33 réponses à ce sujet

[J0nnara]

Please add more bars, playing a mage with specialization is a pain in the back side with only 8 spells.

[Farangbaa]

I only had 7 active skills on my mage when I beat the game, of which 2 were focus powers.

 

You don't get powerful by adding lots of active skills anyway, it's the passives that make you a beast (and give you stat boosts)

[J0nnara]

Everyone's play style is different. I am now playing on nightmare and need the spells from different trees and changing them out every fight to avoid doing 0 damage is a pain.

[Gel214th]

Please add more bars, playing a mage with specialization is a pain in the back side with only 8 spells.

 

You're supposed to choose the spells you want from those you have.It adds another layer of strategy.

 

There are several MMOs on the market now that don't have 3 bars and 40 skills to try to use. 

 

What I think is a bit sad is that we have to compare a Dragon Age game to an MMO  

[Julia Luna]

I only had 7 active skills on my mage when I beat the game, of which 2 were focus powers.

 

You don't get powerful by adding lots of active skills anyway, it's the passives that make you a beast (and give you stat boosts)

No one wants to be powerful, people just want to play the game the way they want. Distributing stats the way they want, having the skills they want, and stuff like that Bioware took away from us

[J0nnara]

You're supposed to choose the spells you want from those you have.It adds another layer of strategy.

 

There are several MMOs on the market now that don't have 3 bars and 40 skills to try to use. 

 

What I think is a bit sad is that we have to compare a Dragon Age game to an MMO

Your 1st sentance is the problem.

Having to change them out every time you run into different Demons that ingore a type of elemental damage at each rift is stupid. I can understand doing it for Dragon fights but in every rift you come across?

In nightmare i die every time if i have for example lightning spells when a rift pops out a pride Demon.

 

At lest thats 3 bars of what? 10 solts? that way better than this atm.

 

Its not our fault for comparing this to an MMO when Bioware made it play like one.

[Gel214th]

At lest thats 3 bars of what? 10 solts? that way better than this atm.

 

Its not our fault for comparing this to an MMO when Bioware made it play like one.

 

I'm not arguing that, it does play like an MMO. And yeah, not what we would expect from the Dragon Age series, I'm with you there.

However primarily because this plays like an Action RPG, the number of spells and skills you can use are limited. 

Remember, you are meant to play this controlling a single character with a console controller in your hand. The entire user interface and almost all the game decisions for gameplay were based on that core user input. 

[J0nnara]

Yeah Gel214th,

 

They need to patch that for PC or let people mod it. PC =/= Console and just porting that crap over wholesale doesn't work.

[Poisd2Strike]

Perhaps it would have been better to go with a radial map interface, like when you use potions, for character ability use in combat.  Two radial maps with 8 slots each would likely have sufficed.  The slots could have been assignable and you would still be able to map certain abilities to controller buttons (on consoles anyway) for quick use outside the tactical interface.  Something similar could have been done for PC players, although another bar (instead of radial menu) would probably be optimal.

[Lee T]

Remember, you are meant to play this controlling a single character with a console controller in your hand. The entire user interface and almost all the game decisions for gameplay were based on that core user input.

Remember that the previous two games and each ME games gave you acess to every skill through a radial menu that has now disapeared. The controller's "limitations" have nothing to do with that design choice.

[AlexMBrennan]

Having to change them out every time you run into different Demons that ingore a type of elemental damage at each rift is stupid. I can understand doing it for Dragon fights but in every rift you come across?

So, I guess you want Bioware to go back to their roots and make you memorize the five spells you are going to use ahead of the time? Oh wait... Clearly, Baldur's Gate was ruined by Bioware focussing exclusively on the console market.

 

That's not to say you have to like it - both approaches can be made to work, and both are quite popular (e.g. WoW which requires you to have three auxiliary keyboards, and Diablo which only lets you use 5 abilities). However, arguing that this is a result of targeting consoles is silly. 

[Gel214th]

So, I guess you want Bioware to go back to their roots and make you memorize the five spells you are going to use ahead of the time? Oh wait... Clearly, Baldur's Gate was ruined by Bioware focussing exclusively on the console market.

 

Oh dear, are you referring to the Dungeons and Dragons rulebook on how Wizards learn spells?

 

That wasn't a Bioware mechanic, that was a pen and paper Dungeons and Dragons mechanic.

 

you....you have played DnD, or something similar haven't you?

[Pasquale1234]

Remember that the previous two games and each ME games gave you acess to every skill through a radial menu that has now disapeared. The controller's "limitations" have nothing to do with that design choice.

That's what I think every time I see someone blaming controllers for the limit of 8.

- however -

When you consider that MP would not support the radial menu (can't pause MP) - well I suspect that's the answer. The combination of controller + MP is likely the reason for this restriction.

[NWNMarc]

I don't buy the argument that you're supposed to choose abilities tactically. The AI-controlled party members get the whole complement of abilities to use in every battle. It's only the human-controlled character that's restricted to the eight. What, the game gets to play my guy with all his abilities, but I, the human player, don't? You can't possibly believe that this was as intended.

 

If all party members were limited to eight, then that's evidence of intentional (if poor) game design. As it is, it's just non-design, in my opinion.

[J0nnara]

So, I guess you want Bioware to go back to their roots and make you memorize the five spells you are going to use ahead of the time? Oh wait... Clearly, Baldur's Gate was ruined by Bioware focussing exclusively on the console market.

 

That's not to say you have to like it - both approaches can be made to work, and both are quite popular (e.g. WoW which requires you to have three auxiliary keyboards, and Diablo which only lets you use 5 abilities). However, arguing that this is a result of targeting consoles is silly. 

At lest you didn't run into mobs with resist a type of damage every 5 mins on Baldur's gate.

In Nightmare mode every rift has some higher Demon with resist. And the icing on the cake its all different every rift. 

[Lee T]

That's what I think every time I see someone blaming controllers for the limit of 8.- however -When you consider that MP would not support the radial menu (can't pause MP) - well I suspect that's the answer. The combination of controller + MP is likely the reason for this restriction.

I disagree, they could have radial menu without pause in MP. Nearly every MP games let you sift through menus and scoreboard with no pause. Why would that be an issue? Either it's a bad design decisions or they were not given the time to implement the correct one both rest on the shoulders of Bioware and EA, not console controllers.

[Pasquale1234]

I disagree, they could have radial menu without pause in MP. Nearly every MP games let you sift through menus and scoreboard with no pause. Why would that be an issue? Either it's a bad design decisions or they were not given the time to implement the correct one both rest on the shoulders of Bioware and EA, not console controllers.

 

The radial menu as implemented in DAO and DA2 covered up a huge chunk of real estate in the middle of the battleground.  I suppose they could make it accessible without pause for MP, but it would still take time to select the desired ability - especially since you needed to go through multiple levels to get to some of them.  Maybe they tried it and decided it would not deliver the type of experience they were hoping for.  Shrug.
 

[movieguyabw]

I've seen a lot of people say they feel this game plays like an MMO on the forums...  I got to say I don't get that impression at all - Origins felt a lot more like an MMO with its long ability bar and the reliance on buffs during battle.  Maybe I'm just not as familiar with MMOs as I should be to weigh in on this - only ever played Runescape, SWTOR, and watched some friends play WoW a few times.  Inquisition just doesn't come across like any of those to me, personally.  *shrug*

 

I disagree, they could have radial menu without pause in MP. Nearly every MP games let you sift through menus and scoreboard with no pause. Why would that be an issue? Either it's a bad design decisions or they were not given the time to implement the correct one both rest on the shoulders of Bioware and EA, not console controllers.

 

They've stated before that the reason for doing it this way was so to add another level of strategy to the game.  I didn't really see it as an issue where I had to pick abilities in between each fight - rather I had to decide which abilities I wanted to focus on for the entirety of the game.  Sticking to a particular type of build drastically reduces the amount of usable abilities you end up taking I've found.  In the post game, I only have 2 abilities that I've taken but I can't map.  Of those two, only one of the I actually want to use.

 

I did find I had more of an issue with this when I tried taking abilities from every tree - especially when it came to spec'ing mages, like Dorian.  I think they intended us to go for a specific build for each character.  Sort of like making one character a fire mage, while another may be an Ice/Spirit mage.  Warriors don't seem to wind up with too many abilities if you stick to either Vanguard/Battlemaster or 2handed/SnS.  Same can be said with rogues.  (Like I said - I've taken all of the abilities in Bow and Arrow, and almost done with the Assassin tree.  I also have the entire right side of the Stealth tree.  If it wasn't for the Veil ability you get, I'd have just enough slots for every ability I've taken)

 

 

I get that this might not be your preferred playstyle - it certainly isn't very forgiving to players who are unsure of the type of build they want from the start.  You kind of have to commit to whatever type of character you want to play as.  I imagine that's why they made it so easy to respec in this game...

[Kage]

Why would you say it plays like an MMO?

I have played several, and combat in this game is more similar to Zelda, than a MMO.

 

It is just an action RPG game, like so many others.

[Lee T]

They've stated before that the reason for doing it this way was so to add another level of strategy to the game.

Either it's a cope out to avoid the real reason (probably consquence of MP as others have postulated), or it's indeed a lazy attempt at adding strategy to a game.

You can add strategy by adding depth or by limiting options. I have far more respect for those who do the latter.

Furhtermore in RPG, a type of game which has a setting, it is customary to use rules to simulate aspects of this world's physics and population's culture. It creates a sense of realism and gives meaning to the rule by anchoring it in your world.

Limiting magic with a restricted pool of mana is a good exemple. It help explain how magic works, gives room for alchemy and magic potions, disease affecting mana recovery, etc.

You generally avoid purely abstract elements. Unless people on Thedas somehow swore to never use more than 8 skills during the same combat.

[Requiemslove]

This game is not an MMO. As an MMO veteran I can actually say and I feel with credibility, that having 100s of skills is not as much fun as it may seem to be. I will not say 8 is an ideal amount, nor will I say they MUST increase that. I will say you can run the risk of going too far the other way. So far in this game I have enjoyed the flow, and unless they add the possibility of using more than 8 skills ONLY via the tactical view...I would not be very happy to see them mess with the flow.

[movieguyabw]

Either it's a cope out to avoid the real reason (probably consquence of MP as others have postulated), or it's indeed a lazy attempt at adding strategy to a game.

You can add strategy by adding depth or by limiting options. I have far more respect for those who do the latter.

Furhtermore in RPG, a type of game which has a setting, it is customary to use rules to simulate aspects of this world's physics and population's culture. It creates a sense of realism and gives meaning to the rule by anchoring it in your world.

Limiting magic with a restricted pool of mana is a good exemple. It help explain how magic works, gives room for alchemy and magic potions, disease affecting mana recovery, etc.

You generally avoid purely abstract elements. Unless people on Thedas somehow swore to never use more than 8 skills during the same combat.

 

Heat of battle comes to mind as a reasoning, and I imagine was what they were going for.  I imagine character building plays a part in it as well.

 

My experience; a lot of the abilities you can take serve similar purposes.  Personally, I'm not sure you really need to have Stealth, Leapshot, Sleeping Powder, Caltrops, Evade, Cloak of Shadows, and Knockout Bomb all available to you at the same time.  Sure, a couple of them can come in handy for a rogue; but I don't think I'd ever have to worry about getting hit by anything ever if I had all of those at my disposable.  Alongside potential high-damage single-target attacks like Longshot, Hidden Blades, Full Draw, and Shadow Strike, I imagine endgame would be very much a cakewalk even on nightmare.

 

There also aren't that many abilities to begin with - abilities you activate make up only about 1/3 of a tree usually.  And each tree appears to have an offensive/defensive branch; I personally find unless you want to master a certain style, you don't really need to take both branches which severely limits the amount of abilities you get.  Then again, that's just the way I've been playing - your playstyle might be different.  If you don't have a set build or archetype in your head for your character, I can imagine you'll get to the 8 ability mark relatively quick.  (I know it would take approx. 11 levels for a rogue to get that many; if you did nothing but try taking abilities you can activate)

[Bladenite1481]

The game plays almost exactly like Guild Wars 2. Right down to 8 abilities and limited healing, Fade Step is a veritable copy of Ride the Lightning even. Though there is no tumble action or lock on in the game which IMO if they are going action..then do it all the way. Stop this half way crap, go DS or Drag Dogma style and call it a day. 

[King Dragonlord]

You know I still prefer mages to other classes but modern games are doing their damdest to suck the fun out of them. I came from DnD (2 and 3, before modern game design infected them too) and back then wizards were frikkin wizards.

Want to fly? Teleport? Create an illusion of an orc shaving his legs? Charm bar patrons into singing the Monty python spam song? Turn your enemy into stone? Scry on your enemy remotely? Detect magical auras? Curse your enemy (or even a party member you were irritated with) so the every third word from their mouth is a meow? Create the sound of a kender crawling under tables? Turn into a giant?

Yeah spells actually did all that stuff in older DnD games. They rewarded you for your creativity. And while video games could never quite match that flexibility, they used to try and as I look back on those games I'm surprised at how often they found ways to succeed. But they got lazy. Now it's all x damage of y elemental type to z area then wait 30 seconds. And the impact of those spells is on par with hitting someone with a stick. Oh wait, I'm sorry, that's unfair to the stick. Yeah, glad I spent years locked in a tower to harness this mighty power . . .

But maybe I'm being unfair. After all. A winter grasp spell will lock a target in place for 5 whole seconds, how wonderful and mysterious.

Of course the worst part of all is DnD itself wanted to get into mmos and so 4th ed featured this same sort of game design. So I might as well play video games because at least the computer takes care of rules management.

All this to say, it really chafes that not only are the powers relatively dull and unimaginative but now magic must suffer one more indignity and be locked into a measely 8 slots because magic has to be 'tactical'

And they have the gall to call it a feature and tell you to live with it.

**** you modern lazy unimaginative game designers. **** you.

[DragonAgent]

Bad UI on a direct console port, who would've thought, am rite?