seeing it get picked open over seeing a line of text going "You hit the chest with a fireball. The chest bursts into flame."

 

True. Ultimately, "break open and damage the contents" and "unlock safely" tend to be standard fare in any RPG as is. Alas, "blow up the chest like an idiot" is sadly underrepresented.

[Chaos17]

I disagree. Playing RPG's with a mute protagonist is like watching an actor rehearse lines for a play while they are standing in front of a mirror.

 

What would really be cool, is if you could record your voice in these next gen consoles or PC mic, and the protagonist uses your own voice to talk in game. Perhaps next, next gen, this will become a reality.

I see that you're probably young because silent MC never was an issue for RPG back then and now too.

[Kimarous]

In any case, to make my extended post more succinct: "If you want quality animations and voices, one must accept limited options. If you go for [insert item here] text, you have more freedom for (potentially pointless) options at the cost of less immersion."

[Andraste_Reborn]

I see that you're probably young because silent MC never was an issue for RPG back then and now too.

 

I'm about to turn thirty-five and I prefer a voiced protagonist in games like the Dragon Age series where all other characters are voiced.

 

I guess that's pretty young by some standards, but I've been playing CRPGs since 1993.

[Kimarous]

Uh no thanks, with all of the available technology at the devs disposal in 2014 i'd rather we have talkative PCs capable of expressing emotions rather than mute lumps of clay. Leave the silent protagonists to The Legend of Zelda and The Elder Scrolls. 

 

 

I love how much of a misnomer "silent protagonist" is.